Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time
how can it be his greatest song if he doesnt even rap on it? seriously we need to start banning all the crackheads on this forumLMAO!
Don't waste your time
Don't waste your time
how can it be his greatest song if he doesnt even rap on it? seriously we need to start banning all the crackheads on this forum
and your talkin as far as production right?
Nah. Can't C Me is his best produced song.
a nigga wit a gun, the watcher and keep their heads ringing are all superior production wise and have no features.
the only thing ill agree with you on is the concept of east/west coast killaz.....it was a good idea to bridge the east and west, i wouldve really wanted to hear cube on that farreal though.
a nigga wit a gun, the watcher and keep their heads ringing are all superior production wise and have no features.
the only thing ill agree with you on is the concept of east/west coast killaz.....it was a good idea to bridge the east and west, i wouldve really wanted to hear cube on that farreal though.
Cube was actually completely against Dre trying to bridge the east and the west, and Cube said that publicly in inerviews....not surprising since this was being done when Cube was working on Bow Down, not to mention when Cube was beefing w/ BReal, who was on the song. Woulda been great though, no doubt.
Cube was actually completely against Dre trying to bridge the east and the west, and Cube said that publicly in inerviews....not surprising since this was being done when Cube was working on Bow Down, not to mention when Cube was beefing w/ BReal, who was on the song. Woulda been great though, no doubt.
Yep. A little hip-hop history for everyone, this was all back in summer of 96 when the Source was still the hip-hop "Bible". Well, Cube was on the cover of the Source throwing up the W and talking shit on the whole East Coast. Complaining that when he went to the East Coast the DJ's would never play West Coast Records, and also getting some early promotion for West Side Connection which would blow up late in the summer with "Bow Down".
So anyway, Dre comes on the cover of the Source in mid-summer, and he's doing the opposite of Cube, Dre is talking about taking the high road, maturity, leaving Death Row; and the article is almost prophetic, because Dre ended up getting out just in time before 2pac was killed, Suge went to jail, Snoop put out a subpar record, and everything fell apart.
I still have that Source issue with Dre on the cover. I would never sell it, it's the most classic of any magazine for me. Sometimes I look through it just to remember old times, and the way hip-hop used to be. You can read that thing cover to cover. It doesn't contain any "eye candy" or any sensationalism to sell magazine, it's a much more humble approach to the industry, the artists are chilling in regular clothes, talking about their lives and the music, less is more, it just covers the culture of hip-hop from A to Z. You get the feeling looking at it of the "good old days" when everything seemed so simple.
Let me go ahead and make some case for "East/West Coast Killaz". You kind of had to be into hip-hop at the time to really understand the significance of the song. Dre could of probably sold 4 million doing a record like Cube, talking shit about the East Coast; but Dre was a true visionary. He was really the first to go against the grain on a large scale like that. It really wasn't popular to do the stuff he was doing at the time, and the album sold much less than it was supposed to. So it was a daring step for Dre to take, but he ended up being the smart one.
The record also has sentimental value for me. Cause I see it as the last of the golden era of hip-hop. The video for the song had just came out around the time 2pac was murdered. I remember back then I was 14, and you would always want to be the first of your friends to discover the next big artist, or next big song that was going to come out; because this was before digital media took off. I remember I read the Source article with Dre talking about "East/West Coast Killaz" and how it was going to change the game, and the journalist interviewing Dre said that the song would singlehandedly bury the beef. I had a girlfriend at the time who moved back to her mom's house in another state at the end of the summer. I wrote her and I remember telling her I was listening to the song "East/West Coast Killaz". The song didn't really come out for another couple weeks, but I thought it was going to be so huge, that I wanted to show off by acting as if I had discovered it before anyone else (because I'd read about it in the Source interview).
^^^^ There's my case for the song. It's a lot of personal stuff. So I guess I should add that all the rappers come hott lyrics, I think it's Nas' best guest appearance verse, same with B-Real and RBX spits fire. I think KRS could have came a little harder, but the fact that he was even on the song helped make it memorable. The idea was to get two West Coast emcee's and two East Coast emcee's. The video was directed by a Hollywood director F. Gary Gray (Negotiator) and in the beggining Dre is having a meeting with people like Scarface (rapper from Texas) talking about how the Illuminati is trying to destory hip-hop, and how they need to unite the strongest forces from each coast... it gives it kind of a larger than life feel.
