DUBCC - Tha Connection > Outbound Connection
R. Kelly - You Saved My Life
Shallow:
Let me further explain, first I distinctly read the word "genius" with regards to R Kelly on a couple threads. Second I confused you with the Not For These Times guy, sorry. Third the seence of songwriters, the serious ones. Bob Dylan helped change the way artists write lyrics, the beatles perfected the music side, and since then every "artist" that creates music falss under that establishment some how. Not to confuse artists with entertainers, which I see as being different. Some peoples whole purpose for being in the music business ids to entertain and make money. For others it is to create music, with messages they want to release (not that they don't entertain or apprecite the money). I put R Kelly in the latter category, and see him as more than just an entertainer. The temptations, as much as I love them, are just a group of good singers with presision in their dance moves. They are not, in my opinion musical "artists" or creators.
And lastly, when you start a thread you're supposed to expect bad as well as good responses. What do you want, to say something and have everyone agree with you? I like R Kelly and "I" think he's good but not great. I have the right to say that, and you have the right to tell me I'm wrong. I only mentioned Springsteen because I am obviously a big fan, and wanted to promote him on the forum, much like you wanted to promote R Kelly. I'm sorry I used your thread, just let me know how I can make it up to Luke(no sarcasm intended), I'll do anything (non-sexual).
Don Breezio:
all im sayin is that you can say you disagree or whatever...but don't come in and start making wack ass comparisons...and one final thing i want to point out before i diss jome so he can lock this thread is that you obviously don't take music into context...you're talking about song writers and their lyrics having the same essence...well did you ever take into account that bob dylan's lyrics vs. r. kelly's lyrics are different? i'm gonna pull the race card out right now and it might piss someone off so if so im sorry...but the fact is black and white people relate to totally different lyrics...why do you think you rarely see a black guy in a rock band? its not very often...why do you think there arent very many white people in rap? because people want something they can relate to. personally i relate the best to punk music because well...im a little bitch. :D most of the other people on this board who listen to the westcoast side of things....i bet over half of them live somewhere in LA or near there. and most of the people who live somewhere around there and post about a lot of westcoast rap...don't post about springsteen why? because they can't relate to him as well...my point of this long ass post is that you need to take music into context...as i said before...you can't expect a beatles album from jay-z...unless danger mouse is on the boards.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Luke on April 28, 2004, 10:46:21 AM ---all im sayin is that you can say you disagree or whatever...but don't come in and start making wack ass comparisons...and one final thing i want to point out before i diss jome so he can lock this thread is that you obviously don't take music into context...you're talking about song writers and their lyrics having the same essence...well did you ever take into account that bob dylan's lyrics vs. r. kelly's lyrics are different? i'm gonna pull the race card out right now and it might piss someone off so if so im sorry...but the fact is black and white people relate to totally different lyrics...why do you think you rarely see a black guy in a rock band? its not very often...why do you think there arent very many white people in rap? because people want something they can relate to. personally i relate the best to punk music because well...im a little bitch. :D most of the other people on this board who listen to the westcoast side of things....i bet over half of them live somewhere in LA or near there. and most of the people who live somewhere around there and post about a lot of westcoast rap...don't post about springsteen why? because they can't relate to him as well...my point of this long ass post is that you need to take music into context...as i said before...you can't expect a beatles album from jay-z...unless danger mouse is on the boards.
--- End quote ---
1) Just because you don't feel two artists aren't comparable does not give you the right to say that it cannot be posted. Hell one guy once said Dre was better at creating music than Beethoven. Hmmm one guy can write and play music even though he can't hear it , and the other does nothing but have musicians replay old songs. The point is I think it is completely insane to compare Dre and Beethoven in music, it's like comparing Jordan and Gretzky in hockey, but I would never tell that person he shouldn't post his thoughts.
2) Bob Dylan's lyric "are" different, mainly better. More complex, at times more poetical, more meaningful, more consistant, and more revolutionary. Don't give me that race bull shit. What does R. Kelly speak of that makes him so "black", white people don't have sex, white people don't ..... I'm sorry I can't think of another type of R Kelly song right now. The fact is most black people in the 60s that heard Dylan, loved him. Hendrix was one of his biggest fans. Who else was writing songs in 1964 about black maids murdered by the children of their opppressing white employers, and how the bull shit justice system only gave the guilty a six month sentence? ( The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol)
3) You see plenty black people in rock, it's callled Hip Hop, just ask Chuck D. Dylan inspired songwriters in the 60s to push it to the limit and expand. These song writers include Smokey Robinson, which had an effect on Marvin Gaye and his What's Going On album, which influenced hundreds of rap pioneers to start spitting about there surroundings, which is what Dylan made famous, (not invent).
