West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: whoisthis on August 29, 2013, 07:01:58 PM
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Surprised to not see any major topics in regards to Boxing or MMA floating around.
Boxing has had a great year this year. MMA's struggled, in my mind, due to injuries to some of it's bigger names, but is still going strong.
What fights are people most looking forward to?
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MMA is basically mandingo cock fighting so you might get a response from Elano
i did watch the lsat Mayweather fight, hoping he'd lose
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Mayweather vs Guerrero was a laugher from the moment it was announced. I was live at the fight when Guerrero beat Berto and called out Floyd. I told my wife then that he was not ready. He got in the ring and got worked.
Canelo, I feel, is still too young to fight Floyd. Plus he's got really questionable stamina, which is a must against Floyd. If he's able to tag Floyd early and hurt Floyd, he has a shot. But, if by round 4 it's 3-0 Floyd on the cards, it's over. Floyd's confidence will be sky high and Canelo will play right into his hands.
Honestly, I think only Pac-Man has a real shot at beating Floyd. He's fast enough. He doesn't just throw a straight jab, he throws at weird angles and is constantly pressuring fighters, which Floyd hates. But, that's a pipe dream and will never happen.
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yeah Pacman vs Floyd would have been amazing 1-2 years ago.....right now it'd still be good but those two hate each other and will never agree on a date until they are both way past their primes
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yeah Pacman vs Floyd would have been amazing 1-2 years ago.....right now it'd still be good but those two hate each other and will never agree on a date until they are both way past their primes
No doubt about the fact that a fight with Floyd and Manny 2 years ago would've been HUGE. This fight with Canelo is going to be the biggest PPV in fight history probably, but it would've been nothing compared to what Floyd/Manny could've been.
The problem then was Golden Boy being upset with Manny that they were no longer able to get a cut of his fights, as Top Rank was his outright promoter (they used to split Manny). After that, the pissing match between Arum and De La Hoya started. Small time fights were being made and so on. So, the promoters screwed that up then. Now, Floyd is pissing all over the fight even though Manny is offering him a fair deal. Floyd will never accept someones offer, he feels he's lost then. The deal HAS to be in his favor and has to be his idea. So, it'll probably never happen.
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Looking forward to the next mayweather fight. Dudes just on another level.
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This fight with Canelo is going to be the biggest PPV in fight history probably, but it would've been nothing compared to what Floyd/Manny could've been.
While I agree with the latter, I disagree with the former. Mayweather-Alvarez has no chance of beating De La Hoya-Mayweather as the biggest PPV fight in history. Alvarez doesn't have THAT big of a following, and the fact that HD PPV boxing fight prices (I hear that this one is supposed to be $75) isn't helping.
The problem then was Golden Boy being upset with Manny that they were no longer able to get a cut of his fights, as Top Rank was his outright promoter (they used to split Manny). After that, the pissing match between Arum and De La Hoya started. Small time fights were being made and so on. So, the promoters screwed that up then. Now, Floyd is pissing all over the fight even though Manny is offering him a fair deal. Floyd will never accept someones offer, he feels he's lost then. The deal HAS to be in his favor and has to be his idea. So, it'll probably never happen.
Top Rank and Golden Boy didn't exactly "used to split Manny." It was just some legal agreement that came about since Golden Boy was going to sign Manny (and he had accepted a cash bonus), though Top Rank convinced Manny to sign with them instead, and he returned the bonus to Golden Boy, who argued in court that Manny's original acceptance of the bonus enacted the contract. The court ruled that Manny was with Top Rank and not Golden Boy, but Golden Boy would get a small cut of what Manny's fights grossed for a certain length of time. During that time, Top Rank and Golden Boy tried to play nice with each other and set up fights together (i.e. Pacquiao-Marquez II, De La Hoya-Pacquiao, Mosley-Margarito, Pacquiao-Hatton). De La De La Hoya-Cotto was planned, but it got canned when Cotto lost to Margarito. After that, he was considering fighting either Hatton or Pacquiao. (A lot of people who discredit Pacquiao's victory over Oscar by saying that Oscar had to drop down to 147 for him don't realize that he was planning to go down to welterweight anyway, against Cotto.).
I agree though about the Floyd shit. But when he's undefeated and the biggest draw, it's kind of hard to convince him to let someone else dictate the terms. But it's still fucked up when he goes back on his word and puts up new roadblocks. But again, he's in a position to fuck with people like that.
Though he needs to stop with the punk ass fights against lame opponents (i.e. Ortiz and Guerrero). But I don't doubt that Golden Boy is hoping to set up Mayweather-Khan at some point.
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MMA is basically mandingo cock fighting so you might get a response from Elano
i did watch the lsat Mayweather fight, hoping he'd lose
UFC is very entertaining, if all you can think of is "mandingo cock fighting" your heads in the wrong place bro. And to each his own but MMA is lightyears ahead of boxing in terms of entertainment.
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MMA is basically mandingo cock fighting so you might get a response from Elano
i did watch the lsat Mayweather fight, hoping he'd lose
UFC is very entertaining, if all you can think of is "mandingo cock fighting" your heads in the wrong place bro. And to each his own but MMA is lightyears ahead of boxing in terms of entertainment.
It's run more efficiently because egos don't get in the way they do in boxing, especially with there not being the huge issue of promoters butting heads, or fighters not wanting to fight other fighters for whatever reason.
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MMA is basically mandingo cock fighting so you might get a response from Elano
i did watch the lsat Mayweather fight, hoping he'd lose
UFC is very entertaining, if all you can think of is "mandingo cock fighting" your heads in the wrong place bro. And to each his own but MMA is lightyears ahead of boxing in terms of entertainment.
lmao the mandingo cockfighting line is from a photo i found haha
i've watched some MMA at other peoples places but it's not anything i care for. i might watch ronda rousy fight meesha tate simply because those two TRULY hate eachother
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This fight with Canelo is going to be the biggest PPV in fight history probably, but it would've been nothing compared to what Floyd/Manny could've been.
While I agree with the latter, I disagree with the former. Mayweather-Alvarez has no chance of beating De La Hoya-Mayweather as the biggest PPV fight in history. Alvarez doesn't have THAT big of a following, and the fact that HD PPV boxing fight prices (I hear that this one is supposed to be $75) isn't helping.
According everything I've read and things I've heard, this is definitely on it's way to being bigger than DLH/Mayweather. Sure, the Price is different, but in terms of total buys, CC in Vegas & Theaters, as well as Tickets being sold for the Live Event, it's got a strong chance. I am in L.A., so my perception is a bit skewed based on the demographics around me, but this fight is getting a lot of buzz. Canelo is the biggest Mexican Born fighter since Chavez. He doesn't have a huge following Nationwide, but amongst the Mexican Community is humongous. Remember, this fight is also taking place around Mexican Independence day. Mexicans are some of the most loyal consumers in Boxing.
The problem then was Golden Boy being upset with Manny that they were no longer able to get a cut of his fights, as Top Rank was his outright promoter (they used to split Manny). After that, the pissing match between Arum and De La Hoya started. Small time fights were being made and so on. So, the promoters screwed that up then. Now, Floyd is pissing all over the fight even though Manny is offering him a fair deal. Floyd will never accept someones offer, he feels he's lost then. The deal HAS to be in his favor and has to be his idea. So, it'll probably never happen.
Top Rank and Golden Boy didn't exactly "used to split Manny." It was just some legal agreement that came about since Golden Boy was going to sign Manny (and he had accepted a cash bonus), though Top Rank convinced Manny to sign with them instead, and he returned the bonus to Golden Boy, who argued in court that Manny's original acceptance of the bonus enacted the contract. The court ruled that Manny was with Top Rank and not Golden Boy, but Golden Boy would get a small cut of what Manny's fights grossed for a certain length of time. During that time, Top Rank and Golden Boy tried to play nice with each other and set up fights together (i.e. Pacquiao-Marquez II, De La Hoya-Pacquiao, Mosley-Margarito, Pacquiao-Hatton). De La De La Hoya-Cotto was planned, but it got canned when Cotto lost to Margarito. After that, he was considering fighting either Hatton or Pacquiao. (A lot of people who discredit Pacquiao's victory over Oscar by saying that Oscar had to drop down to 147 for him don't realize that he was planning to go down to welterweight anyway, against Cotto.).[/quote]
Thanks for the breakdown. Obviously, we'll never know for sure, but if Margarito would've never cheated to beat Cotto that night, I think the world of Boxing would've been different today. What happened to Cotto that night pretty much ruined his career. He was never really the same after that.
I agree though about the Floyd shit. But when he's undefeated and the biggest draw, it's kind of hard to convince him to let someone else dictate the terms. But it's still fucked up when he goes back on his word and puts up new roadblocks. But again, he's in a position to fuck with people like that.
Though he needs to stop with the punk ass fights against lame opponents (i.e. Ortiz and Guerrero). But I don't doubt that Golden Boy is hoping to set up Mayweather-Khan at some point.
This is the problem with Boxing. It'll always be this way. The Fighter holds all the power. In the case of Fighter vs. Fighter, the most popular always wins out.
Golden Boy/Showtime know that there's just a small number of fighters even close to being ready to fight Floyd. They're throwing the hype machine around a lot of folks. I saw Khan fight Carlos Molina here in L.A. and he looked solid (plus Molina looked horrible). I also saw him fight Diaz. I think he needs to beat Alexander decisively to make me believe he's ready to fight a guy like Floyd.
I was at the Guerrero/Berto fight when Guerrero called out Floyd. I knew that was going to be a joke of a fight. Same thing with Ortiz. He wasn't ready.
