West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Z the laidback Virus on July 22, 2014, 02:57:21 AM
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Years ago, I read allmusic.com's review of DJ Quik's 'Rhythm-al-ism' and I remember being pissed off by it. It said, and still says: "Just what rap needs: one more guy boasting about his majestic penis and how good he is at treating women like gutter trash." Back then, I thought this very unfair commentary. Reading the review again, I still feel the reviewer misses the musical quality that's largely responsible for why this album is good to listen to, but I can only agree with that trashing I cited. Over the last five years or so, I've grown as a person and I'd say for the better. I am happy about that because I feel that striving to be the best person you can be and wanting to make the world a better place for everyone you know is a good goal for anyone and should ultimately be every person's desire. However, it has also resulted in me growing ever more uncomfortable with many elements of westcoast rap, which I used to be a fan of and still enjoy in terms of sound. There's a number of reasons for that discomfort.
First, I think the main subject matter in westcoast rap goes completely against what my principles have come to be. I can only condemn and mock misogyny, homophobia, violence, willfull ignorance, crime, gangs and egotism yet those are important subjects and themes in westcoast rap. That list misses drugs and especially weed as a subject. While I'm not and have never been a drug user myself, I suppose anyone who wants to can use drugs even if they perhaps shouldn't. I'm indifferent to it as subject matter, though it certainly gets tiresome to me. Mainstream westcoast rap of course does have a positive side in its subject matter, of course. Unity, friendship, comradery and family are commonly referred to as well, and those are positive values. However, all of those are often drenched in aggression as well; 'We against the other' instead of 'all together'.
That brings us to tribalism; 'Othering' is rampant in westcoast hiphop and then there's the utter stupidity of gangs. As long as westcoast rap excels in promoting a mindset that includes feelings of superioity towards others and condemnation of others it can never be a positive influence. This is easy to spot in many fans at this forum. They 'ride' for their rapper of choice and go apeshit when he's criticised for whatever and can't deal with differing opinions and lose all rationality they may or may not have had before. Rappers of course do nothing to counter this and instead promote the idolatry around themselves and may well believe in their own hype. There's very little sentimental difference between this on one hand and one tribe of cavemen massacring another one. Both are expressions of a primitive, deplorable, ignorant and contemptible mindset. Once again, westcoast rap promotes rather than acts against such thinking.
I feel that's a great mistake many rappers have made, driven by their fans and vice versa: Rap is a great way for expression, mockery and criticism in a potentially artful way and has often been used to adress real problems in the world and their solutions. However, westcoast rap has done very little of the sort in recent times (not that this a problem confined to westcoast rap), instead specialising in negative messages and setting dreadful examples. I feel that is a lot of squandered potential and a misuse of the power many rappers have as esteemed artists, even if it might be what their fans desire of them.
The fans, oh the fans! Even when I was a lot younger and very positive about westcoast rap (I even explained all its negativity away as 'being honest about the way humans really think about each other), I often felt a little embarassed to tell people I was into it. Why? It's associated with numbskulls who excel in their ignorance, adopt stupid walks, wear ridiculous clothing and jewelry, adopt a horrible faux accent and have an obsession with 'being tough' and ultimately anti-social. This is what I mean when I say many rappers misuse their power over their fans. Of course, dumbfucks will be dumbfucks but those can certainly be trained or educated too. Instead of teaching misogyny, sagging, homophobia and the importance of chains and chain-snatching, rappers might have used their voices to teach or inspire positively. Lost opportunities galore.
Also realise, as this forum often proves, that overcompensation for insecurity or feelings of inferiority seem to underlay westcoast rap, its rappers and its fans to an astonishing degree. It seems logical that music that largely deals with people who are 'the man', get all the money, women and fancy stuff appeals to those who want to be respected, want to feel vindicated and feel entitled to all those things I mentioned. As a teenager, that certainly played a role in me liking westcoast rap, but I've outgrown that and come to appreciate the music more for its rhythm and vibe than for its subject matter, which tends to be dreck and extremely repetitive to me. Perhaps most people will outgrow it. I certainly hope so. If that happens however, it's unlikely to be because of rap itself but more from external influences. What that means is that westcoast rap may well be holding its more pathetic listeners back, making them feel entitled and frustrated or keeping them there rather than leading them to greener psychological pastures. Lost potential again.
Of course, rappers alone are not all to blame, since clearly people like the negative subject matter and labels sell it. We can all name examples of rappers who started out with a message but lost that along the way. Even so, the medium also molds the consumer so we are probably looking at a vicious circle here. Yet, pandering to the ignorant and validating their negative or anti-social feelings is not a good thing and that energy could have been spent far better. That many a rapper appears to be an ignoramus himself or herself isn't helpful either.
I don't want to end this post without giving special mention to misogyny, because I consider that one of the most insidious elements of westcoast rap (and rap in general). Misogyny is not endemic to rap in the sense that it only exists there. Mockery, objectification and hatred of women is very common. Just look at any commentary on any women that appear online in whatever way possible. However, I feel it is perhaps the most negative aspect of westcoast rap in a way. This because it is something so widespread and which all listeners of westcoast rap are going to come across or propagate in their lifes, unlike gangs or drug dealers which many listeners are probably never going to really experience. Women however are everywhere and this means that a culture that promotes misogyny is likely to have a direct negative outcome in the lifes of many people. Promoting mutually respectful and loving relationships between men and women (or just about anyone) is a lot more commendable than spreading hatred and vitriol and promoting that other human beings are sub-human in one way or another. Unfortunately, westcoast hiphop has largely failed to realise or express that, meaning it feeds toxicity into society and interpersonal relationships. Wasted potential, and that's putting it mildly.
Nowadays, I have to agree with what that reviewer said about 'Rhytm-a-lism'. It is a horrible album in subject matter. To me, however the experience is bittersweet. I love the beats and melodies on the album and I think both DJ Quik and his guests do a great job throughout in adding to those beats and melodies vocally. It's a shame that they fill that atmosphere with shit in terms of what they actually say. A wasted opportunity and thus exemplary of westcoast rap.
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I didn't know dubcc had a selfmade schrink giving free advices.Are you wrting an essay of some kind ?
With today's politically correct & feminism resurgence you can't do anything if you listen to these people.
Most women i knew were bitches meaning ready for whatever, unsincere, money grabber, cheating regardless of how sweet i were.It's a fact for me and many.
I agree though you can't make an album filled with that subject, it gets boring real fast especially when it's not quik & the gang doing it.
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'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic
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The OP has posted what I've felt and wanted o say for quite a while now if truth be told.
The point that I would disagree with that is its not just a west coast thing or a rap thing, it's spread in all areas of music and entertainment and society in general.
Don't get me wrong, I am a hypocrite. I find my self objectifying women unknowingly, then I have to check myself.
I'm a grown man now, but I just can't play some of my music load with the Windows down as I am actually embarrassed now although I do listen to I through earphones.
Like the OP, I love the melodies, production, flows etc, and I can tolerate some of the subject matter if it's done creatively, but what I'm hearing is lacking all these attributes. It's how many people can you kill on a song, every other word is mutherfucker, nigga, bitches etc
over a crappy beat.
The only reason I can listen to some of the album's now like dogg food etc if that it was released in that golden era of growing up (teenage years) so there's the nostalgia factor.
Don't get me wrong, I could listen to the same subject matter if it's clever and witty, but I currently ain't hearing it.
And don't get me started with some (not all) of the people who are influenced by the subject matter and culture surrounding it.
It's now got to the point of characature, the point of ridicule and embarrasing.
I want a better life for myself, family and friends, and unconsciously, I've noticed that I've started to cut out more and more of the negative aspects from my life and that's including more and more so-called gangsta rap.
