West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Sccit on May 04, 2010, 10:49:36 AM
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
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"Why LeBron Will NEVER Be Kobe"
I was expecting this to have something to so with his ability to distribute the basketball, fill up the entire stat sheet (not just the points section), respect amongst teammates..the league..and the fans, not taking fag pictures in all white veils and pilgrim suits...
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LOL@Kobe not having the ability to distribute or fill up the stat sheet...and LMAO@not having respect amongst teammates. If you really think LeBron is respected as a competitor above the likes of Kobe, then you really need to check your resources. And please don't bring up the fag factor when LeBron is a known diva who dances around the court like a homo before every game. But back to the topic, LeBron doesn't have the heart nor the ability to elevate his game when it matters most. He's an athletic beast who can score almost at will with his strong physique, but he doesn't have the killer instinct and he hasn't shown me that he's willing to develop it.. he rather dance around the court like a fruitcake. As for his game, he's gunna subside quicker than most with the way he plays and the fact that he depends on his body and strength more than he depends on his skill tells me he needs to win NOW...I'd love to say I told you so...and by the looks of it, I will.
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Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.
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Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.
this thread is about basketball...keep your homosexuality in the gspot, where it belongs.
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
Co-sign
Magic Johnson said Lebron is the best in the game and that he's been "passed the torch" from former greats. The rest of the media seems to agree. But I don't understand why all that talk is starting now, when he still hasn't won a ring. When Kobe is just coming off his 4th Championship, Kobe is still young enough, and from the looks of it the Lakers are playing better right now than the Cavs and more likely to win.
Like Sccit said, I won't be surprised at all if Cleveland doesn't get past the second round, but if Lebron does make it to the Finals then you are really going to see how superior Kobe and the Lakers are to Lebron and the Cavs. It's not their time yet, until Kobe says it is their time. Kobe has around 3 years or so left to dominate the league, and by that time Durant may be the better than Lebron, cause like Jordan says Lebron's power game is harder to sustain.
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Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.
this thread is about basketball...keep your homosexuality in the gspot, where it belongs.
Basketball is a thinly veiled cover up for you wanting to suck kobes dick while hes dressed in an all white pilgrim outfit.
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
Co-sign
Magic Johnson said Lebron is the best in the game and that he's been "passed the torch" from former greats. The rest of the media seems to agree. But I don't understand why all that talk is starting now, when he still hasn't won a ring. When Kobe is just coming off his 4th Championship, Kobe is still young enough, and from the looks of it the Lakers are playing better right now than the Cavs and more likely to win.
Like Sccit said, I won't be surprised at all if Cleveland doesn't get past the second round, but if Lebron does make it to the Finals then you are really going to see how superior Kobe and the Lakers are to Lebron and the Cavs. It's not their time yet, until Kobe says it is their time. Kobe has around 3 years or so left to dominate the league, and by that time Durant may be the better than Lebron, cause like Jordan says Lebron's power game is harder to sustain.
You are right about ONE thing. The Lakers have a better supporting cast for Kobe then LeBron has. I dont think LeBron has passed Kobe careerwise, of course. But we are talking right now...LeBron is the better player. Most people (other then Kobe fans) agree. You have to remember, Jordan dominated the game with his skill...but also his athletisism. Once he got older and his athletisism wasnt what it was...he changed his game and became such a deadly shooter, with the fadeaway becoming one of the most deadly offensive weapons ever. LeBron isnt even halfway through his career and still can dominate on his athletisism. There is no reason his game wont develop more from this point on. Dont you think Kobe's game developed further during the second half of his career?
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shut the fuck up you stupid kike
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If Cleveland wins the championship, this thread will end up pretty funny lol
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
Co-sign
Magic Johnson said Lebron is the best in the game and that he's been "passed the torch" from former greats. The rest of the media seems to agree. But I don't understand why all that talk is starting now, when he still hasn't won a ring. When Kobe is just coming off his 4th Championship, Kobe is still young enough, and from the looks of it the Lakers are playing better right now than the Cavs and more likely to win.
Like Sccit said, I won't be surprised at all if Cleveland doesn't get past the second round, but if Lebron does make it to the Finals then you are really going to see how superior Kobe and the Lakers are to Lebron and the Cavs. It's not their time yet, until Kobe says it is their time. Kobe has around 3 years or so left to dominate the league, and by that time Durant may be the better than Lebron, cause like Jordan says Lebron's power game is harder to sustain.