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MMA is basically mandingo cock fighting so you might get a response from Elano
i did watch the lsat Mayweather fight, hoping he'd lose
UFC is very entertaining, if all you can think of is "mandingo cock fighting" your heads in the wrong place bro. And to each his own but MMA is lightyears ahead of boxing in terms of entertainment.
It's run more efficiently because egos don't get in the way they do in boxing, especially with there not being the huge issue of promoters butting heads, or fighters not wanting to fight other fighters for whatever reason.
The Sport of MMA is still very young. Professional Boxing as we know it has been around forever. MMA as we know is still growing. With that said, the money is still growing as well. When you compare the money even 2nd tiered Boxers are making, it's more than most main eventers in MMA. But, being that UFC, Bellator etc. are ran as "Leagues" instead of Promotions, the control lies with the people running the Leagues. That does make for a much simpler and clean cut business model. But, I don't know that it lasts forever. These MMA fighters are going to want to get paid more sooner than later.
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MMA started like 20 years ago, right?
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According everything I've read and things I've heard, this is definitely on it's way to being bigger than DLH/Mayweather. Sure, the Price is different, but in terms of total buys, CC in Vegas & Theaters, as well as Tickets being sold for the Live Event, it's got a strong chance. I am in L.A., so my perception is a bit skewed based on the demographics around me, but this fight is getting a lot of buzz. Canelo is the biggest Mexican Born fighter since Chavez. He doesn't have a huge following Nationwide, but amongst the Mexican Community is humongous. Remember, this fight is also taking place around Mexican Independence day. Mexicans are some of the most loyal consumers in Boxing.
I can respect your opinion. Mine is just that it won't break it. While Mayweather is obviously bigger now than he was in 2007, he still had a very loyal following that was definitely not small. Oscar was the Golden Boy and always pulled in solid numbers and was a guaranteed PPV success, just like Floyd and Manny are today. Additionally, Floyd sold that fight extremely well... I remember watching the HBO 24/7s for that and thinking I was really entertained. I'm not saying that Canelo doesn't have a following, but it's not quite the same following that Floyd had for himself going into the De La Hoya fight. And it's not like Mexican boxing fans support Canelo (meaning that they actually buy his fight or attend it in person) far more than they have supported other Mexican fighters before him... Marquez, Morales, Barrera, etc. all had the support of the Mexican communities as well. But it was Oscar who was consistently a PPV smash. Marquez does numbers but not like any of the big (PPV) boys, and I'd say he gets more support from the Mexican community than Canelo does. But Mexican Independence Day doesn't really mean much, people say the same thing about Cinco de Mayo being such a big draw (and it is), so it's not like every Mexican holiday equates to huge numbers.
Thanks for the breakdown. Obviously, we'll never know for sure, but if Margarito would've never cheated to beat Cotto that night, I think the world of Boxing would've been different today. What happened to Cotto that night pretty much ruined his career. He was never really the same after that.
Yeah. I wouldn't say it "ruined" Cotto's career, but it obviously took its toll on him mentally, especially with him having been undefeated up until that point. But a lot of champions not named Floyd Mayweather have taken losses and bounced back and become even better. But he tore up Margarito the second time around (though the damage that Manny did to Margarito made it easy for Cotto to re-open that wound) and also ended up getting two extremely lucrative fights (against Manny and Floyd) that paid him handsomely. Ruined career or not, he got himself a Mayweather fight. Remember that before Cotto took his first loss, Floyd didn't really want to fight him. I think Floyd was asked about Cotto after he beat Oscar, and he kind of brushed him aside.
This is the problem with Boxing. It'll always be this way. The Fighter holds all the power. In the case of Fighter vs. Fighter, the most popular always wins out.
Golden Boy/Showtime know that there's just a small number of fighters even close to being ready to fight Floyd. They're throwing the hype machine around a lot of folks. I saw Khan fight Carlos Molina here in L.A. and he looked solid (plus Molina looked horrible). I also saw him fight Diaz. I think he needs to beat Alexander decisively to make me believe he's ready to fight a guy like Floyd.
Mayweather-Khan should never be made, unless Khan suddenly starts killing elite boxers out of nowhere. If Floyd talks about Manny not being a worthy opponent anymore after taking two Ls -- one a split decision (which 99% of the boxing community knows was a total robbery that was clearly a UD win for Manny) and the other a legit KO -- then by that same logic, Khan shouldn't be worthy either, since he also caught himself two Ls as well -- one also a split decision (though it's more of a debatable loss and not quite a robbery) and the other a TKO. Khan's opponents that he lost to weren't even elite fighters either, whereas Manny's opponents were far more talented. But if Khan obliterates Alexander (meaning a KO/TKO within the first half of the fight), then that will encourage Floyd (and Golden Boy) to consider him as an option just because it's convenient and marketable, but I think he'll need a more legit win on top of that... perhaps avenging either of his losses or, assuming Danny Garcia loses this month, taking on Matthysse and beating him. Then I'd say that he could be a respectable opponent. But definitely not one of my top three choices.
I was at the Guerrero/Berto fight when Guerrero called out Floyd. I knew that was going to be a joke of a fight. Same thing with Ortiz. He wasn't ready.
And therein lies the problem, Floyd picks people with a little bit of buzz and some big recent wins (so it doesn't look like he's picking a bum), but their inexperience is disguised as being young, fresh, hungry, etc. all for the sake of selling the fight and making it sound like the biggest challenge out there. It's not to say that those opponents were bitches, but we knew how they would turn out, and we weren't really hungry for those fights either. Ortiz made stupid mistakes, right when it looked like he was starting to catch his stride. But then again, people inconveniently forgot how he quit against Maidana a couple years prior. Again, another young fighter who came up on a big win against Berto, then suddenly was in the Mayweather sweepstakes whose prior losses were forgiven. And Robert Guerrero was also a fucking nobody who came up off of beating Berto (when he was already damaged goods from having lost to Ortiz and tested positive for banned substances).
But I can respect that Floyd did take on Mosley (after his peak though), Cotto (also after his peak and after two TKO losses) and Canelo (big, strong opponent but still very young). But I really don't want his next opponents to be some bullshit ones.
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MMA started like 20 years ago, right?
Yeah the UFC started 20 years ago. Far different from what it is today. Organized MMA really started around the late 90s.
According everything I've read and things I've heard, this is definitely on it's way to being bigger than DLH/Mayweather. Sure, the Price is different, but in terms of total buys, CC in Vegas & Theaters, as well as Tickets being sold for the Live Event, it's got a strong chance. I am in L.A., so my perception is a bit skewed based on the demographics around me, but this fight is getting a lot of buzz. Canelo is the biggest Mexican Born fighter since Chavez. He doesn't have a huge following Nationwide, but amongst the Mexican Community is humongous. Remember, this fight is also taking place around Mexican Independence day. Mexicans are some of the most loyal consumers in Boxing.
I can respect your opinion. Mine is just that it won't break it. While Mayweather is obviously bigger now than he was in 2007, he still had a very loyal following that was definitely not small. Oscar was the Golden Boy and always pulled in solid numbers and was a guaranteed PPV success, just like Floyd and Manny are today. Additionally, Floyd sold that fight extremely well... I remember watching the HBO 24/7s for that and thinking I was really entertained. I'm not saying that Canelo doesn't have a following, but it's not quite the same following that Floyd had for himself going into the De La Hoya fight. And it's not like Mexican boxing fans support Canelo (meaning that they actually buy his fight or attend it in person) far more than they have supported other Mexican fighters before him... Marquez, Morales, Barrera, etc. all had the support of the Mexican communities as well. But it was Oscar who was consistently a PPV smash. Marquez does numbers but not like any of the big (PPV) boys, and I'd say he gets more support from the Mexican community than Canelo does. But Mexican Independence Day doesn't really mean much, people say the same thing about Cinco de Mayo being such a big draw (and it is), so it's not like every Mexican holiday equates to huge numbers.
Canelo is a different animal than Marquez, Morales, Barrera and the like. Those were Mexican Warriors, not really Superstars. Canelo has the following and the hype (in Mexico) that only a few fighters have had in the last 20 years. I was at the Presser for Canelo/Floyd and Marquez/Bradley. Obviously, the turn outs will not be even, but in terms of sheer support, Canelo won out when you compare all 4 fighters. But, Canelo's fan base that showed up wasn't really your Mexican American, they were more Mexican National than anything else. Also, based on my conversations with other fight fans, namely Mexican fight fans... his hype is real. Mexican Independence Day and Cinco De Mayo aren't the reason for big numbers, if this fell on October 3rd, it'd sell. But, they are used for a reason. You associate those weekends with those Holidays. Like the UFC with their Superbowl Weekend fights. Those are weekends where people feel looser with their wallet. Have friends and family over for a party and need something entertaining on.
Thanks for the breakdown. Obviously, we'll never know for sure, but if Margarito would've never cheated to beat Cotto that night, I think the world of Boxing would've been different today. What happened to Cotto that night pretty much ruined his career. He was never really the same after that.
Yeah. I wouldn't say it "ruined" Cotto's career, but it obviously took its toll on him mentally, especially with him having been undefeated up until that point. But a lot of champions not named Floyd Mayweather have taken losses and bounced back and become even better. But he tore up Margarito the second time around (though the damage that Manny did to Margarito made it easy for Cotto to re-open that wound) and also ended up getting two extremely lucrative fights (against Manny and Floyd) that paid him handsomely. Ruined career or not, he got himself a Mayweather fight. Remember that before Cotto took his first loss, Floyd didn't really want to fight him. I think Floyd was asked about Cotto after he beat Oscar, and he kind of brushed him aside.
