West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on April 03, 2015, 02:53:11 AM
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I made this poll simple because I am really interested in seeing the majority opinion here at Dubcc.
...Me personally, I want to support because it is an Aftermath/West Coast project, so I'm not going to diss. But personally the only Kendrick song I've ever bumped was that first one with Dre, "The Recipe". And even that joint I later heard originally had Damian Marley on it and was slated for Detox—which would have been way better.
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Sure, I like the track.
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It's dope, and the video actually adds to the feeling of the track..
At first I thought the track was gonna be a bit simplistic/repetitive, but when the beat evolves at 1:15, I'm sold. 8)
Would like to see a video for "The Blacker The Berry" next..
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At first listen, I was a bit confused, but once I heard the official release, at normal speed (because some people either speed up or slow down tracks on YouTube) I really, really like this track. It reminds me of some old Suga Free, with a hint of James Brown with a more modern twist. The only song on the album that radio ready now, all the others will need to have some sort of remix.
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At first listen, I was a bit confused, but once I heard the official release, at normal speed (because some people either speed up or slow down tracks on YouTube) I really, really like this track. It reminds me of some old Suga Free, with a hint of James Brown with a more modern twist. The only song on the album that radio ready now, all the others will need to have some sort of remix.
by the way MDogg..
off topic, but it's because of that little running play in your signature that the Chiefs weren't in the playoffs last year... damn you!
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At first listen, I was a bit confused, but once I heard the official release, at normal speed (because some people either speed up or slow down tracks on YouTube) I really, really like this track. It reminds me of some old Suga Free, with a hint of James Brown with a more modern twist. The only song on the album that radio ready now, all the others will need to have some sort of remix.
by the way MDogg..
off topic, but it's because of that little running play in your signature that the Chiefs weren't in the playoffs last year... damn you!
I know. That play was all of my hopes and dreams all in one. A new running back to finally take the place of McFadden, a victory against the Chiefs and a chance to knock them out he playoffs. It's all my hopes and dreams in one!
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Ya, the song is dope
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
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Great track. I hope he put suga free in the video because any suga free fan knows whats up on that track. But yeah its in my top 3 on that album for sure...
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Great track. I hope he put suga free in the video because any suga free fan knows whats up on that track. But yeah its in my top 3 on that album for sure...
videos already out
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Great track. I hope he put suga free in the video because any suga free fan knows whats up on that track. But yeah its in my top 3 on that album for sure...
videos already out
And it's a really good video. I liked the vibe of it. A remix video though with Suga Free, come on Kendrick, the west would accept you, at least those that don't accept you yet which there are a few.
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And it's a really good video. I liked the vibe of it. A remix video though with Suga Free, come on Kendrick, the west would accept you, at least those that don't accept you yet which there are a few.
[/quote
I will change my vote to "like" if he does a remix video with Suga Free
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i wonder who was the retard who disliked ::)
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i wonder who was the retard who disliked ::)
for real ^^
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Yeah, it's dope.
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I don't like the video but the track is great
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
I wouldn't go that far. Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often. If Afrika Bambaataa released Planet Rock today most people would that isn't really rap. And I'm sure there were fans of Afrika from the 70s and that heard Gin and Juice and said its not really rap, or hip hop.
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often.
have u ever heard funk? it's pretty much what u just described
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often.
have u ever heard funk? it's pretty much what u just described
I'm not denying the blatant genre pushing of the album. He's not following the rules of a modern hip hop CD, but its still closer to Hip Hop than anything else. I did describe Funk, but I also described a Afrika Bambaataa track, or I may as well have described Chuck Berry's Too Much Monkey Business, or Bob Dylan's Sub Homesick Blues.
Hip Hop and rap didn't just come out of nowhere as a lyrical style. What made it unique was its use of the turntable as an instrument. Not its use of rhyme paterns. Rap was actually very simple rhyme wise until the mid 80s when Rakim and the like started really pushing it. Dylan and Springsteen were writing much more complex rhymes inthe early 70s and late 60s than Rap was doing in the late 70s and early 80s, and I'll never call Dylan or Springsteen rap music (although Bruce did actually write and record part of a hip hop album in the early 90s, but when he heard himself rapping he decided it would never work and its remains unreleased and unheard). But he used one of the beats for Streets of Philadelphia and Missing from the Crossing Guard.
