West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: teecee on May 30, 2010, 11:21:18 AM
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
Lebron is the most skilled but he's got a long way to go to be the type of closer Kobe is.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
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Obviously he can't put up those numbers against the Celtics. It's theoretically impossible. ;)
Suns D vs. Celtics D - need I say more?
Fisher is gonna look so fucking old in the Finals, I wonder if he will be called out for it heavily or if everybody bites his tongue because hsi daughter is sick.
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
Come back when LeBron actually wins something for his team and not just for himself. Its a team sport for a reason.
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lebron shouldnt even be in the discussion of kobe and MJ yea lebron is real skilled and everything and has his INDIVIDUAL awards thats the reason he doesnt have any rings cuz its all bout him it is a team sport theres the old sayin THERES NO I IN TEAM it takes an individual to win a game but it takes a team to win a championship
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
Its a team sport for a reason.
my thoughts exactly, which is why i scratch my head when people say "Kobe >>> 'somebody who isn't on such a superior team'...because of ring differential.". :eh:
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Fisher is gonna look so fucking old in the Finals, I wonder if he will be called out for it heavily
although Rondo isn't the scorer D.Williams is, he's the best PG in the league
Fisher has been the starter against R.Westbrook, D.Williams, and S.Nash
each of those series you could say how bad of a matchup it is for the Lakers
hasn't been a problem thus far... why would they be scared of Rondo?
and haven't you been watching the playoffs? who cares if the Suns d is weak
Fisher scoring 21 pts, anyone will take that in WCF game
he hasn't done bad yet in this postseason, I wish to think you could put your hate for LA aside and look @ it from an analyst view
you sound like that hater at my job that I copped $25 off of yesterday, making guarantee that PHX would win Game 6, what an asshole
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So I don't look at it from an analyst point of view, because I think Fisher will look old? :D
Fisher got abused on the defensive end all the time... it hasn't been as funny as last year against Brooks yet, but he still got abused by every Starting PG he had against him. Even Dragic abused him.
Hasn't been a problem? LOL. Yeah, Lakers still won the series. Maybe rather because Kobe, Gasol, Artest and Odom are all pretty good players, not because of Fisher locking his men up...
Edit: And if you wanna get analytical, I could tell you that Fisher has more problems with penetration than with shooters. Rondo is obviously no shooter. He can penetrate past Fisher at will, which is when someone else will have to help or give Rondo an easy lay-up, which is when Rondo can feed Allen for the open 3, Garnett for the open 18-footer or give Pierce more space to create his own shot.
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So I don't look at it from an analyst point of view, because I think Fisher will look old? :D
Fisher got abused on the defensive end all the time... it hasn't been as funny as last year against Brooks yet, but he still got abused by every Starting PG he had against him. Even Dragic abused him.
Hasn't been a problem? LOL. Yeah, Lakers still won the series. Maybe rather because Kobe, Gasol, Artest and Odom are all pretty good players, not because of Fisher locking his men up...
they're 12-4 in the playoffs, no it hasn't been a problem
wow you're saying Kobe, Gasol, Artest & Odom are better than Fisher? thanks for the heads up
what does "got" abused on the D-end have to do with so far in these playoffs?
your putting words in my mouth, saying I think Fisher is gonna stop Rondo and has "stopped" these PG's
I could say "KG is old as fuck man, blah blah he's gonna get killed" but I won't because he plays team ball
they know Rondo is gonna do what he does.... get with the program prick boy johnson god damnit
and another thing, I live in L.A. and there are plenty haters like you, even some friends of mine, people at work, etc.
Laker Haters looking at the game as analysts is impossible
especially some I know that have said they'd rather have Rasheed Wallace playing well on their team than Pau Gasol
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You live in LA? That's great. I'm very happy for you.
You're going through a tough time, huh? Everybody hating and shit.
Sorry.
Maybe I got carried away.
Fisher still will look old in the Finals. Why is that comment classified as brainless hating? Lakers can still win it obviously.
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I'm making a point that there are shitheads like you all over the world, even the spot where it's happening
.... yea, yea... Lakers can still win, yea, you're right bro
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LMAO where's the 5 MVP awards and 0 NBA Finals losses?
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
Kobe has already broken more records than most of those players.
a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LMAO where's the 5 MVP awards and 0 NBA Finals losses?
The MVP award is a popularity contest...Nash has more MVPs than Kobe as well. you wouldn't say he's better than Kobe...or would you? LOL.
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BROKEN MORE RECORDS? like what?
11 titles? 3 MVP's in a row? 6 MVPs? 39,000 points? 100 points? 6 NBA Finals MVPs? a season averaging a triple double?
what record does Kobe have that is more important than these?
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BROKEN MORE RECORDS? like what?
11 titles? 3 MVP's in a row? 6 MVPs? 39,000 points? 100 points? 6 NBA Finals MVPs? a season averaging a triple double?
what record does Kobe have that is more important than these?
Kobe has scored more career points and playoff points than most of those players and has more playoff wins, as well... and if he wins his 5th title this year, he will place third on that list, as far as rings goes, with a chance to move ahead...also, only person to score more points in a game on that list=Wilt The Stilt. Not even Jordan could score like Kobe can when he's on top of his game 8)
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1-kobe has also played during a time where the first round of the playoffs was extended to 7 games instead of being best of 5
2-jordan was busy winning 6 titles (and would have won 8 straight if he didn't retire) to score 100 poiints
3-many people will always look at it as "Kobe could never win a ring on his own, until David Stern let LA rape Memphis in a trade" :D
ya boy hasn't even passed ringless Karl Malone in my book yet
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1-kobe has also played during a time where the first round of the playoffs was extended to 7 games instead of being best of 5
2-jordan was busy winning 6 titles (and would have won 8 straight if he didn't retire) to score 100 poiints
3-many people will always look at it as "Kobe could never win a ring on his own, until David Stern let LA rape Memphis in a trade" :D
ya boy hasn't even passed ringless Karl Malone in my book yet
LOL...great excuses. 1 and 2 mean nothing, and 3 is a joke all in itself. "Kobe can never won a ring on his own"...and who on that list did?
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BROKEN MORE RECORDS? like what?
11 titles? 3 MVP's in a row? 6 MVPs? 39,000 points? 100 points? 6 NBA Finals MVPs? a season averaging a triple double?
what record does Kobe have that is more important than these?
Kobe has scored more career points and playoff points than most of those players and has more playoff wins, as well... and if he wins his 5th title this year, he will place third on that list, as far as rings goes, with a chance to move ahead...also, only person to score more points in a game on that list=Wilt The Stilt. Not even Jordan could score like Kobe can when he's on top of his game 8)
Instead, Jordan would put up 63 in a playoff game against the best defense in the league at the time, not th shitta ass raptors in a meaningless game!
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
Fuck yourt semantics NIK. "At the top o fhis game" blh blah...bottom line is Jordan was always at the top of his game, while Kobe has been quite inconsistent. In the end, Kobe will likely end up with the most points of all time 9until LBJ pases him), and likely 6 titlse (3 playoff MVP"S)...his longevity beats Jordan, but that will be the only thing...
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
lol Kobe is still struggling to crack the top ten. The reason why Jordan is so hard to ever top is because every single year....Jordan was the best player in the league. There was absolutely NO debating it. Which is why the league is CONSTANTLY trying to build up a player as the next Jordan. Kobe has never ONCE been the clearcut BEST in the league. He is always amongst a group of great players. He has had moments where he was the best....so has LeBron....so has Duncan....etc.
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
Kobe has already broken more records than most of those players.
a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LMAO where's the 5 MVP awards and 0 NBA Finals losses?
The MVP award is a popularity contest...Nash has more MVPs than Kobe as well. you wouldn't say he's better than Kobe...or would you? LOL.
Although Nash DID deserve the awards. The MVP award is about who is the most valueable to their team that year. You can argue every year basically who you think should win. But you cant really say Nash didnt deserve those. Not without accepting the argument that Kobe didnt deserve his.
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
Kobe has already broken more records than most of those players.
a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LMAO where's the 5 MVP awards and 0 NBA Finals losses?
The MVP award is a popularity contest...Nash has more MVPs than Kobe as well. you wouldn't say he's better than Kobe...or would you? LOL.
Although Nash DID deserve the awards. The MVP award is about who is the most valueable to their team that year. You can argue every year basically who you think should win. But you cant really say Nash didnt deserve those. Not without accepting the argument that Kobe didnt deserve his.
NIK has only recently felt it's been a popularity contest; the last two years.
wonder why... ;D
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
lol Kobe is still struggling to crack the top ten. The reason why Jordan is so hard to ever top is because every single year....Jordan was the best player in the league. There was absolutely NO debating it. Which is why the league is CONSTANTLY trying to build up a player as the next Jordan. Kobe has never ONCE been the clearcut BEST in the league. He is always amongst a group of great players. He has had moments where he was the best....so has LeBron....so has Duncan....etc.
A lot of people will argue for Lebron today but I still say Kobe is # 1. But I think he was definitely the clear cut best player those two years Nash won the MVP.
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
lol Kobe is still struggling to crack the top ten. The reason why Jordan is so hard to ever top is because every single year....Jordan was the best player in the league. There was absolutely NO debating it. Which is why the league is CONSTANTLY trying to build up a player as the next Jordan. Kobe has never ONCE been the clearcut BEST in the league. He is always amongst a group of great players. He has had moments where he was the best....so has LeBron....so has Duncan....etc.
A lot of people will argue for Lebron today but I still say Kobe is # 1. But I think he was definitely the clear cut best player those two years Nash won the MVP.
You think KOBE was the clearcut best player the two years Nash won the MVP??
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Jordan never had to play with a dominant figure like Shaq...don't penalize Kobe and his greatness just because he was fortunate enough to be a focal point on one of the greatest teams in NBA history.
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
Lebron is the most skilled but he's got a long way to go to be the type of closer Kobe is.
the most skilled? what game you watching hahahaha, he's the most athletic and has the best physical gifts, but most skilled far from it, that muthafucca's jump shot is type garbage,his post moves very sub par, his footwork is nowhere near kobe's or tim duncans, stop drinking the stern and nba flavor aid they want to that equal to be the face of the league,but instead of it happening naturally like jordans progression they are telling you this guy is everything and it's not true just yet yell
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
lol Kobe is still struggling to crack the top ten. The reason why Jordan is so hard to ever top is because every single year....Jordan was the best player in the league. There was absolutely NO debating it. Which is why the league is CONSTANTLY trying to build up a player as the next Jordan. Kobe has never ONCE been the clearcut BEST in the league. He is always amongst a group of great players. He has had moments where he was the best....so has LeBron....so has Duncan....etc.
A lot of people will argue for Lebron today but I still say Kobe is # 1. But I think he was definitely the clear cut best player those two years Nash won the MVP.
You think KOBE was the clearcut best player the two years Nash won the MVP??
Yes...and he was the clear-cut best. The year Kobe scored 81, many had already argued that he surpassed Jordan as far as skill goes...But you're right, Kobe wasn't ALWAYS the clear-cut best, just like Jordan wasn't always the clear-cut best. Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won his first title...up until the 90s, Jordan was NOT considered the best. When Kobe wins the title again this year, it'll once again become apparent to all the fickle NBA fans who the best obviously really is...PeACe
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^LOL, surprise, surprise the year he's all alone & was considered a horrible teammate, being a ballhog, he dropped 81. :laugh:
& no, this year when/if he wins another title it'll make it even MORE apparent that he NEEDS a great big man like Pau Gasol with all-star caliber help surrounding him, with Phil Jackson to win; but it will also become apparent that the Lakers are a great team.
it's not "being fortunate" either, because he was ready to pack his bags & go to Chicago if the front office didn't hook him up with people; it was a demand, not something that fell into his lap.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Jordan never had to play with a dominant figure like Shaq...don't penalize Kobe and his greatness just because he was fortunate enough to be a focal point on one of the greatest teams in NBA history.