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That's why I say it ruined him. In Boxing, unlike any other sport, a loss is devastating. They're hard to bounce back from. A loss like what Cotto experienced was more than that. It was a destruction. Cotto never bounced back. He beat Judah and Mosely, and like you pointed out was one of the most feared fighters, and then Margarito happened. I don't think he looked good against Clottley and obviously worked him over. But, it was the fight against Foreman that made me second guess if Cotto should even be fighting. He was the logical choice for Floyd after he took out Mayorga ( ::) ) and a plaster-less Margarito. His buzz up until that 1st Margarito fight was crazy. He was Paul Williams/Sergio Martinez/GGG before they were. He just never bounced back.
This is the problem with Boxing. It'll always be this way. The Fighter holds all the power. In the case of Fighter vs. Fighter, the most popular always wins out.
Golden Boy/Showtime know that there's just a small number of fighters even close to being ready to fight Floyd. They're throwing the hype machine around a lot of folks. I saw Khan fight Carlos Molina here in L.A. and he looked solid (plus Molina looked horrible). I also saw him fight Diaz. I think he needs to beat Alexander decisively to make me believe he's ready to fight a guy like Floyd.
Mayweather-Khan should never be made, unless Khan suddenly starts killing elite boxers out of nowhere. If Floyd talks about Manny not being a worthy opponent anymore after taking two Ls -- one a split decision (which 99% of the boxing community knows was a total robbery that was clearly a UD win for Manny) and the other a legit KO -- then by that same logic, Khan shouldn't be worthy either, since he also caught himself two Ls as well -- one also a split decision (though it's more of a debatable loss and not quite a robbery) and the other a TKO. Khan's opponents that he lost to weren't even elite fighters either, whereas Manny's opponents were far more talented. But if Khan obliterates Alexander (meaning a KO/TKO within the first half of the fight), then that will encourage Floyd (and Golden Boy) to consider him as an option just because it's convenient and marketable, but I think he'll need a more legit win on top of that... perhaps avenging either of his losses or, assuming Danny Garcia loses this month, taking on Matthysse and beating him. Then I'd say that he could be a respectable opponent. But definitely not one of my top three choices.[/quote]
No doubt. I've never bought into the Khan hype. But, right now with the GBP/Showtime and Top Rank/HBO split, there's not many options for Floyd. I do agree on Manny. Any logical person knows that he beat Bradley. I don't even look at that as a loss. And, even up until the KO he suffered vs. Marquez, Manny was up in that fight. I feel it was a combination of many being overly aggressive, Marquez being hurt (which is when a fighter is most dangerous) and Angel Hernandez...
Floyd would give Khan the fight before Manny only because he knows he can take a much larger chunk of the purse and there's nothing Khan's camp can do or say about it. It's not about the Win/Loss record. For Floyd it's about winning everything. Name being first on the bill. Coming out second. Getting the majority (no matter how small) of the purse. Dictating terms. That's when the fight starts for Floyd. Months before the actual fight. Manny's camp doesn't allow that and Floyd knows it.
I like that idea of seeing Khan beat Alexander and then taking on the winner of Garcia/Matthyse. Then that winner fights Floyd. Makes sense. But, it leaves Floyd without an opponent May of Next year.
I was at the Guerrero/Berto fight when Guerrero called out Floyd. I knew that was going to be a joke of a fight. Same thing with Ortiz. He wasn't ready.
And therein lies the problem, Floyd picks people with a little bit of buzz and some big recent wins (so it doesn't look like he's picking a bum), but their inexperience is disguised as being young, fresh, hungry, etc. all for the sake of selling the fight and making it sound like the biggest challenge out there. It's not to say that those opponents were bitches, but we knew how they would turn out, and we weren't really hungry for those fights either. Ortiz made stupid mistakes, right when it looked like he was starting to catch his stride. But then again, people inconveniently forgot how he quit against Maidana a couple years prior. Again, another young fighter who came up on a big win against Berto, then suddenly was in the Mayweather sweepstakes whose prior losses were forgiven. And Robert Guerrero was also a fucking nobody who came up off of beating Berto (when he was already damaged goods from having lost to Ortiz and tested positive for banned substances).
But I can respect that Floyd did take on Mosley (after his peak though), Cotto (also after his peak and after two TKO losses) and Canelo (big, strong opponent but still very young). But I really don't want his next opponents to be some bullshit ones.[/quote]
Yeah, Floyd is an opportunist. That's why he's fighting Canelo now and not in 2 or 3 years. Canelo is coming off a fight vs. Trout where I personally thought he looked gassed and definitely could've lost the fight. I knew when Floyd took this fight, him and his camp saw something they knew he could exploit.
As for Ortiz, I think he was thrown in by De La Hoya. Oscar is DYING to find that next Mexican American star and it's not working. First it was Ortiz. Then it kinda looked like Guerrero. Most recently, it was Abner Mares. It's just gonna happen. I lost ALL respect for Ortiz after his "I don't deserve this" speech. Berto is more Balrog than Bison nowadays. I don't know why GBP used him as a stepping stone towards Mayweather. Stylistically, he's nothing like your typical Black American fighter. So he gets into slug fests and loses and all of a sudden those guys are ready for Floyd? Please. Beat a guy like Broner. Move up beat a guy like Bradley. Or fight a guy like Ward and move way down. But, to be ready for Floyd, you have to have experience fighting fighters with strong Defense, not brawlers.
Floyd waited for Cotto and Mosely. He should've fought them much sooner. But, that's boxing.
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I do agree on Manny. Any logical person knows that he beat Bradley. I don't even look at that as a loss. And, even up until the KO he suffered vs. Marquez, Manny was up in that fight. I feel it was a combination of many being overly aggressive, Marquez being hurt (which is when a fighter is most dangerous) and Angel Hernandez...
THANK YOU. There's no denying that Manny got knocked the fuck out, but people keep fronting like Manny was getting killed the whole time (as people compare it to Manny KO'ing Hatton since they both got put to bed, except there wasn't a moment in that fight where Manny wasn't dominating him) and then saying that he's done because of the dramatic ending. Even though 2012 had Manny losing both of his fights, he was actually fighting a lot better in those fights than he was in his two fights in 2011 against Mosley and Marquez. It's Manny's own fault that he got so aggressive that he made himself vulnerable, but a fifth fight should really happen. With blood testing, of course.
Floyd would give Khan the fight before Manny only because he knows he can take a much larger chunk of the purse and there's nothing Khan's camp can do or say about it. It's not about the Win/Loss record. For Floyd it's about winning everything. Name being first on the bill. Coming out second. Getting the majority (no matter how small) of the purse. Dictating terms. That's when the fight starts for Floyd. Months before the actual fight. Manny's camp doesn't allow that and Floyd knows it.
Yeah, but he'd definitely take Khan before Manny because he knows he can beat Khan... demands and money aside. And Khan's camp is more likely to bend over backwards just to get the fight done since they really don't have a lot of bargaining power.
I like that idea of seeing Khan beat Alexander and then taking on the winner of Garcia/Matthyse. Then that winner fights Floyd. Makes sense. But, it leaves Floyd without an opponent May of Next year.
True... but he doesn't have to fight on May, especially since the Mayweather-Guerrero fight on Cinco de Mayo weekend had terrible numbers (relative to what Mayweather normally does). He can still fight in June or July then squeeze in a fight in some time during December. It's not the ideal calendar, but it will work, and fans will buy it if the main fight is legit. He's had enough breaks between fights, he can go twice in a year with just a five-month gap between fights. Or at least he should, for the kind of money Showtime is paying him.
As for Ortiz, I think he was thrown in by De La Hoya. Oscar is DYING to find that next Mexican American star and it's not working. First it was Ortiz. Then it kinda looked like Guerrero. Most recently, it was Abner Mares. It's just gonna happen. I lost ALL respect for Ortiz after his "I don't deserve this" speech. Berto is more Balrog than Bison nowadays. I don't know why GBP used him as a stepping stone towards Mayweather. Stylistically, he's nothing like your typical Black American fighter. So he gets into slug fests and loses and all of a sudden those guys are ready for Floyd? Please. Beat a guy like Broner. Move up beat a guy like Bradley. Or fight a guy like Ward and move way down. But, to be ready for Floyd, you have to have experience fighting fighters with strong Defense, not brawlers.
I don't think that GB used Berto as a stepping stone toward Mayweather on purpose, even though that would be the result as Ortiz won. Personally I thought Berto was going to win (and I believe Team Mayweather did as well). But I agree about needing experience with defensive fighters to be ready for Floyd, since he's not the one to trade shots and see who punks out first. That being said, while I'm sure that deep down, Floyd is thinking about setting up a fight with Manny as one of his last fights obligated to Showtime (the money is there, and Manny having lost twice probably boosts his confidence, compared to 2009-2010 when he was just beating up bigger guys), but Manny needs to get a fifth fight against Marquez, clearly win it and either build up his own defense or render Marquez's defense useless somehow... which at this point Floyd is the only one to really have done it, but it was because they're both defensive fighters, so there wasn't much for either of them to counter.
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I do agree on Manny. Any logical person knows that he beat Bradley. I don't even look at that as a loss. And, even up until the KO he suffered vs. Marquez, Manny was up in that fight. I feel it was a combination of many being overly aggressive, Marquez being hurt (which is when a fighter is most dangerous) and Angel Hernandez...
THANK YOU. There's no denying that Manny got knocked the fuck out, but people keep fronting like Manny was getting killed the whole time (as people compare it to Manny KO'ing Hatton since they both got put to bed, except there wasn't a moment in that fight where Manny wasn't dominating him) and then saying that he's done because of the dramatic ending. Even though 2012 had Manny losing both of his fights, he was actually fighting a lot better in those fights than he was in his two fights in 2011 against Mosley and Marquez. It's Manny's own fault that he got so aggressive that he made himself vulnerable, but a fifth fight should really happen. With blood testing, of course.
