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"When We Were Kings" is the real Muhammad Ali movie
TraceOneInfinite:
That Will Smith movie was just some Hollywood project to make money. The real Muhammad Ali film is the documentary "When We Were Kings".
I have a burnt cd, with the theme song from that movie on there, the song the Fugee's did, it's one of my favourite songs, everytime I here it, I think I got to see the movie. Finally, I was sick last week, so I rented a few movies. This documentary is a masterpiece, classic.
I was suprised to see Don King back then, he promoted the Rumble In The Jungle fight, he's the one that put the whole event together, the movie showed everything, it even offered intelligent discussion and footage of Ziare's people and ruler at the time Mobutu(?) Norman Mailer provided excellent commentary throughout.
ESPN did a nice piece on Ali during it's Greatest Athletes Special, but nothing on Muhammad Ali compares to this film. If you never see anything on Muhammad Ali, see this film.
On The Edge of Insanity:
It's a really dope documentary, and I agree much better than the Will Smith starring feature film. It wasn't Spike Lee though, it was Leon Gast.
On The Edge of Insanity:
--- Quote from: Safar, 1426 Years After Hijrah on March 13, 2005, 07:02:23 AM ---
--- Quote from: Rastaman Vibration on March 13, 2005, 03:04:05 AM ---It's a really dope documentary, and I agree much better than the Will Smith starring feature film. It wasn't Spike Lee though, it was Leon Gast.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the info, did Spike Lee produce it or play any hand in it besides providing commentary?
--- End quote ---
I think he was just commentary, doesn't list him on the dvd box as being anything else.
Trauma-san:
Infinite. Think about this for a minute. The entire movie features footage shot in the 70's, way before Spike Lee was around. Do you think they were just shooting the documentary footage, in the 70's, and saving it for Spike to grow up, or something?
Another example of your fanaticism.
Anyways, you are correct in saying that it's an excellent movie. It perfectly describes the significance of Muhammad Ali, and it's an excellent encapsulation of one of the most dramatic stories of all time, the defeat of the evil George Forman at the hands of the then thought to be past his prime Muhammad Ali.
My dad was a huge Ali fan, and lived through that whole fight experience. He used to talk about it all the time, one of the most impressive things he ever saw in his life.
You have to imagine the scene at the time... Ali was obviously great, and had already won (and been stripped) of the title. He had several fights, and had beaten several opponents. Joe Frazier had beaten Ali, and then along comes George Forman. George Forman knocked Joe Frazier out in the first fucking round. When Ali signed up to fight Forman, everybody thought Ali would be killed. There was a lot at stake here.
Ali was notorious for running his mouth. He had the greatest ego of all time, nobody has ever had an ego greater than Muhammad Ali's. In most instances, his ego didn't cause him any trouble, because he could back up anything he said: he simply was the greatest of all time. You have to imagine though, that Forman was just the one who could cast doubt on people's faith in Ali. Forman was a monster, he's what nightmares were all about at the time. He had beaten the living HELL out of everybody he'd fought, and like mentioned, he knocked out Joe Frazier, the man who had beaten Ali, in the FIRST ROUND. The First Frieking Round! Everybody thought Foreman would kill Ali. They thought, honestly (because my dad did, he literally thought this)... they thought that Ali had too much pride, and was only fighting for his pride. They thought that Ali would get his ass kicked, and would be too prideful to throw in the towel, continue to get beat on by Foreman, and that Foreman might kill him in the ring... because they knew Ali would never give up, it was impossible for Ali to admit he lost or that he was losing the match. Everybody loved Ali, and thought there was the potential for him to DIE in the ring. They didn't even feel that he could win, it never crossed most people's minds... all they thought about was how bad Ali would get beat up.
To make matters worse, Ali had fought several matches recently before Foreman, and in every match, he just BARELY won. It seemed like Ali was growing old, already headed down the other side of the mountain, and at each match, he'd show up overweight. Some matches, he would be embarassingly out of shape, and barely scrape out a win against a competitor not even in his league.
