Why no love for what mobb deep has done in the game

[teecee]

THe fact that Mobb Deeps impact is debatable says to me that they arent top 5 groups.  How are you gonna debate the impact of RUN DMC, Public Enemy, Outkast, Tribe, etc?


Besides, having Havoc as top 10 producer just isnt right.  Sure he may be one of your favourite, but he aint top 10.  Warren G is perhaps my favourite producer, and like Havoc has produced a couple classics or near classics, but i still dont consider him top 10.  On my personal list he is number 1 however, but i am able to see the difference

[pappy]

first off it mobb deep changed there content around everyone would bitch.  If they spit socially conscience stuff all the people that bitch about there content now would say how the fuck are you goin go to gun slinging to social commentary.  And everyone here knows that too.  How isnt he a top 10 rap producer of all time.  Dre, Primo, pete rock, large professor, quik, marely marl, qtip, an the rza are the only producers i can think of i put above him.  An when i think about i put rza an havoc on the same level.  And impact wise,  they must of had an impact if pee's voice on the infamous has been sampled countless times.  And pee from 94-98, lyrically is a top 15.  He aint sayin much in his rhymes except the gun talk.  But lyrically he could hang with anyone from that time period.  Granted hes fallen off,  almost as hard as snoop lol.  They have 2 back to back classics an 1 near classic.  How many rappers can say they have done that.  Im not talkin about 3 during the course of there career,  im talkin 3 in a row like that.  Very few, off the top of my head only 3 i can think of are 2pac n Cube.

[Jome]

However, to say that most people view them as top 5 or top 3 is not true.......i have rarely heard anyone say that besides Gotti or Jome.............yes, Mobb Deep has made some great music and are still a good group today.  However, compare them with Tribe Called Quest, Gangstarr,  Public Enemy,  Run Dmc,  Outkast,  Beastie Boys  etc and it aint really close . 

Mobb Deep is in the top 10 when it comes to hiphop groups no doubt..
You can not really compare them to Outkast & Beastie Boys, they're doing totally different music..
And Mobb Deep is still doing it on a big scale.. unlike many other, either dysfunctional or shut down groups.

Wether Prodigy is a puppy studiogangster or not, I don't care.. it's the music & the catalog that counts for me.. 

Besides, having Havoc as top 10 producer just isnt right.

Oh man, peep his resume..
He may not make the worldwide anthems or hits, but he knocks banger after banger, and got that dark eerie style on lock..

[Kill]

As for impact on the game and originality, they have brought very little

that's not true. "The Infamous" and "Survival Of The Fittest" and "Shook Ones Pt. II" did have an impact. That second album along with Illmatic kind of defined the typical Queensbridge style and what would be labeled 'reality rap' and contributed to givin people the idea of what Queensbridge as a hood was/is like that we generally got more than any other album

I agree some people don't give them the credit they deserve. As for the mainstream it is nuthin but logical that the grimey, dark and depressive style they had in most of their songs never appealed to the masses like the party tunes on Doggystyle

Shallow, don't talk about bein grown up and mature lyrics and then come up with NWA. If "Niggaz 4 Life" is sumthin for grown-ups to listen to then any Mobb Deep album is

NWA is comical. You're not supposed to take those guys serious. Everything they did was a joke, intentionally.Mobb Deep want to be taken as serious. Besides I put NWA on my list based on impact. That is undisputable. If Mobb had that kind of impact then I'd add them too.

"She Swallowed It" is comical. "Straight Outta Compton" ain't. I won't repeat what I said about impact, but Tom's point is good too. I don't know any album with vocals that have been sampled and quoted more than "The Infamous", maybe "Paid In Full", nuthin else comin to mind

[Shallow]

As for impact on the game and originality, they have brought very little

that's not true. "The Infamous" and "Survival Of The Fittest" and "Shook Ones Pt. II" did have an impact. That second album along with Illmatic kind of defined the typical Queensbridge style and what would be labeled 'reality rap' and contributed to givin people the idea of what Queensbridge as a hood was/is like that we generally got more than any other album