And in the spoken word soul world Gil Scot Heron and the Last Poets were doing stuff that was just as much rap as the early hip hop records.
But what made rap music and hip hop different as far as sound was the turntable and the actual sampling and mixing.
I could argue that the second hip hop producers stopped sampling and using records to mix and scratch, was the second they stopped truly being hip hop. Its like Rock and Roll. The sound was created by a powerful mix of the piano, the sax, and the electric guitar over an uptempo jazz beat. Then it became just pounding drums and heavy guitars and still wanted to be called Rock and Roll. It wasn't anymore.
So you could argue that based on that Pimp a Butterfly is not a Hip Hop album, but then you'd have to say that neither is Chronic.
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often.
have u ever heard funk? it's pretty much what u just described
I'm not denying the blatant genre pushing of the album. He's not following the rules of a modern hip hop CD, but its still closer to Hip Hop than anything else. I did describe Funk, but I also described a Afrika Bambaataa track, or I may as well have described Chuck Berry's Too Much Monkey Business, or Bob Dylan's Sub Homesick Blues.
Hip Hop and rap didn't just come out of nowhere as a lyrical style. What made it unique was its use of the turntable as an instrument. Not its use of rhyme paterns. Rap was actually very simple rhyme wise until the mid 80s when Rakim and the like started really pushing it. Dylan and Springsteen were writing much more complex rhymes inthe early 70s and late 60s than Rap was doing in the late 70s and early 80s, and I'll never call Dylan or Springsteen rap music (although Bruce did actually write and record part of a hip hop album in the early 90s, but when he heard himself rapping he decided it would never work and its remains unreleased and unheard). But he used one of the beats for Streets of Philadelphia and Missing from the Crossing Guard.
And in the spoken word soul world Gil Scot Heron and the Last Poets were doing stuff that was just as much rap as the early hip hop records.
But what made rap music and hip hop different as far as sound was the turntable and the actual sampling and mixing.
I could argue that the second hip hop producers stopped sampling and using records to mix and scratch, was the second they stopped truly being hip hop. Its like Rock and Roll. The sound was created by a powerful mix of the piano, the sax, and the electric guitar over an uptempo jazz beat. Then it became just pounding drums and heavy guitars and still wanted to be called Rock and Roll. It wasn't anymore.
So you could argue that based on that Pimp a Butterfly is not a Hip Hop album, but then you'd have to say that neither is Chronic.
i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often.
have u ever heard funk? it's pretty much what u just described
I'm not denying the blatant genre pushing of the album. He's not following the rules of a modern hip hop CD, but its still closer to Hip Hop than anything else. I did describe Funk, but I also described a Afrika Bambaataa track, or I may as well have described Chuck Berry's Too Much Monkey Business, or Bob Dylan's Sub Homesick Blues.
Hip Hop and rap didn't just come out of nowhere as a lyrical style. What made it unique was its use of the turntable as an instrument. Not its use of rhyme paterns. Rap was actually very simple rhyme wise until the mid 80s when Rakim and the like started really pushing it. Dylan and Springsteen were writing much more complex rhymes inthe early 70s and late 60s than Rap was doing in the late 70s and early 80s, and I'll never call Dylan or Springsteen rap music (although Bruce did actually write and record part of a hip hop album in the early 90s, but when he heard himself rapping he decided it would never work and its remains unreleased and unheard). But he used one of the beats for Streets of Philadelphia and Missing from the Crossing Guard.
And in the spoken word soul world Gil Scot Heron and the Last Poets were doing stuff that was just as much rap as the early hip hop records.
But what made rap music and hip hop different as far as sound was the turntable and the actual sampling and mixing.
I could argue that the second hip hop producers stopped sampling and using records to mix and scratch, was the second they stopped truly being hip hop. Its like Rock and Roll. The sound was created by a powerful mix of the piano, the sax, and the electric guitar over an uptempo jazz beat. Then it became just pounding drums and heavy guitars and still wanted to be called Rock and Roll. It wasn't anymore.