Definitely. I didn't see Marquez putting up a great fight. I saw him getting worked by Manny. What I did see was Marquez putting on a ton of muscle at an age where putting on muscle is extremely difficult without help of some outside agent. I'd like to see a 5th fight only because Manny obliged Marquez after he cried time and time again for a rematch.
Floyd would give Khan the fight before Manny only because he knows he can take a much larger chunk of the purse and there's nothing Khan's camp can do or say about it. It's not about the Win/Loss record. For Floyd it's about winning everything. Name being first on the bill. Coming out second. Getting the majority (no matter how small) of the purse. Dictating terms. That's when the fight starts for Floyd. Months before the actual fight. Manny's camp doesn't allow that and Floyd knows it.
Yeah, but he'd definitely take Khan before Manny because he knows he can beat Khan... demands and money aside. And Khan's camp is more likely to bend over backwards just to get the fight done since they really don't have a lot of bargaining power.[/quote]
No doubt. Khan is the safer bet. His style fits Floyd much better. And, yes, you're right, Khan's camp will take some BS 70/30 deal just to get the fight.
I like that idea of seeing Khan beat Alexander and then taking on the winner of Garcia/Matthyse. Then that winner fights Floyd. Makes sense. But, it leaves Floyd without an opponent May of Next year.
True... but he doesn't have to fight on May, especially since the Mayweather-Guerrero fight on Cinco de Mayo weekend had terrible numbers (relative to what Mayweather normally does). He can still fight in June or July then squeeze in a fight in some time during December. It's not the ideal calendar, but it will work, and fans will buy it if the main fight is legit. He's had enough breaks between fights, he can go twice in a year with just a five-month gap between fights. Or at least he should, for the kind of money Showtime is paying him.[/quote]
It's possible that Floyd waits until June, but that doesn't give much shot for a fight between, let's say the winner of Mathysse/Garcia to fight the winner of Maidana/Broner or the winner of Khan/Alexander. Floyd probably fights the winner of any of those 3 fights. Showtime will not say anything to Floyd. He's the reason they're going to make money right now. He and Al Haymon are the reason Showtime has any real power right now.
As for Ortiz, I think he was thrown in by De La Hoya. Oscar is DYING to find that next Mexican American star and it's not working. First it was Ortiz. Then it kinda looked like Guerrero. Most recently, it was Abner Mares. It's just gonna happen. I lost ALL respect for Ortiz after his "I don't deserve this" speech. Berto is more Balrog than Bison nowadays. I don't know why GBP used him as a stepping stone towards Mayweather. Stylistically, he's nothing like your typical Black American fighter. So he gets into slug fests and loses and all of a sudden those guys are ready for Floyd? Please. Beat a guy like Broner. Move up beat a guy like Bradley. Or fight a guy like Ward and move way down. But, to be ready for Floyd, you have to have experience fighting fighters with strong Defense, not brawlers.
I don't think that GB used Berto as a stepping stone toward Mayweather on purpose, even though that would be the result as Ortiz won. Personally I thought Berto was going to win (and I believe Team Mayweather did as well). But I agree about needing experience with defensive fighters to be ready for Floyd, since he's not the one to trade shots and see who punks out first. That being said, while I'm sure that deep down, Floyd is thinking about setting up a fight with Manny as one of his last fights obligated to Showtime (the money is there, and Manny having lost twice probably boosts his confidence, compared to 2009-2010 when he was just beating up bigger guys), but Manny needs to get a fifth fight against Marquez, clearly win it and either build up his own defense or render Marquez's defense useless somehow... which at this point Floyd is the only one to really have done it, but it was because they're both defensive fighters, so there wasn't much for either of them to counter.
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I think everyone thought Berto would win both the Ortiz and Guerrero fights. But, he just didn't have the style needed to win those fights. I agree about Manny. He needs to beat Rios decisively. Then take a Marquez fight regardless if he beats Bradley or not and shut him out. Floyd would really have no choice. The fight could happen next year if it all worked out.
I agree, too, that Manny needs to have a game plan for Counter Punchers. Floyd being the best Counter Puncher really is going to be tough for Manny. Marquez is a great Counter Puncher as well, that's why he's been able to hang with Manny. When Marquez fought Floyd, someone had to be the aggressor. Floyd baited Marquez into it and that's why Marquez looked so bad (and then called in Angel).
Good shit bro.
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I'm a huge Tyson fan. Watched nearly all his fights, documentary's, and even read books on him and the key figures in his life.. like Teddy Atlas, Don King, etc.
...same with Ali.
I was also a fan of a white boxer who was tearin shit up in the late 80's. Rocky Balboa.
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Definitely. I didn't see Marquez putting up a great fight. I saw him getting worked by Manny. What I did see was Marquez putting on a ton of muscle at an age where putting on muscle is extremely difficult without help of some outside agent. I'd like to see a 5th fight only because Manny obliged Marquez after he cried time and time again for a rematch.
I know I said it before, but THANK YOU AGAIN. And it's not even because I'm a Manny fan either. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't worried when Manny first got knocked down (which was a weird one, since Marquez clocked him on the side of the head), but after that, he really bounced back. I think in his head, he was trying to close that fateful round strong, as in his previous fight with Bradley, he was clearly winning, but he wasn't going in for the kill in any of the rounds. And yes, it's odd how Marquez (at 38 or 39 by the time that fight went down) was as huge as he's ever been in his entire career. That's not to say that every boxer at that age will look like Larry Holmes, but Marquez appeared to be at his physical peak, and had never, ever looked like that before.
Aside from Marquez being suspicious of possibly being on something (unless there is some other valid explanation, especially with Angel Heredia in his corner), I've always given credit to Marquez for killing it with such a brutal knockout. But I agree, he really should just sign on the dotted line for a fifth fight and make the biggest amount he's ever made in his career. Top Rank had already offered him a $12 million guarantee, which will likely inflate to something larger if he beats Bradley and Manny beats Rios. He owes it to Manny... regardless of who you felt won in each of the first three fights, the reality is that Marquez failed each time to officially defeat Manny, yet Manny continued to give him more and more shots. While that kind of a KO would be a great note to end his own career on, it isn't... he took on Bradley for some bragging rights to be the Mexican fighter who has X amount of titles in Y amount of weight classes.
The reality is that Manny is OFFICIALLY up on the scorecards, 2-1-1, while Marquez is down 1-2-1, even Marquez sole win was clear and the most significant. But Marquez really doesn't have much to lose. If he wins, then the score is tied, 2-2-1, except he'd have at least that KO victory (assuming he doesn't KO Manny again, though if he did, it would be an even greater close to his career). But if he loses, the only way he'd not be looked at as the better fighter is if Manny wins by KO/TKO. If Manny wins on the cards (whether UD, MD or SD), Manny gets to avenge his loss, but Marquez will go down as the only one to have knocked out the other guy... which alone is a big statement, even if you lose the last fight. And some people will hold that against Manny, unless it's just a one-sided beatdown like Pacquiao-Margarito. So it would take that drastic of a UD or just a KO for Manny to really take the fight and officially be the "better" fighter between the two of them.
No doubt. Khan is the safer bet. His style fits Floyd much better. And, yes, you're right, Khan's camp will take some BS 70/30 deal just to get the fight.
Khan would probably take less than that. I wouldn't say that 70/30 with Floyd is BS for the vast majority of active fighters. Cotto getting the lower portion of 65/35 was about right, and he's much bigger of a star than Khan. I'd say that Khan MIGHT deserve the smaller cut of 75/25 with someone like Floyd, though I might give him 65/35 against someone like Manny. But remember, Sergio Martinez had even offered Floyd 90/10, and he's a much better fighter than Khan and would put up better PPV numbers.
It's possible that Floyd waits until June, but that doesn't give much shot for a fight between, let's say the winner of Mathysse/Garcia to fight the winner of Maidana/Broner or the winner of Khan/Alexander. Floyd probably fights the winner of any of those 3 fights. Showtime will not say anything to Floyd. He's the reason they're going to make money right now. He and Al Haymon are the reason Showtime has any real power right now.
NOW, yes, but Top Rank gave them some clout that they hadn't had in YEARS when the signed a short-term deal with them in 2011, which proved to be successful. It got Pacquiao-Mosley 1.3 million PPV buys, which was good, considering Mosley had already been beaten by Floyd the year before (which you'd think would reduce his marketability, yet it did almost as many buys as Mayweather-Mosley). Their 360 program (their counterpart to HBO's 24/7) helped promote it, and Showtime's ties to CBS helped too... and they showed they could also be a boxing giant as well. (And then of course some other Top Rank fights were on Showtime as well, like Cotto-Mayorga.) It was firmly in HBO territory in terms of success to the point where HBO fired one of their higher-ranking execs who they blamed for losing that business.
I agree, too, that Manny needs to have a game plan for Counter Punchers. Floyd being the best Counter Puncher really is going to be tough for Manny. Marquez is a great Counter Puncher as well, that's why he's been able to hang with Manny. When Marquez fought Floyd, someone had to be the aggressor. Floyd baited Marquez into it and that's why Marquez looked so bad (and then called in Angel).
Yeah, basically. Freddie Roach was right when he said Mayweather-Marquez was going to be a snoozefest, since it was a counterpuncher against a counterpuncher. We were lucky to see Marquez got knocked down once, though Floyd easily could've finished him, but he didn't. Other than that (which looked more like Marquez losing his balance anyway), there were zero fireworks. But while Marquez is still a defensive fighter, he at least engages.