You are right about ONE thing. The Lakers have a better supporting cast for Kobe then LeBron has. I dont think LeBron has passed Kobe careerwise, of course. But we are talking right now...LeBron is the better player. Most people (other then Kobe fans) agree. You have to remember, Jordan dominated the game with his skill...but also his athletisism. Once he got older and his athletisism wasnt what it was...he changed his game and became such a deadly shooter, with the fadeaway becoming one of the most deadly offensive weapons ever. LeBron isnt even halfway through his career and still can dominate on his athletisism. There is no reason his game wont develop more from this point on. Dont you think Kobe's game developed further during the second half of his career?
If LeBron wins a championship over Kobe this year, THEN he is the better player. Cleveland has just as good a supporting cast as the Lakers, and a MUCH deeper bench. LeBron has exerted more of himself during the regular season than Kobe, but Kobe knows the game and he picks and chooses when to attack, and it's usually at the right moment...Kobe could average 40 points on the year if he wanted to, but that is not what wins championships. Kobe exerts himself at the right moments and maximizes his game when it counts most...I dunno if that's even something you can learn...more like a natural knack...but what I do know is that LeBron will not be mentioned amongst the Magics, Birds, or Jordans until he gets there. Kobe already got there, has BEEN there, and when he wins the title again this year, he will still be sitting on top...PeACe
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
Co-sign
Magic Johnson said Lebron is the best in the game and that he's been "passed the torch" from former greats. The rest of the media seems to agree. But I don't understand why all that talk is starting now, when he still hasn't won a ring. When Kobe is just coming off his 4th Championship, Kobe is still young enough, and from the looks of it the Lakers are playing better right now than the Cavs and more likely to win.
Like Sccit said, I won't be surprised at all if Cleveland doesn't get past the second round, but if Lebron does make it to the Finals then you are really going to see how superior Kobe and the Lakers are to Lebron and the Cavs. It's not their time yet, until Kobe says it is their time. Kobe has around 3 years or so left to dominate the league, and by that time Durant may be the better than Lebron, cause like Jordan says Lebron's power game is harder to sustain.
You are right about ONE thing. The Lakers have a better supporting cast for Kobe then LeBron has. I dont think LeBron has passed Kobe careerwise, of course. But we are talking right now...LeBron is the better player. Most people (other then Kobe fans) agree. You have to remember, Jordan dominated the game with his skill...but also his athletisism. Once he got older and his athletisism wasnt what it was...he changed his game and became such a deadly shooter, with the fadeaway becoming one of the most deadly offensive weapons ever. LeBron isnt even halfway through his career and still can dominate on his athletisism. There is no reason his game wont develop more from this point on. Dont you think Kobe's game developed further during the second half of his career?
If LeBron wins a championship over Kobe this year, THEN he is the better player.
LOL when Shaq left the Lakers and Kobe couldnt win a championship....you hated that argument. Now Kobe's team wins a title last year, and you wanna use that argument lol.
I personally dont think the Cavs will win the title this year. I think everybody is sleeping on the Magic still for whatever reason. And they will be a TOUGH out for the Cavs. Not to mention, the Cavs will be involved in a kock down drag out series with the Celtics...where the Magic (IMO) will have a relatively easy time with the Hawks.
BUT...you said it, If LeBron wins the title this year...he is better then Kobe. lol As far as most knowledgeable NBA guys, he already is better. His team just hasnt been yet. But, according to you...if LeBron wins this year...he is better then Kobe.
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LeBron just doesn't have it...the killer instinct he was questioned for throughout his career. The clutch-factor...The ability to step it up when it most counts. LeBron has always proven himself to be a regular season success story who has yet to show he can perform at such levels when it matters most. This is what all the greatest players of all time had..Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Jordan...KOBE. The list goes on and on. LeBron simply aint got it. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he NEVER gets it and ends his career ringless. Not saying he will never win a championship, but with the way he's carried himself throughout his career, it would in no way surprise me if he didn't.
Cleveland has been the favorite to win all season long, LeBron has an amazing cast and unquestionably the deepest team in the league. After almost losing game 1, they come back and dont even show up in game 2, going down by 25 points in the opening half, wtf? Cavs didn't even put up a fight and all of a sudden, I'm doubting they'll even get out the 2nd round. How do you give up home court advantage, which you've worked your ass off all season long for, with such ease, without even putting up a fight? Not saying LeBron isn't a special talent, but something that is very hard to develop if you don't have it in you is HEART...the heart of a champion. Will he ever get there? Will he end his career as one of the all-time GOATs or will he go down as just another great player who never took it to the next level (ala Dominique Wilkins)?......Only time will tell, but things aint lookin too good for Cleveland. :-X
Co-sign
Magic Johnson said Lebron is the best in the game and that he's been "passed the torch" from former greats. The rest of the media seems to agree. But I don't understand why all that talk is starting now, when he still hasn't won a ring. When Kobe is just coming off his 4th Championship, Kobe is still young enough, and from the looks of it the Lakers are playing better right now than the Cavs and more likely to win.
