So Who Do You All Think Will Be The 08' Republican Presidential Candidate?

[TraceOneInfinite]

I think John McCain is going to be up there. 

He's leading the polls they release in the news media.  He's an American war hero, and some believe he is more honest and credible, and they say that since he's been a POW in the past, he is more conscious of the realities of war, and less Hawkish.  He's not viewed as arrogant like Bush is. 

Infact, he was loved much more than Bush in the primaries for the 2,000 election, but Rove masterminded some false hype about McCain that brought him down in the end.  (If anybody remembers what that line was they used against him post it here, I think it was something about his adopted children.  He had adopted a child from another continent and they claimed it was an illegitimate child or something like that, which wasn't true at all.)

Obviously, I wouldn't support John McCain or any of the Republican candidates (or any of the Democrat candidates most likely, except Dennis Kucinich, and deep down I like the Clinton family although I still wouldn't vote for Hillary) but I do think McCain is a step up from the Bush family, which isn't saying much.  Anyway, I just wanted to get everybody's opinion on who they think will be the top Republican candidate.

[Lincoln]

Yeah I agree, McCain has a good shot. However, I could see the GOP throwing a curveball with Rice as VP.

[Trauma-san]

That would be a devastating candidate, the republicans will likely rally behind ANYBODY, and McCain is the type of candidate who would even get dem votes.  Rice would be aok with me as a Vice President.  I like her more than McCain.  McCain's always been a little opportunistic for me. 

[Kal EL]

the best can. for Reps is Mccain, but if Rove can stay out of the fire he will want to use Rice and for a curve a latino candate to offset the dem. ticket Hillary and Obama.

[Javier]

Bill Frist

[Real American]

John McCain
Rudy Guliani
George Pataki
Milt Romney
There are a few other candidates

McCain might have a trouble rallying religious evangelicals the way Bush did though.

[J @ M @ L]

John McCain
Rudy Guliani
George Pataki
Milt Romney
There are a few other candidates

McCain might have a trouble rallying religious evangelicals the way Bush did though.

So McCain might not receive the votes of racist bigots? Sounds like a good thing to me.

[Trauma-san]

I'd prefer Rudy Guliani out of that list. 

[Real American]

 

So McCain might not receive the votes of racist bigots? Sounds like a good thing to me.

So religious Christians are racists?

Sounds to me like you are the bigot, not them.

[herpes]

I'd prefer Rudy Guliani out of that list. 

If rudy ever became president, canada here i come. Guliani is a piece of shit.

[J @ M @ L]

 

So McCain might not receive the votes of racist bigots? Sounds like a good thing to me.

So religious Christians are racists?

Sounds to me like you are the bigot, not them.

Yeah, I'm a bigot... here are some comments from your fellow "religious Christians" (see that's the difference... I don't consider these fucktards as representing the true Christian ideals and beliefs, you do... I have a different and much more positive view of Christianity)

Attack by Franklin Graham:
Franklin Graham is the son of Billy Graham -- arguably the best known Evangelical Christian leader in the U.S.

