West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Merovingian on November 30, 2006, 04:42:19 PM
-
In reality, the formed beings currently portrayed as both God and the Devil are creations of the human being, not vice versa. This can be shown quite simply by using as illustration the evolution of religion. Religion, as it turns out to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, is not a divine revelation from any god person who created everything and knows all. In actuality, religion is a construct that takes centuries and millennia to complete, beginning with various perceptions of the natural and supernatural worlds around us.
The first perception we have of the "supernatural hand of God" is elemental: the wind, the heat, the cold, the light, the dark, the rain, etc. Because the elements seem to have a mind of their own, human beings love to anthropomorphize them and give them human qualities. Thus, purely atmospheric phenomena come to be viewed as expressions of a humanlike entity with a mind of its own. We ascribe personality characteristics to the various entities we build up around the elements. For example, Zeus, the Greek sky-god father-figure, takes on a thunder-and-lighting personality.
This is how religion evolves. Although religous people may oppose this notion, all religion is basically mythology built upon limited human perceptions of what is in the universe, and not upon concrete and absolute truths. Absolute truth has no form; hence, whenever God is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth.
In looking at religion, you'll find around the globe is a core mythos based on atmospheric elements and planetary bodies or other natural forces with a variety of forms they take on. In places where the skin of the inhabitants is red, the god may have red skin, and where the skin is white, the god may have white skin, and so on. It is completely arbitrary and not based on actual fact.
What happens is that different groups of people--and there have been very many cultures and groups on this planet--bring their distinct interpretations of deity to each other, whether through friendly merger or violent conquest, the latter of which seems to be the norm. During this merger process, the predominant people will force their particular, ethnocentric, egocentric and gender-centric interpretation of deity upon the conquered peoples. At the same time, they will also either make the conquered deities into lesser gods, godmen, heroes or patriarchs in their own pantheon, or they will turn the conquered deity or deities into demons and devils.
-
Well, thank you. But isn't all of this rather obvious kicking-in-the-open-door information?
'Fear made the first gods'
-
This is how religion evolves. Although religous people may oppose this notion, all religion is basically mythology built upon limited human perceptions of what is in the universe, and not upon concrete and absolute truths. Absolute truth has no form; hence, whenever God is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth.
Clearly this guy is Euro-centric and has never humbled himself enough to study Islam. Because he made sweeping claims about "all religions" when Islam agree's with him entirely that "Absolute truth has no form; hence, whenever God is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth."
In Islam we learn the true concept of God which is explained clearly throughout the Qu'ran, check Surutal (Chapter) Iklas for example:
"Say Allah is The One
Allah the Eternal, Absolute
He Has No Son, Nor is He A Son
And THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM".
-
This is how religion evolves. Although religous people may oppose this notion, all religion is basically mythology built upon limited human perceptions of what is in the universe, and not upon concrete and absolute truths. Absolute truth has no form; hence, whenever God is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth.
Clearly this guy is Euro-centric and has never humbled himself enough to study Islam. Because he made sweeping claims about "all religions" when Islam agree's with him entirely that "Absolute truth has no form; hence, whenever God is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth."
In Islam we learn the true concept of God which is explained clearly throughout the Qu'ran, check Surutal (Chapter) Iklas for example:
"Say Allah is The One
Allah the Eternal, Absolute
He Has No Son, Nor is He A Son
And THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM".
When referring to your God source as "HIM", you are giving it form hence, it is human. So, whenever God is being portrayed as having form, it is not the Truth. You've totally missed the point.
As far as GOD....it's just a title for the source of all things created. And yes, I do acknowledge this source. After all, I am this source. That sounds very blasphemous and anti-everything to the typical Christian or Muslim mind. Thing is, I don't submit to the Christian's or Muslim's version of this source that they call GOD and Allah. Nor do I accept all of the Bible and Quran. I'm spiritually based and don't accept anything concerning my soul/spirit without question particually, when it has been forged and interpolated over the millinnea to serve the interests of power-hungry men. I may as well put my life in the hands of man by doing so.
-
When referring to your God source as "HIM", you are giving it form hence, it is human. So, whenever God is being portrayed as having form, it is not the Truth. You've totally missed the point.