Thats normal man. Wouldnt you say Kobe winning the title last year was far more impressive than ANY of the titles he won playing next to Shaq? I would. And you know you do to. You know yourself that EVERY single Kobe fan was praying he would win one without Shaq. Why would that be...if having Shaq wasnt viewed as such a huge advantage in Kobe having the other three titles? Kobe fans wanted Kobe to prove he could win one as THE man on the team.
Btw...dont say "had to play with a dominant figure like Shaq" lol. Jordan would have loved to have that kind of help. And with where Kobe was in his career...having Shaq there was a blessing for him. They obviously would not have three-peated if you removed Shaq from the picture.
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i'll finish your sentence.
..is second to LeBron. ;D
Lebron is the most skilled but he's got a long way to go to be the type of closer Kobe is.
the most skilled? what game you watching hahahaha, he's the most athletic and has the best physical gifts, but most skilled far from it, that muthafucca's jump shot is type garbage,his post moves very sub par, his footwork is nowhere near kobe's or tim duncans, stop drinking the stern and nba flavor aid they want to that equal to be the face of the league,but instead of it happening naturally like jordans progression they are telling you this guy is everything and it's not true just yet yell
Lol chill out man, I meant more along the lines of most gifted.
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^LOL, surprise, surprise the year he's all alone & was considered a horrible teammate, being a ballhog, he dropped 81. :laugh:
& no, this year when/if he wins another title it'll make it even MORE apparent that he NEEDS a great big man like Pau Gasol with all-star caliber help surrounding him, with Phil Jackson to win; but it will also become apparent that the Lakers are a great team.
it's not "being fortunate" either, because he was ready to pack his bags & go to Chicago if the front office didn't hook him up with people; it was a demand, not something that fell into his lap.
He was playing on a team with Smush, Walton, and Kwame in the starting lineup, that team wouldn't have made the playoffs if Kobe hadn't tried to take over nearly every game. And in the year he played with those shit players, who considered him a "horrible teammate"?
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Had a GREAT series....I'd go as far to say that was his best playoff series as a leader.
He hit TOUGH shots, was consistent, used his teammates, and showed real maturity.
If he plays like this in the finals, Celtics have no chance. He'll get his second playoff MVP and become a top 5 playoff player ever...
michael jordan
oscar robertson
larry bird
magic johnson
bill russell
wilt chamberlain
kareem abdoul jabbar
shaq o'neal
kobe is never cracking the top 8
lol Kobe is still struggling to crack the top ten. The reason why Jordan is so hard to ever top is because every single year....Jordan was the best player in the league. There was absolutely NO debating it. Which is why the league is CONSTANTLY trying to build up a player as the next Jordan. Kobe has never ONCE been the clearcut BEST in the league. He is always amongst a group of great players. He has had moments where he was the best....so has LeBron....so has Duncan....etc.
kobe ain't in the top 10?? you can't be serious my nig. where'd you put him...in the top 50? haha
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^LOL, surprise, surprise the year he's all alone & was considered a horrible teammate, being a ballhog, he dropped 81. :laugh:
& no, this year when/if he wins another title it'll make it even MORE apparent that he NEEDS a great big man like Pau Gasol with all-star caliber help surrounding him, with Phil Jackson to win; but it will also become apparent that the Lakers are a great team.
it's not "being fortunate" either, because he was ready to pack his bags & go to Chicago if the front office didn't hook him up with people; it was a demand, not something that fell into his lap.
He was playing on a team with Smush, Walton, and Kwame in the starting lineup, that team wouldn't have made the playoffs if Kobe hadn't tried to take over nearly every game. And in the year he played with those shit players, who considered him a "horrible teammate"?
all the analysts & shit were calling him a ballhog, etc.
it's hard to average 35 points a game & not be labeled a ballhog lol.
but LeBron has only been put in a slightly better situation, basically similar situation in 2006 & he went to the Finals.
so coincidentally enough, the year Kobe drops 81 & didn't win a ring is the year NIK says he was at the top of his game, surpassing Jordan, while LeBron led his team to the Finals with almost a similarly awful cast.
funny though how the only thing he holds against LeBron is that he hasn't won a ring & Kobe's peak was when he didn't win lol.
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^LOL, surprise, surprise the year he's all alone & was considered a horrible teammate, being a ballhog, he dropped 81. :laugh:
& no, this year when/if he wins another title it'll make it even MORE apparent that he NEEDS a great big man like Pau Gasol with all-star caliber help surrounding him, with Phil Jackson to win; but it will also become apparent that the Lakers are a great team.
it's not "being fortunate" either, because he was ready to pack his bags & go to Chicago if the front office didn't hook him up with people; it was a demand, not something that fell into his lap.
He was playing on a team with Smush, Walton, and Kwame in the starting lineup, that team wouldn't have made the playoffs if Kobe hadn't tried to take over nearly every game. And in the year he played with those shit players, who considered him a "horrible teammate"?
all the analysts & shit were calling him a ballhog, etc.
it's hard to average 35 points a game & not be labeled a ballhog lol.
but LeBron has only been put in a slightly better situation, basically similar situation in 2006 & he went to the Finals.
so coincidentally enough, the year Kobe drops 81 & didn't win a ring is the year NIK says he was at the top of his game, surpassing Jordan, while LeBron led his team to the Finals with almost a similarly awful cast.
funny though how the only thing he holds against LeBron is that he hasn't won a ring & Kobe's peak was when he didn't win lol.
Yeah but again, guys that were playing in the starting lineup aren't even good enough to get consistent minutes on ANY team (aside from Lamar). While Lebron's supporting cast was nothing to brag about in those days, it was still stronger than Kobe's. Also, Lebron played in the East and had a much easier regular season and playoff road. Yeah the Pistons series was very impressive but that almost seemed like more of a Pistons collapse rather than a Cavs victory, but I'll give him props for that regardless. While you can make some comparisons between the two situations I guess I just don't see the similarities that you do, I feel like if Kobe hadn't tried to take over all the games with that cast they would be a lottery team (like they were the first year w/o Shaq when Bryant was injured and missed a bunch of games)
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This "Natas" character is the biggest idiot i've seen post on here....its obious everything he's sayin is to hate on kobe... how can you not say he's a great player? ... did he not wanna sign u an autograph or something? .... Kobe>LeBron.. what does LeBron have that kobe doesnt? .. Footwork? Jumper? Clutch shooting? Handles? Basketball IQ? Rings? Wins?
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CAVS FANS AGREE KOBE>LEBRON from CAVS FORUM
Watching Kobe in the playoffs this year proves he is still better than Lebron. Some of the shots Kobe is taking with a man in his face fade away, go down ever time in clutch situations. LeBron did not prove this year that he could make those clutch shots. With that said we really do need Lebron back here in Cleveland. But no matter where he goes I just don't think Lebron will ever have that killer instinct. The one that basketball is everything and he will do anything to have that trophy in his hands at the end of the year.
LeBron is more into what movie he will be in, how he can become the next billion dollar athlete, what NY is saying about him, how he can make the NBA bow down to him in free agency, goofin off before games, during games, in practice ect... We don't see Kobe do these things because he works hard and has the heart of a champion.
Never liked Kobe, actually I hate the guy. Until this year, just the way Lebron is handling himself makes me believe he is no where close to Kobe. And if he leaves I don't think he ever will be.
He's not only better than Lebron, imo he's significantly better. He wins big games. He's still the MVP if by that you mean "Who is the biggest winner in the league.." "If you could have one guy..." etc. He has a better coach and a better starting cast, but you saw it again tonight... hitting impossible shots when it counted. Over and over again. That burning fire. He's still the best player of this generation.
Who would I rather sign to a long-term deal? Lebron, of course. But there's no doubt in my mind that Bryant is, at 32, still the better player. He's the guy I'd rather go to war with... Stats schmats, look with your eyes.
I hate the Lakers, but that's just the way it is. We're just going to have to wait for time to take its toll.
I've had a chance to digest how this year's playoffs went down and I've thought long and hard about what the team should do now. After several weeks of thinking I'm of the opinion that the best thing the Cavs can do is to separate themselves from LeBron James. He is holding this franchise hostage and has shown NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE why he deserves to be in that position. I have 100% soured on LeBron James as a member of this team. I realize I'm probably one of the few Cavs fans who thinks this way, but at this point I'd rather start over from scratch and rebuild the team than to put up with LeBron's terrorist tactics; his intentional tank job has sealed it for me.
That being said, the only way I can think to make the comparison is this way:
- Kobe's primary focus is championships; LeBron's primary focus is money and attention.
- If Kobe gets money and attention while winning championships, he considers them ancillary rewards for hard work and determination to be the best player he can be.
-If LeBron wins championships while getting money and attention, he considers it to an ancillary benefit for the hard work and determination to be the best bread-winner and media whore he can be.
If Kobe has a mismatch he exploits it.
If LBJ has a mismatch he shoots the hero 3 or dribbles out the shot clock and throws the bail out pass to a teammate to take all the blame.
The fact he is ok with Games 2, 4, 5, and 6 in the Bos series alone makes him unworthy of being compared to Kobe anymore.
Kobe laughs at LeBron's development after 7 years.
No J, no post-game, not clutch when it matters.
LeFame is his nickname cuz thats all he cares about.
Lebron has a ways to go before he can do what Kobe does. As of now, Kobe is by far the better player and he makes Lebron look like childs play. Until Lebron can takeover and win the end of games for his team in the regular season and in the playoffs Kobe will always be better.
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^LOL, surprise, surprise the year he's all alone & was considered a horrible teammate, being a ballhog, he dropped 81. :laugh:
& no, this year when/if he wins another title it'll make it even MORE apparent that he NEEDS a great big man like Pau Gasol with all-star caliber help surrounding him, with Phil Jackson to win; but it will also become apparent that the Lakers are a great team.
it's not "being fortunate" either, because he was ready to pack his bags & go to Chicago if the front office didn't hook him up with people; it was a demand, not something that fell into his lap.
He was playing on a team with Smush, Walton, and Kwame in the starting lineup, that team wouldn't have made the playoffs if Kobe hadn't tried to take over nearly every game. And in the year he played with those shit players, who considered him a "horrible teammate"?
all the analysts & shit were calling him a ballhog, etc.
it's hard to average 35 points a game & not be labeled a ballhog lol.
but LeBron has only been put in a slightly better situation, basically similar situation in 2006 & he went to the Finals.
so coincidentally enough, the year Kobe drops 81 & didn't win a ring is the year NIK says he was at the top of his game, surpassing Jordan, while LeBron led his team to the Finals with almost a similarly awful cast.
funny though how the only thing he holds against LeBron is that he hasn't won a ring & Kobe's peak was when he didn't win lol.
How much games did he win? :-X :-X :-X :D
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^i forget if it went 6 or 7 games in that Eastern Conference Final, but he scored 29 of the Cavs last 30 points so he won ONE game by himself lol.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
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You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in.
