West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: arubiano83 on December 19, 2014, 11:31:29 AM
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Excuse my bad english.. ;D
in a lot of snoop/dpg interviews u hear them talk about how they admire 2pacs work ethic, and how he taught them to make 4 or 5 songs a day instead of how they were doing it before. (With dre the perfectionist)
And now we have like 10000 terabytes of rushed and sloppy doggpound music.
that quantity over quality maybe worked for 2pac, but people like daz kurupt and snoop need to take their time (and need to stay of the drugs ;) ) to make classics.. 8)
Do u agree or do u think its bs?
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Excuse my bad english.. ;D
in a lot of snoop/dpg interviews u hear them talk about how they admire 2pacs work ethic, and how he taught them to make 4 or 5 songs a day instead of how they were doing it before. (With dre the perfectionist)
And now we have like 10000 terabytes of rushed and sloppy doggpound music.
that quantity over quality maybe worked for 2pac, but people like daz kurupt and snoop need to take their time (and need to stay of the drugs ;) ) to make classics.. 8)
Do u agree or do u think its bs?
dont blame 2pac they should blame themselves those guys couldn't write a record in 10 minutes they were jealous of pac
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Very good post. I believe your right about this with Kurupt. He isn't dropping heat like pac and the outlaws did. Pac worked hard and fast. Kurupt is sloppy and doesn't have the production team to work with anymore. Even with Terrance and Quik, Kurupt failed IMO. Last good album was Space Boogie but even on that he got sloppy.
Snoop is just bad at being in control of his albums. Not having someone like Dre, he makes some bad choices. A lot of bad choices.
Daz has just lost it. His flow and beats are this hardcore screaming style now which is wack. No more smooth shit. So So Gangsta showed Daz could do good again but he pissed off JD because he's an idiot.
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I've actually said this myself before. I do think that was the beginning of it, however drugs (Kurupt), ego (Daz), bullshit/drama (Death Row empire crubling) obviously had a lot to do with it aswell.
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I think drugs had a lot to do with this as well.
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good thread...some people just aren't built to make that much music. pac had a lot to say, and all that inner passion needed an outlet, hence the insane work ethic....kurupt and daz dont have nearly as much to say and are naturally more relaxed, so it'd be ideal that they perfected whatever they did put out sonically as opposed to just putting out a bunch of interchangeable tracks with little meaning. and thats not a knock on daz or kurupt, because they still got hits....it just takes more diggin to find them hits when they doin too much. 1 classic album in 5 years > 5 average albums in 5 years. i wouldnt blame pac, though....but his influence definitely sounds like a contributing factor.
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I think drugs had a lot to do with this as well.
drugs can bring out the best or worst in people....it's all a matter of how u use it.
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Good thread.
Without piling on the hate, I guess it shows dres influence on them vs Pac. It's ok if you're 2pac who was gifted on the mic as if handed to him by God (no Yuro). But Dre is a perfectionist and needs to spend hours/days/weeks on music. Nothing comes easy to him. He needs the team, the time and the tempo.
At the end of the day some artists need a constant overseeing, whether by manager, producer, exec producer etc. and crash and burn without it
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I Blame time, and contents..and drugs...2pac aint got nothing to do with that
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Without piling on the hate, I guess it shows dres influence on them vs Pac. It's ok if you're 2pac who was gifted on the mic as if handed to him by God (no Yuro). But Dre is a perfectionist and needs to spend hours/days/weeks on music. Nothing comes easy to him. He needs the team, the time and the tempo.
I don't think the Dre-Pac comparison is a fair one to make. With DPG and Pac, you're at least comparing rappers but Dre has a different responsibility than Pac when it comes to the music. Producing music has far more layers than rapping does. Pac might write and perform several songs in a day but the people producing them are taking more time to get them put together.
With the DPG thing and everyone is going to have their opinion but we're talking different styles. Pac is far more emotional and expressive. He wants to get in there and get that passion captured on the track so spending hours to get the vocals right doesn't behoove his technique but DPG (at least in the Death Row era) are more melodic. Snoop has a smoother delivery than Pac so a producer is going to want to play around with it a little more so the vocals sound crisp. With Pac, his music is driven by raw emotion. If he keeps hitting the same line over and over, he's going to lose the authenticity. If you listen to Snoop's verse on "Lil Ghetto Boy" for example. It sounds like music. The words, cadence, delivery, they need a certain rhythm to compliment the production. With Dre/Snoop, it's about finding the right sound. With Pac, it's the right emotion. Apples and oranges.
