Lifestyle > Train of Thought
100,000 Civilians Deaths Since 2003 US Invasion
Ant:
Antonio, I agree the results may be flawed, but I also believe there is an incentive for the US to understate the civilian death toll. Either way, there have been a large number of civilian casualties, counted in the tens of thousands. Additionally, there are thousands who are now homeless, and thousands with serious life altering injuries (i.e. people with missing limbs, shrapnel embedded in their body, paralysis, permanent scarring, etc.)
This post was meant to highlight the cost of war. 3000 Americans were killed sept. 11th, many of them were from manhattan, a city that voted 90-10 against Bush, and strongly opposes the Iraq war.
You stated "we went to Iraq to liberate the Iraqis." Nothing could be further from the truth. We went to war because we feared Iraq had WMD, and ties to terrorism. The final analysis proved it had neither. Now we are fighting for the freedom of a people who are violently opposing our occupation. A new breed of Iraqi politicians have been given power, and not surprisingly have thanked the US for their newly granted authority, but their support is hardly conclusive evidence that we are doing the right thing in Iraq.
It is not right nor is it fair to force a system of government on people, by killing their citizens, and proclaiming yourself in the right. If the objective is to help the iraqi people establish a new form of government that form of government should be their own choice. The US was not established by a 3rd party fighting for our freedom. We choose our freedom and fought for it ourselves. In Iraq, we made a miscalculation, and disguised it by calling it a fight for freedom. But how can you say you are fighting for the people, when you are killing them to achieve an objective that was determined by us not them?
In the end I can only say that this is not a simple situation with simple answers, and you should be cautious before you quickly jump to a conclusion that says we are always in the right because our government says so. Its not for you or me to determine whether, and how the Iraqis, or any group of people earn their freedom. It is not for you or me to call them cowards for choosing another way of life. The Iraqis are fighting for their way of life. You can see it daily. They are fighting against the coalition. They are fighting against the US because thousands of their family members have been killed by US bombs, there houses have been destroyed, and their children have died because of our actions. If you cannot understand why this is the case, simply consider your actions had your brother been killed by a foreign nation occupying your country and arrogantly telling you they are there to help you when everyone knows they were there because of WMD that never existed.
Rain:
--- Quote from: Antonio on November 09, 2004, 10:38:08 AM ---1. In the list you should add all the civils (journalists, doctors, etc..) killed by terrorists, and the death of those ones is as brutal and wrong as the death of all the other "innocent" Iraqi people. Cause all i read here is that Americans are bombing innocents. But guess what? Terrorists are doing the same! They bombed the Twin Towers, and there were no soldiers in it (am i wrong?). They boicotted airplanes using innocent people like "bombs". They've bombed Italian Carabinieri, and they were there to help building streets and helping doctors in the Badgad hospitals. They've bombed Red Cross. They've bombed UN. They've bombed Iraqi police. They've killed the most important political Iraqi who were about to instaure Democracy in Iraq. They've killed journalists and beheaded people live on tv. So please, when you make topics like this one, always remember that. Cause if you dont, you only say a small part of the story. Dont reply with: "They had to defend themselves", cause i didnt quote the deaths of soldiers, but the deaths of innocent people who wasnt fighting a war. Just like the "poor" Iraqi citizen arent.
--- End quote ---
hang on - r u just arguing that there is no difference between the Terrorists and the American government?
It sounds like you're trying to say that because terrorists have killed innocent people - its alright for the american government to kill innocent people as well. i mean you can't be serious can you? If the America is trying to wage this war on terror - how in world does arguing that they are doing the same thing as terrorists help their case?
7even:
--- Quote from: Rain on November 09, 2004, 02:56:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Antonio on November 09, 2004, 10:38:08 AM ---1. In the list you should add all the civils (journalists, doctors, etc..) killed by terrorists, and the death of those ones is as brutal and wrong as the death of all the other "innocent" Iraqi people. Cause all i read here is that Americans are bombing innocents. But guess what? Terrorists are doing the same! They bombed the Twin Towers, and there were no soldiers in it (am i wrong?). They boicotted airplanes using innocent people like "bombs". They've bombed Italian Carabinieri, and they were there to help building streets and helping doctors in the Badgad hospitals. They've bombed Red Cross. They've bombed UN. They've bombed Iraqi police. They've killed the most important political Iraqi who were about to instaure Democracy in Iraq. They've killed journalists and beheaded people live on tv. So please, when you make topics like this one, always remember that. Cause if you dont, you only say a small part of the story. Dont reply with: "They had to defend themselves", cause i didnt quote the deaths of soldiers, but the deaths of innocent people who wasnt fighting a war. Just like the "poor" Iraqi citizen arent.
--- End quote ---
hang on - r u just arguing that there is no difference between the Terrorists and the American government?
It sounds like you're trying to say that because terrorists have killed innocent people - its alright for the american government to kill innocent people as well. i mean you can't be serious can you? If the America is trying to wage this war on terror - how in world does arguing that they are doing the same thing as terrorists help their case?
--- End quote ---
LoL, this is great.
*Jamal*:
A boy recovers in a Fallujah hospital after a U.S. airstrike in Fallujah, Iraq Saturday, Nov. 6, 2004, which killed his father, according to hospital officials. U.S. jets pounded Fallujah early Saturday in the heaviest airstrikes in six months, including five 500-pound bombs dropped on insurgent targets.
:-\
King Tech Quadafi:
Hey pussies , cowards, rednecks, stupid morons, republicans etc
Guess what the casualty figures were from the first Gulf War? Dont know? Thats cuz they remain a secret.
So you understand why Tech thinks of the majority of you guys as monkeys when you debate the scientific nature of this poll.
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