 2001-OCT: At the dedication of a chapel near Wilkesboro, NC in his parents' name, Graham is quoted as having expressed essentially the same views as he later did on NOV-16 (see below). He later issued a statement to the Charlotte Observer saying "It is not my calling to analyze Islam or any other religions, though I recognize that all religions have differences. In the past, I have expressed my concerns about the teachings of Islam regarding the treatment of women and the killing of non-Muslims or infidels." 1
 2001-NOV-16: According to MSNBC, Franklin Graham appeared on the NBC Nightly News, commenting on Islam. He allegedly said: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion." This statement is confusing because he seems to imply that Jews believe that Jesus is the son of God -- a belief that is contrary to historical Jewish belief. He continued: "I don’t believe this is a wonderful, peaceful religion. When you read the Koran and you read the verses from the Koran, it instructs the killing of the infidel, for those that are non-Muslim." When asked by NBC News to clarify his statement, Graham repeated his charge that Islam, as a whole, is an evil. "It wasn’t Methodists flying into those buildings, it wasn’t Lutherans. It was an attack on this country by people of the Islamic faith."  NBC news contacted Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and other Christian leaders. None would would comment on Graham’s attacks. Ken Woodward, Newsweek religion editor, said: "Obviously, Mr. Graham is tone deaf in this respect. He’s certainly not his father’s son in terms of discretion." 2 
 2001-NOV-19: On NOV-19, Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), sent Graham a letter stating, in part, "I would therefore respectfully request a meeting during which recognized Muslim scholars may offer you information about Islam, particularly Islam's stance on the rights of women and minorities, that is free of bias and distortions. At this time of national and international crisis, it is imperative that we come together as people of faith to promote inter-religious understanding and mutual respect." There has been no indication that he has responded to the request.
 2001-NOV-20:  In his NOV-20 column, conservative Chuck Baldwin commented: "The one bright light in all of this is Franklin Graham...As you can imagine, Mr. Graham has been vilified and demonized, not only by liberals in the media but also by cowardly Christians and conservatives. However, Franklin Graham has thus far demonstrated the kind of grit not seen in a long time on the national stage: he refuses to surrender or apologize for his convictions. God bless him! He is a breath of fresh air, and he gives me something for which to be thankful because the record shows that Christians and conservatives (not to mention the Constitution) have been Bush-whacked." 3
2002-AUG: Graham "said during an interview that Muslims hadn't sufficiently apologized for the terrorist attacks — and he challenged Muslim leaders to offer to help rebuild Lower Manhattan or compensate the families of victims to show they condemn terrorism." 4  He followed this with a series of remarks about Islam and Muslims as he promoted his new book: "The Name." In that book, he wrote that: "Islam — unlike Christianity — has among its basic teachings a deep intolerance for those who follow other faiths."
 2002-SEP: During an interview with Beliefnet.com, he said that after the terrorist attacks: "there was this hoo-rah around Islam being a peaceful religion — but then you start having suicide bombers, and people start saying, 'Wait a minute, something doesn't add up here.' " 4
 2002-OCT-28: ABCNEWS.com commented that the "Virginia-based Family Policy Network, encouraged members to 'thank Franklin Graham for his faithfulness to Christ in the face of criticism.' " 4
 2003-APR-13: According to the Muslim Public Affairs Council, a "progressive voice for American Muslims," the Pentagon arranged to sponsor Franklin Grayam at a Good Friday prayer service on APR-18. Members of the Pentagon's chaplain group issued a letter stating that: "...we are deeply dismayed and disappointed that the Pentagon Chaplain's Office has invited Mr. Franklin Graham, an extremely controversial and divisive figure, to perform the Good Friday Services at the Pentagon on April 18, 2003. Mr. Graham has made recent public statements that are not only insulting and offensive to Muslims but also to those who espouse ecumenism among the faith groups. Mr. Graham's negative statements concerning Islam and Muslims, which he has never recanted, fly in the face of what we stand for as Americans. By sponsoring and promoting a visit to the Pentagon by an extreme fundamentalist like Mr. Graham, the Pentagon Chaplain's Office is sending a message that it and the Department of Defense condone public displays of attitudes and thoughts that contradict not only Department of Defense regulations but also the American ideal of religious tolerance. We hope and pray that the Pentagon Chaplain's Office will reconsider its invitation to Mr. Graham and instead invite a more inclusive and honorable Christian clergyman to perform the Good Friday Services." 5



Attack by William F. Buckley:
Buckley has claimed that the wave of international terrorism was not due to radical, extreme Fundamentalist Muslims. Rather, he blames "well-known atheists who live un-Muslim lives and have persecuted unto death the Muslim movements in their countries." 6 He included, as Atheists:

 Yasser Arafat, chairperson of the Palestine Liberation Organization, 
 Saddam Hussein, dictator of Iraq, and 
 The Assad family, controllers of Syria. 

Buckley claims that "The principal sponsors of the terrorists are not religious fanatics," as believed by many individuals and groups worldwide. They are actually Atheists.

AANEWS commented that an " 'atheist' is a term used in Middle Eastern discourse to often refer to those who believe in religions other than the peculiar and discreet faith of the individual making the accusation.  A Shi'ite may use the term against a Christian or Jew (and perhaps even vice versa!).  Regimes that do not reflect a 'correct' theocratic bent, or have secular components -- such as women not being required in Iraq to wear a burqa -- can lead to misuse of the term.  In the Middle East alphabet soup of labels and descriptions, 'atheist' means different things to different speakers.  A 'secularist' -- or an individual accused of being one -- can easily be branded an 'atheist' without much need for further explanation..."

"AANEWS concludes: "A 'secularist' or individual who embraces a different religion, especially one who navigates the treacherous political waters of the Middle East though, is not automatically an 'atheist.'  If anything, the shabby charge serves to divert us from a blatant truth -- that the violence of September 11 was the result, in part, of religious fervor, and the designs of those who would transform the earth into a theocracy." 7

Assigning the term "Atheist" to persons of another religion has a long history. The Pagans accused the Christians during the 1st and 2nd centuries CE of being Atheists because they believed in only one God.



Attack by Benny Hinn:
Benny Hinn proclaimed to thousands of Christians at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, TX that "We are on God's side. This is not a war between Arabs and Jews. It's a war between God and the devil." Several conservative Christian ministers from the Dallas area, who shared the podium, clapped and nodded their approval. Later, a few of them said that the line between Christians and Muslims is the difference between good and evil.