So you could argue that based on that Pimp a Butterfly is not a Hip Hop album, but then you'd have to say that neither is Chronic.
i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
i don't think that he "tryna" do something different, but that he just do what he wanna do...
you heard the whole album already? it got as much jazz influences as it got funk influences..so the neo-funk term don't really fit. i don't think that it could be categorized in any particular genre...it's hiphop influenced by a few other genres imo.
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it's pretty dope, but it's not really rap.....more like neo-funk
Its not traditional 16 bar verses of rapping, but it is still a hip hop beat and he is rapping. He's just pausing more often.
have u ever heard funk? it's pretty much what u just described
I'm not denying the blatant genre pushing of the album. He's not following the rules of a modern hip hop CD, but its still closer to Hip Hop than anything else. I did describe Funk, but I also described a Afrika Bambaataa track, or I may as well have described Chuck Berry's Too Much Monkey Business, or Bob Dylan's Sub Homesick Blues.
Hip Hop and rap didn't just come out of nowhere as a lyrical style. What made it unique was its use of the turntable as an instrument. Not its use of rhyme paterns. Rap was actually very simple rhyme wise until the mid 80s when Rakim and the like started really pushing it. Dylan and Springsteen were writing much more complex rhymes inthe early 70s and late 60s than Rap was doing in the late 70s and early 80s, and I'll never call Dylan or Springsteen rap music (although Bruce did actually write and record part of a hip hop album in the early 90s, but when he heard himself rapping he decided it would never work and its remains unreleased and unheard). But he used one of the beats for Streets of Philadelphia and Missing from the Crossing Guard.
And in the spoken word soul world Gil Scot Heron and the Last Poets were doing stuff that was just as much rap as the early hip hop records.
But what made rap music and hip hop different as far as sound was the turntable and the actual sampling and mixing.
I could argue that the second hip hop producers stopped sampling and using records to mix and scratch, was the second they stopped truly being hip hop. Its like Rock and Roll. The sound was created by a powerful mix of the piano, the sax, and the electric guitar over an uptempo jazz beat. Then it became just pounding drums and heavy guitars and still wanted to be called Rock and Roll. It wasn't anymore.
So you could argue that based on that Pimp a Butterfly is not a Hip Hop album, but then you'd have to say that neither is Chronic.
i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
i don't think that he "tryna" do something different, but that he just do what he wanna do...
you heard the whole album already? it got as much jazz influences as it got funk influences..so the neo-funk term don't really fit. i don't think that it could be categorized in any particular genre...it's hiphop influenced by a few other genres imo.
naah, im jus talkin bout the song in question, not the whole album.
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it's a garbage song
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
again, i disagree.....it's harder to recreate a sound than it is to sample it. and thats from experience.
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
again, i disagree.....it's harder to recreate a sound than it is to sample it. and thats from experience.
If you're talking about learning to play instruments and then replaying the music in the right key at the right temp, then yes you're right. If you just go up up to a group of serious professional musicians and play them Woman to Woman by Joe Cocker and then tell them to replay the main riff and they do it, then you're wrong.
Dre's not the one re playing the tracks.
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
again, i disagree.....it's harder to recreate a sound than it is to sample it. and thats from experience.
If you're talking about learning to play instruments and then replaying the music in the right key at the right temp, then yes you're right. If you just go up up to a group of serious professional musicians and play them Woman to Woman by Joe Cocker and then tell them to replay the main riff and they do it, then you're wrong.
Dre's not the one re playing the tracks.
it's much harder to compose on dre's level than U think
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
again, i disagree.....it's harder to recreate a sound than it is to sample it. and thats from experience.
If you're talking about learning to play instruments and then replaying the music in the right key at the right temp, then yes you're right. If you just go up up to a group of serious professional musicians and play them Woman to Woman by Joe Cocker and then tell them to replay the main riff and they do it, then you're wrong.
Dre's not the one re playing the tracks.
it's much harder to compose on dre's level than U think
Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
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Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.
But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor. Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me". And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.
For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter. So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.
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Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.
But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor. Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me". And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.
For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter. So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.
I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.
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I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.
Not a bad analogy, but honestly who was the Jordan from a production standpoint in the NWA days? Surely you don't think DJ Yella was Michael Jordan? And over at Death Row, who was the Kobe, from a production standpoint? Then who was the Michael Jordan at Aftermath who took Eminem from the underground sound of "Just Don't Give A Fuck" to overnight platinum superstar with "My Name Is"?