Good shit bro.
For sure. Good to see another articulate boxing fan who has preferences but not biases.
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I know I said it before, but THANK YOU AGAIN. And it's not even because I'm a Manny fan either. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't worried when Manny first got knocked down (which was a weird one, since Marquez clocked him on the side of the head), but after that, he really bounced back. I think in his head, he was trying to close that fateful round strong, as in his previous fight with Bradley, he was clearly winning, but he wasn't going in for the kill in any of the rounds. And yes, it's odd how Marquez (at 38 or 39 by the time that fight went down) was as huge as he's ever been in his entire career. That's not to say that every boxer at that age will look like Larry Holmes, but Marquez appeared to be at his physical peak, and had never, ever looked like that before.
Aside from Marquez being suspicious of possibly being on something (unless there is some other valid explanation, especially with Angel Heredia in his corner), I've always given credit to Marquez for killing it with such a brutal knockout. But I agree, he really should just sign on the dotted line for a fifth fight and make the biggest amount he's ever made in his career. Top Rank had already offered him a $12 million guarantee, which will likely inflate to something larger if he beats Bradley and Manny beats Rios. He owes it to Manny... regardless of who you felt won in each of the first three fights, the reality is that Marquez failed each time to officially defeat Manny, yet Manny continued to give him more and more shots. While that kind of a KO would be a great note to end his own career on, it isn't... he took on Bradley for some bragging rights to be the Mexican fighter who has X amount of titles in Y amount of weight classes.
The reality is that Manny is OFFICIALLY up on the scorecards, 2-1-1, while Marquez is down 1-2-1, even Marquez sole win was clear and the most significant. But Marquez really doesn't have much to lose. If he wins, then the score is tied, 2-2-1, except he'd have at least that KO victory (assuming he doesn't KO Manny again, though if he did, it would be an even greater close to his career). But if he loses, the only way he'd not be looked at as the better fighter is if Manny wins by KO/TKO. If Manny wins on the cards (whether UD, MD or SD), Manny gets to avenge his loss, but Marquez will go down as the only one to have knocked out the other guy... which alone is a big statement, even if you lose the last fight. And some people will hold that against Manny, unless it's just a one-sided beatdown like Pacquiao-Margarito. So it would take that drastic of a UD or just a KO for Manny to really take the fight and officially be the "better" fighter between the two of them.
Spot on. I'm married to a Mexican Girl... All I can say is I've had a TON of arguments with her brothers. Cousins. Uncles.. You name it. The night and the few weeks after Marquez KO'd Manny, Marquez was tied with Vicente Fernandez and 2nd only to Jesus Christ in terms of popularity in Mexico. He literally became a God. If there were Elections that week, Marquez would've been written in as President. That segment of fan refuses to see the fight in anyway other than an annihilation. But, reality is that Manny was up. Manny really should've walked away up 2-0-1 and never looked back. But, being a true Champion he took a lose, lose fight. He beats Marquez, "oh well! Marquez was over anyway." He loses, "ah... you see he was never better than Marquez and he's not ready for Floyd." What can you do. A 5th fight HAS to happen. As for Angel... Well, let's just say if Victor Conte is calling you dirty, you're dirty. Filthy even.
If they fight 1 more time, I don't see Manny being as reckless. I see him developing a new game plan. He has to. Because, like you said, Marquez' defense and counter punching are top notch.
Khan would probably take less than that. I wouldn't say that 70/30 with Floyd is BS for the vast majority of active fighters. Cotto getting the lower portion of 65/35 was about right, and he's much bigger of a star than Khan. I'd say that Khan MIGHT deserve the smaller cut of 75/25 with someone like Floyd, though I might give him 65/35 against someone like Manny. But remember, Sergio Martinez had even offered Floyd 90/10, and he's a much better fighter than Khan and would put up better PPV numbers.
No doubt Khan takes it. It'll be the biggest pay day ever. I call it BS because it's Floyd's first "win" in the fight. Everything Floyd does is calculated. He does it for a reason. Mainly to get under the other persons skin, so that they can come into the fight angry and make mistakes.
I was dying to see Martinez fight Floyd or Manny. But, their camps dodged that bullet. Martinez has not looked good in his last few fights and his camp is trying to get him to dodge GGG. GGG has said he's willing to fight anyone at 154 to 160 or so. That guy and Leo Santa Cruz are my 2 favorite up and comers.
NOW, yes, but Top Rank gave them some clout that they hadn't had in YEARS when the signed a short-term deal with them in 2011, which proved to be successful. It got Pacquiao-Mosley 1.3 million PPV buys, which was good, considering Mosley had already been beaten by Floyd the year before (which you'd think would reduce his marketability, yet it did almost as many buys as Mayweather-Mosley). Their 360 program (their counterpart to HBO's 24/7) helped promote it, and Showtime's ties to CBS helped too... and they showed they could also be a boxing giant as well. (And then of course some other Top Rank fights were on Showtime as well, like Cotto-Mayorga.) It was firmly in HBO territory in terms of success to the point where HBO fired one of their higher-ranking execs who they blamed for losing that business.
Right now, Showtime pays way more to show each fight than HBO did. That's part of the reason why Showtime is making as much money as they should be. Showtime has always been in the picture, but HBO has always just been smarter about their business. But, Showtime showed their potential for risk by partnering up with Golden Boy and making HBO side exclusively with Top Rank. We'll see how it plays out.
Yeah, basically. Freddie Roach was right when he said Mayweather-Marquez was going to be a snoozefest, since it was a counterpuncher against a counterpuncher. We were lucky to see Marquez got knocked down once, though Floyd easily could've finished him, but he didn't. Other than that (which looked more like Marquez losing his balance anyway), there were zero fireworks. But while Marquez is still a defensive fighter, he at least engages.
They always say Styles Make Fights... It's always true.
For sure. Good to see another articulate boxing fan who has preferences but not biases.
No doubt. You know you're game.
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Spot on. I'm married to a Mexican Girl... All I can say is I've had a TON of arguments with her brothers. Cousins. Uncles.. You name it. The night and the few weeks after Marquez KO'd Manny, Marquez was tied with Vicente Fernandez and 2nd only to Jesus Christ in terms of popularity in Mexico. He literally became a God. If there were Elections that week, Marquez would've been written in as President. That segment of fan refuses to see the fight in anyway other than an annihilation. But, reality is that Manny was up.
I'm not Mexican but I grew up in Oxnard, which is about 70% Mexican. When my brother and I go home and visit our parents, we usually go to this Mexican joint that we've been going to for years (Taqueria el Tapatio), and after that fight, my brother was wearing a Pacquiao shirt and was getting mad dogged left and right. Nobody did anything though, but still, everyone was on that bullshit.
Manny really should've walked away up 2-0-1 and never looked back. But, being a true Champion he took a lose, lose fight. He beats Marquez, "oh well! Marquez was over anyway." He loses, "ah... you see he was never better than Marquez and he's not ready for Floyd." What can you do. A 5th fight HAS to happen.
The problem is that Manny didn't have a lot of options at that point, at least none that would be huge successes. He was (officially) coming off of a loss, though personally I think it did win some people back on his side. And even in that loss against a moderately popular boxer (not a big fanbase but I'd say he's a lot better known than other fighters like Guerrero, Petersen, Maidana, Alexander, etc.), the numbers weren't huge... something like 900k PPV buys, which isn't bad but I'd have thought it would've broken a million, but not by much. Still, not bad for a guy who never really had a solid promotional company behind him to build him up. An immediate rematch with Bradley wasn't necessarily a good look since the outcome was so controversial, plus it meant that Top Rank would be doubling Bradley's paycheck since there was an immediate rematch clause guaranteeing Bradley $10 million... which was conveniently avoided since Manny did not fight him immediately afterward. So even if they fight again, he's not contractually obligated to that. Similarly, Manny taking on Bradley in the first place kind of gave Manny's side more bargaining power since Marquez at first demanded a bunch of shit ($10 million guarantee, switching the majority decision to a no contest, his left arm, etc.) to sign for a fourth fight but knew that he'd have to relent since Manny could just fight Bradley again instead for less trouble than that.
And again, outside of another fight with either of them, at that point, he didn't have a lot of options. Cotto declined a rematch (and I think he did it without even telling Top Rank since everyone found out when he took a different fight) and frankly wouldn't have been all that interesting to me (not to say that I wouldn't still watch it). Peterson (who was actually a name they were throwing around) had little marketability or even the ability to make the fight interesting. Everyone else was either too small to make it successful or someone he had already beaten. Pacquiao-Khan would've been interesting, but I can't remember if Khan had split from Roach yet, plus Top Rank and Golden Boy never seem to play nice with each other.
As for Angel... Well, let's just say if Victor Conte is calling you dirty, you're dirty. Filthy even.
Yeah, I don't know what Marquez was thinking to hire someone who has been busted for juicing up his athletes. Reformed or not, it's a bad look, one that you really can't afford in terms of preserving your image when you're at that level. ESPECIALLY if you come out looking like that at that age... and then fight through a broken nose and knock the other guy out. In a fight that you REALLY needed to win at all costs.
If they fight 1 more time, I don't see Manny being as reckless. I see him developing a new game plan. He has to. Because, like you said, Marquez' defense and counter punching are top notch.
But then he might be too careful, like when he fought Bradley. Obviously the scorecards were all fucked up, but again, he wasn't going in for the kill toward the end of any round. But he clearly could've just shut him down with little risk since Bradley doesn't have KO power and doesn't counterpunch on some Karate Kid II drum technique shit. At the same time, Manny is in his mid-30s... it'll be hard for him to just switch up like that. Roach said the same thing about Hatton, saying that yes, Hatton has learned some new shit from Mayweather Sr., but you can't just drop your old habits after two fights.