Most of the Dallas pastors who joined Benny Hinn on the stage refused to be interviewed or to respond to faxed questions asking whether they endorsed Hinn's remarks. However, some religious leaders reacted to the speech:

 Ibrahim Hooper, spokesperson for the Dallas chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) was distressed. He said: "The demonizing of Islam. The actual call for the elimination of Islam. It's disturbing."
 Ronald Flowers, a religion professor at Texas Christian University in Fort Worth said that the [religious] shift to the right among Christians can be traced to the same political drift toward conservatism. He said: "It's a search for certainty in an uncertain world. The fact that Muslims and Christians worship the same God seems to escape these people."
 J. Don George, senior pastor of Calvary Temple in Irving, TX, accompanied Hinn on stage. He said: "Our faith is in Jesus Christ, and the Muslim community does not accept Jesus and God, and therefore we're at odds with Muslims....Any religion or ideology that refuses to acknowledge the lordship of Jesus Christ could be typified as a war against Satan." 
 Paul Mills, pastor of Arlington Faith Chapel,  said that Muslims would find Hinn's statement inappropriate. However, their complaints would be irrelevant because Jesus is the only way to heaven. He said: "The religion [of Islam] is a false religion as far as we believe."
 Brent Arterbury, pastor of Life Church in Haltom City, is sometimes critical with Hinn, especially over his alleged refusal to be financially accountable. But Arterbury said that he agrees that Christians are engaged in a spiritual war. He said: "From a biblical standpoint, I have to agree that there is good and there is evil. From that standpoint, I believe what he said is in line with what the Scriptures say." He added that Islam "is a very destructive type of faith....They're a revengeful people....We as Christians don't despise the Muslims. We love them. We just don't like what they stand for."
 Dr. Nasir Ahmad, an imam with the Muslim American Society in Dallas. He said that Arterbury's comments are irresponsible and that his statement is untrue. He added that the nature of Islam is peace. Ahmad said: "In the Torah and the Bible you can pick out a sentence, pick out many things distasteful to even the adherents of that faith....At least I have the integrity to quote the [Christian] religion correctly." He added that "There are demigod leaders in politics, religion and education that play upon the blind emotions of the masses. He's playing on the emotions of the people. Those persons [Hinn preaches to] are kept in the dark and out of light of what's really going on."
 "Ike" Cowell, pastor of Grace Evangelical Methodist Church in Fort Worth, said one can expect that dialogue between Christians and Muslims would involve some difference of opinion but should involve some outreach and be based on mutual respect. He said: "I would not be combative myself. I would want there to be a dialogue, to hear what they have to say. All I know about [Muslims] is what I read or hear."



Attack by Pat Robertson:
Pat Robertson broadcast a message during his Christian Broadcasting Network news program on 2002-NOV-11. According to the media: "In his remarks, Christian preacher and conservative commentator Pat Robertson said Muslims were bent on exterminating Jews..." 8 Robertson is reported as saying: "Somehow I wish the Jews in America would wake up, open their eyes and read what is being said about them...This is worse than the Nazis...Adolf Hitler was bad, but what the Muslims want to do to the Jews is worse." In an apparent reaction to both Jewish and Muslim anti-hate groups, he said that those who had criticized him in the past -- people whom he called "so called doves" -- did not understand the situation. He continued: "If I say something that Islam is, you know, an erroneous religion, then I get criticized by the Anti-Defamation League. You just want to say: 'When are you going to open your eyes and see who your enemy is.' Those people want to destroy Jews.' " The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) is arguably the most prominent and active Jewish anti-hate agency.

On NOV-12, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) denounced Robertson's remarks as consisting of "lies, distortions and outright bigotry." CAIR Spokesperson Hodan Hassan said "It's a shame coming from someone who claims to be a man of the cloth...He is doing a lot more to increase tensions and maybe violence among different ethnicities and religions than sowing the seeds of peace." Referring to two passages from the Qur'an, she said that Robertson was using them "deceitfully." She continued: "It's outlandish and a total distortion." She noted that the Qur'an contains numerous calls for inter-faith harmony and demands that Muslims respect other religions.

[J @ M @ L]

How about Albert Mohler... President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary...

Christians should see The Center for Progressive Christianity, not as posing a threat to Christianity itself, but as exposing the basic hatred of biblical truth that drives those on the theological left.  Evangelical Christians should be aware of this organization, not because we should fear it's influence--it isn't likely to have much.  No, we should look to a group like this in order to understand how a course of theological revisionism inevitably heads in this direction.  Once the faith handed down by the Apostles is subjected to any process of "updating" for the sake of relevance, The Center for Progressive Christianity, or something quite like it, is never far behind.
-----

So it's not just Muslims... but they have hate Progressive Christians as well... now if I was as ignorant as you are, my question would be if Christianity teaches hate... but I'm smarter than you, which isn't saying much for me when I'm being compared to a Pollack...

[Machiavelli]

Nah, McCain will be to old to be president man....

I think these people have the best chance:

Rudy Guliani
Jeb Bush
or
Rice

[h cottie is bac-tive?]

       'Real American' you got served!

nobody with the last name Bush will win the presidential election

[Javier]

BILL FRIST