Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Arafat Has Passed Away
*Jamal*:
Yeah, it's an interesting encyclopedia
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 06:45:20 AM ---
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on November 19, 2004, 06:27:15 AM ---So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after the WW2 I would say his convictions were hystoriclly incorect.
--- End quote ---
I already answered that in my post:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 05:05:45 AM ---You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
--- End quote ---
By the way, I didn't get any of my information from any website at all. I read books.
In addition, if you don't hold the statements made by an ISRAELI HISTORIAN credible, and feel that you know more about the situation than he does, then what do you consider a credible source? The Israeli government's website?
--- End quote ---
Historions have opinions and diffrences on certain isues, What I do know for a fact is that large numbers of Jews fleed to USA after WW2 and this alone already discredits his statement.
p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
*Jamal*:
Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,
By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.
Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).
LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...
*Jamal*:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on November 19, 2004, 07:04:20 AM ---p.s So suddenly The Birts didn't want the Jewish imigration to stop? The Jewish Irguns terrorised the Brits, They had no interest in granting Jews with a state...At least the Palestinians didn't fight them.
--- End quote ---
You obviously aren't as well informed about the situation. Let me break it down for you...
After World War I, Britain and France pretty much split the Arab world and took a share (Sykes-Picot Agreement). The British offered Arab leaders independent states in exchange for an Arab led revolt against the Ottomans. At the same time the British announced the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish state. Around the time of World War II, Britain seeked assistance from the Arab armies in the region, and in 1939 issued a White Paper, which put quotas on Jewish immigrants to Palestine. The war effort became more important to the British than the creation of a Jewish state, and Zionists got angry because they knew that in order for them to have their Jewish state, there would have to be extensive immigration to increase the small Jewish community. So the Zionists needed a new patron of their state. With America controlling more and more oil in the region, it needed stability in the region. It needed a stable ally. With all these new assets, America felt that a U.S. oriented, European populated Jewish state in Palestine, a more trustworthy, stable ally was necessary. When Truman asked the British to allow an extra 100,000 of Jewish refugees, the British went to bargain with the Zionists, offering them this wave of refugees if the Zionists disarm. The Zionists responded by blowing up all that shit, and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand). And we have the birth of Israel.
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 07:13:27 AM ---Yes, Jews did come to the U.S.
He didn't say that no Jews came here; he stated that at the time, in Europe, a large number of Jews were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine.,
By the way, Klausner was a ZIONIST ORGANIZER, and this is what he told the American Jewish Congress.
Benny Morris, the ISRAELI HISTORIAN, is the one who said that the refuge problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages. (contradictory to the bullshit the Israeli government made up decades before saying that the Arab leaders told the people to flee).
LOL, seriously, look at the sources in capital letters.... if you consider that "bias" then there's no point in arguing with you because God forbid I use an Arab/Palestinian source... we'd have PROPAGANDA typed all over the thread...
--- End quote ---
Clausner was speculating, I just think that if all Jews that fleed to USA would be forced to come to Israel than the whole Isue of the Jewish Majority could be solved.
Atacks of Jewish Irguns on Arab Villages for no reason had no practicall point at the time, especially when the ideology of the Irguns was originally to create a bi-national state with the Palestinians....If there was something to that effect it could have only been retaliation due to Local conflicts.
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