Like Sccit said, I won't be surprised at all if Cleveland doesn't get past the second round, but if Lebron does make it to the Finals then you are really going to see how superior Kobe and the Lakers are to Lebron and the Cavs. It's not their time yet, until Kobe says it is their time. Kobe has around 3 years or so left to dominate the league, and by that time Durant may be the better than Lebron, cause like Jordan says Lebron's power game is harder to sustain.
You are right about ONE thing. The Lakers have a better supporting cast for Kobe then LeBron has. I dont think LeBron has passed Kobe careerwise, of course. But we are talking right now...LeBron is the better player. Most people (other then Kobe fans) agree. You have to remember, Jordan dominated the game with his skill...but also his athletisism. Once he got older and his athletisism wasnt what it was...he changed his game and became such a deadly shooter, with the fadeaway becoming one of the most deadly offensive weapons ever. LeBron isnt even halfway through his career and still can dominate on his athletisism. There is no reason his game wont develop more from this point on. Dont you think Kobe's game developed further during the second half of his career?
If LeBron wins a championship over Kobe this year, THEN he is the better player.
LOL when Shaq left the Lakers and Kobe couldnt win a championship....you hated that argument. Now Kobe's team wins a title last year, and you wanna use that argument lol.
I personally dont think the Cavs will win the title this year. I think everybody is sleeping on the Magic still for whatever reason. And they will be a TOUGH out for the Cavs. Not to mention, the Cavs will be involved in a kock down drag out series with the Celtics...where the Magic (IMO) will have a relatively easy time with the Hawks.
BUT...you said it, If LeBron wins the title this year...he is better then Kobe. lol As far as most knowledgeable NBA guys, he already is better. His team just hasnt been yet. But, according to you...if LeBron wins this year...he is better then Kobe.
LMAO@comparing the teams Kobe had after Shaq departed to the current Cavs. You being serious? Our team had a starting line-up of:
PG Smush Parker (no longer in the NBA)
SG Kobe Bryant (only source of true offense on the team)
SF Luke Walton (NBDL level talent, doesn't even have a spot in our current rotation)
PF Lamar Odom (currently coming off the bench as a 6th man)
C Kwame Brown (bust who was, at times, made to look like a legit center by Kobe)
so you comparing that team (which actually overachieved and took the Suns to 7 games) to the current Cavs team (which is built to win it all NOW) is laughable. If LeBron can lead this team to a championship and wills them to victory with his heart and proves that he's not all talent with no delivery, my perspective on him will change and I will not feel uncomfortable putting him in the same sentence as the great players of our era...but it hasn't happened yet and the people who say LeBron is better than Kobe now are merely fans who are impressed by stats and highlights as opposed to results. Kobe is the guy you want leading your team and willing them to victory, Kobe is the guy you wanna depend on when a game actually matters, and Kobe is the guy you wanna give the ball to when its all on the line...LeBron has not reached that status. Again, he's a great talent, but he's 1 step away from being amongst the greatests...PeACe
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LeBron has exerted more of himself during the regular season than Kobe, but Kobe knows the game and he picks and chooses when to attack, and it's usually at the right moment...Kobe could average 40 points on the year if he wanted to, but that is not what wins championships. Kobe exerts himself at the right moments and maximizes his game when it counts most...
Yep, it's kind of like Jordan earlier in his career when he just used to go hard like a bull all season long and in the end he couldn't get passed the Pistons. Later Jordan learned how to pick his spots. Kobe is now a master of that as well. Kobe knows how to pick his spots, and he has Phil Jackson on his side, who is a wizard at releasing pressure and not trying to just run over teams. Phil was talking about those old Piston rivalries and he said eventually they started running away from the pressure rather then meeting it head on; and that's the same way the Lakers play now. Which gives Kobe and the Lakers much more durability.
As for the argument that Kobe has a better supporting cast, that's not as obvious as you guys are making it out to be. Maybe he does have a better supporting cast, or maybe it's just that he makes them look better then they are. Either way, bottom line is until Lebron wins a championship he is not better than Kobe. Especially in a case like this season where Kobe's about to win another one.
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LeBron has exerted more of himself during the regular season than Kobe, but Kobe knows the game and he picks and chooses when to attack, and it's usually at the right moment...Kobe could average 40 points on the year if he wanted to, but that is not what wins championships. Kobe exerts himself at the right moments and maximizes his game when it counts most...