Props on your answer and well put. Can't really knock Cube or Dre for the routes they took. There are diplomats and revolutionaires so both took a different route as to how to get they point across. As far as the fabricated East/West beef, it did show alot of unity. I think it benefited the east more because it opened the door by Dre to work with more artists from the east. Cypress Hill was doing east west collabos years before, this track was just more on a bigger scale. West coast and East coast artists were collabing waaay before this but never on this big of scale was a unity track done before. Hell even 2pac had Meth and Red on his album before this track.
Props on your answer and well put. Can't really knock Cube or Dre for the routes they took. There are diplomats and revolutionaires so both took a different route as to how to get they point across. As far as the fabricated East/West beef, it did show alot of unity. I think it benefited the east more because it opened the door by Dre to work with more artists from the east. Cypress Hill was doing east west collabos years before, this track was just more on a bigger scale. West coast and East coast artists were collabing waaay before this but never on this big of scale was a unity track done before. Hell even 2pac had Meth and Red on his album before this track.
Ya, that's a good point about Red and Meth being on Pac's record. But it wasn't a statement record to unite the coasts. And really, I was into the East/West beef when I was a kid cause I wanted to see the West on top, so I supported Cube with what he was doing. But still, what's most important is credibility and being authentic, so if Dre felt like he didn't want to be a part of the beef, then I really respected him and looked up to him as a kid for going out on his own.
It does not have to be. 2pac had beef with particular artists. If his 1 Nation compilation would have ever dropped maybe the perception of 2pac having beef with the east would have been deaded. That is why I brought up a group like Cypress Hill doing Throw Your Hands In The Air remix with Redman, Erick Sermon, and Eiht. or House Of Pain back then working with Diamond D or Pete Rock. It may not have made headlines like Dre's track but it still shows unity. So to me that east/west bs was between a handful of artists with problems with each other that was trumped up by the media. I think Dre's song put it to the forefront and showed a big time unity between hip hop but it was going on before that. And it was only for 1 song. DJ Muggs took that a step further with his Soul Assassins compilations.
It does not have to be. 2pac had beef with particular artists. If his 1 Nation compilation would have ever dropped maybe the perception of 2pac having beef with the east would have been deaded. That is why I brought up a group like Cypress Hill doing Throw Your Hands In The Air remix with Redman, Erick Sermon, and Eiht. or House Of Pain back then working with Diamond D or Pete Rock. It may not have made headlines like Dre's track but it still shows unity. So to me that east/west bs was between a handful of artists with problems with each other that was trumped up by the media. I think Dre's song put it to the forefront and showed a big time unity between hip hop but it was going on before that. And it was only for 1 song. DJ Muggs took that a step further with his Soul Assassins compilations.
Fair enough. I'm not arguing your point, or trying to make it sound like Dre was the only one to do it. But you said that Muggs took it a step further by making a whole album, but Dre had a whole album, part of the significance of the Aftermath Compilation was that it had East and West coast artists on it. But yeah, Muggs deserves props, and I love his work he did with Dre that year for "Puppet Master".
Dre had 1 track with east coast artists. The rest of that compilation had his own artists.
Dre had 1 track with east coast artists. The rest of that compilation had his own artists.
Wasn't Shareef from the East Coast (Philly)?
Might have been but that compilation IMO was marketed more as Dre showcasing his new talent. the east/west track had more mainstream artists on it to show unity, but from what I remember about that compilation it was a majority of west coast acts.
Might have been but that compilation IMO was marketed more as Dre showcasing his new talent. the east/west track had more mainstream artists on it to show unity, but from what I remember about that compilation it was a majority of west coast acts.
If you listen to the intro to the album, and really throughout the album, you'll here talk about "This is for those that's trying to split the coasts". And the album was advertised as "We Don't Set Trip, We Set Trends". The theme was that they ain't tripping about coasts anymore, they were just trying to get together and make great music.
You have a good arguement. I think if the song blew up to levels of "G Thang" or "Dre Day", you'd have a very valid arguement. But you're absolutely right that it was a very pivotal moment at that time.
And sure, Pac had his 1 Nation thing going on, but Pac + BCC (which was never released, and BCC was not THAT well known at that time) doesn't touch Dre, Nas, KRS, B-Real, RBX at that point in time. 1 Nation could have been huge but the fact is that it didn't see the light of day. And the Soul Assassins stuff didn't garner that much attention.
East Coast / West Coast Killaz was a great statement that needed to be made at the time. But it also came at a time when Dre was really trying to find his niche in the game again. He was hell bent at separating himself from his Death Row sound, saying gangsta rap is dead, fuckin w/ R&B a llittle bit, talking about doing "ghetto metal", doing the tango in his videos, launching a new label, etc. And the Aftermath Compilation was largely viewed as flop for Dre standards at the time. How many of those artists remained w/ him after that dropped? So while ECWCK was a great track Dre hadn't quite mastered his new sound and while the song was gettin steady rotation, people weren't going bananas for it across the board.
