U.S. military finds abuse of Koran

[King Tech Quadafi]

An internal investigation at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has confirmed several cases of guards mishandling religious material, but the general in charge said guards were usually "respectful."

The confirmed incidents include a guard kicking a Koran, an interrogator standing on a Koran and a guard spraying a prisoner and his Koran with urine by relieving himself near an air vent.

Brigadier-General Jay Hood, the commander of the jail for terrorist suspects, said that the incidents detailed in his report are the exception to the rule.

"The inquiry ... revealed a consistent, documented policy of respectful handling of the Koran dating back almost two-and-a-half years," he said in a statement issued late Friday.

Gen. Hood was looking into allegations -- reported and then retracted by Newsweek magazine -- that U.S. personnel at the penal camp had flushed a prisoner's Koran down the toilet. The report angered some in the Muslim world and reports from the region said that the street violence had killed a number of people.

But the statement from Gen. Hood said that his investigators had found no evidence to support that specific allegation.

"The inquiry found no credible evidence that a member of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay ever flushed a Koran down a toilet. This matter is considered closed."

Gen. Hood's statement did, however, detail a series of other incidents in which the Koran had been mishandled. He also noted that the prisoners themselves appeared to have debased their own Korans on as many as 15 occasions.

Hundreds of terrorist suspects have been held at Guantanamo Bay, some of them for years. They exist in a legal limbo, accorded neither the status of prisoners-of-war nor the privileges and rights of international law. Amnesty International recently described the camp as a modern-day "gulag," an emotive term that brought angry response from U.S. President George W. Bush and Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Gen. Hood said that his team looked into a total of 19 Koran-handling incidents. They concluded that 10 of them were the result of appropriate and routine behaviour by guards. Four others could not be conclusively determined to have happened or not happened. The remaining five are considered confirmed.

The confirmed incidents include:

* a guard kicking a prisoner's Koran;

* Korans being wetted by water balloons thrown by guards;

* a "two-word obscenity" written inside the cover of a Koran, which Gen. Hood's report says could have been done by a guard or the prisoner himself;

* a guard who relieved himself too close to an air vent, spraying a prisoner and his Koran; and

* a contract interrogator who stepped on a Koran during an interrogation.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050604.wkoran0604/BNStory/International/



Dont worry guys, the people being quoted are enemies of America 

[Shallow]

Does anyone really think that it'd be any different Muslims invaded Christian countries? I'll bet my life the same shit would happen to a whole buch of Bibles or Icons if America was taken over. I wonder how many Christian artifacts were destroyed when Spain was taken over. I know a whole bunch of shit went down in Greece when Turkey took over.

All I have to say is big feal. So there are people out there ignorant to the sanctity of other peoples beliefs and religions. What else is new? Just remember that contradicting your religion in order to defend it isn't defending it at all. It's hurting it.

[King Tech Quadafi]

monkey, do u see me in any of these damn threaqds? do u see me railing against the injustices going on?


no

i dont give 2 shits about my Quran being desecrated because my entire community has been desecrated for 60 years. this means nothing and is putting the attention off where it needs to be. This thread- basically every post of mine- is made to rip apart stupid opinions being passed around


the latest being, "dont believe these reports, they come from our enemies"


last week, these fags said the reports were false. then they are proven wrong.

prediction: this is the work of low level soldiers with no higher up information.

thats the opinion thats gonna go around this place next week

[King Tech Quadafi]

Does anyone really think that it'd be any different Muslims invaded Christian countries? I'll bet my life the same shit would happen to a whole buch of Bibles or Icons if America was taken over. I wonder how many Christian artifacts were destroyed when Spain was taken over. I know a whole bunch of shit went down in Greece when Turkey took over.

cant be compared to this by the way

[Shallow]

monkey, do u see me in any of these damn threaqds? do u see me railing against the injustices going on?


no

i dont give 2 shits about my Quran being desecrated because my entire community has been desecrated for 60 years. this means nothing and is putting the attention off where it needs to be. This thread- basically every post of mine- is made to rip apart stupid opinions being passed around


the latest being, "dont believe these reports, they come from our enemies"


last week, these fags said the reports were false. then they are proven wrong.

prediction: this is the work of low level soldiers with no higher up information.

thats the opinion thats gonna go around this place next week

Woah, chill out man. My post wasn't a response to you personally. It was just my take on the situation. You're thread was the newest so I posted it here. I no way was I trying to start a debate with you. but......

cant be compared to this by the way

Why not?

[Real American]

Who really gives a shit about any of this? In Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice Christianity or any other religion besides Islam. And I am supposed to be outraged because a Koran was dropped on the ground by a US solidier??? Why don't Muslims worry about all the mosques that these terrorists in Iraq are using to stage attacks, or being blown up recently in places like Pakistan. Just blatant double standards by Muslims. I am guessing that tens of thousands of idiots over in the Middle East will be protesting these new allegations against the US but will remain silent as usual on everything else I just said.