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Without piling on the hate, I guess it shows dres influence on them vs Pac. It's ok if you're 2pac who was gifted on the mic as if handed to him by God (no Yuro). But Dre is a perfectionist and needs to spend hours/days/weeks on music. Nothing comes easy to him. He needs the team, the time and the tempo.
I don't think the Dre-Pac comparison is a fair one to make. With DPG and Pac, you're at least comparing rappers but Dre has a different responsibility than Pac when it comes to the music. Producing music has far more layers than rapping does. Pac might write and perform several songs in a day but the people producing them are taking more time to get them put together.
YES...THANK YOU FOR REALIZING. RAPPING IS THE FUN PART.
With the DPG thing and everyone is going to have their opinion but we're talking different styles. Pac is far more emotional and expressive. He wants to get in there and get that passion captured on the track so spending hours to get the vocals right doesn't behoove his technique but DPG (at least in the Death Row era) are more melodic. Snoop has a smoother delivery than Pac so a producer is going to want to play around with it a little more so the vocals sound crisp. With Pac, his music is driven by raw emotion. If he keeps hitting the same line over and over, he's going to lose the authenticity. If you listen to Snoop's verse on "Lil Ghetto Boy" for example. It sounds like music. The words, cadence, delivery, they need a certain rhythm to compliment the production. With Dre/Snoop, it's about finding the right sound. With Pac, it's the right emotion. Apples and oranges.
GREAT BREAK DOWN...THAT WAS GOOD.
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Good thread.
Without piling on the hate, I guess it shows dres influence on them vs Pac. It's ok if you're 2pac who was gifted on the mic as if handed to him by God (no Yuro). But Dre is a perfectionist and needs to spend hours/days/weeks on music. Nothing comes easy to him. He needs the team, the time and the tempo.
At the end of the day some artists need a constant overseeing, whether by manager, producer, exec producer etc. and crash and burn without it
Spot on...
This was exactly the angle that I was going to go with. Like Sccit said DPG's style is just more laid back, chilling and shit like that. Under Dre, their minds were just on music and trying to meet Dre's high standards. 2pac was a star in his own right and he would've been a star no matter what label he was on or who he worked with, but DPG was really a family and they all needed each other and starting out they really needed Dre. Pac didn't need anybody. DPG's quality suffered when they started trying to be like Pac and do so many songs and then even trying to be business men and shit like that.
It's funny in interviews hearing Snoop and Kurupt giving credit to 2pac for teaching them work ethic, and making so many songs in one day. Making many songs a day doesn't mean shit. Any rapper could turn out dozens of songs a day, or even an album a day if they wanted to. What matters is the quality.
...This is the shit that pisses me off about artists like Royce da 5'9". The dude has like a billion songs, with great bars and verses scattered throughout, I can't even keep track of all the songs and albums he's done. Yet, he doesn't have even one classic album, and he has never even gone gold (unless you count the sales he got from Eminem on Bad Meetz Evil EP).
I would trade one classic Royce da 5'9" album for all the 10 or so sloppy, hit and miss albums he has done.
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at the end of the day DPG themselves are to blame...a lot of reasons already mentioned in this thread
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at the end of the day DPG themselves are to blame...a lot of reasons already mentioned in this thread
That said they get a disproportionate amount of hate on the board. I think the problem with the volume of stuff they've put out is their core fans have got saturated with their output over the years
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That said they get a disproportionate amount of hate on the board. I think the problem with the volume of stuff they've put out is their core fans have got saturated with their output over the years
I think context is also important. We're comparing one era of Tupac to the entire careers of DPG. Pac died in his prime so he didn't go through that all important career point where fans questioned if he was falling off.
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The truth is, most rappers should not be doing what Pac did. They don't have the natural talent and intelligence and passion that Pac had.
Even some of the mainstream rappers who say their work ethic was influenced by Pac tend to record hundreds of songs, but only release the cream of the crop. I know that Jeezy and Rick Ross do this, for example. And it shows: their albums are very consistent because they (and their A&Rs) take the time to separate the trash from the gold.
Pac was like a math genius who could solve problems in 5 minutes that other people need 5 hours to solve. You can try to imitate him, but your shit is going to be off.
Also, I don't think Pac's abilities were ever going to decline. To me, his career tells a story of constant improvement. He was getting better with time. Some people who love the more depressive songs on Me Against the World might disagree with me, but to me the Death Row music is far superior to what came before.