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Heh, I feel I have to turn my explicit music down when driving also.
There was a time before gangsta rap when rappers treated women better.
Another reason where west coast rap has failed: instead of making west coast music sound better, they have made southern music sound worse. West coast rappers trying to be southern sounds stupid and turns me off completely. I'm all for being inventive and advancing the genre, but at the same time don't try to be someone you're not.
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Heh, I feel I have to turn my explicit music down when driving also.
lmao
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Heh, I feel I have to turn my explicit music down when driving also.
lmao don't be ashamed man, let the public know what you're listening to.
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Rhymth a lism had great music and melodys but most if the lyrics and subject matter kinda ruins it . The good music should be matched with lyrics that hit home .
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I can only condemn and mock misogyny, homophobia, violence, willfull ignorance, crime, gangs and egotism yet those are important subjects and themes in westcoast rap. That list misses drugs and especially weed as a subject. While I'm not and have never been a drug user myself, I suppose anyone who wants to can use drugs even if they perhaps shouldn't. I'm indifferent to it as subject matter, though it certainly gets tiresome to me.
you sound like the life of a party
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'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic
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All I'mma do is quote Quik here:
"I bet Eazy E is turning over in his grave
To see that some of y'all done made gangsta rap GAY"
Westcoast rap is the shit for saying what everybody is thinking but is too cowardly to express. I never want the subject matter to change, I'mma still want to hear Quik's music when I'm 90 years old.
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Love that lyric. Straight up tellin it like it is.
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I wonder who gets the most pussy in this thread.
MOBNIGGA06 or the OP?
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'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic
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Okay, it's been a few days before I was able to properly reply. Thanks for the reactions, and a few replies to things said or asked by others:
- First, there is a difference between calling somebody a bitch for having personally hurt you and calling women in general bitches. Don't tell me a lot of westcoast rappers do not refer to most or all women as bitches, because they do. It's disrespectful, it's childish and it's toxic if your audience isn't too bright or enlightened. Also don't come up with Nice Guy arguments (I'm not sure if said poster meant that but I'm playing safe here). Yes, there are women out there who play with feelings but Nice Guy stories generally amount to the guy calling himself one and feeling entitled. You have no right to anyone's body.
- I didn't come out to write an essay, I just try to put effort into what I write and had a lot I wanted to say.
- I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels embarassed by rap at times.
- I can understand not always feeling comfortable loudly blasting out music with offensive lyrics in public. There's being oneself and (unpurposely) advertising yourself as a backwards bigot or douchebag by association.
- Whether or not ' Rhythm-a-lism' is a classic album or not is besides the point, so those were pretty useless posts. That's the same old same old bickering about opinions much of this forum is about. Talk about tiresome!
- Whether or not I'm 'the life of the party' is neither here nor there. Was that meant to be some cheap shot at me? If your definition of being the life of the party is loving all vile and ignorant nonsense, draw your conclusions about your priorities and your mindset.
- I used to agree with that ' freely expressing yourself' aspect. If you do so however, you can also expect criticism for it and shouldn't nag about that. Using honesty as an excuse for saying horrible things doesn't make you a better person, but perhaps the world should at least be thankful you're proudly exposing yourself as the asshole you apparently are or present yourself as and leave no doubt there.
- If your evaluation of a person or anything people say is based on how much sex they get...do I really need to point out why that's impossible to take serious? Don't make a fool of yourself. If you insist, leave it to others who make it more entertaining to read.
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Well looking at the thread about ice cube' s drop girl, and it goes to prove the OP' s and mines point.
The positive is that the fans are now starting to backlash!
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Okay, it's been a few days before I was able to properly reply. Thanks for the reactions, and a few replies to things said or asked by others:
- First, there is a difference between calling somebody a bitch for having personally hurt you and calling women in general bitches. Don't tell me a lot of westcoast rappers do not refer to most or all women as bitches, because they do. It's disrespectful, it's childish and it's toxic if your audience isn't too bright or enlightened. Also don't come up with Nice Guy arguments (I'm not sure if said poster meant that but I'm playing safe here). Yes, there are women out there who play with feelings but Nice Guy stories generally amount to the guy calling himself one and feeling entitled. You have no right to anyone's body.
- I didn't come out to write an essay, I just try to put effort into what I write and had a lot I wanted to say.
- I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels embarassed by rap at times.
- I can understand not always feeling comfortable loudly blasting out music with offensive lyrics in public. There's being oneself and (unpurposely) advertising yourself as a backwards bigot or douchebag by association.
- Whether or not ' Rhythm-a-lism' is a classic album or not is besides the point, so those were pretty useless posts. That's the same old same old bickering about opinions much of this forum is about. Talk about tiresome!
- Whether or not I'm 'the life of the party' is neither here nor there. Was that meant to be some cheap shot at me? If your definition of being the life of the party is loving all vile and ignorant nonsense, draw your conclusions about your priorities and your mindset.
- I used to agree with that ' freely expressing yourself' aspect. If you do so however, you can also expect criticism for it and shouldn't nag about that. Using honesty as an excuse for saying horrible things doesn't make you a better person, but perhaps the world should at least be thankful you're proudly exposing yourself as the asshole you apparently are or present yourself as and leave no doubt there.
- If your evaluation of a person or anything people say is based on how much sex they get...do I really need to point out why that's impossible to take serious? Don't make a fool of yourself. If you insist, leave it to others who make it more entertaining to read.
Much of what you have stated was in this article Ice Cube exposed:
http://rappersexposed.hubpages.com/hub/Ice-Cube-Exposed
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Chuck D still knows what's up!
http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ
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I have a dope song for OP
http://youtube.com/v/YEr0oCHHuUk
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Chuck D still knows what's up!
http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ
Ive just finished watching this. A brilliant video!
Touched on many of the subjects and exposes the hypocrisy of some of the views and the dark side
of the effects of the music and image thats put out.
willie lynch must be proud!
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Chuck D still knows what's up!
http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ
Ive just finished watching this. A brilliant video!
Touched on many of the subjects and exposes the hypocrisy of some of the views and the dark side
of the effects of the music and image thats put out.
willie lynch must be proud!
Thought so, too. Glad that you liked it.
The perspective on how that hyper-masculine behavior really is a way of compensating an actual lack of power and control over one's own life made a lot of sense.
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I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.
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lol @ this thread. not because of the content more the responses and unsurprisingly quik is mentioned a lot. probably because he's the best example of the musically sublime with lyrically vulgar, though not all the time. kinda why i'd love to hear more r&b music from him, everyone loves 'lets get down'...
'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic
yup. quik is a conflicted character anyway, genius no doubt but like a lot of geniuses quite volatile & unstable. if we're gonna take west coast rap (the type being talked about here) seriously then some pretty unwholesome stuff is being said most of the time. doesn't that go without saying? and rap music has always been an outlet to say whatever, so if i'm entertained i'm not taking the lyrics too seriously. i never had a problem looking past that stuff and enjoying the artist on their own terms. they're a product of their environment, it is what it is. it may not be poltically correct but it's a whole attitude and culture thats flavour is unmistakable. there's a bright, sunny picture being painted in the midst of it all. west west y'all.
having said that...i agree with the main sentiment, namely that what the music is about is increasingly opposed to what i'm about. over time the unwholesome aspect of the lyrics becomes more pronounced, that's unavoidable. even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks :laugh:
one thing i'm not feeling is the righteous tone in the OP. aligning with more universal values - love, acceptance etc then at the same time casting judgement upon others who aren't on the same page. it's a big thing on the internet and with liberal/politically correct mindset to be offended and then shit on people who disagree or have different views, even if they are hateful, ignorant or whatever. it always comes off as hypocritical when i see it. the correct way to meet ignorance/confusion is with compassion, not proclamations of moral superiority.