So I'll have to disagree, but a very important song at that time.
You have a good arguement. I think if the song blew up to levels of "G Thang" or "Dre Day", you'd have a very valid arguement. But you're absolutely right that it was a very pivotal moment at that time.
And sure, Pac had his 1 Nation thing going on, but Pac + BCC (which was never released, and BCC was not THAT well known at that time) doesn't touch Dre, Nas, KRS, B-Real, RBX at that point in time. 1 Nation could have been huge but the fact is that it didn't see the light of day. And the Soul Assassins stuff didn't garner that much attention.
East Coast / West Coast Killaz was a great statement that needed to be made at the time. But it also came at a time when Dre was really trying to find his niche in the game again. He was hell bent at separating himself from his Death Row sound, saying gangsta rap is dead, fuckin w/ R&B a llittle bit, talking about doing "ghetto metal", doing the tango in his videos, launching a new label, etc. And the Aftermath Compilation was largely viewed as flop for Dre standards at the time. How many of those artists remained w/ him after that dropped? So while ECWCK was a great track Dre hadn't quite mastered his new sound and while the song was gettin steady rotation, people weren't going bananas for it across the board.
So I'll have to disagree, but a very important song at that time.
There never was a west / east beef, that was all media bullshit. There were two big issues at the time, Suge was pissed with Puffy for his buddy getting killed at a party which he thought it was Puffys people and then started the Source Awards beef, and then there was Pac and Biggie.
People who tried to make an east / west war were riding the media for some attention.
The Source's 5 Mic Albums
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Source_(magazine)#The_Source.27s_5_Mic_Albums.07UNIQ928a2c4699020ea-nowiki-00000004-QINU.071.07UNIQ928a2c4699020ea-nowiki-00000005-QINU.07
The "Record Report" is special feature in the publication. Journalists would judge albums by "mics". The Source "mics" are the equivalent to a star rating. The publication uses a rating system from one to "five mics." An album that is rated at four-and-a-half or five "mics" is considered by The Source to be a superior hip hop album. The avatar used to rate the albums The Source reviews is a hand gripping a microphone. The original albums granted the coveted 5 Mics award were Ice Cube "AmeriKKKas Most Wanted", Brand Nubian "One For All", A Tribe Called Quest "People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm", A Tribe Called Quest "The Low End Theory", Eric B and Rakim "Let The Rhythm Hit Em", De La Soul "De La Soul is Dead" and Nas "Illmatic". Over the first ten years or so of the magazine, the heralded "five mic" rating only applied to albums that were (and have held up over time to be) universally lauded hip hop albums. The complete list of 5 mic albums is below.
The Source's 5 Mic Albums
Run-D.M.C. by Run-D.M.C.
Radio by LL Cool J
Licensed to Ill by The Beastie Boys
Raising Hell by Run-D.M.C.
Criminal Minded by Boogie Down Productions
Paid in Full by Eric B. & Rakim
Long Live the Kane by Big Daddy Kane
By All Means Necessary by Boogie Down Productions
Strictly Business by EPMD
Straight Out the Jungle by The Jungle Brothers
Straight Outta Compton by N.W.A.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000003B6J.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back by Public Enemy
The Great Adventures of Slick Rick by Slick Rick
Critical Beatdown by Ultramagnetic MCs
No One Can Do It Better by The D.O.C.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002JN4.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
Grip It! On That Other Level by Geto Boys
People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm by A Tribe Called Quest
One For All by Brand Nubian
Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em by Eric B. & Rakim
AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted by Ice Cube
(http://ec1.images- amazon.com/images/I/41QWG98PGJL._AA240_.jpg)
Breaking Atoms by Main Source
The Low End Theory by A Tribe Called Quest
De La Soul Is Dead by De La Soul
Death Certificate by Ice Cube
(http://ec1.images- amazon.com/images/I/41EKC3BVYXL._AA240_.jpg)
The Chronic by Dr. Dre
(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005B1KA.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Doggystyle by Snoop Doggy Dogg
(http://www.thehiphopworld.com/image-files/snoop-doggy-dogg-doggystyle.jpg)
Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) by Wu-Tang Clan
Illmatic by Nas
Ready to Die by The Notorious B.I.G.