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i duno bout all that....the chronic is what rap evolved into. this is more like him blatantly tryna do somethin different just to be different. we had neo-soul in the early 2000s...and now the neo-funk genre is finally here.
Dre was using live bands to cover old songs and then just loop the part he liked. That akes less talent than using a turn table to find the right parts of the records at the right tempo and then loop, mix, and scratch. What Dre was doing musically was not evolution. Not that Dre was the inventor of this new style. It was simply easier to bring in musicians than it was to get the master tapes of the old songs so the tracks wouldn't contain all the other parts of the music the rap producer didn't want.
But it took away from the creativity of the hip hop DJ producer, to find the special parts of obscure records, change the tempos and tones. What Havoc did with Herbie Hancock for Shook Ones was genius. Wht Dre did with Leon Heywood for G Thang was no better than what Puff was doing in the mid 90s.
You could argue what Primo did in the 90s was the evolution of Hip Hop, but not Dre. Dre is a great producer in the sense that he knows how to string together elements and guide them for the purpose of a successful record. Premier was a great producer in the sense that he knew how to create new sounds using old sounds. Dre made hits using unknown songs to the point where the his audience never knew it wasn't original. Hip Hop at its finest is using old songs to the point where it becomes and sounds completely original.
again, i disagree.....it's harder to recreate a sound than it is to sample it. and thats from experience.
If you're talking about learning to play instruments and then replaying the music in the right key at the right temp, then yes you're right. If you just go up up to a group of serious professional musicians and play them Woman to Woman by Joe Cocker and then tell them to replay the main riff and they do it, then you're wrong.
Dre's not the one re playing the tracks.
it's much harder to compose on dre's level than U think
Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
dre is a composer...to compose is to "write or create a work of art" and thats exactly what dre does. people bring pieces to dre and he puts them all together and creates an incredible composition out of it. what he does is ingenious and unmatched by any other producer in hip-hop history. he's lightyears above your average producer who gets behind a drum machine and comes up with a quick beat that sounds dope. he is the director, bottom line...and what ur saying about locking dre in a room is borderline retarded. lock stanley kubrick in a room with a camera, a movie set, and some film and he will come out with nothing.....but with the proper pieces, he will come out with some greatness ala dr. mufuckin dre.
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Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.
But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor. Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me". And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.
For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter. So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.
because dre is dre....what he does is beyond comprehension. people like shallow hear shit like "oh, dre doesnt even come up with the beats", and in their simple mind, they see that as a lack of talent. when in reality, coming up with the beat is the simple part. bringing that beat to life and squeezin it for every last drop of potential is actually the taxing part....and no one else can do it like dre. bottom line.
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Its not one of my favorites
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I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.
Not a bad analogy, but honestly who was the Jordan from a production standpoint in the NWA days? Surely you don't think DJ Yella was Michael Jordan? And over at Death Row, who was the Kobe, from a production standpoint? Then who was the Michael Jordan at Aftermath who took Eminem from the underground sound of "Just Don't Give A Fuck" to overnight platinum superstar with "My Name Is"?
Jordan was Snoop and Kobe was Eminem. I didn't imply the producer is the basketball player, thats the rapper. The producer is the producer, and that's Dre. In all I was slightly off because Dre is a lot like a Movie Director, the ones that don't write the script or set up the shots, but rather the ones that adjust the words and choose the right shots.
I give Dre a lot of credit, like I do Phil Jackson. The problem is that he gets Bill Russell like credit when he shouldn't.
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Stanley Kubrick in his prime was charge of every aspect of his films. He wrote the words, set up the shots, edited the film. To say he wouldn't come out of a locked room with genius is absurd. He has all the skills to create a film from scratch and the mind to think of something genius, even in an empty room.
Dre doesn't have the musical talent to write notes or play those notes at a high level. I'm sorry you don't want to admit that.
And we're talking music so I'm using the musical definition of compose not the webster definition. I know what compose can also mean in other walks of life, but it doesn't apply to music. When a producer takes an entire arrangement as its recorded and gets a studio band to cover it, I don't give him credit. Just like I don't give credit to Kanye when he takes full recorded melodies and loops them.