[Low Key]

cant be compared to this by the way

Yeah, I'm a little interested to know why you say this as well.

[Don Rizzle]

Who really gives a shit about any of this? In Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice Christianity or any other religion besides Islam. And I am supposed to be outraged because a Koran was dropped on the ground by a US solidier??? Why don't Muslims worry about all the mosques that these terrorists in Iraq are using to stage attacks, or being blown up recently in places like Pakistan. Just blatant double standards by Muslims. I am guessing that tens of thousands of idiots over in the Middle East will be protesting these new allegations against the US but will remain silent as usual on everything else I just said.

you missed the point, the white house lied about what went on and came down very heavy on newsweek for making the report, which had been reported many times else where. what the white house have done in the last 3 weeks is to breach the freedoms of the america's press and try to pull the blankett over everyones eyes with botched cover ups.

[Real American]

Who really gives a shit about any of this? In Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice Christianity or any other religion besides Islam. And I am supposed to be outraged because a Koran was dropped on the ground by a US solidier??? Why don't Muslims worry about all the mosques that these terrorists in Iraq are using to stage attacks, or being blown up recently in places like Pakistan. Just blatant double standards by Muslims. I am guessing that tens of thousands of idiots over in the Middle East will be protesting these new allegations against the US but will remain silent as usual on everything else I just said.

you missed the point, the white house lied about what went on and came down very heavy on newsweek for making the report, which had been reported many times else where. what the white house have done in the last 3 weeks is to breach the freedoms of the america's press and try to pull the blankett over everyones eyes with botched cover ups.

The White House never lied. They said a Koran was never flushed down the toilet, and it wasn't.

[King Tech Quadafi]

My bad shallow, i thought u were trying to get at me., but anyways.....


i said that the comparison is not valid because the United States should be held to a higher standard than say the fuckin Taliban, or the Ottoman empire of 300 years ago.

I mean uneducated backwards ignorant people regardless of faith will always be intolerant of others\, i accept this fully. (ex. Taliban, Trauma etc etc)

However, the United States is not a christain nation. It is secular. It is supposedly democratic and respectful of human rights. It is the richest and most powerful nation in the history of the world. The fact that the US has to disrespect the Quran in order to further humiliate 400 dirt poor Pakis, Arabs and Afghans says alot about how the US feels about Islam. It proves they're out to take out our faith, and thus, I hope 70 more 9/11s happen.

I mean, it BOGGLES MY MIND, that this fuckin govt can start damn near every conflict in the world, then try to solve them and in the process drag an already humiliated people through the mud again. It reveals their intentions.

300 years ago, conflict between Muslims and Christains were just that, conflicts between muslims and christains. Intolerance in todays muslim world is a result of lack of education.
what excuse does the americans have?

[Shallow]

My bad shallow, i thought u were trying to get at me., but anyways.....


i said that the comparison is not valid because the United States should be held to a higher standard than say the fuckin Taliban, or the Ottoman empire of 300 years ago.

I mean uneducated backwards ignorant people regardless of faith will always be intolerant of others\, i accept this fully. (ex. Taliban, Trauma etc etc)

However, the United States is not a christain nation. It is secular. It is supposedly democratic and respectful of human rights. It is the richest and most powerful nation in the history of the world. The fact that the US has to disrespect the Quran in order to further humiliate 400 dirt poor Pakis, Arabs and Afghans says alot about how the US feels about Islam. It proves they're out to take out our faith, and thus, I hope 70 more 9/11s happen.

I mean, it BOGGLES MY MIND, that this fuckin govt can start damn near every conflict in the world, then try to solve them and in the process drag an already humiliated people through the mud again. It reveals their intentions.

300 years ago, conflict between Muslims and Christains were just that, conflicts between muslims and christains. Intolerance in todays muslim world is a result of lack of education.
what excuse does the americans have?

US is secular? Someone should tell Bush and all the dodos that voted for him that, because I don't think they know. The US is still about 80% Christain, and I'll bet the military is more than 80%. To a lot of these yokels that signed up to fight, it is Christians vs Muslims, and if you don't think a lot of these guys suffer from lack of education about the world then you need to think again. Ask the average southerener military soldier to name 3 Canadian cities,or what the major religions in Canada are and they'll have no clue. Canada is just North. I can only imagine what they'd say if you asked them about the Islamic world.

Now if the US Government was giving orders to burn Qurans then I'd get where you're coming fom, but it's more a case of ignorant kids startng shit, which happens everywhere. That 70 more 9/11s comment is a little harsh. I don't wish those kind of attacks on any nation at any time. I know that shit like that goes down in warzone coutries all the time, but that doesn't make it right.

[Ant]

Anyone seen the recent kingdom of heaven movie? gives a fictionalized account of how the jews lost jerusalem, but it does a good job of showing the foolishness of both sides of the islam vs. christianity dispute...