The Diary by Scarface
The Infamous by Mobb Deep
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx by Raekwon
Me Against the World by 2Pac
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CP5ESVGPL._AA240_.jpg)
The Score by The Fugees
Reasonable Doubt by Jay-Z
All Eyez on Me by 2Pac
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/416SNMHBW6L._AA240_.jpg)
Life After Death by The Notorious B.I.G.
Aquemini by Outkast
The Chronic 2001 by Dr. Dre
(http://www3.hmv.co.uk/hmv/Middle_Images/HMV/4904862.JPG)
Stillmatic by Nas
The Blueprint by Jay-Z
The Fix by Scarface
The Naked Truth by Lil KimThereīs only 9 west coast albums on that list
and 5 off them is produced by Dr.Dre.
Something is wrong........
I could be wrong because I stopped reading the Source after '93 and I know
they did an article revising some past ratings but that list from Wikipedia is laughable. The first ten albums listed came out before the Source even existed. I have all the issues up to '93 excluding the first two. I remember for a fact that The Ghetto Boys "Grip It" got like three and a half. A lot of those albums originally recieved four and a half or were not even reviewed at the time they came out. I just can't agree with a magazine going back and rewriting their own history, as they must have in a later issue. Otherwise Wikipedia has once again gotten the "facts" completely mixed up. They do more harm than help. But this argument/discussion is much needed so I'm glad I saw this thread.
they did an article revising some past ratings
I got The Source issue when they did it,wikipedia is on point this time.
They did it once and can do it again.
They should add 1/2-1 mic to every non east coast release and subtract 1/2-1 mic of every east coast release.
ThaI could be wrong because I stopped reading the Source after '93 and I know
they did an article revising some past ratings but that list from Wikipedia is laughable. The first ten albums listed came out before the Source even existed. I have all the issues up to '93 excluding the first two. I remember for a fact that The Ghetto Boys "Grip It" got like three and a half. A lot of those albums originally recieved four and a half or were not even reviewed at the time they came out. I just can't agree with a magazine going back and rewriting their own history, as they must have in a later issue. Otherwise Wikipedia has once again gotten the "facts" completely mixed up. They do more harm than help. But this argument/discussion is much needed so I'm glad I saw this thread.
they did an article revising some past ratings
I got The Source issue when they did it,wikipedia is on point this time.
They did it once and can do it again.
They should add 1/2-1 mic to every non east coast release and subtract 1/2-1 mic of every east coast release.
That shit makes me laugh. I would agree with you about adding and subtracting mics and all but that would mean that what the Source says about an album matters in any way to me. Like I said I know they did that article, I just think it's wack of them to not at least stand behind their journalism (whether I think it's wrong or not) and try to rewrite it. I agree that there should be more west coast in that list (Mac Dre "Rapper Gone Bad, King Tee "Act a Fool", WC & the MAAD Circle, and many others for example) however in the long run I couldn't ever let a magazine tell me what to consider a classic, I'll let my own ears do that. And this is in no way an attack on your post, like I said I like the info, I just don't agree with it.
I could be wrong because I stopped reading the Source after '93 and I know
they did an article revising some past ratings but that list from Wikipedia is laughable. The first ten albums listed came out before the Source even existed. I have all the issues up to '93 excluding the first two. I remember for a fact that The Ghetto Boys "Grip It" got like three and a half. A lot of those albums originally recieved four and a half or were not even reviewed at the time they came out. I just can't agree with a magazine going back and rewriting their own history, as they must have in a later issue. Otherwise Wikipedia has once again gotten the "facts" completely mixed up. They do more harm than help. But this argument/discussion is much needed so I'm glad I saw this thread.
they did an article revising some past ratings
I got The Source issue when they did it,wikipedia is on point this time.
They did it once and can do it again.
They should add 1/2-1 mic to every non east coast release and subtract 1/2-1 mic of every east coast release.
I could be wrong because I stopped reading the Source after '93 and I know
they did an article revising some past ratings but that list from Wikipedia is laughable. The first ten albums listed came out before the Source even existed. I have all the issues up to '93 excluding the first two. I remember for a fact that The Ghetto Boys "Grip It" got like three and a half. A lot of those albums originally recieved four and a half or were not even reviewed at the time they came out. I just can't agree with a magazine going back and rewriting their own history, as they must have in a later issue. Otherwise Wikipedia has once again gotten the "facts" completely mixed up. They do more harm than help. But this argument/discussion is much needed so I'm glad I saw this thread.
they did an article revising some past ratings
I got The Source issue when they did it,wikipedia is on point this time.
They did it once and can do it again.
They should add 1/2-1 mic to every non east coast release and subtract 1/2-1 mic of every east coast release.