Taking a small riff here, and mixing it with another melody from somehwhere, or creating a harmony from two different peices is fantastic and worth the label composer. But what Dre did for the beat of Cali Love or G Thang is nothing special.
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To Pimp A Butterfly is a good album . BEST SONGS
1. YOU AINT GOTTA LIE
2. KING KUNTA
3. HOOD POLITICS
4. HOW MUCH A DOLLAR COST
5. COMPLEXION
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King Kunta has a dj type of beat and production to it . I think the beat is dope and the song is dope . King Kunta was a old slave and it's a creative concept song with a funky beat . 8) 8)
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King Kunta has a dj type of beat and production to it . I think the beat is dope and the song is dope . King Kunta was a old slave and it's a creative concept song with a funky beat . 8) 8)
no. Kunta Kinte was an old slave. Get his name right.
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To Pimp A Butterfly is a good album . BEST SONGS
1. YOU AINT GOTTA LIE
2. KING KUNTA
3. HOOD POLITICS
4. HOW MUCH A DOLLAR COST
5. COMPLEXION
I agree...dope track and dope album
much too early to call it classic or anything though
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Stanley Kubrick in his prime was charge of every aspect of his films. He wrote the words, set up the shots, edited the film. To say he wouldn't come out of a locked room with genius is absurd. He has all the skills to create a film from scratch and the mind to think of something genius, even in an empty room.
Dre doesn't have the musical talent to write notes or play those notes at a high level. I'm sorry you don't want to admit that.
And we're talking music so I'm using the musical definition of compose not the webster definition. I know what compose can also mean in other walks of life, but it doesn't apply to music. When a producer takes an entire arrangement as its recorded and gets a studio band to cover it, I don't give him credit. Just like I don't give credit to Kanye when he takes full recorded melodies and loops them.
Taking a small riff here, and mixing it with another melody from somehwhere, or creating a harmony from two different peices is fantastic and worth the label composer. But what Dre did for the beat of Cali Love or G Thang is nothing special.
he has the ear, which is the most important aspect...youre completely downplaying dre's genius, but thats okay. you're not alone.
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he is the director, bottom line...and what ur saying about locking dre in a room is borderline retarded. lock stanley kubrick in a room with a camera, a movie set, and some film and he will come out with nothing.....
Shit... human beings can't even make a pencil by themselves in a room. But that's another discussion...
...Anyway, you guys are saying Dre just takes bits and pieces from other people and composes but he is also telling others what sound to make and gets exactly what he wants either by doing it himself or having someone else do it. Without knowing the technical aspect of producing I can just use some of Dre's quotes as evidence... Dre said in one interview the difference between him and other producers is that sound that is in his head, he can get that on record. While other producers can't get the sound they really want so they settle for what they can get.
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Jordan was Snoop and Kobe was Eminem. I didn't imply the producer is the basketball player, thats the rapper. The producer is the producer, and that's Dre. In all I was slightly off because Dre is a lot like a Movie Director, the ones that don't write the script or set up the shots, but rather the ones that adjust the words and choose the right shots.
I give Dre a lot of credit, like I do Phil Jackson. The problem is that he gets Bill Russell like credit when he shouldn't.
I don't know how other people feel but I think even working without Snoop (Jordan) and Eminem (Kobe) that Dre's shit is way more bomb than any other producer. In fact, his own solo joints are more bomb than any other producer. "Keep They Heads Wringing" and "Let Me Ride" must be like Phil is coaching and dunking on fools.
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Jordan was Snoop and Kobe was Eminem. I didn't imply the producer is the basketball player, thats the rapper. The producer is the producer, and that's Dre. In all I was slightly off because Dre is a lot like a Movie Director, the ones that don't write the script or set up the shots, but rather the ones that adjust the words and choose the right shots.
I give Dre a lot of credit, like I do Phil Jackson. The problem is that he gets Bill Russell like credit when he shouldn't.
I don't know how other people feel but I think even working without Snoop (Jordan) and Eminem (Kobe) that Dre's shit is way more bomb than any other producer. In fact, his own solo joints are more bomb than any other producer. "Keep They Heads Wringing" and "Let Me Ride" must be like Phil is coaching and dunking on fools.