Not entirely true.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/01playoffs/stories/2001-06-05-bryant-cover.htm
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
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Shaq was an absurd freak of nature in his prime, I have never seen such a human being. It was like a grown man playing with some talented kids. He was so dominant, only fouls could stop him and sometimes not even that. It pissed me off so much. It was just not fair. All he had to do is get the ball in the paint and noone could do anything. I really hated that shit.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
lol Kobe deferred to Shaq because that was the logical key to victory for those Laker squads. If Kobe was the focal point of those teams, Shaq would have needed to defer to Kobe. And didnt Shaq say Wade was the best player in the league when he played with him? NIK only listens to shit Shaq says, if its something good about Kobe. The rest of the time Shaq is a bitter hater lol. And Im sorry, but during those 3 peat years...the only way Kobe was part of any "GOAT" conversations was if people were saying "this kid is not going to be the GOAT" lol. Hardly anyone NOW even considers him the GOAT...or even in the top 5 players ever. Typically not even the top 10 yet. Not even the greatest Laker yet. So to think that back THEN he was in the conversation is delusional. I dont think anyone here doubts Kobe as an all time great. But NIK just goes overboard and pretends like Kobe was considered an all time great always....even by the 12 teams that passed on him in the draft.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.
Kobe has been the clear-cut best for some time now, and those who try to put the LeBron's and Wade's on his level are out of their mind, and I credit a lot of that to media and marketing.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
lol Kobe deferred to Shaq because that was the logical key to victory for those Laker squads. If Kobe was the focal point of those teams, Shaq would have needed to defer to Kobe. And didnt Shaq say Wade was the best player in the league when he played with him? NIK only listens to shit Shaq says, if its something good about Kobe. The rest of the time Shaq is a bitter hater lol. And Im sorry, but during those 3 peat years...the only way Kobe was part of any "GOAT" conversations was if people were saying "this kid is not going to be the GOAT" lol. Hardly anyone NOW even considers him the GOAT...or even in the top 5 players ever. Typically not even the top 10 yet. Not even the greatest Laker yet. So to think that back THEN he was in the conversation is delusional. I dont think anyone here doubts Kobe as an all time great. But NIK just goes overboard and pretends like Kobe was considered an all time great always....even by the 12 teams that passed on him in the draft.
He wasn't always an all-time great, obviously. He came outa high school and had to work his way up, which is part of why he has the greatest work ethic in basketball of all time...but around 21, 22, it was already evident to many that he was special and possessed a skill-set reminiscent of Jordan, with a drive and desire as strong, if not stronger than Jordan's. Honestly, if Shaq woulda had less of an ego and had taken a back-seat to Kobe when it was time, Lakers woulda won a couple more championships with that duo in the 03-07 era. But when Shaq bounced, Kobe had to play on rebuilding teams and that, along with the rape case, really hurt him and had the media looking for other players to market and hype. This was never the case with Jordan, which is why Kobe will NEVER be as glorified or as publicly accepted as Jordan...but as good as Jordan on the court? NOTHING currently takes Kobe out of that discussion...PeACe
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.
you don't think there is any coincidence that Wade was given Shaq & he won a ring & Kobe got bounced, quick? :laugh:
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Kobe was clearly the 2nd offensive option during the 1st title ... it's way more arguable for the next 2... He averaged more pts than Shaq in the 2000-2001 playoffs (29.4 to 28.7) and it was very closed in 2001-2002 (27.2 for Shaq ; 26.6 for Kobe)
The reason that Shaq was the clear MVP of the Finals is the East was fuckin weak in the paint , I don't even remember who was the starting center for the Nets in 02... of course we were going to feed Shaq more than Kobe in these Finals ...
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
Not only do i obviously believe everything I say, but everything i've written is also the truth...and most people who have followed Kobe's career believe the same. The general public is made to believe that Kobe, Wade, and LeBron are all great players in the same class, when clearly, Kobe is another type of player who has been head-and-shoulders above the rest for some time now, and his numerous accomplishments and record breaking numbers are both GOAT material.
you don't think there is any coincidence that Wade was given Shaq & he won a ring & Kobe got bounced, quick? :laugh:
Shaq impact was very poor in the Finals against Dallas ... Dallas choking , Wade great play and the refs won that title ... anyways this team was easily the weakest champion in NBA history
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
You can discredit those titles somewhat when he was playin second fiddle to Shaq. Anyone with any basketball knowledge knows that Shaq was the main focus of that team. Not too many people argue that lol. Shaq was the one creating double and even triple teams at times, opening up the entire floor for EVERYone else. Even Kobe. When was that ever the case for Jordan? lol Those Laker teams were very good because of both of them. You had a bigman who was billed as one of the most dominant bigman ever. And Kobe who was one of the best players in the league as well. But during Jordans run, there was never a question who was the best in the game...let alone, on his team. And as far as that goes, ever SINCE Jordan...the whole "best in the game" argument is pretty flawed. The media plays a big role in this. Ever since Jordan the media and league has been desperate to find the NEXT Jordan. Well, the next Jordan can never be a bigman. Bigs dont tend to offer the same quality of highlights and excitement that an athletic perimeter player does. Im sure people have noticed how the "best in the game" argument over the last 15 years has only been reserved for guards or small forwards exclusively. No matter who the big is. Shaq is considered a top ten player all time, but he was never really called the BEST in the game. Instead they called him the most dominant (that way they could reserve the "best" title for someone else). Duncan is a top ten player all time and best PF all time with multiple MVPs and finals MVPs, and again...he was rarely referred to as the "BEST" player in the game. They simply called him the best big man in the league. You cant tell me that since Jordan retired...there has never been a time where a big was the best player in the game. They just wont be argued over by the media....because the media wants excitement.
Kobe has been the clear-cut best for some time now,
to who?? Maybe Im living on a different planet than you. This last year the consensus was that LeBron was the best player on the planet. With Kobe it has typically ALWAYS gone back in forth. There are times where he is the best player...times where LeBron is...etc. And btw, like I was talkin about before with the "best" player argument. I rarely like to call ANYone the best player. I distinguish between positions...or at least between bigs and perimeter players. Again, bigs tend to never get credit in todays NBA. People want to argue over LeBron and Kobe because they are highlight reels...and because everyone is hoping for the next Jordan. A big cant be that...no matter how good they are.
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a bit of a stretch there lol but ok...top 5 player ever....lol
LMAO@top 5 being a stretch when he's competing for GOAT status.
He is competing in YOUR mind lol. Most experts didnt have Kobe rated a top 10 all time player prior to this year. Him winning his second title as the leader of the team I dont think will bounce him all the way into the top 5 lol But then again...Im arguing with a guy who thinks Kobe is better than Jordan (no Farmar).
Pretty much everyone already acknowledges that Kobe, at the top of his game, has surpassed or at the very least matched Jordan as far as skill goes. If he wins 6+ titles, it would be ridiculous to not include him in the GOAT discussion.
LOL!!! Wow...
First off...Kobe having 6 titles isnt the same as Jordan having 6 titles. Even ESPN radio addressed it this morning. When talking about how fans are so caught up in the present. Originally the conversation was about Rondo and how when he has a big game in the playoffs people immediately start calling him the best point guard in the league. When really, there are about 3 or 4 that definitely better then him. Then it switched to Kobe and how Kobe fans say he is better than Jordan everytime he has a big 30+ point game in the playoffs when really he is still 30 playoff games behind Jordan, 2 titles behind him..AND (important), Jordan never had Shaq. No one looks at Kobe's first 3 titles as an AMAZING accomlpishment of an all time great, because he was the second best player on those teams. Jordan NEVER was the second best player lol. Kobe's first three titles are closer to Pippens titles....then Jordans. Kobe's title last year was a far bigger individual accomplishment then all three of the three-peat titles lol. So he has a LOT of catching up to do.
Kobe did just as much as Shaq to help the Lakers earn those titles...Again, you can't discredit Kobe because he played with Shaq. Playing, as a leader, for those great Laker teams in the earlier part of his career is part of what helped Kobe gain that drive and mental toughness he developed when he took over. Jordan mighta been the main man on his team earlier in his career, but for a while, he was also the man who was getting knocked out by the Pistons. Even when Kobe was winning titles with Shaq, he was considered the best player in the world. You can say the Lakers wouldn't have won the titles without Shaq, but they wouldn't have won em without Kobe either. Fact of the matter is, Kobe is actually still in his prime, playing amazing ball and breaking records left and right, and to take him out of the GOAT discussion this early, when his career is not even near its end, is pretty stupid.
Or, possibly, to put him IN the GOAT discussion when his career isn't finished is stupid ;) He has had a GREAT career, but to be up there with Jordan and Magic he better win a few ore playoff MVPS...after all, isnt that all Kobe fans say matters now. NOt the stats, not the regular season, just the playoff MVP. If he gets two more, he will have as many chips as MJ, but still only half of the playoff MVP's.
You know, in a way Kobe DOES get penalized for playing with Shaq, BUT Kobe was NEVER in consideration for MVP in any of those finals, and the one they lost he was horrible in. Kobe was like Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. That is still awesome, but quit trying to rewrite this shit. And I don't recall Kobe being consdered the BEST player in the world any of the years they won the title? He was still inconsistent and selfish at times (notice how much better he is now that he has matured, even with the slightly diminshed ahtletic ability). Kobe is WAY better now than he was when the Lakers won those titles...what makes him so good now (especially in these playoffs) is he knows when to shoot and takeover, and when to defer to his teammates.
AGAIN, Kobe was NOT a supporting player ala Pippen. He was a focal point on the Laker threepeat teams, even at the age of 21. Even in his early 20's, he was already up there as far as ability goes and his professionalism matched that.. and it showed when he sacrificed being a global icon and THE man on the team in order to win championships with Shaq...even Shaq was quoted as saying that Kobe was the greatest player in the world back during the Lakers' '01 playoff run, in which Kobe was the go-to-guy down the stretch who hit most of the big shots and made most of the big plays. I honestly don't even know if Jordan and Shaq woulda worked out as well as Kobe and Shaq, due to the fact that Kobe was able to defer to Shaq, even when he was an MVP caliber player who was already in GOAT discussions, while Jordan doesn't seem like the type who woulda been able to put his ego aside for such a demanding dominant presence like Shaq.
See, I see through your facade and can tell you in no way believe what you are writing...its just not ossible for an a semi-intelligent human being to actually believe this shit. I've got it figured out- you actually know bball, hence the occasional knowledgable comment, but for the most part you just say shit for attention. Cool
lol Kobe deferred to Shaq because that was the logical key to victory for those Laker squads. If Kobe was the focal point of those teams, Shaq would have needed to defer to Kobe. And didnt Shaq say Wade was the best player in the league when he played with him? NIK only listens to shit Shaq says, if its something good about Kobe. The rest of the time Shaq is a bitter hater lol. And Im sorry, but during those 3 peat years...the only way Kobe was part of any "GOAT" conversations was if people were saying "this kid is not going to be the GOAT" lol. Hardly anyone NOW even considers him the GOAT...or even in the top 5 players ever. Typically not even the top 10 yet. Not even the greatest Laker yet. So to think that back THEN he was in the conversation is delusional. I dont think anyone here doubts Kobe as an all time great. But NIK just goes overboard and pretends like Kobe was considered an all time great always....even by the 12 teams that passed on him in the draft.