I agree some people don't give them the credit they deserve. As for the mainstream it is nuthin but logical that the grimey, dark and depressive style they had in most of their songs never appealed to the masses like the party tunes on Doggystyle

Shallow, don't talk about bein grown up and mature lyrics and then come up with NWA. If "Niggaz 4 Life" is sumthin for grown-ups to listen to then any Mobb Deep album is

NWA is comical. You're not supposed to take those guys serious. Everything they did was a joke, intentionally.Mobb Deep want to be taken as serious. Besides I put NWA on my list based on impact. That is undisputable. If Mobb had that kind of impact then I'd add them too.

"She Swallowed It" is comical. "Straight Outta Compton" ain't. I won't repeat what I said about impact, but Tom's point is good too. I don't know any album with vocals that have been sampled and quoted more than "The Infamous", maybe "Paid In Full", nuthin else comin to mind

I disagree. Even Straight Outta Compton was egotistical hyperbole. Everybody knew these guys were talking shit. The ones that didn't, found out a couple years later when Cube started on his political tip, and basically admitted to talking shit in the NWA days. It's actually very apparent if you just look at the video and listen to the tone of the record. It's like when those Heavy Metal bands praise Satan and Evil, they're only doing it to get a rise out of people, have fun, and make money. Mobb Deep on the other hand constantly promote their loyalty to the streets and street life.

Even so, I simply don't like the music, and I don't put them on my list. This doesn't mean I'll commit my life to making sure everybody hates them. Prodigy doesn't even rhyme sometimes. Now I don't mind if an artists sacrifices style for content every now and then, but Prodigy doesn't say shit worth listening to. That is how I feel about the matter. If you feel different then that is fine.

As for impact, who cares if his voice was sampled? The movie Scarface and Good Fellas get sampled and refered to all the time. I by no means believe that if these movies never came out that rap would be different. The rappers would just find something else that relates to their mindset, just like they would find some one else's voice to sample.

[jeromechickenbone]

Egotistical hyperbole, huh? And I wouldn't say that everything NWA dd iwas a "joke".  But you were on point saying that the majorirty of shit they said was to get a rise out of people - a la "Fuck The Police".  I really think they had that mentality at that age, but they definitly knew that controversy sells. Now of course they weren't walking around shooting people and shit, but neither are most people that talk about it in their raps.  As for the heavy metal thing, there are some bands that are really into some fucked up shit.  I suggest you do some research on the band "Deicide". See if you think they are joking.

And you don't think that if the movie scarface was never made, that rap wouldn't be any different?  Well one of my favorite rappers is a guy named scarface. So yeah he would have a different name.  And the classic line in "NY state of mind" - I'm like scarface sniffin cocaine, holdin the M-16, see with the pen I'm extreme.  We wouldn't have that line now, would we? So i think you're overlooking how significant some of these things are to hip hop. Their effects are pretty intangible, but they are definitely there.

[pappy]

lol, shit scarface has a huge impact on rap.

[Shallow]

Actually Al Capone's nick name was Scarface, so the rapper may have gotten it from there. Even if it were from the movie, his name could just as easily have been Corleone, and it wouldn't be big difference. I didn't mean that Scarface isn't present in the rap scene, I just mean that another movie would take it's place, and quite easily.

As for the Metal band you speak of, I'm not stating that every band claiming to be satanic is not, but the majority of the bands, particularly in the some what main stream that were accused of worshipping and embraced Satan were full of shit. Look how Ozzy "promoted" suicide, he's still alive and having fun.

[ecrazy]

I Heart Mobb Deep

[smartass]

i guess im the only one whos never seen this "no love" for the mobb

havoc is the 2nd best rapper/producer, behind lord finesse

prodigy was a top 5 mc in 96

they brought no originality because they got their style from g rap

if they would've retired after murda muzik, their legacy would be much better

p is just looked upon as a joke, and alchemist is making havocs speciality better than he is, and hes been past his prime for about 5 years now.

just for the record:prodigy ripped 2pac to shreds on a few occasions. you dickriders need to get over it already, cause he was still alive at the time, and if you got hell on earth when it was first released, you would know this because both drop a gem on em, and in the long run were on there.