THE MAIN SIMILARITY BETWEEN PHIL JACKSON AND DR. DRE IS THAT THEY'RE BOTH GENIUSES
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Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.
But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor. Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me". And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.
For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter. So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.
I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.
Your problem with this is Dre was winning 'chips with Eazy E and 50 Cent on the mic. Dr. Dre is as talented a producer as there is. All these people claiming, I found this sample for Dre, I played this string for Dre, ain't none of them make a beat like Dre. Some of the most celebrated people in music are the conductors, and conductors don't play the music, they can play the music, but they don't play the music on shows. Dre does play live drums, and he had live drums in his production since NWA. He tells the musicians he works with the sound he wants when he's making the beat, and they play it for him. If you are trying to give credit to everyone else for Dr. Dre's success, then why ain't Scott Storch, Daz, DJ Yella, and Mel Man have more hits and great beats compared to Dr. Dre. For all we know, Dr. Dre may only be a great mixer, but that mixing is what makes the songs song better than anyone else out there. So you can try to talk about Dre all you want, the dude has the best ear for music in hip-hop, and will go down as the number 1 producer in hip-hop history.
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Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.
He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.
I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.
But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor. Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me". And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.
For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter. So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.
I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.
Your problem with this is Dre was winning 'chips with Eazy E and 50 Cent on the mic. Dr. Dre is as talented a producer as there is. All these people claiming, I found this sample for Dre, I played this string for Dre, ain't none of them make a beat like Dre. Some of the most celebrated people in music are the conductors, and conductors don't play the music, they can play the music, but they don't play the music on shows. Dre does play live drums, and he had live drums in his production since NWA. He tells the musicians he works with the sound he wants when he's making the beat, and they play it for him. If you are trying to give credit to everyone else for Dr. Dre's success, then why ain't Scott Storch, Daz, DJ Yella, and Mel Man have more hits and great beats compared to Dr. Dre. For all we know, Dr. Dre may only be a great mixer, but that mixing is what makes the songs song better than anyone else out there. So you can try to talk about Dre all you want, the dude has the best ear for music in hip-hop, and will go down as the number 1 producer in hip-hop history.
I don't disagree with anything you said above, and never argued against any of it.
He has a great ear for hit rap songs and how to go about making them. I've historically said he makes his rapper rap better and absolutely believe that Doggfather ends up as good or better than Doggiestyle with Dre at the helm.
But none of that changes my claim; Great music producer and great music composer are two different things. To build on your conductor analogy; I'm not huge fan of classical to know who the great conductors of all time are, but I know for a fact that none of the current ones are anywhere near as famous or as revered as the composers they conduct. None of them get mentioned alongside Mozart and Beethoven. The guys that write the music and develop it into a sound get the most reverence.
Of course even if Dre had originally conceived all that music, I still don't think enough of it to revere him as much as you guys do. Because I don't think enough of the originals. I like I wanna Do something Freaky To You, and I like Woman to Woman, but I don't say "oh my God, what genius music", and I especially don't loop a few seconds of those melodies over and over again.
If I want to be inspired musically I'll throw on Hendrix, or early Johnny Otis Show, some Dire Straits, Herbie Hancock, or Miles Davis. Music that features very top of the line musicians, and more than a handful of notes. I can never sit and listen to bare instrumentals of rap songs for hours on end. Where as I can play the Jungleland Sax solo by Clarence Clemons 15 times in a row and not get sick of it. To be clear, I can't listen to instrumentals of the vast majority of Rock songs either.
For rock and hip hop the vocals and lyrics are more important than the backing track, for the most part. There are exceptions like Jerry Lee Lewis where the piano is probably more important than the singing, and Hendrix where the guitar is definitely more important than the singing.
Springsteen is my favorite by far and there is no way I can listen to just the backing tracks of his songs, thus I don't list Bruce as a "musical" genius, but rather a "song writing and producing" genius. The music is solid on its own, but combined with the lyrics and the vocal melody is what makes it really special. I'd say the same for Prince or Stevie Wonder.