No doubt Khan takes it. It'll be the biggest pay day ever. I call it BS because it's Floyd's first "win" in the fight. Everything Floyd does is calculated. He does it for a reason. Mainly to get under the other persons skin, so that they can come into the fight angry and make mistakes.
I was dying to see Martinez fight Floyd or Manny. But, their camps dodged that bullet. Martinez has not looked good in his last few fights and his camp is trying to get him to dodge GGG. GGG has said he's willing to fight anyone at 154 to 160 or so. That guy and Leo Santa Cruz are my 2 favorite up and comers.
Floyd does it because he can, and he will always get away with it for obvious reasons. Manny is the only person who stuck it to him, though Manny has lost a lot of leverage after 2012.
I wanted to see Martinez fight one of them too, but I kind of knew that he wouldn't fight Manny since there's too big of a size difference between them, regardless of who put up the roadblock. I can respect that Martinez offered a catchweight of 150 (which is crazy on his part, but more power to him), but then Top Rank was on some bullshit where they also wanted a weight limit on fight night, which would be pretty unfair to Martinez and REALLY unhealthy since the guy walks around closer to 170. Just look at Margarito, who fought mostly at 147 and 154. He was 165 when he fought Manny, with that same catchweight. Martinez fights regularly at 160, so it would be even more difficult for him. But Martinez made Floyd look like a runner by offering a 90/10 split.
Right now, Showtime pays way more to show each fight than HBO did. That's part of the reason why Showtime is making as much money as they should be. Showtime has always been in the picture, but HBO has always just been smarter about their business. But, Showtime showed their potential for risk by partnering up with Golden Boy and making HBO side exclusively with Top Rank. We'll see how it plays out.
In the end, it will work out for Showtime. They have Floyd. HBO has Manny. They'll both always be big draws, but Floyd has bigger numbers (on average) and is who more fighters want to fight. Fighters will still fight Manny, but there's less of an allure in doing it since he racked up two Ls already. But I've always thought that Golden Boy generally did a better job at building up their whole stable in terms of quality and quantity with a lot of guys of varying popularity. I felt like Top Rank wasn't as good at that when Golden Boy came to be and grew into what they are today. In the past few years, guys were only signing to Top Rank to get a chance to fight Manny (like Mosley, Marquez and Bradley) and not necessarily because of other opportunities that didn't involve that. There are the guys who were there before Manny blew up (such as Cotto, Margarito, Mike Jones, etc.) but a lot of them faded away. Cotto left to get the Mayweather fight, then he came back but isn't exactly on a winning streak. A lot of the other guys (Rios, Alvarado, Donaire, etc.) are good, entertaining boxers, but I just don't see them becoming superstars.
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I'm not Mexican but I grew up in Oxnard, which is about 70% Mexican. When my brother and I go home and visit our parents, we usually go to this Mexican joint that we've been going to for years (Taqueria el Tapatio), and after that fight, my brother was wearing a Pacquiao shirt and was getting mad dogged left and right. Nobody did anything though, but still, everyone was on that bullshit.
I hear you. I watched the fight here in the L.A. area. It was pretty much 98% Mexican in the Bar I was at. Anything Manny did was ignored and any little thing Marquez did was cheered loudly.
The problem is that Manny didn't have a lot of options at that point, at least none that would be huge successes. He was (officially) coming off of a loss, though personally I think it did win some people back on his side. And even in that loss against a moderately popular boxer (not a big fanbase but I'd say he's a lot better known than other fighters like Guerrero, Petersen, Maidana, Alexander, etc.), the numbers weren't huge... something like 900k PPV buys, which isn't bad but I'd have thought it would've broken a million, but not by much. Still, not bad for a guy who never really had a solid promotional company behind him to build him up. An immediate rematch with Bradley wasn't necessarily a good look since the outcome was so controversial, plus it meant that Top Rank would be doubling Bradley's paycheck since there was an immediate rematch clause guaranteeing Bradley $10 million... which was conveniently avoided since Manny did not fight him immediately afterward. So even if they fight again, he's not contractually obligated to that. Similarly, Manny taking on Bradley in the first place kind of gave Manny's side more bargaining power since Marquez at first demanded a bunch of shit ($10 million guarantee, switching the majority decision to a no contest, his left arm, etc.) to sign for a fourth fight but knew that he'd have to relent since Manny could just fight Bradley again instead for less trouble than that.
And again, outside of another fight with either of them, at that point, he didn't have a lot of options. Cotto declined a rematch (and I think he did it without even telling Top Rank since everyone found out when he took a different fight) and frankly wouldn't have been all that interesting to me (not to say that I wouldn't still watch it). Peterson (who was actually a name they were throwing around) had little marketability or even the ability to make the fight interesting. Everyone else was either too small to make it successful or someone he had already beaten. Pacquiao-Khan would've been interesting, but I can't remember if Khan had split from Roach yet, plus Top Rank and Golden Boy never seem to play nice with each other.
I think it boils down the whole Top Rank/Golden Boy beef for the Manny/Marquez 4. You're right, he had no other real viable choices and went with whatever was left. It's a shame. If I remember correctly, Khan and Roach split at the end of 2012. I think the timing wasn't right for Khan to get a new Trainer and take a big fight like that.
Yeah, I don't know what Marquez was thinking to hire someone who has been busted for juicing up his athletes. Reformed or not, it's a bad look, one that you really can't afford in terms of preserving your image when you're at that level. ESPECIALLY if you come out looking like that at that age... and then fight through a broken nose and knock the other guy out. In a fight that you REALLY needed to win at all costs.
This quote from Marquez proves something to me:
Bradley is just reflecting the fear that he is feeling. I would like to do the examinations with USADA, but I am not going to fall into this game. He is the one who needs this fight. The most important victory of my career - I already achieved it [against Pacquiao], but [Bradley] is becoming arrogant. We are ready to get tested. He wants to do it with VADA....I prefer to do it with USADA. I have never tested positive. I do not know why Bradley is [talking the way he is]
Essentially, he's saying that he has nothing left to prove, why would he dope in this fight.
But then he might be too careful, like when he fought Bradley. Obviously the scorecards were all fucked up, but again, he wasn't going in for the kill toward the end of any round. But he clearly could've just shut him down with little risk since Bradley doesn't have KO power and doesn't counterpunch on some Karate Kid II drum technique shit. At the same time, Manny is in his mid-30s... it'll be hard for him to just switch up like that. Roach said the same thing about Hatton, saying that yes, Hatton has learned some new shit from Mayweather Sr., but you can't just drop your old habits after two fights.
That could very well be. Good point. I think that Manny got penalized because of that. He just has to be less risky. But, it's not in Manny. He always wants to put on a fight. He wants the fans to be happy. It's a curse.
I wanted to see Martinez fight one of them too, but I kind of knew that he wouldn't fight Manny since there's too big of a size difference between them, regardless of who put up the roadblock. I can respect that Martinez offered a catchweight of 150 (which is crazy on his part, but more power to him), but then Top Rank was on some bullshit where they also wanted a weight limit on fight night, which would be pretty unfair to Martinez and REALLY unhealthy since the guy walks around closer to 170. Just look at Margarito, who fought mostly at 147 and 154. He was 165 when he fought Manny, with that same catchweight. Martinez fights regularly at 160, so it would be even more difficult for him. But Martinez made Floyd look like a runner by offering a 90/10 split.
Martinez just wanted the fight. He didn't care what he had to do (save for depriving himself). I feel the Champ has the right to be a bit more selective when it comes to Catchweights, but sometimes the demands these fighters make is ridiculous.
In the end, it will work out for Showtime. They have Floyd. HBO has Manny. They'll both always be big draws, but Floyd has bigger numbers (on average) and is who more fighters want to fight. Fighters will still fight Manny, but there's less of an allure in doing it since he racked up two Ls already. But I've always thought that Golden Boy generally did a better job at building up their whole stable in terms of quality and quantity with a lot of guys of varying popularity. I felt like Top Rank wasn't as good at that when Golden Boy came to be and grew into what they are today. In the past few years, guys were only signing to Top Rank to get a chance to fight Manny (like Mosley, Marquez and Bradley) and not necessarily because of other opportunities that didn't involve that. There are the guys who were there before Manny blew up (such as Cotto, Margarito, Mike Jones, etc.) but a lot of them faded away. Cotto left to get the Mayweather fight, then he came back but isn't exactly on a winning streak. A lot of the other guys (Rios, Alvarado, Donaire, etc.) are good, entertaining boxers, but I just don't see them becoming superstars.
No doubt it'll work. But at what expense to Boxing in the long run? I think the Networks and Promotions need to get over the pissing contest.
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I think it boils down the whole Top Rank/Golden Boy beef for the Manny/Marquez 4. You're right, he had no other real viable choices and went with whatever was left. It's a shame. If I remember correctly, Khan and Roach split at the end of 2012. I think the timing wasn't right for Khan to get a new Trainer and take a big fight like that.
It started well before that though, as 2011 had Top Rank snatching two of Golden Boy's free agents out of their contract -- Mosley and Marquez. Remember that before Pacquiao-Marquez III was official, there was some clause where Marquez would have some obligation to them if they could match the terms offered by Top Rank with some other fight. Golden Boy offered Marquez a Canelo fight at 147 (which was already a stretch for a big boy like him), but then the talk of Marquez's camp requesting a catchweight of either 143 or 144 against Manny (I can't remember which one it was) kind of killed off the Canelo fight since it would've been extremely difficult for Canelo to go down even lower in weight, so he was clear to walk away.
