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Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel

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Don Rizzle:
oh i got an idea why not tarmac over what is left of palestine make make it all flat n that, and there won't be any places to hide any more so you'll be able to see all your black and white sheep run around in their pen, wouldn't that be lovelly.

smerlus:

--- Quote from: Maradona on July 06, 2004, 09:51:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: smerlus on July 04, 2004, 02:26:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Maradona on July 04, 2004, 01:43:15 AM ---So you mean to tell me that Palestinians started fighting back 500 years after the state of Israel was created? Good lord, you're an idiot.

--- End quote ---

no i'm saying your an idiot for impling that something that happened 500 years ago is the same thing as something that happens recently

--- End quote ---

Europeans settled the land in large numbers, killed off the Native Americans, created a nation.

Israelis settled the land in large numbers coming from Europe (Zionist movement), killed off the Palestinians or forced them to migrate, created a nation.

I'm sure you still can't see it, but just keep using your 24 brain cells and you might figure it out.

--- End quote ---

a nice broad summary of history but i like how you forgot facts to twist the arguement into your light... can you ever debate using actual facts? here have some facts:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_un_arabrejection.php

Don Rizzle:
and that doesn't have any spin? all the additional reading are israeli or pro israeli. although the actual article was only written in a slightly pro israeli stance IMO

smerlus:
well it's kind of hard to paint a pretty picture of:

The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. The armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq invaded Israel on May 15, 1947, the day after Israel's Independence Day, with the clear intention of killing the infant state in its cradle.

On May 15, 1947 Azzam Pasha called for "jihad", saying:

This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".
Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, agreed with Pasha:

I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!
In a letter to the United Nations, the Transjordanian Prime Minister was quoted:

Our position is clear, and has been proclaimed on every occasion. It is never to allow the creation of a Jewish State in Palestine and to exclude partition. And our object is to cooperate with the other Arab States in her deliverance. Once this aim is attained, the determination of her future status is the right and concern of her own people. Theirs alone is the last word. We have no other object or aim in view.

Don Rizzle:
1) jews were not entitled to the land
2) israel regected the partition and the cease fire agreement anyway because it was too small, and showed little interest in peace intiatives
3) israel got arabs off the land by any means
4) the arab nations generally attacked the expanded part of israel not included in the partition
5) look at israel on a map palestine is cut in 2, and israel is much bigger than the two halves put together.
6) year on year israels terrirtory has expanded
7) arabs and in particular palestinians have incured far more deaths and injuries since israel was started
8 ) israel pays little attention to international watchdogs and organisations like the UN or even international law
9) israel has one of the largest nuclear stock piles of weapons in the world and has not signed up to the non proliferication treaty so is not subject to sanctions and opporates on a "no show no tell policy" while they expect the rest of the middle east to be put under international pressure to not produce nuclear weapons (eg iran)
10) in whats left of palestine the israeli army enjoys shooting small children, buldozing farms and houses to the ground, firering missles and tank shells into the refugee camps especially when large crowds are present, have military check points everywhere.
11) in 1947 the area allocated to the jews by the UN had a jewish population of 520,000. there are now over 4 million palestinian refugees at the present day.


who do u think got a raw deal?

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