My dad went to see it on closed-circuit broadcast, which in those days meant you would head to the local arena, and they would play it live on huge projection screens in the center of the arena floor... they did this all over the world. Anyways, he paid to go, and was really afraid his favorite, Ali might get killed by Foreman. He had bet on the match, and had bet on Ali, even though he thought he was sure to lose, just because Ali was his favorite, and he couldn't bring himself to bet against him. He described to me dozens of times in his life the feeling he had, when he saw Ali get in the ring and take his robe off... gone was all the fat and extra weight of the fights before, Ali had apparently gotten serious, and had emerged from his robe like the true champion he was... lean, toned, and muscles rippling everywhere. He always said that when he saw Ali take his robe off, he felt relieved, and for the first time thought Ali actually had a chance.
The "Rope A Dope" thing was true genius, just plain, simple... a genius at work. He had found Foreman's weakness... while Foreman was stronger than any boxer around, Ali knew that Foreman 1. had never fought a long match, because he knocked everybody out so fast, and 2. Foreman was full of rage, it leaked over into every aspect of his life... from his choice of manager, to the pit bull he took with him everywhere he went, the man was meaner than any boxer before him(until Iron Mike Tyson showed up 15 years later). So the Rope A Dope not only wore Foreman out, but it pissed him off, making him hit Ali even harder... the combination killed Foreman. He beat himself up with those heavy gloves. My dad said when he saw Ali doing it, he was scared shitless, he was just thinking "Oh my God Ali's not even hitting him, he's gonna get killed".
If you watch the film, the Round before Ali knocks him out (I believe he knocked him out in the 7th, so look at the end of the 6th round). Ali turns to Foreman, points at him, and says "Your Ass Is Mine, Nigger". You can read it on his lips. Foreman comes out, starts beating the shit out of Ali on the ropes again... makes one wild swing, Ali comes around, 1,2,3, hits him so hard, so fast, Foreman just goes stumbling. Ali walks behind him, calm, collected, with his arm drawn back... one more punch cocked.... but he never throws it. Foreman was already done, and reeling, Ali couldn't bring himself to hit Foreman again, even though Foreman without a doubt would have hit Ali on the way down.
That's the difference between the two of them; or at least that WAS the difference between the two of them. Foreman fought a few more times as an angry black man, and then became a Christian preacher for over a decade, had a huge family, and is now one of the most beloved boxers of all time; probably the second most beloved, the first most beloved being Muhammad Ali, who is of course a devout Muslim.
What an amazing night in Zaire.
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: Trauma on March 13, 2005, 08:47:36 PM ---
Anyways, you are correct in saying that it's an excellent movie. It perfectly describes the significance of Muhammad Ali, and it's an excellent encapsulation of one of the most dramatic stories of all time, the defeat of the evil George Forman at the hands of the then thought to be past his prime Muhammad Ali.
My dad was a huge Ali fan, and lived through that whole fight experience. He used to talk about it all the time, one of the most impressive things he ever saw in his life.
You have to imagine the scene at the time... Ali was obviously great, and had already won (and been stripped) of the title. He had several fights, and had beaten several opponents. Joe Frazier had beaten Ali, and then along comes George Forman. George Forman knocked Joe Frazier out in the first fucking round. When Ali signed up to fight Forman, everybody thought Ali would be killed. There was a lot at stake here.