This quote from Marquez proves something to me
That's just Marquez though... doing a bit of backpedaling and contradicting statements. He says that he chose Bradley over a fifth fight with Manny because to him it wasn't about the money to him (as he would've made four or five times as much fighting Manny again), yet remember that he originally wanted $15 million, then Top Rank offered him $12 million, then he said he wanted $20 million.
That could very well be. Good point. I think that Manny got penalized because of that. He just has to be less risky. But, it's not in Manny. He always wants to put on a fight. He wants the fans to be happy. It's a curse.
Yeah, remember that when interviewed, the judges of the Pacquiao-Bradley fight were saying stuff like, "The old Manny would've finished him off," so it seemed as if their scoring of the fight was based on how Manny from 2009-2010 would've done rather than what was actually happening in front of them. But Manny knows he has to make something exciting happen, since that's what brought fame to him in the first place. People watched Manny fights because there was guaranteed destruction. Manny's wins that made it to the cards were generally not crowd pleasers, except maybe the Margarito fight. So he knows that his crazy offense that made him so vulnerable in the first place is what gets people to cheer for him, contrasting to people cheering for Floyd when he dodges a punch and lands ONE right in his opponents face, then safely pulls out of reach. Different expectations for Manny fights.
Martinez just wanted the fight. He didn't care what he had to do (save for depriving himself). I feel the Champ has the right to be a bit more selective when it comes to Catchweights, but sometimes the demands these fighters make is ridiculous.
If you're talking about the Manny thing, that was a suggestion of Bob Arum's. I don't think Manny really wanted a weight limit for fight night. But Pacquiao-Martinez was a lot less likely than Mayweather-Martinez, so I suppose it was an easy way to shut down that idea rather than play along and pretend that the fight will happen. Manny is a small guy... there are plenty of guys at junior welterweight who weigh more than he does when it comes to fight night weight. He tried 150 once and felt it was just too big of a weight category for him, which makes sense when you're fighting a guy 17 pounds heavier than you, this far away from the heavyweight division. Remember, he didn't even weight 150 on fight night against Margarito.
No doubt it'll work. But at what expense to Boxing in the long run? I think the Networks and Promotions need to get over the pissing contest.
You're right, but it's extremely difficult for actual networks to play together since it's based on channels being ordered... unless there is some insane merger and the two companies become one. But as long as the two promotional companies are of similar sizes (meaning $$$), then it can happen, which is how Top Rank and Golden Boy were able to put together as many fights as they did from 2007-2009. But it's also why Top Rank had some difficulty setting up Cotto-Martinez when it was a potential fight. Maybe they were purposely dodging the fighter, but there were valid points about Martinez's promotional company (can't remember which one it is) being relatively small and not having the capital to equally co-promote a Cotto fight. (Obviously they got along and made Martinez-Chavez Jr. happen though, but Chavez Jr. is far less popular than Cotto... just think of how less of a shit people would give about him if he weren't JCC's son.)
Though now, it's just their egos constantly going at it, and both sides' heads are at fault. Bob Arum snaps at people more than he should (remember how he dissed Donaire's wife and basically said she dressed trashy?), but he's at least a promoter at heart and has been doing this for decades. When Oscar talks about his fighters, it's just obvious throat gagging of the guy without any of the finesse a seasoned promoter would have when putting words together. And Schaefer is the biggest fucking idiot... dude is a banker. I'm sure he's good with the financials, but the guy needs to stop talking to the media. This was the same guy who, during the promotion of Mayweather-Mosley, said that he expected it to break the record of De La Hoya-Mayweather and put up numbers between 3 and 4 million PPV buys (no joke, he said that), and it ended up being less than half of the lower estimate -- not that 1.4 million is anything to be disappointed with, but while you're obviously supposed to talk up your events, don't bullshit people with obvious falsehoods. And they called it "Who R U Picking?" for crying out loud. I thought I was ordering a posthumous 2Pac album when I saw that title.
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It started well before that though, as 2011 had Top Rank snatching two of Golden Boy's free agents out of their contract -- Mosley and Marquez. Remember that before Pacquiao-Marquez III was official, there was some clause where Marquez would have some obligation to them if they could match the terms offered by Top Rank with some other fight. Golden Boy offered Marquez a Canelo fight at 147 (which was already a stretch for a big boy like him), but then the talk of Marquez's camp requesting a catchweight of either 143 or 144 against Manny (I can't remember which one it was) kind of killed off the Canelo fight since it would've been extremely difficult for Canelo to go down even lower in weight, so he was clear to walk away.
Never heard about that. Props
That's just Marquez though... doing a bit of backpedaling and contradicting statements. He says that he chose Bradley over a fifth fight with Manny because to him it wasn't about the money to him (as he would've made four or five times as much fighting Manny again), yet remember that he originally wanted $15 million, then Top Rank offered him $12 million, then he said he wanted $20 million.
I just took it more that Marquez wouldn't have to cheat in a fight with Bradley after he's already had the biggest win of his career.
Yeah, remember that when interviewed, the judges of the Pacquiao-Bradley fight were saying stuff like, "The old Manny would've finished him off," so it seemed as if their scoring of the fight was based on how Manny from 2009-2010 would've done rather than what was actually happening in front of them. But Manny knows he has to make something exciting happen, since that's what brought fame to him in the first place. People watched Manny fights because there was guaranteed destruction. Manny's wins that made it to the cards were generally not crowd pleasers, except maybe the Margarito fight. So he knows that his crazy offense that made him so vulnerable in the first place is what gets people to cheer for him, contrasting to people cheering for Floyd when he dodges a punch and lands ONE right in his opponents face, then safely pulls out of reach. Different expectations for Manny fights.
Yeah. The Judges/Refs/Umps are not perfect in any Sport. They really use perception or bias (at times) in their decision making.
If you're talking about the Manny thing, that was a suggestion of Bob Arum's. I don't think Manny really wanted a weight limit for fight night. But Pacquiao-Martinez was a lot less likely than Mayweather-Martinez, so I suppose it was an easy way to shut down that idea rather than play along and pretend that the fight will happen. Manny is a small guy... there are plenty of guys at junior welterweight who weigh more than he does when it comes to fight night weight. He tried 150 once and felt it was just too big of a weight category for him, which makes sense when you're fighting a guy 17 pounds heavier than you, this far away from the heavyweight division. Remember, he didn't even weight 150 on fight night against Margarito.
Yeah. I'm talking Manny. Decisions rarely come from Manny. If he could catchweight with Vitali or Wlad he would. It's his camp that makes outlandish claims and demands sometimes. On the Mayweather side, Ellerbee just smiles and nods to whatever Floyd says. Floyd calls those shots. So, when he ducks a fight, he can't put it on his camp, it's all on him. I know Manny would've fought Martinez at virtually any weight, because that's the kind of heart he has.
You're right, but it's extremely difficult for actual networks to play together since it's based on channels being ordered... unless there is some insane merger and the two companies become one. But as long as the two promotional companies are of similar sizes (meaning $$$), then it can happen, which is how Top Rank and Golden Boy were able to put together as many fights as they did from 2007-2009. But it's also why Top Rank had some difficulty setting up Cotto-Martinez when it was a potential fight. Maybe they were purposely dodging the fighter, but there were valid points about Martinez's promotional company (can't remember which one it is) being relatively small and not having the capital to equally co-promote a Cotto fight. (Obviously they got along and made Martinez-Chavez Jr. happen though, but Chavez Jr. is far less popular than Cotto... just think of how less of a shit people would give about him if he weren't JCC's son.)
What I mean behind the Networks playing nice is the whole "well we won't work with you, if your work them" thing that HBO implemented. Of course, they'll always compete, but to start shutting a promotion out for working with another network isn't good for the sport. Martinez works with DiBella. DiBella has been trying to protect Martinez as best he could, especially now with GGG looming.
Nationally, the Cotto fight would've made a lot of sense. But, they had the Chavez Jr fight in Vegas and if I'm not mistaken, it sold out even competing with Canelo/Josesito down the street on the same night. In California, the buying power the name "Chavez" has in Boxing is crazy. I remember just before that fight, the idea was kicked out that Canelo and Chavez Jr. would go to Mexico City and fight in a Soccer Stadium. I still that's a huge possibility. But, you're right, if Chavez Jr. was Castro or Castillo... nobody would give him the time of day.
Though now, it's just their egos constantly going at it, and both sides' heads are at fault. Bob Arum snaps at people more than he should (remember how he dissed Donaire's wife and basically said she dressed trashy?), but he's at least a promoter at heart and has been doing this for decades. When Oscar talks about his fighters, it's just obvious throat gagging of the guy without any of the finesse a seasoned promoter would have when putting words together. And Schaefer is the biggest fucking idiot... dude is a banker. I'm sure he's good with the financials, but the guy needs to stop talking to the media. This was the same guy who, during the promotion of Mayweather-Mosley, said that he expected it to break the record of De La Hoya-Mayweather and put up numbers between 3 and 4 million PPV buys (no joke, he said that), and it ended up being less than half of the lower estimate -- not that 1.4 million is anything to be disappointed with, but while you're obviously supposed to talk up your events, don't bullshit people with obvious falsehoods. And they called it "Who R U Picking?" for crying out loud. I thought I was ordering a posthumous 2Pac album when I saw that title.
Arum is a dinosaur. I actually think if he Retired Boxing would be a better place. He's put down everyone, even UFC fans. Oscar on the other hand only talks in "spin." I laugh whenever I hear Oscar talk. Don't get me started on Schaefer either. Dude is Ellerbee with an accent. Too bad you weren't at the Mayweather/Canelo press conference. He said "The One" somewhere around 80 times in his time on the mic. It was terrible.
