Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Arafat Has Passed Away
acbaylove:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 05:05:45 AM ---First of all, you can't go around calling it the "historical Jewish homeland" and their return to it.
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You didnt need to complete the post. This reply is enought. I agree with you.
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 05:05:45 AM ---First of all, you can't go around calling it the "historical Jewish homeland" and their return to it. One reason is because no matter how far you go back in history, there was always someone there "before". The ancient Hebrews settled there after the Philistines (ancestors of Palestinians). Palestinians never left that land. They've always been there. Secondly, as previously stated, before the Zionist movement, the Jewish population in that area was less than 10%. Those European Jews never lived on that land, nor did their ancestors. A majority of European Jews are descendants of the Khazzar tribe, which converted to Judaism in the 8th century. It really makes no sense to go back thousands of years in history to try and proclaim who was there first, but even if you did, it is evident that Hebrews arrived there to find the Philistines.
You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
By the end of the war, the U.S. was controlling about 40% of Middle Eastern oil, and they were desperate for a "stable" ally, so they turned to the backing of the creation of a Jewish state which would be dependent on America and subservient to meet all its needs and carry out the dirty work. The Palestinian population was completely ignored.
You heard of Chaplain Klausner? He was the Zionist organizer, and admitted that most of the Jewish refugees wanted to come to America, but they were only offered refuge if they went to Palestine. His exact statement was: "I am convinced that the people were forced to go to Palestine." Then, anyone that challenged Zionism was quickly labeled anti-Semitic, but do you see the irony in that? The U.S. would not allow Jews to come here, yet uses the concept of anti-Semitism for its own diplomatic/economic gain. The U.S. pressured Britain to lift all restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine. Zionist militias blew up eight roads and bridges in Palestine in 1946 when the British tried to bargain with them about the immigration quotas. Then a few months later, Irgun (Zionist militia) blew up the British government's wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem... killing 80 people, Arab, Jewish and British. Clashes erupted across the land and in 1947 Britain turned the problem over to the newly created UN. The U.S. was the most powerful member of the organization; there were only 55 member states, and most of those depended on U.S. aid to rebuild their war shattered countries/economies. For example, the Philippines voted against the partition and creation of a Jewish state. Guess what happened to the diplomat who spoke out in the General Assembly? He was recalled. The same thing happened to the delegate from Siam (Thailand).
Arabs and Jews continued fighting and in 1948 Israel just declared its independence. With the U.S. recognition of that theft of land, there was nothing anyone could do about it.
Could you imagine Assyrians rising up and wanting half of Iraq's land as their own nation?
By the way, if you know anything about the President Wilson (League of Nations/14 Points), you'd know about something called "Self-Determination".
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A very small percentage of east-European Jews are descendants of the Khazzar, Jew Converts that Originated from Khazzar are well aware of their heritage,plus, converted Jews hold a differened status according to the Galaha so tracing them is not a problem, Most European Jews are products of exile(descendants of Israel), As for Kneinites and Hebrews occuping this Land before Abraham arrived->True, But the Land was given to Abraham,
PHillistines are not ancestors of the Palestinians, They did inherit the sounding alike Name but that doesn't make them their ancestors, second of all, the Philistines weren't here before Jews you know what Philistine means in Hebrew ?! it originates in Plishtim(this is how it reads in the Torah) Plishtim is from Plisha (-Invasion), Philistines are Invadors, Torah states they Originated somwhere around todays Itally and Sailed to the east to take over the Land...I think you're mistaking the Philitines for Kneinites(the Land was called Kanaan in the Torah), But the Palestinians are anscestors of neither, they are a mixture of Arab Peninsula Arabs and Locals from Northern Africa. I think you've been getting Info from Palestinian "self-determination" sites...
So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after WW2 I would say his convictions were\are hystoriclly incorect.
*Jamal*:
--- Quote from: I TO DA GEEZY on November 19, 2004, 06:27:15 AM ---So, what if they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years so were the rest of the Arabs of the erea? (Jews were exiled for 2000 years yet they were the ones to start fighting for this Land), Leaders of Arab nations did gain land due to those Negotiations: Jordan, Egypt, Syria....Where were the Palestinians? why didn't they gain Land like the rest of the Arab parties? I'll tell you why, Because they had no Identity, They were refugees way before Israel proclaimed it's formal independence, They had no leadership since they weren't a singular mass...They proclaimed their national identity only to Claim their piece of the pie.
I forgot to coment on Chaplain Clausner, With the amount of Jews that fleed to USA after the WW2 I would say his convictions were hystoriclly incorect.
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I already answered that in my post:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 05:05:45 AM ---You ask why Palestinians never proclaimed a national identity... you have to remember they were under Ottoman control for about 400 years. World War I changed that... Britain and France began negotiations with Arab leaders, promising them independence if they helped over throw the Ottomans. At the same time, Britain and France also made their own little secret negotiations with the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing the Arab world between themselves. Then Britain took a third contradictory position by announcing the Balfour Declaration, promising Zionists a Jewish home. Obviously, all promises could not be met. The British weren't willing to give Palestinians an independent state because they knew that large scale Jewish immigration sponsored by European/American zionists would be brought to a stop.
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By the way, I didn't get any of my information from any website at all. I read books.
In addition, if you don't hold the statements made by an ISRAELI HISTORIAN credible, and feel that you know more about the situation than he does, then what do you consider a credible source? The Israeli government's website?
*Jamal*:
-The historic Philistines were a people that inhabited the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the arrival of the Israelites.
-Philistia the name of the Philistine Kingdoms became "Palestine" under the Romans
This is out of an encyclopedia...
I TO DA GEEZY:
--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 19, 2004, 06:48:22 AM ----The historic Philistines were a people that inhabited the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the arrival of the Israelites.
-Philistia the name of the Philistine Kingdoms became "Palestine" under the Romans
This is out of an encyclopedia... I'm assuming that it's biased in your opinion...
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Why would it call them "Invadors" if they Inhabited Knaan before Abraham?....If this is from an encyclopedia than it's an interesting one,
The term Palestinian Originated from Philistines but the people to whom it refered were diffrened, Just like Colombus with "Indians",
during one of the Mandates the Soldiers needed a Name for the Locals so they took out the first name out of the bible....
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