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That said they get a disproportionate amount of hate on the board. I think the problem with the volume of stuff they've put out is their core fans have got saturated with their output over the years
I think context is also important. We're comparing one era of Tupac to the entire careers of DPG. Pac died in his prime so he didn't go through that all important career point where fans questioned if he was falling off.
My problem with DPG (mostly Snoop tho) wouldn't be that they fell off over time, just the immediate drop off when they stopped working with Dr. Dre & Death Row.
But like I said I'm not out to bitch and moan. When u go through their catalogue you find there are enough gems, you just gotta disregard the rest.
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kurupt was still beastin after death row when he tried on streetz is a mutha
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kurupt was still beastin after death row when he tried on streetz is a mutha
But not so much on Kuruption or Space Boogie.
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kuruption coulda been a near classic if narrowed down to 1 disc and space boogie was a dope album
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kuruption coulda been a near classic if narrowed down to 1 disc and space boogie was a dope album
I used to love Boogie and hate most of Kuruption. My opinion changed Kuruption is grimey like fuck a bitch, deep in the thick of the mosh pit, battle rappin, midnight rider music for the whip. Space Boogie candy coated crass and Kurupt in the final breaths of his solo career
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Also, I don't think Pac's abilities were ever going to decline. To me, his career tells a story of constant improvement. He was getting better with time. Some people who love the more depressive songs on Me Against the World might disagree with me, but to me the Death Row music is far superior to what came before.
Everybody has a peak point. I think dying in one's prime allows a certain level of deniability to what is just natural progression. Death Row was 11 months of his life. He had a lot of events going down before that that became the catalysts for the great body of work he left behind.
I would also be one to disagree with "Me Against The World" being inferior to his Death Row product. I think "All Eyez" was Pac making an all-star album out of the pieces that Death Row gave him. He was handed hit records and to his credit, he did them all justice but MATW was a great album where "All Eyez" was a collection of mostly great records. His credit to his versality as a performer that he can make it all work but it's easily the least introspective of the albums he recorded in his life.
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kuruption coulda been a near classic if narrowed down to 1 disc and space boogie was a dope album
I used to love Boogie and hate most of Kuruption. My opinion changed Kuruption is grimey like fuck a bitch, deep in the thick of the mosh pit, battle rappin, midnight rider music for the whip. Space Boogie candy coated crass and Kurupt in the final breaths of his solo career
yeah, I think that the East Coast disc is severely underrated...some of my favorite all time Kurupt joints are on there
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Were the bonus tracks on all of the Kuruption albums? Or just the ones from Best Buy? I remember one of the tracks was We Can Freak It (Out) Remix with Noreaga.
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kuruption coulda been a near classic if narrowed down to 1 disc and space boogie was a dope album
I used to love Boogie and hate most of Kuruption. My opinion changed Kuruption is grimey like fuck a bitch, deep in the thick of the mosh pit, battle rappin, midnight rider music for the whip. Space Boogie candy coated crass and Kurupt in the final breaths of his solo career
yeah, I think that the East Coast disc is severely underrated...some of my favorite all time Kurupt joints are on there
Preach
Were the bonus tracks on all of the Kuruption albums? Or just the ones from Best Buy? I remember one of the tracks was We Can Freak It (Out) Remix with Noreaga.
I think on every copy. I saw a cassette Advance on eBay and it had everything but the bonus tracks. I think they were just added very late in the recording process
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Were the bonus tracks on all of the Kuruption albums? Or just the ones from Best Buy? I remember one of the tracks was We Can Freak It (Out) Remix with Noreaga.
every copy had the bonus tracks .. don't remember bout the we can freak it remix tho
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Were the bonus tracks on all of the Kuruption albums? Or just the ones from Best Buy? I remember one of the tracks was We Can Freak It (Out) Remix with Noreaga.
every copy had the bonus tracks .. don't remember bout the we can freak it remix tho
East coast remix. Diff beat and feats
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Wtf has pac got to with dpg's downfall. What a ridiculous topic.
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The fact is..after 2011 DPG members became even more lazy.
They put good shit from 2005-2011..(Kurupt,Daz,Snoop Solo's..DPG albums)
2011-2015 = Lazy
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kurupt was still beastin after death row when he tried on streetz is a mutha
that was the start of his "eat a bowl of shit bitch" era though...2001 era.
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The fact is..after 2011 DPG members became even more lazy.
They put good shit from 2005-2011..(Kurupt,Daz,Snoop Solo's..DPG albums)
2011-2015 = Lazy
Need to check Kurupt & Daz' albums from that time period again, but i doubt that especially kurupt came up with real good stuff during these years ;D