Ali was notorious for running his mouth. He had the greatest ego of all time, nobody has ever had an ego greater than Muhammad Ali's. In most instances, his ego didn't cause him any trouble, because he could back up anything he said: he simply was the greatest of all time. You have to imagine though, that Forman was just the one who could cast doubt on people's faith in Ali. Forman was a monster, he's what nightmares were all about at the time. He had beaten the living HELL out of everybody he'd fought, and like mentioned, he knocked out Joe Frazier, the man who had beaten Ali, in the FIRST ROUND. The First Frieking Round! Everybody thought Foreman would kill Ali. They thought, honestly (because my dad did, he literally thought this)... they thought that Ali had too much pride, and was only fighting for his pride. They thought that Ali would get his ass kicked, and would be too prideful to throw in the towel, continue to get beat on by Foreman, and that Foreman might kill him in the ring... because they knew Ali would never give up, it was impossible for Ali to admit he lost or that he was losing the match. Everybody loved Ali, and thought there was the potential for him to DIE in the ring. They didn't even feel that he could win, it never crossed most people's minds... all they thought about was how bad Ali would get beat up.
To make matters worse, Ali had fought several matches recently before Foreman, and in every match, he just BARELY won. It seemed like Ali was growing old, already headed down the other side of the mountain, and at each match, he'd show up overweight. Some matches, he would be embarassingly out of shape, and barely scrape out a win against a competitor not even in his league.
My dad went to see it on closed-circuit broadcast, which in those days meant you would head to the local arena, and they would play it live on huge projection screens in the center of the arena floor... they did this all over the world. Anyways, he paid to go, and was really afraid his favorite, Ali might get killed by Foreman. He had bet on the match, and had bet on Ali, even though he thought he was sure to lose, just because Ali was his favorite, and he couldn't bring himself to bet against him. He described to me dozens of times in his life the feeling he had, when he saw Ali get in the ring and take his robe off... gone was all the fat and extra weight of the fights before, Ali had apparently gotten serious, and had emerged from his robe like the true champion he was... lean, toned, and muscles rippling everywhere. He always said that when he saw Ali take his robe off, he felt relieved, and for the first time thought Ali actually had a chance.
The "Rope A Dope" thing was true genius, just plain, simple... a genius at work. He had found Foreman's weakness... while Foreman was stronger than any boxer around, Ali knew that Foreman 1. had never fought a long match, because he knocked everybody out so fast, and 2. Foreman was full of rage, it leaked over into every aspect of his life... from his choice of manager, to the pit bull he took with him everywhere he went, the man was meaner than any boxer before him(until Iron Mike Tyson showed up 15 years later). So the Rope A Dope not only wore Foreman out, but it pissed him off, making him hit Ali even harder... the combination killed Foreman. He beat himself up with those heavy gloves. My dad said when he saw Ali doing it, he was scared shitless, he was just thinking "Oh my God Ali's not even hitting him, he's gonna get killed".
If you watch the film, the Round before Ali knocks him out (I believe he knocked him out in the 7th, so look at the end of the 6th round). Ali turns to Foreman, points at him, and says "Your Ass Is Mine, Nigger". You can read it on his lips. Foreman comes out, starts beating the shit out of Ali on the ropes again... makes one wild swing, Ali comes around, 1,2,3, hits him so hard, so fast, Foreman just goes stumbling. Ali walks behind him, calm, collected, with his arm drawn back... one more punch cocked.... but he never throws it. Foreman was already done, and reeling, Ali couldn't bring himself to hit Foreman again, even though Foreman without a doubt would have hit Ali on the way down.
That's the difference between the two of them; or at least that WAS the difference between the two of them. Foreman fought a few more times as an angry black man, and then became a Christian preacher for over a decade, had a huge family, and is now one of the most beloved boxers of all time; probably the second most beloved, the first most beloved being Muhammad Ali, who is of course a devout Muslim.
What an amazing night in Zaire.
--- End quote ---
Nice commentary. Actually I remember reading your commentary on this movie a couple years ago when the Will Smith movie came out. Your praise of the movie another reason I wanted to rent this movie.
I still don't get the rope-a-dope thing though. I don't know enough about boxing. I don't see how this worked. It seemed like he was just a sitting duck, getting the crap beat out of him. Can you explain the rope-a-dope technique? Do boxers generally use this technique that often?
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