As far as GOD....it's just a title for the source of all things created. And yes, I do acknowledge this source. After all, I am this source. That sounds very blasphemous and anti-everything to the typical Christian or Muslim mind. Thing is, I don't submit to the Christian's or Muslim's version of this source that they call GOD and Allah. Nor do I accept all of the Bible and Quran. I'm spiritually based and don't accept anything concerning my soul/spirit without question particually, when it has been forged and interpolated over the millinnea to serve the interests of power-hungry men. I may as well put my life in the hands of man by doing so.
Allah is not a person, place, thing, man, he, her, him, it. In the English language you don't use a noun over and over saying "God" this, "God" that but you place a he in it's place so it doesn't sound redundant.
-
dont bother getting in to it with infite (aka bryan). he's so put off and ashamed of his midwestern upbringing he'll stop at nothing to prove his allegiance to an institution not accepted by his fellow corn fed brother in kansas. the only thing youll get from him is copy/pasted blog rants from nutcase radical muslims :(
-
When referring to your God source as "HIM", you are giving it form hence, it is human. So, whenever God is being portrayed as having form, it is not the Truth. You've totally missed the point.
As far as GOD....it's just a title for the source of all things created. And yes, I do acknowledge this source. After all, I am this source. That sounds very blasphemous and anti-everything to the typical Christian or Muslim mind. Thing is, I don't submit to the Christian's or Muslim's version of this source that they call GOD and Allah. Nor do I accept all of the Bible and Quran. I'm spiritually based and don't accept anything concerning my soul/spirit without question particually, when it has been forged and interpolated over the millinnea to serve the interests of power-hungry men. I may as well put my life in the hands of man by doing so.
Allah is not a person, place, thing, man, he, her, him, it. In the English language you don't use a noun over and over saying "God" this, "God" that but you place a he in it's place so it doesn't sound redundant.
Allah is a book, so Merovingian's theory applies. Anything pertaining to Allah that is not in the Quran is considered wrong or untruthful in Islam. You cannot believe or have faith in anything that contradicts that book. Correct me if I'm wrong. Whether that book is true or not is not the question. The point is you define Allah or God by a noun, and that noun is the Quran, which is a book.
Merovingian, I am a Christian and it would appear that I have to take the Bible as absolute truth because according to how it is taught it was a council guided by the Holy Spirit that wrote that book as it is today. But I am not that blind in my faith. First I look at everything it says Jesus said and see what is in the other books that contradict what he said. So then I throw that out as man made bullshit for the time it was written. Then I look at what Jesus preached and see what I disagree with. Fortunately for my faith I have never read anything I disagree with morally, and everything not pertaining to morality, like eternal life, elgibility, etc is said so philosophically I can twist it to mean anything. Too many Christians take what Jesus said too literally, when you simplt cannot make it literal because it can mean so many things. Eternal life could be memory, or legacy. Heaven could be peace of mind. You can't 100% argue otherwise, like you can with "do not kill".
-
I believe you are slightly wrong and I am not posing as an expert on these matters but I have heard numerous islamic scholars say that you should not always strictly adhere to the quaran. That Allah intended for the individual to make their own interpretation of certain issues and that sometimes the individual was compelled to make their own choices and that the book itself only gave guidance.
-
I believe you are slightly wrong and I am not posing as an expert on these matters but I have heard numerous islamic scholars say that you should not always strictly adhere to the quaran. That Allah intended for the individual to make their own interpretation of certain issues and that sometimes the individual was compelled to make their own choices and that the book itself only gave guidance.
I'm not doubting you. It's just in my experience with Muslims they treat the Quran the bottom line. Maybe they're wong. Infinite, Nibs, Tech, whoever, do you go by the idea that the Quran can be dismissed in areas where it go against your personal morality?
-
(Shallow) - nibs, do you go by the idea that the Quran can be dismissed in areas where it go against your personal morality?
my contiued research into the origins of knowledge/religion have indicated to me that the qu'ran was not divinely inspired, but based on other works of men; specifically the bible.
the main point of contention i have found is in stories and symbolism that the bible plagiarized from kemetic and sumerian sources, that the qu'ran does not correct, but merely repeats as fact. citing people and events as real, when they are corruptions of concepts that were symbolic, and plagiarized in the old testament.
however, i don't see any harm in people choosing to believe in the bible or qu'ran if it benefits them and their lives.
also, these texts should be interpretted as a guide on how to think; thus a person should learn to think righteously and act righteously; and not superstitiously try to interpret a text.
the entire sufism sect in islam is based on this principle, and they would not put an interpretation of the qu'ran over their own personal enlightenment.