[Kill]

I disagree. Even Straight Outta Compton was egotistical hyperbole. Everybody knew these guys were talking shit. The ones that didn't, found out a couple years later when Cube started on his political tip, and basically admitted to talking shit in the NWA days. It's actually very apparent if you just look at the video and listen to the tone of the record. It's like when those Heavy Metal bands praise Satan and Evil, they're only doing it to get a rise out of people, have fun, and make money. Mobb Deep on the other hand constantly promote their loyalty to the streets and street life.

Ok, partly you've got a point. I wouldn't try to deny Prodigy spittin lines like "yeah nigga, this is QB dunny and I'm gonna cut you up, filll your whole team up with slugs" andsoon today is kinda lame. Still, in their earlier years Mobb Deep spit rhymes that weren't necessarily exaggerated and drew a picture of the streets that i never heard anybody say wasn't authentic. NWA always exaggerated and shit, but still they were seriously tryin to look hard

Even so, I simply don't like the music, and I don't put them on my list. This doesn't mean I'll commit my life to making sure everybody hates them. Prodigy doesn't even rhyme sometimes. Now I don't mind if an artists sacrifices style for content every now and then, but Prodigy doesn't say shit worth listening to. That is how I feel about the matter. If you feel different then that is fine.

Prodigy fell of big-time. He just don't seem to put work into his rhymes no more. But he don't lack talent. Around '96 Pee was a great MC; "Drop A Gem On Em" is a diss track Pac couldn't have got back at lyrically, "Apostle's Warning" has Pee spittin sum wild shit and on many songs he displayed a talent for formulating the same shit a lot of rappers said quite elegantly, which is partly the reason why so many people have sampled his vocals

As for impact, who cares if his voice was sampled? The movie Scarface and Good Fellas get sampled and refered to all the time. I by no means believe that if these movies never came out that rap would be different. The rappers would just find something else that relates to their mindset, just like they would find some one else's voice to sample.

That's not a good point. That's like "Who cares Parliament was sampled over and over again? If they hadn't existed Dre and all the others would've just found another funk band to bite". Yeah, but shit would be different. Legendary songs like "Let Me Ride" wouldn't exist or be completly different. Same for shit based on Mobb Deep material. "Worst Comes To Worst" is all based on that Havoc sample, who knows if Dilated Peoples would have ever made such a song if it wasn't for "Survival Of The Fittest". And as for these movies it's the same. Because they do not only 'relate to rappers' mindsets', but also they had and are having an influence on how all these rappers make their shit sound, and therefore on hiphop as an artform/music style in general. Of course without them rappers would have found another movie. But then, logically shit would be different

"The Infamous" even layed the blueprint for other (very dope) releases like "The War Report" and mid-90's QB rap sounded much more like that than like Marley Marl and MC Shan and hence i disagree with anybody claimin it wasn't influential

[Shallow]

I disagree. Even Straight Outta Compton was egotistical hyperbole. Everybody knew these guys were talking shit. The ones that didn't, found out a couple years later when Cube started on his political tip, and basically admitted to talking shit in the NWA days. It's actually very apparent if you just look at the video and listen to the tone of the record. It's like when those Heavy Metal bands praise Satan and Evil, they're only doing it to get a rise out of people, have fun, and make money. Mobb Deep on the other hand constantly promote their loyalty to the streets and street life.

Ok, partly you've got a point. I wouldn't try to deny Prodigy spittin lines like "yeah nigga, this is QB dunny and I'm gonna cut you up, filll your whole team up with slugs" andsoon today is kinda lame. Still, in their earlier years Mobb Deep spit rhymes that weren't necessarily exaggerated and drew a picture of the streets that i never heard anybody say wasn't authentic. NWA always exaggerated and shit, but still they were seriously tryin to look hard

Even so, I simply don't like the music, and I don't put them on my list. This doesn't mean I'll commit my life to making sure everybody hates them. Prodigy doesn't even rhyme sometimes. Now I don't mind if an artists sacrifices style for content every now and then, but Prodigy doesn't say shit worth listening to. That is how I feel about the matter. If you feel different then that is fine.