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I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.
Pretty much on point
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I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.
I cant disagree with those views but the main difference is that the actors generally stop playing their character once the filming is finished.
Rappers generally continue to act in an ignorant way outside the studio claiming to keep it real.
Dont get me wrong a lot of the hollywood films and other music genres also have to take the blame. The difference with rappers though it (rightly or wrongly) reflects badly on the black and other minorities image. The slave mentality is still there but its black icons who are doing the work for the white men multinational executives keeping not just the black community but lower class people in general in check.
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Failed? Evolved is a better word.
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westcoast music has failed? not when the last 5 songs on the damn radio have been from cali and the last 8 out of 10 were produced by DJ Mustard.. calis basicly almost running the mainstream now
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I doubt the last few posts were written by people who actually bothered to read what I wrote before.
Anyways, some reactions again:
- I can understand why it might seem wrong to judge others by standards you set for yourself and which those people are not committed to. However, I think that isn't true here. If I judge people based on how humane they treat or talk of others, I feel I can objectively qualify that. Telling the difference between racist and misogynistic language on one hand and respectful language on the other is rather easy. Also, it's not like I'm not measuring myself by the same standards. I don't use such language myself, so I feel I can condemn others for doing so without being hypocritical. Of course, people are free to express themselves as they see fit, but that doesn't mean they're free from criticism- something ' freeze peach!'-yellers generally seem to forget or ignore. I feel I am totally justified in taking a tone of moral superiority and non-acceptance to people who insist on being a woman-bashing, homophobic, pro-violence, immature and ignorant macho. Deliberately embracing such values does not deserve compassion. Sure, rappers are products of their environment. Does that mean they can't show growth or should be mollycuddled? Show yourself to be a respectable and respectful person and you'll get my respect.
- I agree with those people who say that having the language and manners of many rappers reflects badly on African-Americans in general.
- DJ Quik might be a genius sonically, but he's an immature reactionary in terms of language. If he wants to be an esteemed artist, I'd dare say he first needs to clean up his act or he can't ever be taken as seriously as he probably feels is his due.
- Quik's name has come up often in this thread and indeed, as has been said, for good reason. However, he is one example among way too many. For those who said that westcoast rap simply is about profanity, vulgarity and the like, sure. However, creators are the ones who define what a genre is about. If rappers decide to move away from certain content, so will the genre itself. By now, I think that expecting some maturity from westcoast rap is far from unreasonable. It would seem far more dignified for 40 year olds to rap about real issues than about guns and bitches and if younger rappers want to make a real mark, they should perhaps consider moving away from the same old, cliched, tired and unoriginal subject matter other and often better rappers have been pushing for decades now.
- ' Failing' is, in retrospect, probably not the best term for what I meant when I wrote the OP. However, I do feel there is an enormous loss of potential among rappers in general and westcoast rap in particular by sticking to essentially immature and vile subject matter instead of upping the ante. In that sense, I'd say the genre hasn't evolved at all: It's the same old nonsense rehashed for the upteenth time, generally speaking.
- It's quite true that my criticisms can be levelled at many other genres too, however this is a westcoast rap forum so I'm restricting the argument here.
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It sounds like you need to move on and listen to a genre that suits you better. For you to single out west-coast hip hop/rap is weird since the other regions seem a whole lot worse.
Music is a form of entertainment just like movies/shows if you don't like Spice-1 because of his lyrics you can listen to Will Smith just like if you don't like The Soprano's you can watch Sister Wives. Nobody is forcing us nothing so there is a simple fix, tune out.
Good luck brother and keep growing/learning. Btw your post is very well written...
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@BIGWORM:
Thanks and you're quite right I need to move on. I've done so, to some extent. Part of me is a little annoyed by the lack of growth in westcoast rap. I'm not too familiar with other kinds, so I don't feel as confident talking about those.
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I doubt the last few posts were written by people who actually bothered to read what I wrote before.
Anyways, some reactions again:
- I can understand why it might seem wrong to judge others by standards you set for yourself and which those people are not committed to. However, I think that isn't true here. If I judge people based on how humane they treat or talk of others, I feel I can objectively qualify that. Telling the difference between racist and misogynistic language on one hand and respectful language on the other is rather easy. Also, it's not like I'm not measuring myself by the same standards. I don't use such language myself, so I feel I can condemn others for doing so without being hypocritical. Of course, people are free to express themselves as they see fit, but that doesn't mean they're free from criticism- something ' freeze peach!'-yellers generally seem to forget or ignore. I feel I am totally justified in taking a tone of moral superiority and non-acceptance to people who insist on being a woman-bashing, homophobic, pro-violence, immature and ignorant macho. Deliberately embracing such values does not deserve compassion. Sure, rappers are products of their environment. Does that mean they can't show growth or should be mollycuddled? Show yourself to be a respectable and respectful person and you'll get my respect.
- I agree with those people who say that having the language and manners of many rappers reflects badly on African-Americans in general.
- DJ Quik might be a genius sonically, but he's an immature reactionary in terms of language. If he wants to be an esteemed artist, I'd dare say he first needs to clean up his act or he can't ever be taken as seriously as he probably feels is his due.
- Quik's name has come up often in this thread and indeed, as has been said, for good reason. However, he is one example among way too many. For those who said that westcoast rap simply is about profanity, vulgarity and the like, sure. However, creators are the ones who define what a genre is about. If rappers decide to move away from certain content, so will the genre itself. By now, I think that expecting some maturity from westcoast rap is far from unreasonable. It would seem far more dignified for 40 year olds to rap about real issues than about guns and bitches and if younger rappers want to make a real mark, they should perhaps consider moving away from the same old, cliched, tired and unoriginal subject matter other and often better rappers have been pushing for decades now.
- ' Failing' is, in retrospect, probably not the best term for what I meant when I wrote the OP. However, I do feel there is an enormous loss of potential among rappers in general and westcoast rap in particular by sticking to essentially immature and vile subject matter instead of upping the ante. In that sense, I'd say the genre hasn't evolved at all: It's the same old nonsense rehashed for the upteenth time, generally speaking.
- It's quite true that my criticisms can be levelled at many other genres too, however this is a westcoast rap forum so I'm restricting the argument here.
Shut the fuck up
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(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/2/22563/1316623-obvious_troll.preview.jpg)
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I don't think u know the definition of a troll, I'm bein sincere when I tell you to shut the fuck up
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even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks :laugh:
heh...what about "the only reason bitch wore panties was to keep her ankles warm" haha I love suga free
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even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks :laugh:
heh...what about "the only reason bitch wore panties was to keep her ankles warm" haha I love suga free
z the faggot covers his ears when he hears lyrics like these
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G'z Up, Hoes Down... if that bitch can't swim then she's bound to drizzound! 8)
...And Z, if there is a problem with rap its definitely not Quik or any of the West Coast rappers... the problem with rap is all the teenage women (and the so-called males who follow them) that support that Snappin and Poppin-Shawty, A$$ A$$ A$$- put yo bootty on the floor-Lollipop-Shaawty got a big old Booty-This Bitch is so Thirsty- Lil MAma- down South Coonery and Bafoonery... Write about that and you have my support, but leave the legends out West alone.