Yep, it's kind of like Jordan earlier in his career when he just used to go hard like a bull all season long and in the end he couldn't get passed the Pistons. Later Jordan learned how to pick his spots. Kobe is now a master of that as well. Kobe knows how to pick his spots, and he has Phil Jackson on his side, who is a wizard at releasing pressure and not trying to just run over teams. Phil was talking about those old Piston rivalries and he said eventually they started running away from the pressure rather then meeting it head on; and that's the same way the Lakers play now. Which gives Kobe and the Lakers much more durability.
As for the argument that Kobe has a better supporting cast, that's not as obvious as you guys are making it out to be. Maybe he does have a better supporting cast, or maybe it's just that he makes them look better then they are. Either way, bottom line is until Lebron wins a championship he is not better than Kobe. Especially in a case like this season where Kobe's about to win another one.
Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
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Seriously elior,your undying love for kobe is fucking creepy.
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I thought this NIK guy died or something?
NIK, when Kobe was putting up crazy stats but NOT winning, it was all about stats. Not anymore, right?!
Anyway, if I have to hear about the shitty fucking team that kobe took to the playoffs and almost beat the Suns with one more time, I will develop some sort of coping mechanism, like again trying to convince myself you are infact an alias...
You DO realize that Lakers team BLEW a 3-1 lead right? And don't even bring up the "one rebound" theory of yours...they lost three in a row. And NIK, at the time you predicted they would beat the Suns, and could even win the chip....
Anyway, LBJ DID take a team to the finals one year with Boobie Gibson starting!
Lebron is the best player in the league, but until he wins something I have no problem with people saying Kobe is better. Of course, everyone from Magic to Jerry west says Lebron is the best, but what do they know? I DO think the Lakers have a better chance of winning, but I think the real favourite that mad peeps are sleeping on is Orlando. There is something missing from both LA and Cleveland.
As for the Cavs winning it this year, I don't think they will- they don't have a killer instinct and I refuse to believe Mike Brown is a coach who can get it done.
BUt I can't wait to see the Suns vs the Lakers!
Of course NIK would write this thread...
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
Saying wrong again shows your insanity lol. Does it make you feel like you were right the first time? lolol
Kobe was never going to surprass Jordan. Only you Kobestans think that. Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league. You Kobe fans are just upset because Shaq brought 3 titles to LA....then he left, the team went south as you watched the Pistons, Spurs and Heat win titles. Then finally as Kobe started to shake the "he cant win without Shaq" talk...and got over the hump last year....LeBron takes over and Kobe is now "that guy who was the MVP 2 yrs ago" lol
As I said, has Lebron surpassed Kobe careerwise? Of course not. You would have to see where LeBron is in 5 years to make that assessment. But LeBron has been considered one of the top 2-3 players in the league since he hit the league. Not even the biggest Kobe dicksucker could argue that Kobe was lol. The man was traded for Vlade lol He was the 13th pick in the draft...Lebron #1. You cant say the expectations were EVER the same for these two lolol.
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BUt I can't wait to see the Suns Spurs vs the Lakers!
Looks like u made a typo....i fixed it for yah. ;)
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I thought this NIK guy died or something?
NIK, when Kobe was putting up crazy stats but NOT winning, it was all about stats. Not anymore, right?!
Anyway, if I have to hear about the shitty fucking team that kobe took to the playoffs and almost beat the Suns with one more time, I will develop some sort of coping mechanism, like again trying to convince myself you are infact an alias...
You DO realize that Lakers team BLEW a 3-1 lead right? And don't even bring up the "one rebound" theory of yours...they lost three in a row. And NIK, at the time you predicted they would beat the Suns, and could even win the chip....
Anyway, LBJ DID take a team to the finals one year with Boobie Gibson starting!
Lebron is the best player in the league, but until he wins something I have no problem with people saying Kobe is better. Of course, everyone from Magic to Jerry west says Lebron is the best, but what do they know? I DO think the Lakers have a better chance of winning, but I think the real favourite that mad peeps are sleeping on is Orlando. There is something missing from both LA and Cleveland.
As for the Cavs winning it this year, I don't think they will- they don't have a killer instinct and I refuse to believe Mike Brown is a coach who can get it done.
BUt I can't wait to see the Suns vs the Lakers!
Of course NIK would write this thread...