And Dre isn't supposed to be all that, I know. We are gauging his production skills, but too many rap fans confuse that with his composing skills. As a producer I think Dre would make the most out of the worst sample, but that doesn't mean I'll listen to Cal Love and say "wow, only Dre could have thought to have the horns come in like that with the piano". Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.
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Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.
and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.
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Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.
and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.
Our opinions of Kanye are exactly the same. We can agree on that. To call California Love a masterpiece to me is like calling the film the video is based on a Masterpiece. No Mad Max film is a masterpiece and neither is Cali Love. Its a banger, but no way could I think of it as a masterpiece. NY State of Mind is a masterpiece. Dear Mama. Juice (Know The Ledge). To put a Dre track in there; Straight Outta Compton (the song) is a masterpiece.
I'd list songs from other genres but I don't think you listen to any music that isn't a heavy rap beat about killing people and having sex with impressionable young women. I'm going out on a limb here with an assumption, but you probably think Scarface and Casino are greater films than Casablanca and Citizen Kane.
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Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.
and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.
Our opinions of Kanye are exactly the same. We can agree on that. To call California Love a masterpiece to me is like calling the film the video is based on a Masterpiece. No Mad Max film is a masterpiece and neither is Cali Love. Its a banger, but no way could I think of it as a masterpiece. NY State of Mind is a masterpiece. Dear Mama. Juice (Know The Ledge). To put a Dre track in there; Straight Outta Compton (the song) is a masterpiece.
I'd list songs from other genres but I don't think you listen to any music that isn't a heavy rap beat about killing people and having sex with impressionable young women. I'm going out on a limb here with an assumption, but you probably think Scarface and Casino are greater films than Casablanca and Citizen Kane.
cali love is as good or better than any of those songs......but go ahead and think what u like. because like track 8 off violence of tha lambz said, opinions are like assholes, everybody got um.
and ur assumptions explain to me why u think the way u do....because 1.)i grew up on all different types of music and 2.)i dont believe that....LOL
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I grew up on Greek Folk Music. I got into Gangsta Rap because I was a teenager with a lot of black friends and I thought it was cool to be a thug. I'm 32 years old now. I think thugs are stupid and I mainly listen to Greeks folk music and a Black American Folk music. And a lot of Springsteen. Not much else. But I like the new Kendrick for some reason.
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I grew up on Greek Folk Music. I got into Gangsta Rap because I was a teenager with a lot of black friends and I thought it was cool to be a thug. I'm 32 years old now. I think thugs are stupid and I mainly listen to Greeks folk music and a Black American Folk music. And a lot of Springsteen. Not much else. But I like the new Kendrick for some reason.
I know why I really like this album, why more than any album in the last 10 years. The music sounds well thought out and intentional. I didn't hear a hip-hop album when I first listened to this, and that threw me off at first. It's funky, but not like sampled old school Warren G funk that sampled old 70's funk and soul and twist it. Instead it was real instruments, and it was original works of music that was made to sound like hip-hop. I was hearing an interview, and Kendrick said he had the same dudes in the studio everyday, Terrance Martin, all them producers, making tracks and making music. He said he had George Clinton there almost everyday just for conversation... LOL. Like George Clinton was featured on one track, but dude was there everyday just for someone for Kendrick to talk to and offer advice. LOL... (Why I think he's Love Dragon)
But dude was not putting together a hip-hop record, dude was putting together real, tangible music.
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I know why I really like this album, why more than any album in the last 10 years. The music sounds well thought out and intentional. I didn't hear a hip-hop album when I first listened to this, and that threw me off at first. It's funky, but not like sampled old school Warren G funk that sampled old 70's funk and soul and twist it. Instead it was real instruments, and it was original works of music that was made to sound like hip-hop. I was hearing an interview, and Kendrick said he had the same dudes in the studio everyday, Terrance Martin, all them producers, making tracks and making music. He said he had George Clinton there almost everyday just for conversation... LOL. Like George Clinton was featured on one track, but dude was there everyday just for someone for Kendrick to talk to and offer advice. LOL... (Why I think he's Love Dragon)
But dude was not putting together a hip-hop record, dude was putting together real, tangible music.
^^Best reasoning I've seen so far for giving Kendrick another chance
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Sounds good. I didn't see the poll. Or is it just a comment poll?