4) Springsteen (yes him again), also wrote about his surroundings, which were the poor streets of New Jersey. His first few albums are filled with tales of gang violence, murder, the streets, welfare, and various other criminal activity, the whole time creating characters that commit these acts and fall victim to society, but giving them a soul and personality that are relatable to any one who has ever been part of or near that style of life. And to those that weren't, he gave them a window into the depths of society's gutter. What makes this so different "lyrically" than most street rappers? I couldn't tell you.
To me, and to a lot of people Rock n Roll is not a sound, it is an attitude. A way for people to express them selves, and their problems with the society they live in, and every type of music that does so is Rock n Roll. Rap, metal, punk, RnB, rockabilly, whatever. It is not a style it is a state of mind.
P.S. the only reason Jay Z could not make a Beatles quality album is because he isn't talented enough to compete musically with any of the fab four. Ringo is the only one you can make an argument with. Jay is playing college ball and he's very good, but the Beatles are like the 50s-60s Celtics, 11 championships in 13 years.
Don Breezio:
so then if its ok to compare bruce springsteen with r. kelly...how come its not ok to compare beethoven with dr. dre? personally i don't agree with comparing either of them but you just totally threw out a double standard.
the fact that you keep on this r. kelly only sings about sex thing shows you know absolutely nothing about r. kelly's music...you're even posting in a topic about a song where he's singing about god! r. kelly caters to more than just the black audience...thats why i feel he's one of the most talented out there right now...but for instance someone like jay-z talking about the hood, pimpin, slangin, etc...isn't exactly going to hit home for most white people. again im not trying to be racist but i think just about everyone on here knows its true...i dunno bout you but i rarely see a black guy in rock...and i rarely see a black guy listen to rock.
yes...most black people in the 60's loved dylan...because they could relate to his lyrics...the rock thats out nowadays really only relates to the upper class considering 90% of it is about girls dumping the guy...whereas hip hop is all about the streets (and/or money & women). you seem to forget that the stuff coming out in the 60's was TOTALLY DIFFERENT than whats coming out today.
rock and roll is a state of mind? you are right about that but only to a point...rock and roll is a lot more than that. yes you're right...just about every type of music now branched off from rock & roll at some point...but then again leaves & berry's can come off the same bush but you only eat one of them now don't you?
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Luke on April 28, 2004, 09:40:17 PM ---so then if its ok to compare bruce springsteen with r. kelly...how come its not ok to compare beethoven with dr. dre? personally i don't agree with comparing either of them but you just totally threw out a double standard.
the fact that you keep on this r. kelly only sings about sex thing shows you know absolutely nothing about r. kelly's music...you're even posting in a topic about a song where he's singing about god! r. kelly caters to more than just the black audience...thats why i feel he's one of the most talented out there right now...but for instance someone like jay-z talking about the hood, pimpin, slangin, etc...isn't exactly going to hit home for most white people. again im not trying to be racist but i think just about everyone on here knows its true...i dunno bout you but i rarely see a black guy in rock...and i rarely see a black guy listen to rock.
yes...most black people in the 60's loved dylan...because they could relate to his lyrics...the rock thats out nowadays really only relates to the upper class considering 90% of it is about girls dumping the guy...whereas hip hop is all about the streets (and/or money & women). you seem to forget that the stuff coming out in the 60's was TOTALLY DIFFERENT than whats coming out today.
rock and roll is a state of mind? you are right about that but only to a point...rock and roll is a lot more than that. yes you're right...just about every type of music now branched off from rock & roll at some point...but then again leaves & berry's can come off the same bush but you only eat one of them now don't you?
--- End quote ---
I never said it's not OK to compare Beethoven to Dre, I just think it's stupid because Beethoven is light years better than Dre, it's like comparing someone to Jesus because they held the door open for an elderly lady. As for double standard, I actual did compare Dre and Beethoven, so how could you get the idea I would think that it cannot be done.
As far as the music being black and white is concerned. I disagree, I think it's the image people are attracted to. It's unpopular for black kids to like Rock music, and it's sometimes dangerous for white kids to try and rap ( I saw 8 Mile, I know what I'm talking about). Young black kids look up to rich older black thugs who get all the girls, and the actual music plays second fiddle. What black kid in a ghetto wants promote he likes songs about suicide, and rape. They want the bling, and the bitches. It's not the music, it's society. The same society that portrays black people as cooler and tougher, which is why you see all those stupid white kids with sagging pants and fake street accents.
Also, I didn't see a response to my Springsteen paragraph. Is it because you're downloading his entire catalog as we speak? Admit it he's amazing.
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