I have always been against using stats as a main argument, so I dunno what ur going on about...Of course that Laker team with Smush, Luke, and Kwame starting blew a 3-1 lead, but the amazing thing is that they even had a 3-1 lead over the Suns in the first place, when that Laker team was clearly in rebuilding mode. Kobe single-handedly willed a young, inexperienced, developing team to a 7 game series in the western conference against a team that was supposed to be contending for a championship. I never used that as an argument, I mentioned that because Daygo brought up the post-Shaq Kobe era as an argument against Kobe. BTW, Magic, who is being rivaled by Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, is known for speaking against Kobe and the Lakers...he does it every year and he almost always predicts the Lakers to lose. I dunno if he says it cuz he truly believe it or if he simply doesnt wanna seem partial because he's a part owner of the franchise (or perhaps it could even be said out of envy?).. But whatever the reason is, it's part of his gimmick, and any opinion from Magic Johnson on the Lakers should be taken with a grain of salt. At least you agreed with me on the main topic, though, which is that the Cavs have no killer instinct, and the main reason for that being that they take on the personality of their star leader (as every team typically does)...PeACe
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I thought this NIK guy died or something?
NIK, when Kobe was putting up crazy stats but NOT winning, it was all about stats. Not anymore, right?!
Anyway, if I have to hear about the shitty fucking team that kobe took to the playoffs and almost beat the Suns with one more time, I will develop some sort of coping mechanism, like again trying to convince myself you are infact an alias...
You DO realize that Lakers team BLEW a 3-1 lead right? And don't even bring up the "one rebound" theory of yours...they lost three in a row. And NIK, at the time you predicted they would beat the Suns, and could even win the chip....
Anyway, LBJ DID take a team to the finals one year with Boobie Gibson starting!
Lebron is the best player in the league, but until he wins something I have no problem with people saying Kobe is better. Of course, everyone from Magic to Jerry west says Lebron is the best, but what do they know? I DO think the Lakers have a better chance of winning, but I think the real favourite that mad peeps are sleeping on is Orlando. There is something missing from both LA and Cleveland.
As for the Cavs winning it this year, I don't think they will- they don't have a killer instinct and I refuse to believe Mike Brown is a coach who can get it done.
BUt I can't wait to see the Suns vs the Lakers!
Of course NIK would write this thread...
I have always been against using stats as a main argument, so I dunno what ur going on about...Of course that Laker team with Smush, Luke, and Kwame starting blew a 3-1 lead, but the amazing thing is that they even had a 3-1 lead over the Suns in the first place, when that Laker team was clearly in rebuilding mode. Kobe single-handedly willed a young, inexperienced, developing team to a 7 game series in the western conference against a team that was supposed to be contending for a championship. I never used that as an argument, I mentioned that because Daygo brought up the post-Shaq Kobe era as an argument against Kobe. BTW, Magic, who is being rivaled by Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, is known for speaking against Kobe and the Lakers...he does it every year and he almost always predicts the Lakers to lose. I dunno if he says it cuz he truly believe it or if he simply doesnt wanna seem partial because he's a part owner of the franchise (or perhaps it could even be said out of envy?).. But whatever the reason is, it's part of his gimmick, and any opinion from Magic Johnson on the Lakers should be taken with a grain of salt. At least you agreed with me on the main topic, though, which is that the Cavs have no killer instinct, and the main reason for that being that they take on the personality of their star leader (as every team typically does)...PeACe
this isnt hate man. But honestly...at least after the Shaq era in LA. If Magic predicts the Lakers to lose every year in the playoffs....he has only been wrong once :-X
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
Saying wrong again shows your insanity lol. Does it make you feel like you were right the first time? lolol
Kobe was never going to surprass Jordan. Only you Kobestans think that. Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league. You Kobe fans are just upset because Shaq brought 3 titles to LA....then he left, the team went south as you watched the Pistons, Spurs and Heat win titles. Then finally as Kobe started to shake the "he cant win without Shaq" talk...and got over the hump last year....LeBron takes over and Kobe is now "that guy who was the MVP 2 yrs ago" lol
As I said, has Lebron surpassed Kobe careerwise? Of course not. You would have to see where LeBron is in 5 years to make that assessment. But LeBron has been considered one of the top 2-3 players in the league since he hit the league. Not even the biggest Kobe dicksucker could argue that Kobe was lol. The man was traded for Vlade lol He was the 13th pick in the draft...Lebron #1. You cant say the expectations were EVER the same for these two lolol.
Insanity...right...Kobe has been compared to Jordan by pretty much every one, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Kobe was never a "side-kick", I dont understand how a first team all-nba and first team all-defense superstar can be seen as nothing but a "robin", but I'm not surprised you say that...In reality, Kobe was the guy who had the ball in his hands when the game mattered back in the threepeat era, and he was just as vital to those championship teams as Shaq was, and Shaq has said that himself (amongst many insiders who were part of that team). Would you discredit Magic's 5 rings and say he won them as a sidekick to Kareem? Honestly, it just sounds stupid when you're speaking of two hall-of-famers who played on the same championship team and contributed just as much in their own respect. And you're right, Kobe came into the league as an unpolished bench player playing behind an all-star for a world class franchise. He was never handed anything from the beginning, he had to work his way up and get to where he is today on his own, and that's a big part of why he has that killer instinct that LeBron doesn't.