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Yeah. I'm talking Manny. Decisions rarely come from Manny. If he could catchweight with Vitali or Wlad he would. It's his camp that makes outlandish claims and demands sometimes. On the Mayweather side, Ellerbee just smiles and nods to whatever Floyd says. Floyd calls those shots. So, when he ducks a fight, he can't put it on his camp, it's all on him. I know Manny would've fought Martinez at virtually any weight, because that's the kind of heart he has.
Yeah, some people say that it shows that Manny is a puppet, but I just view it as Manny not really caring that much, in the sense that he has a mentality of, "Put someone in front of me, and I'll fight them, it's not a big deal." I remember there being a video on YouTube a year or two ago where Manny is in the Philippines and he walks in on some of his buddies watching the end of a Martinez fight (though I can't remember who the opponent was), and Manny watched some of it, and was just saying, "I could beat him." And it wasn't in a joking manner either, as he was actually watching it. That's not to say I believe him or that it would be as easy as he made it sound, but Manny enjoys a good fight. But again, I just really don't see Pacquiao-Martinez as realistic, catchweights or not.
But I agree, Mayweather calls his own shots (which unfortunately has caused a bit of diva shit here and there), but because of that, he can't deflect the blame to anyone else on his side, like you said.
Nationally, the Cotto fight would've made a lot of sense. But, they had the Chavez Jr fight in Vegas and if I'm not mistaken, it sold out even competing with Canelo/Josesito down the street on the same night. In California, the buying power the name "Chavez" has in Boxing is crazy. I remember just before that fight, the idea was kicked out that Canelo and Chavez Jr. would go to Mexico City and fight in a Soccer Stadium. I still that's a huge possibility. But, you're right, if Chavez Jr. was Castro or Castillo... nobody would give him the time of day.
Yeah, Golden Boy knew better than to compete with Top Rank's fight. They would've had a chance if Ortiz didn't get his jaw broken earlier that year (since their plan was to make Canelo-Ortiz for that night). But frankly Cotto-Martinez would've been a solid boxing match, but Martinez doesn't have a huge following... plus Puerto Rico vs. Argentina doesn't carry the same intrigue as either one of them vs. Mexico.
Arum is a dinosaur. I actually think if he Retired Boxing would be a better place. He's put down everyone, even UFC fans. Oscar on the other hand only talks in "spin." I laugh whenever I hear Oscar talk. Don't get me started on Schaefer either. Dude is Ellerbee with an accent. Too bad you weren't at the Mayweather/Canelo press conference. He said "The One" somewhere around 80 times in his time on the mic. It was terrible
Arum has done damage but the guy knows how to put fights together. He just needs to think before he speaks sometimes. But without Arum, that would really just leave Golden Boy as the head honcho, which would cause too much of a monopoly since everyone else is just really small. All of these fighters with their corny little "promotional companies" that in reality really don't do even 10% of the work in their own fights don't have the know-how to run their businesses, let alone control their own personal finances. 50 Cent is trying to come up with his SMS Promotions, but I always felt he was more about promoting his headphones (also called SMS) and co-promoting events (like how he put Gamboa on the undercard of Pacquiao-Marquez IV). But 50 is business-minded enough to pull it off, but his stable is really, really small at the moment.
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Yeah, some people say that it shows that Manny is a puppet, but I just view it as Manny not really caring that much, in the sense that he has a mentality of, "Put someone in front of me, and I'll fight them, it's not a big deal." I remember there being a video on YouTube a year or two ago where Manny is in the Philippines and he walks in on some of his buddies watching the end of a Martinez fight (though I can't remember who the opponent was), and Manny watched some of it, and was just saying, "I could beat him." And it wasn't in a joking manner either, as he was actually watching it. That's not to say I believe him or that it would be as easy as he made it sound, but Manny enjoys a good fight. But again, I just really don't see Pacquiao-Martinez as realistic, catchweights or not.
But I agree, Mayweather calls his own shots (which unfortunately has caused a bit of diva shit here and there), but because of that, he can't deflect the blame to anyone else on his side, like you said.
Manny isn't very business savvy. I'd say that with confidence. Manny still thinks like a poor kid in the Philippines, in terms of just fighting to fight. He thinks of himself as a fighter and not a business. Floyd thinks of himself as a business, a brand. He and his people will protect it as much as they can.
Yeah, Golden Boy knew better than to compete with Top Rank's fight. They would've had a chance if Ortiz didn't get his jaw broken earlier that year (since their plan was to make Canelo-Ortiz for that night). But frankly Cotto-Martinez would've been a solid boxing match, but Martinez doesn't have a huge following... plus Puerto Rico vs. Argentina doesn't carry the same intrigue as either one of them vs. Mexico.
Could you imagine how badly Canelo would've hurt Ortiz? Haha. Wow. Canelo demolished poor Josesito in that fight. Cotto-Martinez might actually be a great match up now. Martinez is a step a head of Cotto, but like I said earlier, I haven't seen the same Martinez recently. They'd have to fight in AC, MSG or Brooklyn to capture the Puerto Rican audience.
Arum has done damage but the guy knows how to put fights together. He just needs to think before he speaks sometimes. But without Arum, that would really just leave Golden Boy as the head honcho, which would cause too much of a monopoly since everyone else is just really small. All of these fighters with their corny little "promotional companies" that in reality really don't do even 10% of the work in their own fights don't have the know-how to run their businesses, let alone control their own personal finances. 50 Cent is trying to come up with his SMS Promotions, but I always felt he was more about promoting his headphones (also called SMS) and co-promoting events (like how he put Gamboa on the undercard of Pacquiao-Marquez IV). But 50 is business-minded enough to pull it off, but his stable is really, really small at the moment.
It depends on who runs TR after Arum steps down. TR could benefit from a change at the top, so could all of Boxing. And, yeah, everyone has a "Promotional" company. Promotional Companies are like Imprint Record labels. Most of these guys do not actually promote a thing and do not have the funding to truly put on a card. 50 had a shot when he was doing it with Floyd, but that dissolved. 50 would need to land some huge star, but we know that that's not possible. It'll be a while until we see someone compete with TR and GBP.
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Manny isn't very business savvy. I'd say that with confidence. Manny still thinks like a poor kid in the Philippines, in terms of just fighting to fight. He thinks of himself as a fighter and not a business. Floyd thinks of himself as a business, a brand. He and his people will protect it as much as they can.
But the problem with that line of thought (about Floyd thinking of himself as a business) is when prioritizing business and preserving your brand gets in the way of making a great fight, whether it's because he's scared of one guy and wants to pull out every excuse in the book to pass (and I'm not just talking about Manny either) or if he just wants to take low-risk fights for the sake of an extremely high probability of winning, even if the fight isn't all that interesting (i.e. Ortiz, Guerrero). I can respect his hustle since the guy is getting insane paydays, but some of those match-ups are just insulting to boxing fans.
Could you imagine how badly Canelo would've hurt Ortiz? Haha. Wow. Canelo demolished poor Josesito in that fight. Cotto-Martinez might actually be a great match up now. Martinez is a step a head of Cotto, but like I said earlier, I haven't seen the same Martinez recently. They'd have to fight in AC, MSG or Brooklyn to capture the Puerto Rican audience.
Unfortunately, we won't see Cotto-Martinez until late 2014 at the earliest, since Martinez is recovering, and Martinez-Chavez Jr. will likely be one of the biggest priorities of his team. But Cotto will need to bounce back, and I mean more than just beating Delvin Rodriguez in October. But I don't see that fight happening, as I bet after giving Chavez another shot and assuming he beats him again, I bet he'll want to go after Mayweather again to see if he'll take him at 154. If Cotto wins, I think he should try to get a rematch with Trout immediately after, then see where he can go from there. Trout would accept a rematch.
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But the problem with that line of thought (about Floyd thinking of himself as a business) is when prioritizing business and preserving your brand gets in the way of making a great fight, whether it's because he's scared of one guy and wants to pull out every excuse in the book to pass (and I'm not just talking about Manny either) or if he just wants to take low-risk fights for the sake of an extremely high probability of winning, even if the fight isn't all that interesting (i.e. Ortiz, Guerrero). I can respect his hustle since the guy is getting insane paydays, but some of those match-ups are just insulting to boxing fans.
Yeah, no doubt. From a Fighters stand point, what Floyd does is cherry pick. Ideally, you'd like EVERYONE to be like Manny. If that was the case, this conversation would be between more than just 2 of us, for sure.
Unfortunately, we won't see Cotto-Martinez until late 2014 at the earliest, since Martinez is recovering, and Martinez-Chavez Jr. will likely be one of the biggest priorities of his team. But Cotto will need to bounce back, and I mean more than just beating Delvin Rodriguez in October. But I don't see that fight happening, as I bet after giving Chavez another shot and assuming he beats him again, I bet he'll want to go after Mayweather again to see if he'll take him at 154. If Cotto wins, I think he should try to get a rematch with Trout immediately after, then see where he can go from there. Trout would accept a rematch.
Yeah, we could maybe see it in the summer. Martinez is really angling for the winner of Mayweather/Canelo. I just saw a quote from him a couple months ago about that. He said he'd fight Chavez Jr. but that his first priority is Mayweather/Canelo. Not sure how likely that fight would be though.
Cotto vs Trout would be good, but I follow Trout on Twitter and he's really trying to get a rematch with Canelo or fight Floyd next. Again, not sure how likely any of those match up would be, but that's what he's gunning for.