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G'z Up, Hoes Down... if that bitch can't swim then she's bound to drizzound! 8)
...And Z, if there is a problem with rap its definitely not Quik or any of the West Coast rappers... the problem with rap is all the teenage women (and the so-called males who follow them) that support that Snappin and Poppin-Shawty, Azz Azz A$$- put yo bootty on the floor-Lollipop-Shaawty got a big old Booty-This Bitch is so Thirsty- Lil MAma- down South Coonery and Bafoonery... Write about that and you have my support, but leave the legends out West alone.
even that has its place, just when it's over-done and starts saturatin the entire game is when it gets tired
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even that has its place, just when it's over-done and starts saturatin the entire game is when it gets tired
naw.. it fuccin sucks any day of the week... your sheltered from it because you live out West. One of the greatest joys of looking through mid-90's Source issues for me is that the South was basically non-existent at that time. Puts a smile on my face to see a hip-hop world that does not include the South. You had a few Master P ads, and you had Scarface doin his thing in Texas, and that was it.
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maybe its worse in kc, but not that bad out here..u know it's not my taste, but what truly makes it terrible is that it was part of the downfall of west coast rap. if u had juvenile back that azz up and mystikal shake ya ass on the side, it's alright, everything is ok...but when that becomes the go-to sound in hip-hop is when shit fucked up, cuzzin
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maybe its worse in kc, but not that bad out here..u know it's not my taste, but what truly makes it terrible is that it was part of the downfall of west coast rap. if u had juvenile back that azz up and mystikal shake ya ass on the side, it's alright, everything is ok...but when that becomes the go-to sound in hip-hop is when shit fucked up, cuzzin
agreed... if a track like "Back That Azz Up" became a hit every now and then it wouldn't be a huge deal. Might add some flava to the game or whatever... The problem is that it became a trend and rap fans with a low musical IQ could take to that kind of trash much easier. The good stuff back in the day usually had to grow on you for a minute, then these down South rappers figured out how to catch the attention of casual fans with short tension spans
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Years ago, I read allmusic.com's review of DJ Quik's 'Rhythm-al-ism' and I remember being pissed off by it. It said, and still says: "Just what rap needs: one more guy boasting about his majestic penis and how good he is at treating women like gutter trash." Back then, I thought this very unfair commentary. Reading the review again, I still feel the reviewer misses the musical quality that's largely responsible for why this album is good to listen to, but I can only agree with that trashing I cited. Over the last five years or so, I've grown as a person and I'd say for the better. I am happy about that because I feel that striving to be the best person you can be and wanting to make the world a better place for everyone you know is a good goal for anyone and should ultimately be every person's desire. However, it has also resulted in me growing ever more uncomfortable with many elements of westcoast rap, which I used to be a fan of and still enjoy in terms of sound. There's a number of reasons for that discomfort.
First, I think the main subject matter in westcoast rap goes completely against what my principles have come to be. I can only condemn and mock misogyny, homophobia, violence, willfull ignorance, crime, gangs and egotism yet those are important subjects and themes in westcoast rap. That list misses drugs and especially weed as a subject. While I'm not and have never been a drug user myself, I suppose anyone who wants to can use drugs even if they perhaps shouldn't. I'm indifferent to it as subject matter, though it certainly gets tiresome to me. Mainstream westcoast rap of course does have a positive side in its subject matter, of course. Unity, friendship, comradery and family are commonly referred to as well, and those are positive values. However, all of those are often drenched in aggression as well; 'We against the other' instead of 'all together'.
That brings us to tribalism; 'Othering' is rampant in westcoast hiphop and then there's the utter stupidity of gangs. As long as westcoast rap excels in promoting a mindset that includes feelings of superioity towards others and condemnation of others it can never be a positive influence. This is easy to spot in many fans at this forum. They 'ride' for their rapper of choice and go apeshit when he's criticised for whatever and can't deal with differing opinions and lose all rationality they may or may not have had before. Rappers of course do nothing to counter this and instead promote the idolatry around themselves and may well believe in their own hype. There's very little sentimental difference between this on one hand and one tribe of cavemen massacring another one. Both are expressions of a primitive, deplorable, ignorant and contemptible mindset. Once again, westcoast rap promotes rather than acts against such thinking.
I feel that's a great mistake many rappers have made, driven by their fans and vice versa: Rap is a great way for expression, mockery and criticism in a potentially artful way and has often been used to adress real problems in the world and their solutions. However, westcoast rap has done very little of the sort in recent times (not that this a problem confined to westcoast rap), instead specialising in negative messages and setting dreadful examples. I feel that is a lot of squandered potential and a misuse of the power many rappers have as esteemed artists, even if it might be what their fans desire of them.
The fans, oh the fans! Even when I was a lot younger and very positive about westcoast rap (I even explained all its negativity away as 'being honest about the way humans really think about each other), I often felt a little embarassed to tell people I was into it. Why? It's associated with numbskulls who excel in their ignorance, adopt stupid walks, wear ridiculous clothing and jewelry, adopt a horrible faux accent and have an obsession with 'being tough' and ultimately anti-social. This is what I mean when I say many rappers misuse their power over their fans. Of course, dumbfucks will be dumbfucks but those can certainly be trained or educated too. Instead of teaching misogyny, sagging, homophobia and the importance of chains and chain-snatching, rappers might have used their voices to teach or inspire positively. Lost opportunities galore.
Also realise, as this forum often proves, that overcompensation for insecurity or feelings of inferiority seem to underlay westcoast rap, its rappers and its fans to an astonishing degree. It seems logical that music that largely deals with people who are 'the man', get all the money, women and fancy stuff appeals to those who want to be respected, want to feel vindicated and feel entitled to all those things I mentioned. As a teenager, that certainly played a role in me liking westcoast rap, but I've outgrown that and come to appreciate the music more for its rhythm and vibe than for its subject matter, which tends to be dreck and extremely repetitive to me. Perhaps most people will outgrow it. I certainly hope so. If that happens however, it's unlikely to be because of rap itself but more from external influences. What that means is that westcoast rap may well be holding its more pathetic listeners back, making them feel entitled and frustrated or keeping them there rather than leading them to greener psychological pastures. Lost potential again.
Of course, rappers alone are not all to blame, since clearly people like the negative subject matter and labels sell it. We can all name examples of rappers who started out with a message but lost that along the way. Even so, the medium also molds the consumer so we are probably looking at a vicious circle here. Yet, pandering to the ignorant and validating their negative or anti-social feelings is not a good thing and that energy could have been spent far better. That many a rapper appears to be an ignoramus himself or herself isn't helpful either.
I don't want to end this post without giving special mention to misogyny, because I consider that one of the most insidious elements of westcoast rap (and rap in general). Misogyny is not endemic to rap in the sense that it only exists there. Mockery, objectification and hatred of women is very common. Just look at any commentary on any women that appear online in whatever way possible. However, I feel it is perhaps the most negative aspect of westcoast rap in a way. This because it is something so widespread and which all listeners of westcoast rap are going to come across or propagate in their lifes, unlike gangs or drug dealers which many listeners are probably never going to really experience. Women however are everywhere and this means that a culture that promotes misogyny is likely to have a direct negative outcome in the lifes of many people. Promoting mutually respectful and loving relationships between men and women (or just about anyone) is a lot more commendable than spreading hatred and vitriol and promoting that other human beings are sub-human in one way or another. Unfortunately, westcoast hiphop has largely failed to realise or express that, meaning it feeds toxicity into society and interpersonal relationships. Wasted potential, and that's putting it mildly.
Nowadays, I have to agree with what that reviewer said about 'Rhytm-a-lism'. It is a horrible album in subject matter. To me, however the experience is bittersweet. I love the beats and melodies on the album and I think both DJ Quik and his guests do a great job throughout in adding to those beats and melodies vocally. It's a shame that they fill that atmosphere with shit in terms of what they actually say. A wasted opportunity and thus exemplary of westcoast rap.
u do know the guy who wrote the review for the quik album..reviews jazz and also a hypocrite..
how he dislike...no doubt..and said what he said..then on a entirely different site pertaining to jazz..one of his favorite song is come by prince...i been followin chris for yrs..jazz is his niche...
had he reviewed the production he would have an entirely different review...
thats like me goin to review gospel music n sayin jus what gospel music need another person singin about jesus..
chris didnt know he was just doin it to be doin it.