He wasn't always an all-time great, obviously. He came outa high school and had to work his way up, which is part of why he has the greatest work ethic in basketball of all time...but around 21, 22, it was already evident to many that he was special and possessed a skill-set reminiscent of Jordan, with a drive and desire as strong, if not stronger than Jordan's. Honestly, if Shaq woulda had less of an ego and had taken a back-seat to Kobe when it was time, Lakers woulda won a couple more championships with that duo in the 03-07 era. But when Shaq bounced, Kobe had to play on rebuilding teams and that, along with the rape case, really hurt him and had the media looking for other players to market and hype. This was never the case with Jordan, which is why Kobe will NEVER be as glorified or as publicly accepted as Jordan...but as good as Jordan on the court? NOTHING currently takes Kobe out of that discussion...PeACe
when you continuously pretend as if Kobe has a better work ethich then the entire basketball world ever...and more drive than Jordan....you make your arguments seem ridiculous. Its hard to really take anything you say seriously after that. When youre trying to be convincing in an argument, it helps when the first thing you say is completely insane. And as far as Shaq taking a back seat to Kobe. If Kobe would have had less of an ego and continued to play Shaqs Robin they might have kept winning too. Who knows. Kobe being the number two on those teams to Shaq worked out pretty well. Kobe should have stayed in his place for the team. But he wanted to be the man, so Shaq went and won a title with Wade instead. I know it just KILLS you man, to know that Kobe had to be the second best player on a three-peat time lol When Jordan was NEVER second to anyone on the Bulls. Shit, LeBron hasnt ever been second to anyone.
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Kobe was clearly the 2nd offensive option during the 1st title ... it's way more arguable for the next 2... He averaged more pts than Shaq in the 2000-2001 playoffs (29.4 to 28.7) and it was very closed in 2001-2002 (27.2 for Shaq ; 26.6 for Kobe)
The reason that Shaq was the clear MVP of the Finals is the East was fuckin weak in the paint , I don't even remember who was the starting center for the Nets in 02... of course we were going to feed Shaq more than Kobe in these Finals ...
The reason Shaq was the MVP was because he was the catalyst. Points arent what determines MVP. If Amare averages more points than Nash...does that mean Amare is better that Nash? lol HELL no. The offense went through Shaq. Shaq was the focal point. You throw the ball down low...allow the double team to come....Shaq kicks the ball out to open perimeter players or a slashing Kobe. Simple. Only Kobe fans try to argue otherwise. NIK is even educated on basketball and how an offense functions, but he choses not to admit the obvious...because it doesnt make Kobe appear as the main go-to guy on those championship teams. It doesnt mean that Kobe isnt a great player. One of the greatest perimeter players ever. But the fact remains that on THOSE teams...he was #2. The rest of the world has accepted that for years, I think its time for Kobe fans to accept it.
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
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Kobe & Shaq were one of the most amazing combos in history. I don't get how people can discredit either. Kobe was the most dominant guard in the league ,and Shaq the most dominant big man in the league, it's a shame for LA that they couldn't co-exist longer.
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they could have won 1 or 2 more titles ... off topic but I enjoy more watching our team since 08 than these threepeat years... Shaq style of play was not "pretty" to watch
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Not to mention that Shaq was much better than Kobe in the '04 Finals
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
Maybe not, but with Lebron in his prime and Shaq in his prime I'd guess about 4 straight titles.
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This revisionist bullshit, saying Kobe was the man on those Lakers teams, or that he was as great as soon as he entered the league, is no different than hiphop heads saying Reasonable Doubt had a huge impact on the game and was the best album to drop in the 90's.
Fact= Jay Z was second or third to Biggie, Nas, and even a few others
Fact= Kobe was second to SHaq, and there were a few other players as good as Kobe in 2001 or 2002
We saw glimpses of what Kobe could become, we saw glimpses of what Jay could become...both were at the ceiling ability wise, but had yet to perfect the rest of their games.
NOW...Jay is being talked about as the best ever, and so is Kobe. But the ones who don't REVISE everything years later KNOW Jay wasn't seeing Nas or BIG, and Kobe sure wasn't seeing SHAQ on those teams. He was important, a great player (if a bit immature and selfish), and definitely instrumental in the victories. But he was NOT fucking with Shaq
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jay-z was never NEAR, i repeat NEVER near Big L or Big Pun status (or Biggie or Nas or GZA)
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"I think he's a better and a more well-rounded total basketball player," Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said at a charity event in which a community center blocks from the arena was dedicated by NBA Cares. "And that includes leadership, teammate skills, things you get better at as you mature. Five, six years ago, he was off the charts athletically. Today he's still incredibly athletic but not as athletic as 26. When you look at the total package, yes, he's better now."
Everyone but NIK can see that Kobe wasn't always as good as he is now
And Hans, I've never been a Jay fan like that so I feel you...he just happens to be the guy that everyone is saying is the GOAT now
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
Maybe not, but with Lebron in his prime and Shaq in his prime I'd guess about 4 straight titles.
LMAO...LeBron doesn't have the outide game nor the clutch play to make a LeBron-Shaq duo even HALF as successful as the Kobe-Shaq 1-2 punch of the threepeat era. The inside-outside game was vital. Shaq clogged up the lane, where LeBron scores most his point...do you watch basketball, Shallow? Because you do seem like a knowledgeable person...just that you sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance, and a lot of the time when you argue against Kobe.
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
Money...Just the fact that they call him "Robin" goes to show how narrow-minded most of the peeps who post here are.
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"I think he's a better and a more well-rounded total basketball player," Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said at a charity event in which a community center blocks from the arena was dedicated by NBA Cares. "And that includes leadership, teammate skills, things you get better at as you mature. Five, six years ago, he was off the charts athletically. Today he's still incredibly athletic but not as athletic as 26. When you look at the total package, yes, he's better now."
Everyone but NIK can see that Kobe wasn't always as good as he is now
And Hans, I've never been a Jay fan like that so I feel you...he just happens to be the guy that everyone is saying is the GOAT now
Of course Kobe is at (or near) the top of his game now...but regardless, he's been the best player in basketball for quite some time now. He just never got the hype Jordan did, but as far as basketball goes, NOBODY, not LeBron, not Nash, not Duncan...none of 'em have been as good as Kobe has been over the last decade.
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bitch ass jew posting 3 times in a row to defend his american idol kobe
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"I think he's a better and a more well-rounded total basketball player," Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said at a charity event in which a community center blocks from the arena was dedicated by NBA Cares. "And that includes leadership, teammate skills, things you get better at as you mature. Five, six years ago, he was off the charts athletically. Today he's still incredibly athletic but not as athletic as 26. When you look at the total package, yes, he's better now."
Everyone but NIK can see that Kobe wasn't always as good as he is now
And Hans, I've never been a Jay fan like that so I feel you...he just happens to be the guy that everyone is saying is the GOAT now
Of course Kobe is at (or near) the top of his game now...but regardless, he's been the best player in basketball for quite some time now. He just never got the hype Jordan did, but as far as basketball goes, NOBODY, not LeBron, not Nash, not Duncan...none of 'em have been as good as Kobe has been over the last decade.
kobe has one MVP in his career. meanwhile Nash and Lebron both have two over that time frame. not sure how you can say Kobe is the best player overthe last decade in that case.
oh and Kobe was NEVER the best player in the nba during the Shaq-Kobe era so at best Kobe has been the best Laker only since 2005.
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
Maybe not, but with Lebron in his prime and Shaq in his prime I'd guess about 4 straight titles.
LMAO...LeBron doesn't have the outide game nor the clutch play to make a LeBron-Shaq duo even HALF as successful as the Kobe-Shaq 1-2 punch of the threepeat era. The inside-outside game was vital. Shaq clogged up the lane, where LeBron scores most his point...do you watch basketball, Shallow? Because you do seem like a knowledgeable person...just that you sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about in this instance, and a lot of the time when you argue against Kobe.
I'm not arguing against Kobe here. Kobe is in his prime now and the last few years. Kobe in his prime with Shaq in his prime would be a at least 4 straight as well. I don't think Kobe was at his absolute best in those three years and I don't think he was as good as Lebron is now in those three years. What I saw was an unstoppable Shaq and with the Bulls dismantled he could have won 2 titles with me, fuck Lebron. So I feel that Lebron as is playing with Shaq in the late 90s early 2000s would have either beaten one of those Jazz or Spurs teams and also won the three the Lakers won.
And based on what I've seen with the modern Cavs I don't see Kobe doing any better with that team than Lebron did.
I never said Lebron was better than Kobe. You've won the Kobe debate with me. He's the best player right now. Just not by a landslide, and still not as valuable to me as a '99 Shaq.
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I don't try to argue otherwise , Shaq was the focal point ... I'm just saying that Kobe was not your regular second option ... you won't find many 2nd options who averaged 27 , 5 and 5 on a championship team ... so he deserved more credit for those titles than some of you give him ..
I don't think that we would have made it to the Finals these years and if you replace Kobe by let's say Ginobili in his prime .... do you think so ?
I agree. I wouldnt say he was your average #2 option. Not at all. And Ive never argued that Ginobli was as good as Kobe lol. All Im saying is, he WAS the #2 guy on that team. That is clear, and very obvious. EVERYone knows it. That doesnt mean he wasnt a HUGE part of those championships. Without Kobe, they would not have three-peated. That has never been my argument. My point is, when you look at those titles...you DO have to take into account the fact that he was the #2. Especially when Kobe fans try to argue Kobe>Jordan. There IS a big difference between being THE man on a championship team, and being the #2 man on a championship team as far as legacy is concerned.
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No guards is seeing Jordan in terms of accomplishment and efficiency ... this debate should be put to rest ...
I have always said that Kobe offensive arsenal is better and a Kobe on fire is more impressive than a MJ in the zone but Kobe cannot fuck with MJ numbers and efficiency in the playoffs and in the Finals and thats a fact....
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
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KOBE!!!!!!!!! ;D
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Its fucked up cuz I started this thread as a compliment to Kobe...but certain Kobe stans gotta get offended by that, and try to prove he is the best ever.
Jordan once averaged over 40 in the finals
Another time he put up 31, 11 assists, and 7 boards for averages
Another time 35, 6, and 5
Jordan scored 13 fg in a row (including the signature lay-up) against L.A.
You saw his last finals game, right?
Jordan went to six finals, won 6 MVPs...no one will EVER fuck with that.
Kobe will really have his work cut ot fro him...I would say Kobe right now is SUPERIOR to the player he was during the first three titles, and even last year. But its gonna take a lot to usneat the god.
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When Kobe was younger he tried to run his teams show all the time too sometimes hurting them. LeBron does the same thing. You can't compare the two until LeBron gets at least one or two rings.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
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lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
you mean terms of things you can't physically judge? all of those things are speculation.
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aight my niggas Im a put this shit to rest. As much as I like Kobe that nigga don't even come close to Jordan. None of 'em niggas come close to that nigga. Not Magic, LeBron, D-Wade or any of 'em fools. Everybody know Kobe is a ball hog and yeah the niggas is good, maybe the best today and I love that nigga, but the '92 MJ was simply unstoppable. I don't give a fucc if some bitch ass cry baby nigga from the Boston "I wanna thank the Lord" Celtics broke some record. Ray didn't do shit but get luccy that night, he's a bitch in every other game, MJ was consistent. And who the fucc is gonna score 63 points against the best defense team in the world except MJ? Checc the statitistics nigga. He beats Kobe in scoring average, assists, rebounds, steals, bloccs, almost everything. Niggas say theres more talent today, I say fucc that, checc the early '90s games, the game was faster, tougher, niggas wasn't all about the offensive, it was more strategic.