The whole concept that the battle between the US and terrorism is a fight between good and evil is foolishness.  People claim I have double standards often because I expect more out of my own country than I do from a 3rd world nation.  Maybe thats the case, but I don't think its unreasonable to expect a lot from a country that is considered by many to be the best and most poweful in the world.  If people stepped back a bit, and let go of their egos instead of always trying to arrogantly assert their own worldview is perfect we could have prosecuted this whole thing a lot more intelligently, but instead we behaved with only slightly more intelligence than a 3rd world country. 

We want to be a beacon of democracy, but we have the perhaps the most childish political discourse of any developed country.  Instead of letting go of ego and working to make things better this country argues politics like a 15 yr old throwing a fit while defending his favorite baseball team against a critic.  And the reality of all this becomes more clear to a willing observer every time an issue like this gains national attention and you watch both sides argue like bigotted fools and continue to refuse to admit error even when it becomes clear beyond a doubt that their opinions were mistaken.

[Low Key]

My bad shallow, i thought u were trying to get at me., but anyways.....


i said that the comparison is not valid because the United States should be held to a higher standard than say the fuckin Taliban, or the Ottoman empire of 300 years ago.

I mean uneducated backwards ignorant people regardless of faith will always be intolerant of others\, i accept this fully. (ex. Taliban, Trauma etc etc)

However, the United States is not a christain nation. It is secular. It is supposedly democratic and respectful of human rights. It is the richest and most powerful nation in the history of the world. The fact that the US has to disrespect the Quran in order to further humiliate 400 dirt poor Pakis, Arabs and Afghans says alot about how the US feels about Islam. It proves they're out to take out our faith, and thus, I hope 70 more 9/11s happen.

I mean, it BOGGLES MY MIND, that this fuckin govt can start damn near every conflict in the world, then try to solve them and in the process drag an already humiliated people through the mud again. It reveals their intentions.

300 years ago, conflict between Muslims and Christains were just that, conflicts between muslims and christains. Intolerance in todays muslim world is a result of lack of education.
what excuse does the americans have?

US is secular? Someone should tell Bush and all the dodos that voted for him that, because I don't think they know. The US is still about 80% Christain, and I'll bet the military is more than 80%. To a lot of these yokels that signed up to fight, it is Christians vs Muslims, and if you don't think a lot of these guys suffer from lack of education about the world then you need to think again. Ask the average southerener military soldier to name 3 Canadian cities,or what the major religions in Canada are and they'll have no clue. Canada is just North. I can only imagine what they'd say if you asked them about the Islamic world.

Now if the US Government was giving orders to burn Qurans then I'd get where you're coming fom, but it's more a case of ignorant kids startng shit, which happens everywhere. That 70 more 9/11s comment is a little harsh. I don't wish those kind of attacks on any nation at any time. I know that shit like that goes down in warzone coutries all the time, but that doesn't make it right.

You are very correct Shallow. I had a roommate who is in the reserves and he is so christian it's scary. And he's pretty racist too. I can't say that I'm not racist just a little bit (towards everyone), but I'd rather see the world just living than being wartorn. I am a laid back type of guy and racism just brings drama.

And hoping 70 more 9/11s happen is just ignorant. I don't think American soldiers were in Iraq like they are now until 9/11 actually happened, so anything the soldiers want to do to the Quran (aside from burning, and certain types of desecration), I believe they should be able to do. Tearing pages out of it might be going a little far, but I'm not over there getting shot at because some uneducated dumb ass doesn't want the people of the western world in their town. To me, any religion is cultish and petty. I usually don't express that because others are different and I respect that. And let me put it this way to you...okay, so you have gone in and taken over, but you find the town is poor, they have nothing to bargain with and you want some answers, what do you do? You utilize what the people over there cherish the most. That is how interrogation works and the Quran in the bargaining chip. You don't see the American government going on TV beheading people, do you? They would be in such deep shit with the rest of the world, but a month after the insurgents do it twice, no one remembers. That is how the insurgents interrogate.

The faster America can get in there and rebuild, the faster they will leave, but I guess that is just too simple for even uneducated people in a third world country to understand.

[Real American]

It proves they're out to take out our faith, and thus, I hope 70 more 9/11s happen.

Tech wants thousands  more innocent Americans to die because some US soldier stepped on the Koran (a soldier who was relieved of his duties after the incident).

Don't you just love the reasoning of Muslims....

[Real American]

To a lot of these yokels that signed up to fight, it is Christians vs Muslims, and if you don't think a lot of these guys suffer from lack of education about the world then you need to think again. Ask the average southerener military soldier to name 3 Canadian cities,or what the major religions in Canada are and they'll have no clue. Canada is just North. I can only imagine what they'd say if you asked them about the Islamic world.

Who the hell are you calling a yokel? I want to know just exactly how many US military members and southerners you know to make these statements.

So where do you get your information from, idiot?