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u do know the guy who wrote the review for the quik album..reviews jazz and also a hypocrite..
how he dislike...no doubt..and said what he said..then on a entirely different site pertaining to jazz..one of his favorite song is come by prince...i been followin chris for yrs..jazz is his niche...
had he reviewed the production he would have an entirely different review...
thats like me goin to review gospel music n sayin jus what gospel music need another person singin about jesus..
chris didnt know he was just doin it to be doin it.
Nice post... and I like your analogy of some outsider doing a review of gospel music and saying, "just what we need, another song about Jesus, this shit is played out", LOL.... props
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You sound like huge faggot who pretends to be offended when he hears curse words. I'm tired of people labeling artists as racists and homophobes just because they use certain words. It seems like words speak louder than actions these days.
Also
Shut the fuck up
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You sound like huge faggot who pretends to be offended when he hears curse words. I'm tired of people labeling artists as racists and homophobes just because they use certain words. It seems like words speak louder than actions these days.
Also
Shut the fuck up
Z is a female.. one of the few females here, and an O.G. at the forum... she used to be pretty cool (even dated a member on the forum, dubcc love connection 8)), but sounds like she feigns herself to be so "mature" now... Maybe she listens to Dave Mathews Band now because she has grown so much.... I don't buy it, just another O.G. who has sold out
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^lol u thinkin of a different Z, but in essence, he is a female
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The Twinz - eastside LB , Round and Round , Warren G - This D.J , So many ways , Kurupt - We can freak it , Space boogie , Tha Eastsidaz - G'd up , MC Eiht - Thicker than water , All for the. money , Can I kill it , The Click - Wolf tickets , Dubee - My thang , Mac Dre - Since 84 , Dr Dre - Still dre , Let me ride , Tha dogg pound - Smooth , I don'like to dream about getting paid , Nate dogg - Nobody does it better , Dru Down - Can you feel me. , Celly Cel - It's Goin down tonight , Tupac - Do for love , Ambitions as a today , Ice Cube - It was a good day , Tha nigga you love to hate , Too Short - Cocktails , Don't fight the feelin , Gettin it , Above the law - black superman , DJ Quik - Tonight , Dollaz N Sense , Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggy dogg world , Sixx minutes , N.W.A - Express ya self , Dayz of Wayback , Cypress hill - How I can just kill a man , Prelude to ah come up , Etc Etc 8) 8)
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How pathetic and enlightening to see dissent and a desire for some sophistication equated by some people here to 'being gay' or, even more laughably, 'being female'. That you consider being female to be an insult in itself shows an awful lot about your misogyny mixed with shortsighted definitions of perceived masculinity.
Let's hope you might grow some maturity and a more positive worldview. Here's two things that might help you on your way to a better understanding of yourself, the culture you come from and society:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJr5iUhORvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tpL1K8ZqrU
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Z is a female.. one of the few females here, and an O.G. at the forum... she used to be pretty cool (even dated a member on the forum, dubcc love connection 8)), but sounds like she feigns herself to be so "mature" now... Maybe she listens to Dave Mathews Band now because she has grown so much.... I don't buy it, just another O.G. who has sold out
An intelligent female hip-hop fan? Call me sheltered, but isn't that rare? That puts a whole new light on the original post for me. Respect.
Another way rap in general has failed for me: production over vocals. Back in the day, if you sucked vocally, either in flow or lyrics, you were wack, no matter what your beat sounded like. A good beat makes a good SONG, not a good RAPPER. Now the top ten is filled with artists who barely say any words and have "slappin" beats. Niggas In Paris is one of the stupidest and wackest songs I have ever heard...and this is coming from the top rappers in the game!!
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^lol u thinkin of a different Z, but in essence, he is a female
ironic
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How pathetic and enlightening to see dissent and a desire for some sophistication equated by some people here to 'being gay' or, even more laughably, 'being female'. That you consider being female to be an insult in itself shows an awful lot about your misogyny mixed with shortsighted definitions of perceived masculinity.
Let's hope you might grow some maturity and a more positive worldview. Here's two things that might help you on your way to a better understanding of yourself, the culture you come from and society:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJr5iUhORvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tpL1K8ZqrU
Shut the fuck up.
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I feel inclined to keep posting in this thread, just to spite NikCC. However, that might be feeding the trolls. What a delicate flower he must be if the very concept of trying to improve yourself as a person, facing your shortcomings or criticizing artists seems to upset him to the point of apparently being unable to do more than the written equivalent of stamping his feet in anger and trying to bully me into silence by doing so.
Grow some substance, grow a spine, grow some selfreflection, grow altogether. If this leads to another desparate 'shut the fuck up!', I rest my case.
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I feel inclined to keep posting in this thread, just to spite NikCC. However, that might be feeding the trolls. What a delicate flower he must be if the very concept of trying to improve yourself as a person, facing your shortcomings or criticizing artists seems to upset him to the point of apparently being unable to do more than the written equivalent of stamping his feet in anger and trying to bully me into silence by doing so.
Grow some substance, grow a spine, grow some selfreflection, grow altogether. If this leads to another desparate 'shut the fuck up!', I rest my case.
Shut the fuck up.
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Z is rolling his eyes right now goin "on my gosh, look what rap has done to people", with his pinkie in the air
Z sounds like such a bitch that infinite thought he was a bitch, and that other dude said "hold up, he's a female? Ok, now it makes more sense"
Z's balls are shrinking with each post and he thinks thats ok.
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I feel inclined to keep posting in this thread, just to spite NikCC. However, that might be feeding the trolls.
Heh, yeah. If that is all he says instead of giving a contradictory argument, it's like talking to a wall.
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What type of responses were you expecting? You're posting on a rap forum about how you are ashamed of listening to rap and how you have outgrown the music and that you hope that everyone else does. I can only speak for myself but you come across as a pompous faggot. :camp:
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Of course I wasn't expecting much in the way of positive responses. After all, this is Dubcc, where internet tough guys, online gangbangers and ignorant machos (in an much as those groups don't overlap) form herds and stampede over each other's delicate and irrational preferences and dislikes. You can't expect much insight from such a community. In fact, I was surprised that some people actually reacted in a respectable way.
But my main point? Take a look at the topic title. I feel that westcoast rap could be so much more than it is and that its artists in general waste their energy and their talent on making the same old tired cliched nonsense and that the genre could have been so much more. Rapping doesn't have to be about money, violence, drugs and bitches, does it? It's not even that profanity in itself is something I'm bothered by. But I am bothered by lack of effort and lack of originality.
You know, I'm even going to go so far as quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica here (I know, that's stooping very low but then this is Dubcc, so I shouldn't be aiming as high as I did anyway), because their list of what's going on in rap lyrics, though satirical, is painfully close to reality. Read the list and tell me it's not close to what most westcoast rap is about, minus the New York and KFC reference.
For a song to classify as rap, one must be able to identify most or all of the following elements:
A list of felonies
Ebonics
Swearing every other line
Even though not in concert, you must use phrases that refer to you being in an actual concert, such as "Put ya' hands in da' air"
Lyrics or titles containing the pseudomorph tha. as in Tha Cops Was Aksin' Me
Multiple references to some sort of "hood" or "projects". (Somewhere in New York is always a good place to start.)
Lyrics about raping white women in KFC (they were asking for it which is always the case).
Police sirens.