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top 20 NBA players ever as of june 2010:
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Hakeem Olajuwan
Tim Duncan
Shaq O'Neal
Kareem Jabbar
Kevin Garnett
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Kobe Bryant
Isiaih Thomas
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Elgin Baylor
Charles Barkley
Lebron James
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top 20 NBA players ever as of june 2010:
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Hakeem Olajuwan
Tim Duncan
Shaq O'Neal
Kareem Jabbar
Kevin Garnett
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Kobe Bryant
Isiaih Thomas
Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Elgin Baylor
Charles Barkley
Lebron James
Your top ten look pretty on par with most lists ive seen out there from analysts. Only the order is a little off. Most Ive seen have Wilt above Bird and Magic and even Russell and Kareem. Also most Ive seen have Magic ahead of Bird....but always usually #4 and #5....or #5 and #6. After the top ten man lol I havent seen ANYONE rate Garnett that high. Above Malone, Barkely?? lol Not even close. Garnett is typically not even considered one of the top FOUR PF's all time.
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i would rank Oscar #2 over magic AND larry but most niggas on here would go crazy
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i would rank Oscar #2 over magic AND larry but most niggas on here would go crazy
I actually agree with you. He is just too far in the past for people now to realize his greatness. The Big O was Lebron before Lebron...only with better stats than anyone in history lol
I mean..look at the first 6 years (especially the last 3 categories) lol RIDICULOUS
Year Team G Min. FGM FGA Pct. FTM FTA Pct. Reb. Ast. PF D Pts. RPG APG PPG
60-61 Cincinnati 71 3012 756 1600 .473 653 794 .822 716 *690 219 3 2165 10.1 *9.7 30.5
61-62 Cincinnati 79 3503 866 1810 .478 700 872 .803 985 *899 258 1 2432 12.5 *11.4 30.8
62-63 Cincinnati 80 3521 825 1593 .518 614 758 .810 835 758 293 1 2264 10.4 9.5 28.3
63-64 Cincinnati 79 3559 840 1740 .483 *800 938 *.853 783 *868 280 3 2480 9.9 *11.0 31.4
64-65 Cincinnati 75 3421 807 1681 .480 *665 793 .839 674 *861 205 2 2279 9.0 *11.5 30.4
65-66 Cincinnati 76 3493 818 1723 .475 742 881 .842 586 *847 227 1 2378 7.7 *11.1 31.3
66-67 Cincinnati 79 3468 838 1699 .493 736 843 .873 486 845 226 2 2412 6.2 *10.7 30.5
Not to mention...I dont think they were recording blocks back then. Until 1973-74. The end of his career...and THAT year he averaged 4.0 blocks per game with his lowest minutes per game played of his career. So you can only imagine what kind of Block totals he was putting up in his prime. He was fuckin nuts.
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To rank greatest players of all time is almost impossible and can't be accurate to me in lots of cases ... there are so many factors to be taken into consideration that can't be accurately compared imo ... position , era in which the player played , overall competition , rules ect ...
How can you really say Shaq has to be ranked higher than Wilt or vice versa ?
The 2nd argument is that most of us have started watching B-Ball in the 80es at very best so how can we really comment on a O.Roberston , Elgin Baylor ect ... watching tapes 40 years later is not the same we can't really judge and feel how was the competition , the overall game at that precised moment
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Fuck Kobe, no homo
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To rank greatest players of all time is almost impossible and can't be accurate to me in lots of cases ... there are so many factors to be taken into consideration that can't be accurately compared imo ... position , era in which the player played , overall competition , rules ect ...
How can you really say Shaq has to be ranked higher than Wilt or vice versa ?
The 2nd argument is that most of us have started watching B-Ball in the 80es at very best so how can we really comment on a O.Roberston , Elgin Baylor ect ... watching tapes 40 years later is not the same we can't really judge and feel how was the competition , the overall game at that precised moment
Yeah I kind of agree. I think the consensus is obvious that MJ is the greatest of all time. I mean, you wont find too many arguments even from other greats. But yeah, its hard when ranking say...the top 10 or 15 players. To me, its more like there are different groups of greats. You have MJ who I say is the greatest. Then you have a group of about 5 or 6 guys who can be shuffled about in any order and it can be valid. Then another group...and another...etc.
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/clusion7721/2hz05dj.gif)
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/clusion7721/2hz05dj.gif)
lol if you put Shaq where Gasol is...this would be pretty symbolic of their three-peat run. Shaq in the drivers seat.....really the most important person in the car since he's at the wheel.....Kobe ridin shotgun, you know....the sidekick....and Phil....well....he's not doin much, just along for the ride really.
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"Here's the heart of the matter: a stat that looks at how a performance like this can get lost and why these next two games could define Kobe's career. In the fourth quarters of the first four games in the Finals -- 48 minutes of action -- the Lakers had 82 possessions. In those possessions, Bryant had 57 touches. And within those 57 touches, he was 7-for-26 (26.9 percent) from the floor, scoring only 28 points.
In the fourth quarter of Game 5, he was 2-for-6 (33.3 percent), scoring nine points. In the last five minutes of the game, when the Lakers were down by as many as eight points, he had zero field goals and five points from the line. Making his game total of 38 points pointless. Because at that point of the game, it's about more than points. For Bryant, it's about an imprint and impact. It's about the mark he leaves on games after they're over."
"A mark that, even when he's played brilliantly in the Finals, we have yet to see. The Kobe Bryant that scares the "Shuttlesworth" out of opponents has still not shown up.
Which is why the next one (or two) game(s) have meaning beyond whether or not the Celtics are crowned champions at Kobe's (and the Lakers') expense. He's discovered his nemesis. It isn't one single player; instead, it's an entire team. Proof? 2008. More proof? 2010. The Celtics have become the Rafa to Kobe's Roger.
His inability, so far, to single-handedly be who we know he can be and do what we know he's capable of doing is making Tom Thibodeau look like the Buddy Ryan of basketball. It's making the Allens (Ray and Tony) look like Darren and Darrelle (Sharper and Revis). It's making the Celtics look like they need to put out a "Kobe Rules" book written by Dan Shaughnessy.
And just as Jordan found a way to overcome his kryptonite, so must Kobe. Two games from the title (one game from losing it), he needs to get the Celtics shook. He needs to be in the back of their minds, making them fearful that that Kobe game is about to happen … and there won't be a damn thing they can do to stop it.
It's beyond weathering the storm. It's beyond survival. Beyond the much-hyped revenge. Now, for Kobe, it's about one man taking the game's G.O.A.T. title (not just the NBA title) personally, and challenging it to the point that MJ as the Greatest Of All Time is either disproved or put into serious question.
It's about Kobe realizing that what happens next might ultimately be how he will be remembered. In the screenplay of his career, the outcome of the next one or two games is the beginning of how his film will end. Because this -- this moment -- is all he has left."
the above is taken from http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=jackson/100614
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The above is what is great, but so difficult about sports- the greatest make their teammates better. I think Kobe does, but to what extent?
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Another thing that really sets Jordan and Kobe apart is the off the ball actions. Jordan has been extraordinary without the ball, like getting crucial steals that led to decisive fast breaks and shit. Kinda like Rondo did sometimes in the Finals. Kobe doesn't have that to that huge extend. Also, his ballhandling has become shaky at times. If he wasn't still such a brilliant shotmaker, he'd be in serious trouble.
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Another thing that really sets Jordan and Kobe apart is the off the ball actions. Jordan has been extraordinary without the ball, like getting crucial steals that led to decisive fast breaks and shit. Kinda like Rondo did sometimes in the Finals. Kobe doesn't have that to that huge extend. Also, his ballhandling has become shaky at times. If he wasn't still such a brilliant shotmaker, he'd be in serious trouble.
Kobe's ball handling has been pretty bad most of the year, I think a lot of that can be attributed to the broken index finger.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
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so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.
running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?
ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh. ;D
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there is such a fine line between your teammates not showing up, or the leader not leading. Who knows what is happening?
All i Know is that IF the Lakers lose tonight, Kobe's leadership will be questioned, right or wrong.
But in the end, Kobe is a generational talent, and one of the best ever. I think its almost unfair to compare his career to MJ's....cuz he just is never gonna get there. BUT, even if he loses this one, he will be one of the best ever.
And NIK, many considered MJ the best player in the league in the late 80's, but it wasn't conclusive, kinda like how many consider Kobe the best, but some still don't.
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^i'm just saying, when LeBron's teammates don't play, it's allllll LeBron.
Kobe gets the teammate excuse though?
he got out of the triangle, there was no movement; it was just Kobe trying to do it all alone.
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so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.
running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?
ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh. ;D
aren't you the fucking moron who said Lebron lost because he didn't have any decent teammates when he let his team down in that epic chokejob against Boston?
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so, Mr. Leader, Mr. Man-In-Charge, Mr. Motivater, Mr. Bryant can't get his players involved enough to have somebody score more than 12 points.
running up & down the court swinging his arms, whining like a bitch, pouting, belitting his teammates & this man is arguably the best "leader" in the NBA?
ahhh, you Laker fans always give me a good laugh. ;D
aren't you the fucking moron who said Lebron lost because he didn't have any decent teammates when he let his team down in that epic chokejob against Boston?
he has decent teammates, but they didn't play.
i didn't see LeBron moping around like a little bitch.
LeBron had a triple-double, he obviously tried to get them involved.
LeBron wishes Big Z could be an assist shy of a triple-double in an elimination game. ::) :D
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
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man it's the same shit around here on DubCC, people need to take like a 1-2 day layoff sometimes
all I see is like 5 people all about Lakers and 5 people who counter whatever they say because they can't stand 'em
on both sides you guys should be tired of arguing dumb points back and forth
it's like an addiction or something that you didn't shake when you were in elementary school
Laker fans and anti-Lakers on here are pathetic... trust me this is how it looks outside the bubble
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man it's the same shit around here on DubCC, people need to take like a 1-2 day layoff sometimes
all I see is like 5 people all about Lakers and 5 people who counter whatever they say because they can't stand 'em
on both sides you guys should be tired of arguing dumb points back and forth
it's like an addiction or something that you didn't shake when you were in elementary school
Laker fans and anti-Lakers on here are pathetic... trust me this is how it looks outside the bubble
Im not really anti Lakers. Its just some of the stupidity gets annoying. There are Laker fans on here who are fairly reasonable and able to distinguish themselves as fans...rather than cheerleaders. And with them, I can have objective conversations about the Lakers, or any other team.
Btw...Sprite fuckin sucks. :-X
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
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seriously man everyone has their own opinions.
i can never consider magic, west, bird, russell, robertson, MJ, hakeem, etc etc the greatest because i was never there for their games, reg season, post, i never felt the games that were on the line that they won. simply because i was way too you to watch the games. i do remember some but not to the point where i can see plays happening and what not.
i can really careless about stats, and personal accomplishments, the thing that gets to me is winning and the will to win and how far the players gonna go to win it.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
I WILL admit the Celtics are a great defenseive team, but wouldn't you say Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all on the downslide of their careers? None of them played conistently well in the series...