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I thought this NIK guy died or something?
NIK, when Kobe was putting up crazy stats but NOT winning, it was all about stats. Not anymore, right?!
Anyway, if I have to hear about the shitty fucking team that kobe took to the playoffs and almost beat the Suns with one more time, I will develop some sort of coping mechanism, like again trying to convince myself you are infact an alias...
You DO realize that Lakers team BLEW a 3-1 lead right? And don't even bring up the "one rebound" theory of yours...they lost three in a row. And NIK, at the time you predicted they would beat the Suns, and could even win the chip....
Anyway, LBJ DID take a team to the finals one year with Boobie Gibson starting!
Lebron is the best player in the league, but until he wins something I have no problem with people saying Kobe is better. Of course, everyone from Magic to Jerry west says Lebron is the best, but what do they know? I DO think the Lakers have a better chance of winning, but I think the real favourite that mad peeps are sleeping on is Orlando. There is something missing from both LA and Cleveland.
As for the Cavs winning it this year, I don't think they will- they don't have a killer instinct and I refuse to believe Mike Brown is a coach who can get it done.
BUt I can't wait to see the Suns vs the Lakers!
Of course NIK would write this thread...
I have always been against using stats as a main argument, so I dunno what ur going on about...Of course that Laker team with Smush, Luke, and Kwame starting blew a 3-1 lead, but the amazing thing is that they even had a 3-1 lead over the Suns in the first place, when that Laker team was clearly in rebuilding mode. Kobe single-handedly willed a young, inexperienced, developing team to a 7 game series in the western conference against a team that was supposed to be contending for a championship. I never used that as an argument, I mentioned that because Daygo brought up the post-Shaq Kobe era as an argument against Kobe. BTW, Magic, who is being rivaled by Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, is known for speaking against Kobe and the Lakers...he does it every year and he almost always predicts the Lakers to lose. I dunno if he says it cuz he truly believe it or if he simply doesnt wanna seem partial because he's a part owner of the franchise (or perhaps it could even be said out of envy?).. But whatever the reason is, it's part of his gimmick, and any opinion from Magic Johnson on the Lakers should be taken with a grain of salt. At least you agreed with me on the main topic, though, which is that the Cavs have no killer instinct, and the main reason for that being that they take on the personality of their star leader (as every team typically does)...PeACe
this isnt hate man. But honestly...at least after the Shaq era in LA. If Magic predicts the Lakers to lose every year in the playoffs....he has only been wrong once :-X
but only 2 of those teams were contending for a ring, so yea......
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Amazing. All this time went by, all these bad things happened to you on the dub and you're still exactly the same guy since ever.
With that said, LeBron is currently better than Kobe. Kobe also got slaughtered by the Celtics with an even more amazing/deeper cast.
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Amazing. All this time went by, all these bad things happened to you on the dub and you're still exactly the same guy since ever.
With that said, LeBron is currently better than Kobe. Kobe also got slaughtered by the Celtics with an even more amazing/deeper cast.
The same guy always making great points to put the misguided sheep in check, right? ;)
What makes LeBron better than Kobe? Until he can prove that he's not just a regular season highlight reel, he will not be comparable to a player of Kobe's status. NBA fans get way too excited, way too quick...your fickle media-guided minds have been touched. :-*
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
Saying wrong again shows your insanity lol. Does it make you feel like you were right the first time? lolol
Kobe was never going to surprass Jordan. Only you Kobestans think that. Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league. You Kobe fans are just upset because Shaq brought 3 titles to LA....then he left, the team went south as you watched the Pistons, Spurs and Heat win titles. Then finally as Kobe started to shake the "he cant win without Shaq" talk...and got over the hump last year....LeBron takes over and Kobe is now "that guy who was the MVP 2 yrs ago" lol
As I said, has Lebron surpassed Kobe careerwise? Of course not. You would have to see where LeBron is in 5 years to make that assessment. But LeBron has been considered one of the top 2-3 players in the league since he hit the league. Not even the biggest Kobe dicksucker could argue that Kobe was lol. The man was traded for Vlade lol He was the 13th pick in the draft...Lebron #1. You cant say the expectations were EVER the same for these two lolol.