Anything describing sex
Singing about hard times
Drugs -- lots of drugs
By the way, I really am pompous, so that's not much of an insult. But if merely wanting something more from westcoast rap than what's been done for nearly 30 years is unreasonable and makes the chimps here go bananas, that says enough about the fans' role in why the genre is as fossilized as it is. Westcoast rap in its current form is a zombie long due being pushed back into its grave and its fans let it keep walking.
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I don't think so much pressure should be put on the west coast rap scene. You make it seem like there is no diversity in the music. In the 90's you had artists and groups like The Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief, Ras Kass, J5 and many more who were doing their own thing. I don't really know who is hot these days but Odd Future are pretty big and they are definitely not gangster rappers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBhf-gEvQug
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When rap started, very few items in that list were included. But music, along with everything else, gets worse as times go on. I can tolerate the language and subject matter as long as the beat and vocals are good. Sometimes the subject although bad is written in a humorous way. But yea it is very repetitive to the point where I rarely listen to anything current anymore.
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What type of responses were you expecting? You're posting on a rap forum about how you are ashamed of listening to rap and how you have outgrown the music and that you hope that everyone else does. I can only speak for myself but you come across as a pompous faggot. :camp:
There u go.. And dp is just as bad, rationalizing this bitchmade behavior smfh
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Of course I wasn't expecting much in the way of positive responses. After all, this is Dubcc, where internet tough guys, online gangbangers and ignorant machos (in an much as those groups don't overlap) form herds and stampede over each other's delicate and irrational preferences and dislikes. You can't expect much insight from such a community. In fact, I was surprised that some people actually reacted in a respectable way.
But my main point? Take a look at the topic title. I feel that westcoast rap could be so much more than it is and that its artists in general waste their energy and their talent on making the same old tired cliched nonsense and that the genre could have been so much more. Rapping doesn't have to be about money, violence, drugs and bitches, does it? It's not even that profanity in itself is something I'm bothered by. But I am bothered by lack of effort and lack of originality.
You know, I'm even going to go so far as quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica here (I know, that's stooping very low but then this is Dubcc, so I shouldn't be aiming as high as I did anyway), because their list of what's going on in rap lyrics, though satirical, is painfully close to reality. Read the list and tell me it's not close to what most westcoast rap is about, minus the New York and KFC reference.
For a song to classify as rap, one must be able to identify most or all of the following elements:
A list of felonies
Ebonics
Swearing every other line
Even though not in concert, you must use phrases that refer to you being in an actual concert, such as "Put ya' hands in da' air"
Lyrics or titles containing the pseudomorph tha. as in Tha Cops Was Aksin' Me
Multiple references to some sort of "hood" or "projects". (Somewhere in New York is always a good place to start.)
Lyrics about raping white women in KFC (they were asking for it which is always the case).
Police sirens.
Anything describing sex
Singing about hard times
Drugs -- lots of drugs
By the way, I really am pompous, so that's not much of an insult. But if merely wanting something more from westcoast rap than what's been done for nearly 30 years is unreasonable and makes the chimps here go bananas, that says enough about the fans' role in why the genre is as fossilized as it is. Westcoast rap in its current form is a zombie long due being pushed back into its grave and its fans let it keep walking.
Wtf are u goin on about?? There's a ganga different sub-genres of rap, from positive to negative...just like cinema, just like anything in life
Also...
Shut the fuck up.
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After all, this is Dubcc, so I shouldn't be aiming as high as I did anyway),
This right here is your problem.. You sound like a pretentious faggot. Your holier than thou approach makes you easy to wana slap.
And godamn, I didn't even read the KFC part until now... This faggot is tryna fight west coast rap with racism. You would be owning slaves right now if it were legal, you bitch.
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After all, this is Dubcc, so I shouldn't be aiming as high as I did anyway),
This right here is your problem.. You sound like a pretentious faggot. Your holier than thou approach makes you easy to wana slap.
And godamn, I didn't even read the KFC part until now... This faggot is tryna fight west coast rap with racism. You would be owning slaves right now if it were legal, you bitch.
Word... I'm curious to know what his definition of "mature" music is. Like Arab poet Khalil Gibran says, "Music is the sound that can't be spoken (in regular words), but can not be kept silent". Or as Mos Def says, hip-hop is not some giant in the hillside but it is the voice of the people. If you want to know where hip-hop is at, look at where the people are at.
So my point is, that like Sccit says, you are being a pretentious faggot if you are too good for the 90's West Coast golden age because you suddenly feign some sort of maturity. What is your "mature" music you listen to now? Because the world is still the world, and actually the Western World has declined since the 90's golden age.
The world has declined, a man is not even a man these days as he was then. At least in the 90's golden age where Quik comes from a man was a man and a bitch was a bitch. Now the trend in music is that men follow the women and that the women create the trends. So do you prefer Niki Minaj? Because that's what shit has been degraded to...The bitches are runing shit now... Niki even calls herself a bitch and a hoe and she is runnin shit in the lowly state of today's rap game.
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At least in the 90's golden age where Quik comes from a man was a man and a bitch was a bitch.
Z lets his girl fuck him with a strap-on
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'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic
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Another problem is this style of music is a huge moneymaker. Ice-T, 2 Live Crew and NWA were the catalyst, and when they blew up, other artists jumped on. Now artists just keep feeding the people what they want.
Nicki Minaj is runnin things, but look at how she lowers herself to do it. Queen Latifah and Salt & Pepa would have never stooped to her level.
We all have our own opinions, no reason to fight about it y'all.
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I did say I was quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica. For who doesn't know that site, it's meant to troll and offend. My point there was that their assessment of what mainstream rap's lyrics are about are over the top but also ring terribly true. To equate that with racism on my part is overly emotional. If I quote, I feel I should quote the whole shebang and not just choice bits, so that's why it was there. On the other hand, I can see why quoting that part muddied the waters, so perhaps I shouldn't have. As for 'you'd be having slaves!', way to overreact and 'slime the opposition' as it were. Let me be high and mighty again, as you guys put it, and say I've probably got more empathy in my pinkie than many of you in your entire bodies. Why else would I make a fuss about misogyny and homophobia and presumably qualify as 'bleeding hearts liberal'?
Amusing to see how the nostalgia filter is being used here 'back in my day, Quik was telling it like it is!' Fuck that, Quik has never told it like it is, except the way it was in the narrow, entitled, immature minds of himself, his crew and many of his fans. He's always been good with beats, but a tantrum-throwing, substanceless manchild on the microphone (and as a person, I might add). If he has said a word of wisdom sometime (and I mean something wiser than 'I never put my name on a track that ain't mine'), it's been drowned out by all the negative bullshit he's peddled at any other time. I repeat, I like the sound of his music but really, lyrically he's a great example of why westcoast rap on the whole is about negativity and without substance. America's most complete artist? Leave out the third grade language and we'll talk, Quik.
And yes, there are other rappers out there. But to what extent are they the face of westcoast hiphop? They aren't, they're sideshows catering to a peripheric audience.
I don't doubt I come off high and mighty if I say I shouldn't aim high here, but really, if reactions consist of 'shut the fuck up', 'Z is a female' ,'Z lets himself get fucked with a strap-on' and 'Z is a faggot', do you really set the bar high enough for me not mock you?
And sure, vulgar language in music can be fun and work, but you do need to make an effort. Here's a few examples of when it does work in a way that's not an embarassment to the artist:
http://youtu.be/kIo6R01ZUuc
http://youtu.be/TfHCxIiZ_4M
Unfortunately, most westcoast rappers seem to aim for the profanity for profanity's sake, rather then to do something fun with it. An exception might be Suga Free, if he didn't likely mean every misogynistic word he's ever said.