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
As good as Boston's defense was their egos on offense and a complete lack of discipline more than made up for it. Why was Rondo covering Gasol on that play? Because one of the big headed stars of Boston decided to do something else. Because of the egos and blatant selfishness this Boston team was not as hard to beat as some of those early 90s Knicks or Suns teams. These Celts have more talent but they don't know how to play as a team as well as they should.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
I WILL admit the Celtics are a great defenseive team, but wouldn't you say Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all on the downslide of their careers? None of them played conistently well in the series...
of course the celtic big 3 aren't in the prime of their career, but as a unit, they play great team ball...one of the best team ball units i've ever seen, by far. and people need to quit acting like jordan was something else, cuz he once clinched a finals series with a 5-19 FG performance, and that was against a decent defense, at best...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
and I don't remember Jordan ever grabbing 15 boards in a Finals game either......give credit where it's due.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
As good as Boston's defense was their egos on offense and a complete lack of discipline more than made up for it. Why was Rondo covering Gasol on that play? Because one of the big headed stars of Boston decided to do something else. Because of the egos and blatant selfishness this Boston team was not as hard to beat as some of those early 90s Knicks or Suns teams. These Celts have more talent but they don't know how to play as a team as well as they should.
I have no idea what you're talking about..they play great as a unit, and not individually, and that's what made them get this far.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
I WILL admit the Celtics are a great defenseive team, but wouldn't you say Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all on the downslide of their careers? None of them played conistently well in the series...
of course the celtic big 3 aren't in the prime of their career, but as a unit, they play great team ball...one of the best team ball units i've ever seen, by far. and people need to quit acting like jordan was something else, cuz he once clinched a finals series with a 5-19 FG performance, and that was against a decent defense, at best...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
and I don't remember Jordan ever grabbing 15 boards in a Finals game either......give credit where it's due.
I think you are referring to his game against the Sonics...I am actually old enoughthat I remember without having to look it up? How many ASSISTS and boards did MJ have that game? Either way it was not a DO OR DIE game, I'm sure you see the difference...in fact, MJ never even played in a finals game 7.
I remember being disappointed in MJ in Game 6 against the JAzz in 98. He was shooting poorly, making bad decisions, had no assists, etc. WE all know how that ended! I
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
Funny, considering how much more MJ drove than Kobe ever has...
Regardless guys, Kobne has the best team, is likely the best player in bball...but, if this finals taught us anything, Kobe is NOT MJ.
He has yet to dominate a finals the way MJ did, and Kobe has SEVEN FINALS trips. He STILL doesn't have a top10 all time finals game, yet he has played SEVEN finals. Jordan has 3, arguably four so this case is closed.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
Ture...I said days ago that neither the Lakers or Celtics are all time great teams...both teams main guys are too hit or miss, and especially the Celtics...those guys played great throughout the playoffs, but they were in over their heads. Great defensively, but Allen, Pierce, and Garnett are a little washed up...anyone who says anything different is reaching
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
Funny, considering how much more MJ drove than Kobe ever has...
Regardless guys, Kobne has the best team, is likely the best player in bball...but, if this finals taught us anything, Kobe is NOT MJ.
He has yet to dominate a finals the way MJ did, and Kobe has SEVEN FINALS trips. He STILL doesn't have a top10 all time finals game, yet he has played SEVEN finals. Jordan has 3, arguably four so this case is closed.
Funny enough, according to Hollinger on ESPN...statistically Tim Duncan had the best finals performance ever (by a good margin I believe) against the Nets. He didnt rate his performance #1 overall though as he included some intangibles like Jordans "Flu game", etc.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
I WILL admit the Celtics are a great defenseive team, but wouldn't you say Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all on the downslide of their careers? None of them played conistently well in the series...
of course the celtic big 3 aren't in the prime of their career, but as a unit, they play great team ball...one of the best team ball units i've ever seen, by far. and people need to quit acting like jordan was something else, cuz he once clinched a finals series with a 5-19 FG performance, and that was against a decent defense, at best...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
and I don't remember Jordan ever grabbing 15 boards in a Finals game either......give credit where it's due.
I think you are referring to his game against the Sonics...I am actually old enoughthat I remember without having to look it up? How many ASSISTS and boards did MJ have that game? Either way it was not a DO OR DIE game, I'm sure you see the difference...in fact, MJ never even played in a finals game 7.
I remember being disappointed in MJ in Game 6 against the JAzz in 98. He was shooting poorly, making bad decisions, had no assists, etc. WE all know how that ended! I
what do u mean it was not a do or die game? it was the hugest game of his career at that point...he loses that game, and he has to play a game 7 against seattle, after winning the first 3 games of the series. fact of the matter is, jordan played his part in winning, it just didn't happen to be on the scoring end of things for that game...just like kobe in this one...feel me?
and to answer your question, i saw that game live 8)
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
We were talking about scoring. Not who is a better player...so youre Parker/Kidd comparison makes no sense. If you want to get into who is a better player, then it is even EASIER to prove Jordan was lol. The only arguing point that Kobe fans have had...is his scoring ability and Ive already shows how Jordan was not only the bigger scorer...but the more efficient scorer. And the refs arent the reason as him and Kobe shoot virtually the same amount of FT per minute played. Which as teecee said...is amazing considering Jordan attacked the basket more than Kobe who shoots more jumpers. Im sure you have enough basketball knowledge to know that you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop...than shooting outside jumpers. So how come Kobe is shooting almost the same amount of Free Throws? lol
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
I WILL admit the Celtics are a great defenseive team, but wouldn't you say Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all on the downslide of their careers? None of them played conistently well in the series...
of course the celtic big 3 aren't in the prime of their career, but as a unit, they play great team ball...one of the best team ball units i've ever seen, by far. and people need to quit acting like jordan was something else, cuz he once clinched a finals series with a 5-19 FG performance, and that was against a decent defense, at best...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html
and I don't remember Jordan ever grabbing 15 boards in a Finals game either......give credit where it's due.
I think you are referring to his game against the Sonics...I am actually old enoughthat I remember without having to look it up? How many ASSISTS and boards did MJ have that game? Either way it was not a DO OR DIE game, I'm sure you see the difference...in fact, MJ never even played in a finals game 7.
I remember being disappointed in MJ in Game 6 against the JAzz in 98. He was shooting poorly, making bad decisions, had no assists, etc. WE all know how that ended! I
what do u mean it was not a do or die game? it was the hugest game of his career at that point...he loses that game, and he has to play a game 7 against seattle, after winning the first 3 games of the series. fact of the matter is, jordan played his part in winning, it just didn't happen to be on the scoring end of things for that game...just like kobe in this one...feel me?
and to answer your question, i saw that game live 8)
lol the game was 14 years ago...you were what...9 years old?
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
Funny, considering how much more MJ drove than Kobe ever has...
Regardless guys, Kobne has the best team, is likely the best player in bball...but, if this finals taught us anything, Kobe is NOT MJ.
He has yet to dominate a finals the way MJ did, and Kobe has SEVEN FINALS trips. He STILL doesn't have a top10 all time finals game, yet he has played SEVEN finals. Jordan has 3, arguably four so this case is closed.
Call me when Jordan grabs 15 boards with a broken finger, twisted ankle, and knee that requires surgery...the motivation? every team who has won the rebounding battle has won the game. nobody wills their team to victory the way Kobe has these past couple years. True warrior, and you've never seen anything like it...you know it.
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LMAO NIK STILL sucking Kobes dick off on dubcc after all these years!!!
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
We were talking about scoring. Not who is a better player...so youre Parker/Kidd comparison makes no sense. If you want to get into who is a better player, then it is even EASIER to prove Jordan was lol. The only arguing point that Kobe fans have had...is his scoring ability and Ive already shows how Jordan was not only the bigger scorer...but the more efficient scorer. And the refs arent the reason as him and Kobe shoot virtually the same amount of FT per minute played. Which as teecee said...is amazing considering Jordan attacked the basket more than Kobe who shoots more jumpers. Im sure you have enough basketball knowledge to know that you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop...than shooting outside jumpers. So how come Kobe is shooting almost the same amount of Free Throws? lol
Why are there free throw attempts per game similar? easy...Kobe gets hammered way more than Jordan did. he gets fouled on virtually every play...players do it because they know they can get away with it, unlike with Jordan...that, and the fact that it's the only way to defend him...also, Jordan never saw the type of double and triple teams that Kobe has seen...and the point I was making is that Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe in one game, but hasn't scored more...why is that? Because Kobe has a wider arsenal on offense...he can beat you in more ways, and this is really not even debated by many...PeACe
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
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LMAO NIK STILL sucking Kobes dick off on dubcc after all these years!!!
more like people still tryna downplay Kobe's greatness, after his second consecutive Finals MVP...Funny...that was your first post regarding Kobe after he just won the title, and it was about me...that's a little closer to sucking dick than discussing the actual game and statistics within the game.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
lol
Jordan has more field goal attempts yes. For his career he has also played one more year than Kobe has so far..not to mention the years Kobe played with Shaq. Obviously Kobe took less shots. Jordan never had another big time scorer who he could feed off of like Kobe had. More FGA's is irrelevant really, because Jordan also shot a higher percentage from the field. So he not only was the better scorer as far as averages, scoring titles, etc...he was also the more efficient scorer. As far as Jordan being untouchable lol. Jordan averaged 8.4 Free Throws/game (Playoffs included). Kobe is at 7.6 (Playoffs included). Youre talking LESS than 1 FTA per game difference lol. Hardly enough to close the gap between Kobe and Jordan. And when you do it on a per minute basis, its even closer. Seeing as how Kobe played the entire year his first two seasons...but only averaged 15 and 26 minutes per game those two seasons. It makes his FT per game look lower when compared to Jordan who played starter minutes from the beginning. Per minute, your talkin Jordan averaging a FTA every 4.6 minutes...and Kobe every 4.8 minutes. Pretty damn close for people who say Kobe doesnt get any calls lol
pretty stupid to try and argue the fact that Jordan was way more respected by the refs...pretty much NO ONE out there would argue that. But go ahead, whatever helps your side of shit, right? LOL. I meant to say, in a single game, Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe. Jordan's career high in field goal attempts are higher than Kobe's...yet Kobe's career high in scoring is higher than Jordan's...Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe as Tony Parker is a more efficient scorer than Jason Kidd...Does that make him a better player? No. It's just that Tony Parker doesn't have as much of an outside shot, so most of his shot attempts come within 5 feet of the basket...When Kobe is on fire, he is untouchable, from anywhere on the court...I've seen Kobe hit some shots that Jordan wasn't able to, and you can't really deny that, because Jordan wasn't known for his range...Fact of the matter is, we can debate this for hours, but don't argue the common notions, such as Jordan being protected by the refs, while Kobe's respect with the refs is still in question, globally...PeACe
We were talking about scoring. Not who is a better player...so youre Parker/Kidd comparison makes no sense. If you want to get into who is a better player, then it is even EASIER to prove Jordan was lol. The only arguing point that Kobe fans have had...is his scoring ability and Ive already shows how Jordan was not only the bigger scorer...but the more efficient scorer. And the refs arent the reason as him and Kobe shoot virtually the same amount of FT per minute played. Which as teecee said...is amazing considering Jordan attacked the basket more than Kobe who shoots more jumpers. Im sure you have enough basketball knowledge to know that you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop...than shooting outside jumpers. So how come Kobe is shooting almost the same amount of Free Throws? lol
Why are there free throw attempts per game similar? easy...Kobe gets hammered way more than Jordan did. he gets fouled on virtually every play...players do it because they know they can get away with it, unlike with Jordan...that, and the fact that it's the only way to defend him...also, Jordan never saw the type of double and triple teams that Kobe has seen...and the point I was making is that Jordan has attempted more field goals than Kobe in one game, but hasn't scored more...why is that? Because Kobe has a wider arsenal on offense...he can beat you in more ways, and this is really not even debated by many...PeACe
Their free throw attempts per game are similar because they are getting a similar amount of foul calls lol. You believe Kobe SO much, that you are actually buying into him crying on every play that he is getting fouled. Just because he complains about it, doesnt mean it happened. Even KLAC makes fun of the fact that Kobe thinks he is fouled everytime he doesnt score. Oh I know...KLAC is full of Laker Haters right? Even though its an LA/Laker station. Again NIK...why do coaches tell their players to drive to the hoop? ESPECIALLY...if the bigs, or the man defending you is in foul trouble?? Why? Because you are more likely to draw fouls driving to the hoop. You are arguing that Kobes game is more versatile and that he can score from the outside..etc...etc. If that is the case, then you also have to admit that Jordan was driving into the lane more. Common basketball knowledge tells you he would draw more fouls then. However, they have virtually the same FTA/minute. So it sounds to me...like Kobe is actually getting the benifit of the referees whistle more seeing as how he plays a style that is LESS likely to get fouled...but yet shoots the same amount of free throws.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
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Allow me to finish the threadstarters thought...