Insanity...right...Kobe has been compared to Jordan by pretty much every one, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Kobe was never a "side-kick", I dont understand how a first team all-nba and first team all-defense superstar can be seen as nothing but a "robin", but I'm not surprised you say that...In reality, Kobe was the guy who had the ball in his hands when the game mattered back in the threepeat era, and he was just as vital to those championship teams as Shaq was, and Shaq has said that himself (amongst many insiders who were part of that team). Would you discredit Magic's 5 rings and say he won them as a sidekick to Kareem? Honestly, it just sounds stupid when you're speaking of two hall-of-famers who played on the same championship team and contributed just as much in their own respect. And you're right, Kobe came into the league as an unpolished bench player playing behind an all-star for a world class franchise. He was never handed anything from the beginning, he had to work his way up and get to where he is today on his own, and that's a big part of why he has that killer instinct that LeBron doesn't.
lol Magic was the Finals MVP his rookie year.
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Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league.
These aren't side kick #s:
Playoffs
2000 - 21.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 1.5 steals
2001 - 29.4 points, 7.3 rebounds, 6.1 assists, 1.6 steals
2002 - 26.6 points, 5.8 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 1.4 steas
Let's not forget that Kobe was often the go to guy in the final minutes because opposing teams wanted to foul Shaq every time he had the ball so they could send him to the free throw line.
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
Saying wrong again shows your insanity lol. Does it make you feel like you were right the first time? lolol
Kobe was never going to surprass Jordan. Only you Kobestans think that. Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league. You Kobe fans are just upset because Shaq brought 3 titles to LA....then he left, the team went south as you watched the Pistons, Spurs and Heat win titles. Then finally as Kobe started to shake the "he cant win without Shaq" talk...and got over the hump last year....LeBron takes over and Kobe is now "that guy who was the MVP 2 yrs ago" lol
As I said, has Lebron surpassed Kobe careerwise? Of course not. You would have to see where LeBron is in 5 years to make that assessment. But LeBron has been considered one of the top 2-3 players in the league since he hit the league. Not even the biggest Kobe dicksucker could argue that Kobe was lol. The man was traded for Vlade lol He was the 13th pick in the draft...Lebron #1. You cant say the expectations were EVER the same for these two lolol.
Insanity...right...Kobe has been compared to Jordan by pretty much every one, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Kobe was never a "side-kick", I dont understand how a first team all-nba and first team all-defense superstar can be seen as nothing but a "robin", but I'm not surprised you say that...In reality, Kobe was the guy who had the ball in his hands when the game mattered back in the threepeat era, and he was just as vital to those championship teams as Shaq was, and Shaq has said that himself (amongst many insiders who were part of that team). Would you discredit Magic's 5 rings and say he won them as a sidekick to Kareem? Honestly, it just sounds stupid when you're speaking of two hall-of-famers who played on the same championship team and contributed just as much in their own respect. And you're right, Kobe came into the league as an unpolished bench player playing behind an all-star for a world class franchise. He was never handed anything from the beginning, he had to work his way up and get to where he is today on his own, and that's a big part of why he has that killer instinct that LeBron doesn't.
lol Magic was the Finals MVP his rookie year.
That's because Kareem didn't play...had Kareem played, Kareem would have been Finals MVP, and people with your mindset woulda thought "oh yea, Magic won, but he was just a sidekick to Kareem"...That's simply not how it works when you got two all-time GOATs on one team.
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Why LeBron will NEVER Be Kobe...
1) he will never have Shaq in his prime.
2) he will never have Ron Artest (elite defender), Pau Gasol (top big man according to NIK), Andrew Bynum (future Wilt Chamberlain according to NIK) & Lamaar Odom coming off the bench for him.
we all saw the year Shaq left & the Lakers finished .500. ;)
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Why LeBron will NEVER Be Kobe...
1) he will never have Shaq in his prime.
2) he will never have Ron Artest (elite defender), Pau Gasol (top big man according to NIK), Andrew Bynum (future Wilt Chamberlain according to NIK) & Lamaar Odom coming off the bench for him.