And come on? What's mature music? You're fighting a strawman there. The examples I gave here aren't mature music in subject matter, but at least they put in an effort for originality. I find that woefully missing in most of westcoast rap. But, to throw you a bone anyway, 'mature' music at least aims somewhat higher than third-grade. Kicking up instead of kicking down (by attacking, say, women or gays who are already less privileged) might be a good start for rappers. Rapping about something else than the size of their wallet, jersey's, dicks, weedsacks and chains might be a good look as well. Leave behind the mentality and subject matter that makes people not take rappers seriously. Is that hard to understand?
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I did say I was quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica. For who doesn't know that site, it's meant to troll and offend. My point there was that their assessment of what mainstream rap's lyrics are about are over the top but also ring terribly true. To equate that with racism on my part is overly emotional. If I quote, I feel I should quote the whole shebang and not just choice bits, so that's why it was there. On the other hand, I can see why quoting that part muddied the waters, so perhaps I shouldn't have. As for 'you'd be having slaves!', way to overreact and 'slime the opposition' as it were. Let me be high and mighty again, as you guys put it, and say I've probably got more empathy in my pinkie than many of you in your entire bodies. Why else would I make a fuss about misogyny and homophobia and presumably qualify as 'bleeding hearts liberal'?
Amusing to see how the nostalgia filter is being used here 'back in my day, Quik was telling it like it is!' Fuck that, Quik has never told it like it is, except the way it was in the narrow, entitled, immature minds of himself, his crew and many of his fans. He's always been good with beats, but a tantrum-throwing, substanceless manchild on the microphone (and as a person, I might add). If he has said a word of wisdom sometime (and I mean something wiser than 'I never put my name on a track that ain't mine'), it's been drowned out by all the negative bullshit he's peddled at any other time. I repeat, I like the sound of his music but really, lyrically he's a great example of why westcoast rap on the whole is about negativity and without substance. America's most complete artist? Leave out the third grade language and we'll talk, Quik.
And yes, there are other rappers out there. But to what extent are they the face of westcoast hiphop? They aren't, they're sideshows catering to a peripheric audience.
I don't doubt I come off high and mighty if I say I shouldn't aim high here, but really, if reactions consist of 'shut the fuck up', 'Z is a female' ,'Z lets himself get fucked with a strap-on' and 'Z is a faggot', do you really set the bar high enough for me not mock you?
And sure, vulgar language in music can be fun and work, but you do need to make an effort. Here's a few examples of when it does work in a way that's not an embarassment to the artist:
http://youtu.be/kIo6R01ZUuc
http://youtu.be/TfHCxIiZ_4M
Unfortunately, most westcoast rappers seem to aim for the profanity for profanity's sake, rather then to do something fun with it. An exception might be Suga Free, if he didn't likely mean every misogynistic word he's ever said.
And come on? What's mature music? You're fighting a strawman there. The examples I gave here aren't mature music in subject matter, but at least they put in an effort for originality. I find that woefully missing in most of westcoast rap. But, to throw you a bone anyway, 'mature' music at least aims somewhat higher than third-grade. Kicking up instead of kicking down (by attacking, say, women or gays who are already less privileged) might be a good start for rappers. Rapping about something else than the size of their wallet, jersey's, dicks, weedsacks and chains might be a good look as well. Leave behind the mentality and subject matter that makes people not take rappers seriously. Is that hard to understand?
Shut the fuck up.
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I did say I was quoting Encyclopedia Dramatica. For who doesn't know that site, it's meant to troll and offend. My point there was that their assessment of what mainstream rap's lyrics are about are over the top but also ring terribly true. To equate that with racism on my part is overly emotional. If I quote, I feel I should quote the whole shebang and not just choice bits, so that's why it was there. On the other hand, I can see why quoting that part muddied the waters, so perhaps I shouldn't have. As for 'you'd be having slaves!', way to overreact and 'slime the opposition' as it were. Let me be high and mighty again, as you guys put it, and say I've probably got more empathy in my pinkie than many of you in your entire bodies. Why else would I make a fuss about misogyny and homophobia and presumably qualify as 'bleeding hearts liberal'?
Amusing to see how the nostalgia filter is being used here 'back in my day, Quik was telling it like it is!' Fuck that, Quik has never told it like it is, except the way it was in the narrow, entitled, immature minds of himself, his crew and many of his fans. He's always been good with beats, but a tantrum-throwing, substanceless manchild on the microphone (and as a person, I might add). If he has said a word of wisdom sometime (and I mean something wiser than 'I never put my name on a track that ain't mine'), it's been drowned out by all the negative bullshit he's peddled at any other time. I repeat, I like the sound of his music but really, lyrically he's a great example of why westcoast rap on the whole is about negativity and without substance. America's most complete artist? Leave out the third grade language and we'll talk, Quik.
And yes, there are other rappers out there. But to what extent are they the face of westcoast hiphop? They aren't, they're sideshows catering to a peripheric audience.
I don't doubt I come off high and mighty if I say I shouldn't aim high here, but really, if reactions consist of 'shut the fuck up', 'Z is a female' ,'Z lets himself get fucked with a strap-on' and 'Z is a faggot', do you really set the bar high enough for me not mock you?
And sure, vulgar language in music can be fun and work, but you do need to make an effort. Here's a few examples of when it does work in a way that's not an embarassment to the artist:
http://youtu.be/kIo6R01ZUuc
http://youtu.be/TfHCxIiZ_4M
Unfortunately, most westcoast rappers seem to aim for the profanity for profanity's sake, rather then to do something fun with it. An exception might be Suga Free, if he didn't likely mean every misogynistic word he's ever said.
And come on? What's mature music? You're fighting a strawman there. The examples I gave here aren't mature music in subject matter, but at least they put in an effort for originality. I find that woefully missing in most of westcoast rap. But, to throw you a bone anyway, 'mature' music at least aims somewhat higher than third-grade. Kicking up instead of kicking down (by attacking, say, women or gays who are already less privileged) might be a good start for rappers. Rapping about something else than the size of their wallet, jersey's, dicks, weedsacks and chains might be a good look as well. Leave behind the mentality and subject matter that makes people not take rappers seriously. Is that hard to understand?
Shut the fuck up.
So, are you trolling, an idiot who can't argue or utterly unable to either deal with or ignore things you don't like?
Mind you, none of the above is an excuse for still stamping your feet here but considering the question might lead to some selfawareness on your part. Of course, I can tell what your insightful, well thought out and eloquent response to this is going to be. Do dig that hole deeper, you're the one it proves to be a buffoon.
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Z sounds like the principle from How High
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Z sounds like the principle from How High
Wow! *slow clap* Something new from you. Is this going to be your next phrase for the coming five posts?
By the way, the word you're looking for is 'principal'. A principle is used as in 'I consider sagging my pants on the street to show I'm totes not an insecure macho one of my principles'. Do I, as a non-native speaker of English, need to school you in what's presumably your own language?
I haven't seen that film, by the way, I'm not interested in stoner flicks, but I presume that principal is supposed to be your typical uptight, not understanding, overly concerned, funstopping, rules-abiding cartboard cut-out character that you find in films that are supposed to be about rebels who really are idiots? Good to know you're coming up with persuasive arguments as to why I'm wrong and you are right. Don't strain your brain with those mental gymnastics.
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Snoops message about not loving hoes was important in a time when movies like "Pretty Woman" were popular. I don't consider that misogyny.
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Snoops message about not loving hoes was important in a time when movies like "Pretty Woman" were popular. I don't consider that misogyny.
Are you seriously suggesting Snoop's oeuvre at the time (and I suppose the 20 years afterward, on the whole he hasn't changed his subject matter much) was based on romantic films? Really?
Movies like 'Pretty Woman'? Well, name me a few others from around that time frame with the same theme? You can't say 'films like such and such were popular' when you've only got that one film.