"Kobe...needs help to win a ring; PLAIN & SIMPLE."
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
He did, however, average over 40 for an entire series. As for Jortdan playing against double and triple teams, ever heard of the JORDAN RULES? You should read the book some time..
ANd how old were you when MJ won his last chip? I'd say no older than 10
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
As good as Boston's defense was their egos on offense and a complete lack of discipline more than made up for it. Why was Rondo covering Gasol on that play? Because one of the big headed stars of Boston decided to do something else. Because of the egos and blatant selfishness this Boston team was not as hard to beat as some of those early 90s Knicks or Suns teams. These Celts have more talent but they don't know how to play as a team as well as they should.
I have no idea what you're talking about..they play great as a unit, and not individually, and that's what made them get this far.
You have idea about basic basketball principles then. Of course we both now that isn't true. It's simply bad team play when 4s and 5s are outside the 3 point line taking shots with no one in the key to grab a board. It's also a bad team effort when you are up 13 points in the 3rd and instead of slowing the game down and running the clock by taking as long as you can to set up mid range shots with both the PF and C underneath for the possible rebound, or getting one of them open for a lay up, you are running up and down the court like time's almost up and taking wild shots.
JUST STOP FUCKING LYING!!!!!!!!!!!! Boston played poorly as a team. They can still play poorly as a team and Kobe can be the best on the court. Two reasons can be why the Lakers won. It's not one or the other.
P.S. I have a great Magic Johnson era team jacket that I wore proudly today, because the Lakers showed me something last night and I wanted to hail them. But Boston also showed me something last night; something terrible. Something like the late 70s Celtics.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
As good as Boston's defense was their egos on offense and a complete lack of discipline more than made up for it. Why was Rondo covering Gasol on that play? Because one of the big headed stars of Boston decided to do something else. Because of the egos and blatant selfishness this Boston team was not as hard to beat as some of those early 90s Knicks or Suns teams. These Celts have more talent but they don't know how to play as a team as well as they should.
I have no idea what you're talking about..they play great as a unit, and not individually, and that's what made them get this far.
You have idea about basic basketball principles then. Of course we both now that isn't true. It's simply bad team play when 4s and 5s are outside the 3 point line taking shots with no one in the key to grab a board. It's also a bad team effort when you are up 13 points in the 3rd and instead of slowing the game down and running the clock by taking as long as you can to set up mid range shots with both the PF and C underneath for the possible rebound, or getting one of them open for a lay up, you are running up and down the court like time's almost up and taking wild shots.
JUST STOP FUCKING LYING!!!!!!!!!!!! Boston played poorly as a team. They can still play poorly as a team and Kobe can be the best on the court. Two reasons can be why the Lakers won. It's not one or the other.
P.S. I have a great Magic Johnson era team jacket that I wore proudly today, because the Lakers showed me something last night and I wanted to hail them. But Boston also showed me something last night; something terrible. Something like the late 70s Celtics.
I dunno what you been watching, but the general consensus amongst analysts was clearly that Boston is an amazing defensive team, one of the best ever. It's not something I just pulled out my ass like you're acting LOL. Come on, man, they went got through the teams with the 1st and 2nd best records in the league before they got to us, so quit acting as if they were some joke of a team...I do, however, think Boston executed very poorly on offense in the 2nd half of Game 7, but on the other hand, you can also attribute that to the Lakers toughness and resilience. Fact of the matter is, we won, and we did it against the team we wanted to 8)...PeACe
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THERE'S ALREADY A LAKERS THREAD, SOMEBODY SHOULD LOCK THIS THREAD
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I do, however, think Boston executed very poorly on offense in the 2nd half of Game 7, but on the other hand, you can also attribute that to the Lakers toughness and resilience. Fact of the matter is, we won, and we did it against the team we wanted to 8)...PeACe
The Lakers resilience had nothing to do with Boston rushing down the court like they were behind with the time running out and having their big men take outside shots with no one in the key to even attempt the rebound. I don't care how they played the rest of the playoffs, but playing like a unit against a Cavs team that gives up easily means little to me.
Just tell me this; does a Larry Bird Celtics lose to these Lakers with a 13 point lead in the 3rd quarter? I just can't imagine how it could be possible. It wasn't just poor execution. It was piss poor strategy. The Lakers have 1 leader on the bench and 1 leader on the court. The new Celtics, who I was never a fan of to begin with, have 3 leaders on the court, and none on the bench. That's the way I saw it in game 7 and game 6, and game 3. Larry would have settled his team down and paced the game to run as much clock between plays as possible. And if Larry wasn't the one in the middle getting the boards, he'd make sure Parrish and McHale were underneath when he's taking shots, and you better fucking believe that McHale or Parrish aren't taking wild 3 pointers with no one underneath. It was sloppy basket ball.
I mention Larry because there are still teens in my neighbourhood that hold on to the idea that Paul Pierce is a superior player to Bird.
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So, would this game 7 game by Kobe now be considered his best finals game ever? The one he will be remembered for?
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So, would this game 7 game by Kobe now be considered his best finals game ever? The one he will be remembered for?
His career is still going. I'm sure he's got more left in the tank to give us something more dominant than what he gave us. He played, especially considering his finger, but you know he wants a Jordan like finals showcase to end a series, before he retires.
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So, would this game 7 game by Kobe now be considered his best finals game ever? The one he will be remembered for?
His career is still going. I'm sure he's got more left in the tank to give us something more dominant than what he gave us. He played, especially considering his finger, but you know he wants a Jordan like finals showcase to end a series, before he retires.
You are completely right, but with the state of the league (great players but few good teams) and an extremely talented and tall frontcourt of the Lakers, I can't see Kobe ever needing to take over like Jordan, as badly as he wants it. I mean, Jordan had Rodman avg/ 4 pts a game, BIll Wennington, etc, while Kobe has Gasol, Odom, and Bynum. IF Bynum stays healthy, the Lakers should get a few more...
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
LOL you are really runnin out of shit arent you?
NOW your argument is that Kobe's thought process before game 7 was..."I know that rebounds are the most important thing, so Im going to grab 15 boards...and shoot 6-24 from the field lol.
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^thats not what i said, genius...rethink what u just said.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
LOL you are really runnin out of shit arent you?
NOW your argument is that Kobe's thought process before game 7 was..."I know that rebounds are the most important thing, so Im going to grab 15 boards...and shoot 6-24 from the field lol.
Obviously...doesn't that make sense?
His entire career he's made a point of grabbing rebounds before even thinking the word "shoot".
That's why he was forcing up shots in double teams in the first half because he figured that he was so set on grabbing the rebounds that he might as well just close his eyes & throw up turn-a-rounds, while falling out of bounds in the hopes of grabbing more of them.
Pay no mind to the tallest man on the Celtics sitting in that ridiculous green, striped dress shirt; that Perkins fella. He made no difference in the Lakers/Kobe's rebounding game; pre-game I heard Phil telling them to forget scoring, forget getting good looks; just grab rebounds & now we have back-to-back champs.
Speaking of Phil, the guy just knows how to win; he took arguably the two greatest players of all time, with the most dominate big man ever & won 11 rings! How impressive.
I mean, I made the point that Kobe had a strong cast this year & that might have been a reason for winning, but then I was informed that this Jordan fella had an "even better" cast; Phil must have a gameplan drawn up from God or something.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
LOL you are really runnin out of shit arent you?
NOW your argument is that Kobe's thought process before game 7 was..."I know that rebounds are the most important thing, so Im going to grab 15 boards...and shoot 6-24 from the field lol.
Obviously...doesn't that make sense?
His entire career he's made a point of grabbing rebounds before even thinking the word "shoot".
That's why he was forcing up shots in double teams in the first half because he figured that he was so set on grabbing the rebounds that he might as well just close his eyes & throw up turn-a-rounds, while falling out of bounds in the hopes of grabbing more of them.
Pay no mind to the tallest man on the Celtics sitting in that ridiculous green, striped dress shirt; that Perkins fella. He made no difference in the Lakers/Kobe's rebounding game; pre-game I heard Phil telling them to forget scoring, forget getting good looks; just grab rebounds & now we have back-to-back champs.
Speaking of Phil, the guy just knows how to win; he took arguably the two greatest players of all time, with the most dominate big man ever & won 11 rings! How impressive.
I mean, I made the point that Kobe had a strong cast this year & that might have been a reason for winning, but then I was informed that this Jordan fella had an "even better" cast; Phil must have a gameplan drawn up from God or something.
lol Phil has benefited greatly from the players he has inherited. He managed to win 6 titles sitting on the sidelines while Jordan ran the team....and from that point on, his title count allowed everything he does to be considered "genius" lol. I would never say he isnt one of the greatest coaches ever. You gotta include him just cus of the titles. But Phil could fall asleep on his little high chair during a game....and the media would say "Look at Phil...he is so great...he trusts his players so much that he can sleep during a game....thats the Zen master"
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^lol, exactly.
Also, yeah, I'm not saying he isn't one of the best but look at Doc Rivers for example; had the worst record in Celtics history & now he's regarded as good because three future HOF's & a sick young pg saved his ass lol.
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the only players who can compare to MJ in terms of career stats are Wilt and Lebron. and even Lebron is about 4 PPG away from Jordan in his prime (who was about a 32 PPG guy)
the only players who can compare in the terms of winning are Bill Russell and Robert Horry lol.
lol at stats, what about in terms of skills, clutch, taking over games, being the finisher, and being the best.
its either going to be kobe or mj
none of those old school guys come close to kobe or MJ in terms of being the best player. but MJ didnt even play against a d-wade, lebron james, chris paul, the NBA has much more talent right now than they ever did.
lebron doesnt come close, this guys overrated i wouldnt be suprised if he joins the t-mac/grant hill club by the end of the career.
I wouldnt use the level of competition as an argument FOR Kobe. It would actually hurt considering the league has turned SO much more into an offensive league geared towards allowing players to score at will or get to the line. Jordan was playing against bruising defenses where it was ok to simply knock people on their ass. Kobe would seriously curl up in a little ball and cry if he had to see Oakley, Mason or even Starks every year in the playoffs lol. Artest woudl be the soft player on those old Knicks teams.
The problem is, Kobe stans like to use stats to argue...but then when the stats go the other way they try to pretend as if stats dont matter.