-
(Merovingian) - In looking at religion, you'll find around the globe is a core mythos based on atmospheric elements and planetary bodies or other natural forces with a variety of forms they take on. In places where the skin of the inhabitants is red, the god may have red skin, and where the skin is white, the god may have white skin, and so on. It is completely arbitrary and not based on actual fact.
actually, the original beliefs were that there was a spiritual aspect to everything, that the world was alive on a spiritual level, and that everything in nature, including man, followed the same divine plan of a creator. thus, studying nature revealed this plan, it was important to stay in tune with the cycles of nature (thus in tune with the plan), and the future can be learned by studying nature.
also, the original beliefs were that in previous, more enlightened, ages; lesser gods would incarnate as men on earth. lesser gods in these religions are equitable to the angels in the bible or qu'ran. that these divine spirits could incarnate on earth and lead and teach.
thus, lesser gods would have the human forms of their host populations. skin color at times would symbolically represent attributes in pictoral representations...etc.
-
The finite mind of man can have direct communication with Infinite Intelligence. When the conscious mind is working at an exceedingly rapid rate, as for example, when the conscious mind is stimulated through great focus, struggle, desire, mediation, enlightenment, etc, the finite mind can have communication with the Infinite Intelligence of Allah.
The Infinite Intelligence of Allah knows everything that is before us and behind us. We all have had visions in our own mind of doing something in the future, like we picture ourselves going to the store in the future, and what we might buy, and those things all happen like we had imagined them. This is a glimpse into the future at a smaller level.
The point being that the Prophets were in communication with Allah's Infinite Intelligence and through this they recieved "inspiration" and "revelation".
The Prophet Muhammad was of a highly enlightened conscience, and stimulated by a higher sense of struggle and purpose, and thus he was chosen to recieve "inspiration" and "revelation" from Allah. This is what the Qu'ran consists of.
-
I believe you are slightly wrong and I am not posing as an expert on these matters but I have heard numerous islamic scholars say that you should not always strictly adhere to the quaran. That Allah intended for the individual to make their own interpretation of certain issues and that sometimes the individual was compelled to make their own choices and that the book itself only gave guidance.
That is correct. A Muslim does not neccasarily believe that "everything" is in the Qu'ran, although the Qu'ran does definitely set the giudelines. Many thoughts, idea's, actions can not be transmuted through mere words. Therefore, the Qu'ran is not the ONLY source of knowledge, although it is the highest source of knowledge and offers an analysis on all things. It gives us our parameters for a believe system in which the creation is in submission to the Creator. And like Nibs said the Sufi sect of Islam would not put interpretation over their own spiritual enlightenment.
-
the main point of contention i have found is in stories and symbolism that the bible plagiarized from kemetic and sumerian sources, that the qu'ran does not correct, but merely repeats as fact. citing people and events as real, when they are corruptions of concepts that were symbolic, and plagiarized in the old testament.
This should not be a point of contention because the Qu'ran itself mentions that the stories are not all literal in meaning, but stories of old passed down. Therefore, belief in Islam is not contigent and does not hinge on believing in any of the stories that may have origionally been offered by kemetic and sumerian sources. This verse offers a clear explanation of the Islamic position on this issue...
Qu'ran verse 3:7
"(Allah) sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except Allah and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed."
-
the main point of contention i have found is in stories and symbolism that the bible plagiarized from kemetic and sumerian sources, that the qu'ran does not correct, but merely repeats as fact.
(Hajj Abdul-Infinite) - This should not be a point of contention because the Qu'ran itself mentions that the stories are not all literal in meaning, but stories of old passed down.
it's a point of contention of the qu'ran destroys the original symbolism; which it does in many circumstances.
i don't see a need to argue this.
in terms of islam, i feel they have correctly preserved the wudu/ablution rituals and also solar alignment while praying. those aspects i continue to incorporate into my spiritual practices.
in terms of the spiritual philosophy/understanding/practices; and the theology; my studies have led me elsewhere.
-
This should not be a point of contention because the Qu'ran itself mentions that the stories are not all literal in meaning, but stories of old passed down. Therefore, belief in Islam is not contigent and does not hinge on believing in any of the stories that may have origionally been offered by kemetic and sumerian sources. This verse offers a clear explanation of the Islamic position on this issue...
Qu'ran verse 3:7
"(Allah) sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except Allah and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed."