Why is it not misogyny to talk about women as hoes because there might be one, two or even a hundred films out there in which someone is in love with a prostitute?
Why was it, ever, important to talk about women as whores?
Why was it ever important to make sure people who visit prostitutes don't fall in love with them? Why would it have been more important then? Also, shouldn't he rather have told men not to go there instead of putting the blame on the professional sexworker?
What would you consider misogyny if referring to all or most women as whores isn't?
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If so, it's no surprise. Movies have influenced hip-hop. For example, so many rappers wanted to be like Scarface.
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Z sounds like the principle from How High
Wow! *slow clap* Something new from you. Is this going to be your next phrase for the coming five posts?
By the way, the word you're looking for is 'principal'. A principle is used as in 'I consider sagging my pants on the street to show I'm totes not an insecure macho one of my principles'. Do I, as a non-native speaker of English, need to school you in what's presumably your own language?
I haven't seen that film, by the way, I'm not interested in stoner flicks, but I presume that principal is supposed to be your typical uptight, not understanding, overly concerned, funstopping, rules-abiding cartboard cut-out character that you find in films that are supposed to be about rebels who really are idiots? Good to know you're coming up with persuasive arguments as to why I'm wrong and you are right. Don't strain your brain with those mental gymnastics.
Ain't nobody on a west coast hip-hop forum tryna debate with bill orielly
Just shut the fuck up and everything will be okay.
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I find this thread quite funny. Who the hell takes rap music seriously? (ok i know there is at least one guy on this forum who feels like rap music is his religion. It's his parents fault probably. don't blame him).
Well.. rap music is a big lie even though people around the world claim it to be the realest music genre on planet earth. No. Rap music like any other "pop" music is nothing but entertainment. It's not an art. It's a f*cking entertainment.
And all these rappers do whatever they can do to entertain their listeners. Most of the time they lie. Just because these lies are entertaining. Speaking of gangsta west coast rap...real gangsters don't spend their time in the record booth.real gangsters don't speak about their crimes to milinos of listeners around the world. Only entertainers, so called studio gangsters rhyme about their imaginary crimes in public. Same thing goes with their sexuality, sexual conquests and relationships with women.
Of course, there are some exceptions but i guess it would be like 1% of the whole rap scene around the world.
Even in my younger days i knew the west coast rap is just a form of entertainment and it's nothing that should be followed by anybody. When you realize this you will also realize that west coast rap never failed at it.
I know that this form expression is quite brutal, homopohobic, chauvinistic and most of the time real dumb. But sometimes i like to spend time listening to it just like i like to watch gangster movies sometimes or dumb comedies. On the other hand i listen to jazz music very often, i watch psychological dramas very often. Just a different form of entertainment. And it really depends on the mood when it comes to 'what should i watch/listen to today'.
Speaking of Quik... my wife loves his music. She never found his music offensive probably because she knows that this is nothing but easy-listening music with dumb lyrics. She always was like "i would like this music more if the lyrics wasn't that dumb but i like it anyways. These guys are funny".
So in my opinion gangsta rap music was never a problem. The problem are people who take it seriously.
I tell you what... there is no single rapper on planet earth that i would call idol of mine. If you can name one your idol then you should really ask yourself what went wrong in your life.
Peace!
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I find this thread quite funny. Who the hell takes rap music seriously? (ok i know there is at least one guy on this forum who feels like rap music is his religion. It's his parents fault probably. don't blame him).
Well.. rap music is a big lie even though people around the world claim it to be the realest music genre on planet earth. No. Rap music like any other "pop" music is nothing but entertainment. It's not an art. It's a f*cking entertainment.
And all these rappers do whatever they can do to entertain their listeners. Most of the time they lie. Just because these lies are entertaining. Speaking of gangsta west coast rap...real gangsters don't spend their time in the record booth.real gangsters don't speak about their crimes to milinos of listeners around the world. Only entertainers, so called studio gangsters rhyme about their imaginary crimes in public. Same thing goes with their sexuality, sexual conquests and relationships with women.
Of course, there are some exceptions but i guess it would be like 1% of the whole rap scene around the world.
Even in my younger days i knew the west coast rap is just a form of entertainment and it's nothing that should be followed by anybody. When you realize this you will also realize that west coast rap never failed at it.
I know that this form expression is quite brutal, homopohobic, chauvinistic and most of the time real dumb. But sometimes i like to spend time listening to it just like i like to watch gangster movies sometimes or dumb comedies. On the other hand i listen to jazz music very often, i watch psychological dramas very often. Just a different form of entertainment. And it really depends on the mood when it comes to 'what should i watch/listen to today'.
Speaking of Quik... my wife loves his music. She never found his music offensive probably because she knows that this is nothing but easy-listening music with dumb lyrics. She always was like "i would like this music more if the lyrics wasn't that dumb but i like it anyways. These guys are funny".
So in my opinion gangsta rap music was never a problem. The problem are people who take it seriously.
I tell you what... there is no single rapper on planet earth that i would call idol of mine. If you can name one your idol then you should really ask yourself what went wrong in your life.
Peace!
Thanks, I think that's a good and insightful reply, even if I don't neccessarily agree with everything you say. You see, saying that something 'is what it is' and is 'just entertainment' does feel like a cop-out to me. It doesn't mean it's free from any criticism, nor that it can't aspire to be more. Perhaps you could say that the whole buffoonish culture that leads to the dumbest rap being the most commercially viable is what I dislike. I would never say that anything artistic or in terms of harmless entertainment should be forbidden, yet I find it disturbing that apparently so many people readily gobble up the subject matter in most rap, including westcoast rap. I think it might be overly optimistic to say that no one takes it seriously. What's more, there are many negative cultural assumptions with, say, women but also with black people for example, and I do find it somewhat disturbing that rap in general propagates and reinforces those assumptions. My point in saying 'westcoast rap has failed' (which I certainly agree is an overly dramatic and grandiose statement) is that it could have been so much more but doesn't seem to aspire to that on the whole. The analogy someone made with gospel always being about Jesus doesn't get very far, because in rap you could basically rap about anything you want and you are not neccessarily restricted to sex and violence, but that's still what most rappers choose to rap about.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/YEr0oCHHuUk
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https://www.youtube.com/v/YEr0oCHHuUk
Yawn.
"Intelligent input, darling, why don't you have another beer then?"
(Kate Nash)
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How u feel about that song tho?
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Respect to Shoo for his post.
I might not agree 100% with it but at least he has argued his point of view constructively.
So of the replies are ironic as they prove the OP' s point about how music and culture surrounding it is helping to enforce certain stereotypes to the point it has become a cliche.
Anyway, it like I've said in an earlier reply, it's not really just west coast rap or rap as whole, but the whole music and entertainment industry in general.
So with some exceptions, it's become like fast food/ McDonalds, stick to a simply formula, sell as much as you can, the food only satisfies you for a short moment and too much of it will impact the consumer in a negative way.
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Not that I don't have any constructive arguments, just that there's really no reason to stoop down to this guys level. Hes got his nose up in the air and sounds like he speaks with his eyes closed. West coast rap is what it is. It's quite simple.. If you don't like gangsta rap, don't listen. There are many sub-genres of hip-hop in all regions that revolve around positive vibes. It's like a gay priest who goes on a porn forum and says "how can you people like this? It's disgusting and exploits human sexuality"..again, it's simple; If you don't like it, stay away. If you don't like watching people get murdered and bitches getting slapped, don't watch gangster flicks. If you dont like hearing about it, don't listen to gangsta rap. But don't listen to it and then get all pretentious and faggoty about it, runnin to a rap forum to preach about how you're too sophisticated to listen to that. It just makes you sound like a judgemental douchebag pointin fingers like a bitchass snob and no one likes that.....
In other words, shut the fuck up.