You cant measure "skill" when you are talking about best EVER, because skill levels of players ALWAYS improves from generation to generation. If you took Wilt for example....Dwight Howard is more SKILLED then he ever was. And Dwight isnt that skilled by todays standards. But you would NEVER say that Howard is as great as Wilt. Different age of Basketball. You can only compare a players skill...for THEIR time. And Jordan was head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There were NEVER any questions as to whether he was the best basketball player in the world. Kobe is constantly in the midst of a debate as to whether he is the best player in the NBA right now. If you were watchin basketball during Jordans era, no one ever said that anyone else was the best. As a matter of face, Jordan was already considered the greatest all time before his career was over. Thats why Kobe can never be on his level.
This is a lie, straight up...Jordan wasn't considered the best until he won a title, in the 90s.
LOL At what point in Kobe's career was he ever considered the hands down greatest player in the game? LOL. He is ALWAYS part of a debate. My point is that Jordan wasnt part of a debate except for early in his career. And if you dont know that Jordan was considered the greatest of all time BEFORE he was done...then you simply dont know your basketball. Point blank, Kobe just can not compete with that. He is much closer to Magic than he is to Jordan in that Magic was typically part of a debate as well. You can hate it all you want, but Kobe will never been seen or respected on Jordans level. He could win the title this year...and the next 2 and would still not be considered as great as Jordan. MJs GOAT status was cemented 2/3's of the way through his career lol.
Here are just a few reasons Kobe wont catch him
Jordan- 6 Titles, 6 Finals MVP Awards, 5 NBA MVP Awards, 10 Scoring titles, 3 Steals titles, Rookie of the Year, NBA All Rookie First team, ESPN's Greatest Athlete of the 20th century
Bryant- 4 Titles*, 1 Finals MVP Award, 1 NBA MVP Award, 2 Scoring titles, NBA All Rookie Second team
I left out accolades where they are either equal (ie, NBA All Star MVP)...or where Kobe still has a shot at catching him (ie. All Star Appearances, or ALL NBA First team)
As for the accomplishments that Kobe could catch up to Jordan on...you also have to remember that Jordan played 15 seasons and took 2 breaks. Its safe to assume that in between the three peats...Jordan would have been an All NBA First team player, more than likely the scoring champ, definitely a starter in the All Star game...etc...etc. Kobe has played 14 seasons already, so when its all said and done he will have had more years in the league...with far less accomplishments. Definintely a no brainer here lol
Whether Kobe's been considered hands down the best, or not, he's been just that, and it's evident to those who know that game...it's clear that there was no one of LeBron's marketing stature during Jordan's era...Jordan got ALL the attention, hype, and marketing ever since the day Magic stepped down. Jordan WAS the NBA. Nowadays, you have the D-Wades, the LeBron's, players who are getting just as much, if not, more attention and exposure than Kobe, while not really being on Kobe's level in terms of skills and accomplishments. The marketing aspect of it has really skewed peoples opinion. Kobe will never be the face of the NBA, the way that Jordan was. Doesn't mean he cannot surpass him in terms of skill and accomplishments...PeACe
I agree with you on the marketing tip, BUT...how exactly, will Kobe PASS MJ in terms of accomplishments? Forget the marketing BS, and lets talk straight on the court. What exactly would it take?
I'd be the first to admit,, Kobe, when he is on, is a better scorer than Mj, but MJ was more consistent and effected the game in more ways (steals, blocks, scored MORE, more assistsm rebounds, better shooting percentage, etc).
So, what does Kobe have to do, in your eyes NIK, to pass MJ in terms of accomplishments? We both know Kobe will end up playing about 6 more seasons than Mj...so I guess Kobe will get the games played over him ;)
I dont even see how Kobe is a better scorer than MJ lol. Kobe plays in a completely different era where the league has really encouraged offense with its rule changes AND where defensive teams arent as good defensively as they were in MJ's era. Also, 10 scoring titles to 2 scoring titles for Kobe. 8 times averaging over 30 ppg in a season to 3 for Kobe. After next year Kobe will have the same amount of years played as Jordan (again, since Jordan left twice). I doubt next year Kobe will get 8 scoring titles to catch Jordan lol Kobe's 81 point game is all that helps him in this argument. But does it really? He scored MORE points then Jordan did in his 69 point game. But he wasnt more efficient, he just shot more.
Stat Lines Points Rebs Assts Steals FGM FGA FG%
Jordan- 69 18 6 4 23 37 .621
Bryant- 81 6 2 3 28 46 .608
it doesnt matter, Jordan has put up more field goal attempts than Kobe has, and has never scored that much...and you're forgetting, Jordan was untouchable. you literally couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting the foul called on you. the NBA made him untouchable, and Kobe clearly does not get anywhere near that amount of respect from the officials. I mean, you see how much Kobe gets hammered without the call being made...that NEVER would happen to Jordan...EVER. Jordan had it so much better, it's ridiculous. also, Jordan never faced a team like the Celtics in the Finals, with such tenacious defense..I mean, really, look at what Jordan went through in that threepeat run...the Jazz and the Sonics...LOL. Good teams, no doubt, but come on, now.
Oh and...never faced teams like the Celtics? lol. The Celtics played like shit during this finals. It went 7 games because the Lakers played like shit also lol. Im not saying the Celtics are a bad team. Obviously they arent. But I would take those Sonic and Jazz teams over this aging Celtic squad that the Lakers were lucky to beat.
both teams played like shit on offense, because both teams played tremendous on defense...what dont u get? LOL. LMAO@"Lakers were lucky to beat Boston"...Jordan was lucky not to get the offensive foul called against Bryon Russell on his last shot in a Bulls uniform...Lakers finding a way to win a grind-it-out game was not luck...it was PASSION.
lol Their poor offense made the defense look good. It wasnt just amazing defensive stops...it was sloppy play on offense by both teams. Seriously, this was one of the worst finals series Ive ever seen as far as quality of play. The Lakers deserve the title, they won...point blank. But I guarantee you this isnt what you or any other Kobe fan was hoping for. You guys were hoping to see Kobe dominate and solidify his spot in history. He didnt though, and everyone knows that. You just hate to accept it. Its a championship, so good for him and the Lakers. But yes, luck played a role. Passion too, I wont take that away from them. But I DO believe if Perkins played...the Celtics might have won game 7.
what do u mean this isn't what we were hoping for? we just took out boston in a finals game 7, how fucking stupid can u make urself sound?! lmao...this is everything we were hoping for and much, MUCH more...laker fans are straight thizzin, all across LA....and the mufuckin world.
You wont admit it on here, but we all know. You were hoping for a dominant performance by Kobe. Obviously hoping for a Laker championship. But you wanted to be able to come on here and say "SEE...Kobe just showed he is the greatest EVER!!!!" lol But you cant...cus his play was...eh.
LOL...he grabbed 15 boards in a Finals game, because he knew the winner of the rebounding battle won every game of the series. Jordan never pulled that many rebounds in a Finals game. What makes scoring more important than rebounding, especially in a grind it out game like that? Give Kobe his props and STFU.
LOL you are really runnin out of shit arent you?
NOW your argument is that Kobe's thought process before game 7 was..."I know that rebounds are the most important thing, so Im going to grab 15 boards...and shoot 6-24 from the field lol.
Obviously...doesn't that make sense?
His entire career he's made a point of grabbing rebounds before even thinking the word "shoot".
That's why he was forcing up shots in double teams in the first half because he figured that he was so set on grabbing the rebounds that he might as well just close his eyes & throw up turn-a-rounds, while falling out of bounds in the hopes of grabbing more of them.
Pay no mind to the tallest man on the Celtics sitting in that ridiculous green, striped dress shirt; that Perkins fella. He made no difference in the Lakers/Kobe's rebounding game; pre-game I heard Phil telling them to forget scoring, forget getting good looks; just grab rebounds & now we have back-to-back champs.
Speaking of Phil, the guy just knows how to win; he took arguably the two greatest players of all time, with the most dominate big man ever & won 11 rings! How impressive.
I mean, I made the point that Kobe had a strong cast this year & that might have been a reason for winning, but then I was informed that this Jordan fella had an "even better" cast; Phil must have a gameplan drawn up from God or something.
lol Phil has benefited greatly from the players he has inherited. He managed to win 6 titles sitting on the sidelines while Jordan ran the team....and from that point on, his title count allowed everything he does to be considered "genius" lol. I would never say he isnt one of the greatest coaches ever. You gotta include him just cus of the titles. But Phil could fall asleep on his little high chair during a game....and the media would say "Look at Phil...he is so great...he trusts his players so much that he can sleep during a game....thats the Zen master"
Godless people like you wouldn't understand Phil Jackson in the first place...
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
And if Ben Wallace was underneath the boards while Rasheed was going outside that'd be one thing, but when you are up 13 points in the 3rd there is no need for anyone to be shooting 3s, much less you're 7 footer. The way Boston played with the lead was like an NFL team being up by 3 TDs late in the game and deciding to run a shot gun spread. So either Doc Rivers is just a complete fool who doesn't understand how to slow the game down and eat the clock, or he couldn't control his ego mega stars.
I can't tell you what plenty of other coaches would have done, but I know what I've seen in the Phil Jackson run teams and what I've seen in most of the test of the league. You say plenty of guys could have won with those players, I say plenty of teams could have won this year with Phil Jackson. And I'm not even a fan of the guy. I hated it when he broke the Auerbach record and I hated the Bulls in the 90s.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.
so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.
so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.
Nobody said they wouldn't have any titles, genius...but they wouldn't have as many. Learn to use your common sense instead of speakin out your ass all the time.
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Cham; Phil's importance comes from his ability to keep superstars from thinking they're bigger than the team. The NBA is filled with ego-driven head cases and Phil Jackson is one of the very few that can run his team like an NFL coach. He has authority. It's not the game plan. This isn't a Rex Ryan playbook of blitzes and disguised coverages. Basketball is much simpler than Football. A few plays here and there but in the end it's much more up to execution on the court. What Jackson has shown he can do better than any other coach is get NBA players to listen and follow orders. Doc Rivers on this year's Lakers would have lost control of the team and Boston probably would have won. We may have seen Gasol running around outside the 3 point line trying to be Reggie Miller like Rasheed Wallace was doing. That shit doesn't happen on a Phil Jackson team.
Sheed had won in Detriot shooting the 3 ball; that's his game.
I'm not saying Phil is worthless, he's a great coach; one of the best ever, but I'm sure plenty of coaches in the league could be in the same exact seat Phil is in now, if they got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol.
Some great teams, even on paper, favorites from the start & I guess he "keeps it together", but it's not like it's something only Phil has lol.
I'm sure after winning with Jordan, Kobe & Shaq were almost star-stuck to be in his presence early in their LA careers.
But how much control did he really have this year? Kobe was basically physically falling apart & he was bitching Phil into giving him his 40+ minutes a night.
phil has threepeated every time he's won...do you actually realize how hard that is to threepeat once, let alone three times? and these teams he took over had failed with the same cast, before he stepped in. Jordan failed with Doug Collins, Shaq and Kobe failed with Del Harris...It's not like he took over great teams that were already winning rings, so try n give credit where it's due, if you may.
so in other words...Kobe needed Phil in order to win any titles. Man, without Phil....no titles for Jordan....Kobe....Shaq. Well....Shaq won one in Miami. So I guess Shaq would have 1....while Jordan and Kobe would have none. That would really shoot those two pretty far down on the greatest players of all times list. I mean...with no championships and all.
Nobody said they wouldn't have any titles, genius...but they wouldn't have as many. Learn to use your common sense instead of speakin out your ass all the time.
lol Kobe is so great. He's the greatest. You should get an "I Heart Kobe" shirt.