Nope, wrong. That's not what it says at all, Bryan. Those are coded terms that only GODS can understand. Here is what that verse really says:
"Allah sends you the scriptures, detailing the evils of the white devil - his crimes against humanity, his origin at the hands of Yakub, the very essence of his nature - so that you can use them appropriately. Those who have doubt will mis-interpret the ambiguity of these verses to mean equality and love between races, but this is not possible. Slay the white devil as you see him, and show him no mercy, for he deserves none."
You don't understand - this religion you follow is a lie. The Qur'an is a blueprint for a worldwide battle strategy to re-conquer the Earth for the Original Man.
-
(Almighty Blackman) - You don't understand - this religion you follow is a lie. The Qur'an is a blueprint for a worldwide battle strategy to re-conquer the Earth for the Original Man.
it is you that don't understand.
the qu'ranic doctrine was developed to enslave the original man, and rob him of his power. stripping the original man of his original religion and symbolism that was practices at the height of the black man's civlilzation, which was in kemet.
the original man in america was fooled into thinking islam was his religion; look what ultimately has happened. the majority of "black muslims" have disregarded the teachings of the honorable elijah muhammad, and embraced sunni islam. the very mechanism that was intended to empower the original man with knowledge was twisted and used against him...again...as it was used across africa originally.
your "knowledge" undermines the black man...
-
it is you that don't understand.
the qu'ranic doctrine was developed to enslave the original man, and rob him of his power. stripping the original man of his original religion and symbolism that was practices at the height of the black man's civlilzation, which was in kemet.
the original man in america was fooled into thinking islam was his religion; look what ultimately has happened. the majority of "black muslims" have disregarded the teachings of the honorable elijah muhammad, and embraced sunni islam. the very mechanism that was intended to empower the original man with knowledge was twisted and used against him...again...as it was used across africa originally.
your "knowledge" undermines the black man...
Elijah Muhammad taught that the devil must be cleansed from the face of the Earth.
Qur'anic doctrine as Sunni and Shia Islam interpret it is nothing but some dune coon bullshit. But trust me, the Qur'an is not about this bullshit of "submission to the creator". It is a document of history and enlightenment that Allah wanted Blackman to have. That way, we know our enemy.
-
(Almighty Blackman) - Elijah Muhammad taught that the devil must be cleansed from the face of the Earth.
actually he taught separation, primarily.
(Almighty Blackman) - Qur'anic doctrine as Sunni and Shia Islam interpret it is nothing but some dune coon bullshit.
you didn't mention sufism. sufism is legitimate, right?
(Almighty Blackman) - But trust me, the Qur'an is not about this bullshit of "submission to the creator". It is a document of history and enlightenment that Allah wanted Blackman to have. That way, we know our enemy.
in terms of interpretation, who is taking the 'L' here? all of muslim africa is basically sunni. the majority of black america is sunni. allah is not getting his wish as the blackman has the interpretation you are opposed to. so who is taking the 'L' here?
sunni's and shias are quick to point out that their god is the same as the judeo-christian god. elijah muhammad clearly states that the judeo-christian god is a mystery god that does not exist. that europeans (greeks) created the mystery god.
thus, who is winning, in terms of islam, right now? the black man that has accepted islam has essentially accepted an interpretation no different than judiasm or christianity...
-
actually he taught separation, primarily.
And killing crackers. Buck tha devil, buck tha devil.
you didn't mention sufism. sufism is legitimate, right?
Nope. More bullshit. If I don't say it's OK, it's not OK.
in terms of interpretation, who is taking the 'L' here? all of muslim africa is basically sunni. the majority of black america is sunni. allah is not getting his wish as the blackman has the interpretation you are opposed to. so who is taking the 'L' here?
sunni's and shias are quick to point out that their god is the same as the judeo-christian god. elijah muhammad clearly states that the judeo-christian god is a mystery god that does not exist. that europeans (greeks) created the mystery god.
thus, who is winning, in terms of islam, right now? the black man that has accepted islam has essentially accepted an interpretation no different than judiasm or christianity...
Do not worry. Eventually, they will all be emancipated. I am a Poor Righteous Teacher; it is my job to educate my brothers so that they can be emancipated from the devil's mental slavery. I am, after all, one of the enlightened 5%. But more will come, don't worry. And when they do, the revolution shall begin, and the devil shall bow before us.
Anyway, off to polish the MAC-10...
-
thanks for clearing that up.
i am going to polish up my mac-10, and i'll wait for your signal...