Prodigy fell of big-time. He just don't seem to put work into his rhymes no more. But he don't lack talent. Around '96 Pee was a great MC; "Drop A Gem On Em" is a diss track Pac couldn't have got back at lyrically, "Apostle's Warning" has Pee spittin sum wild shit and on many songs he displayed a talent for formulating the same shit a lot of rappers said quite elegantly, which is partly the reason why so many people have sampled his vocals

As for impact, who cares if his voice was sampled? The movie Scarface and Good Fellas get sampled and refered to all the time. I by no means believe that if these movies never came out that rap would be different. The rappers would just find something else that relates to their mindset, just like they would find some one else's voice to sample.

That's not a good point. That's like "Who cares Parliament was sampled over and over again? If they hadn't existed Dre and all the others would've just found another funk band to bite". Yeah, but shit would be different. Legendary songs like "Let Me Ride" wouldn't exist or be completly different. Same for shit based on Mobb Deep material. "Worst Comes To Worst" is all based on that Havoc sample, who knows if Dilated Peoples would have ever made such a song if it wasn't for "Survival Of The Fittest". And as for these movies it's the same. Because they do not only 'relate to rappers' mindsets', but also they had and are having an influence on how all these rappers make their shit sound, and therefore on hiphop as an artform/music style in general. Of course without them rappers would have found another movie. But then, logically shit would be different

"The Infamous" even layed the blueprint for other (very dope) releases like "The War Report" and mid-90's QB rap sounded much more like that than like Marley Marl and MC Shan and hence i disagree with anybody claimin it wasn't influential

The difference between Parliament and Prodigy's voice being sampled is that one changed the landscape of Hip Hop for a few years and the other became the chorus of a few rap songs. P Funk was key element in the early 90s rap scene. Prodigy was hardly that.

As for the queens bridge stuff, Nas was there and he easily inluenced a lot record companies to go with Queensbridge stuff.

The bottom line is no parliament could have changed the entire history of rap. With or without Scarface or Mobb Deep, the rap industry would still have been gang land influenced.

[Kill]

yeah I'm not gonna deny Parliament was more important. All I'm sayin is
1. Prodigy has done sum nice work even tho he fell the fuck off
2. Mobb Deep did have an influence and rap would be different without them
3. "Scarface" did have an influence and rap would be different without it
but if you disagree that's ok. I just tried to get my point across, peace

[Shallow]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey, no big deal. It's not that I think Mobb or Scarface the Movie had no influence at all. I just don't think they had enough of an influence to list either in a top ten significant goups or entities list. All I was trying to say was that Mobb and Scarface added to the gang style of hip hop from the mid 90s to today. A group Parliament was a key component in a massive change for rap for an entire era.

[teecee]

but Tom's point is good too. I don't know any album with vocals that have been sampled and quoted more than "The Infamous", maybe "Paid In Full", nuthin else comin to mind

um, ever heard of Big Daddy kane or slick rick? most sampled voices ever..........but really, WHO GIVES A FUCK WHO"S VOICE WAS SAMPLED? 

Saying that Worst comes to worst by dilated was based on something Mobb did is ridiculous.  Im pretty sure they didnt sample his voice and then be like, oh yeah, lets get a bit fro somewhere as an aftertought!!!  Seriously, the major sample on that song is the beat itself, off the classic soul tune I Forgot to be your lover.   Without Prodigy, the only thing different about Worst COmes to Worst would've been the chorus!! 


NOw, Mobb Deep DOES get love in the rap game, they always sell quite well for a group with limited subject matter and little originality, they've had a good (or great) career, but no, they are not top 5 groups, Havoc is not top 10 producer, and Prodigy is not top 15 (maybe even 20) mcs!

Nowadays, i would even say that ALchemist does Havoc's style better than he does.........Havoc is still dope though, but anyone else notice the best beats on the new Mobb album werent even his?