we all saw the year Shaq left & the Lakers finished .500. ;)
not having a ring is really the biggest mark on any great players resume, so I'd put that as number 1
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^Wrong again. When Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring the Mavs team) and followed it up with an 81 point performance while he was just entering his prime, expectations for Kobe were that he'd be the greatest individual talent ever, and that if he ever surpassed Jordan in rings, he'd be argued as the greatest of all time. When people currently talk about LeBron like that, it's laughable. Kobe still has a chance to surpass Jordan in rings, while LeBron is still looking for his first. As for makin players better, how is LeBron making Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams better?...Did Mo Williams look better last night? Did LeBron James make Ben Wallace better when he came to Cleveland? Honestly, LeBron's distribution skills aren't nearly as great as they seem, mostly because Cleveland runs an offense where every play is ran through LeBron...Mostly ISO plays for LeBron, at that, which in turn leads to him getting a ton of assists...But LeBron never took a team composed of 3 starters who dont deserve to be in an NBA rotation to the playoffs like Kobe did in 2006. Kobe made Smush Parker look legit, got Luke Walton a 5 mill per year contract, and made Kwame look like a legit starter. Kobe not only elevates the level of play of his teammates, but also the mindset as a group, and will to win with his tenacity, hunger, and HEART...PeACe
Saying wrong again shows your insanity lol. Does it make you feel like you were right the first time? lolol
Kobe was never going to surprass Jordan. Only you Kobestans think that. Was Jordan ever the Robin on those Bulls teams? No. Kobe has played the Batman role on only 1 championship. He was the sidekick on the others. You cant compare Kobe's first three titles as a sidekick to ANY of Jordans three titles as the focal point of the entire league. You Kobe fans are just upset because Shaq brought 3 titles to LA....then he left, the team went south as you watched the Pistons, Spurs and Heat win titles. Then finally as Kobe started to shake the "he cant win without Shaq" talk...and got over the hump last year....LeBron takes over and Kobe is now "that guy who was the MVP 2 yrs ago" lol
As I said, has Lebron surpassed Kobe careerwise? Of course not. You would have to see where LeBron is in 5 years to make that assessment. But LeBron has been considered one of the top 2-3 players in the league since he hit the league. Not even the biggest Kobe dicksucker could argue that Kobe was lol. The man was traded for Vlade lol He was the 13th pick in the draft...Lebron #1. You cant say the expectations were EVER the same for these two lolol.
Insanity...right...Kobe has been compared to Jordan by pretty much every one, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Kobe was never a "side-kick", I dont understand how a first team all-nba and first team all-defense superstar can be seen as nothing but a "robin", but I'm not surprised you say that...In reality, Kobe was the guy who had the ball in his hands when the game mattered back in the threepeat era, and he was just as vital to those championship teams as Shaq was, and Shaq has said that himself (amongst many insiders who were part of that team). Would you discredit Magic's 5 rings and say he won them as a sidekick to Kareem? Honestly, it just sounds stupid when you're speaking of two hall-of-famers who played on the same championship team and contributed just as much in their own respect. And you're right, Kobe came into the league as an unpolished bench player playing behind an all-star for a world class franchise. He was never handed anything from the beginning, he had to work his way up and get to where he is today on his own, and that's a big part of why he has that killer instinct that LeBron doesn't.
lol Magic was the Finals MVP his rookie year.
That's because Kareem didn't play...had Kareem played, Kareem would have been Finals MVP, and people with your mindset woulda thought "oh yea, Magic won, but he was just a sidekick to Kareem"...That's simply not how it works when you got two all-time GOATs on one team.
lol IF Shaq didnt play...Kobe wouldnt have won ANY of those 3-peat titles lol
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bump.
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On a side note...what is up with Kobe in those all white pics? I'm not normally one to criticize fashion but what the fuck is that shit?
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nuthin to do with fashion.....waz up wit the looks....hes askin for trouble lookin like that
On a side note...what is up with Kobe in those all white pics? I'm not normally one to criticize fashion but what the fuck is that shit?
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why was my thread about LeBron's current performance merged with a comedy/joke thread?...the best discussion this forum has had in years and its been merged in a mocking fashion. Wow. This is why I stopped posting and a huge reason why this section fell off...what a joke. LOL
to the 5 year old fruitcake who thought it would be funny, good job killing off the thread with the most activity/discussion this section has seen in months.
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why was my thread about LeBron's current performance merged with a comedy/joke thread?...the best discussion this forum has had in years and its been merged in a mocking fashion. Wow. This is why I stopped posting and a huge reason why this section fell off...what a joke. LOL
to the 5 year old fruitcake who thought it would be funny, good job killing off the thread with the most activity/discussion this section has seen in months.
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I didnt know a grown man confessing his love for another man over and over again constitued as a discussion.
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LeBron's current performance?
my man was just handed the MVP for the second year in a row with 30, 7 & 7 numbers. :D
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LeBron's current performance?
my man was just handed the MVP for the second year in a row with 30, 7 & 7 numbers. :D
the thread was about LeBron's lack of ability to step it up when it counts most, which is well documented...had the main topic been about how great Kobe is, maybe it woulda been SOMEWHAT funny and not so childish, but the fact that this mod merged a serious thread with a diss thread, trying to bring the gspot into this section, is actually quite sad...PeACe
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Shut the fuck up elior,go jerk off to those creepy pictures of kobe looking like a black amish autistic rapist.
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what is going on? I thought someone on here told me NIK got kicked off....yet here he is, once again professing his undying love for Kobe.
Can you imagine what these Kobe-in-white pics have done to NIK?! I guess he just isnt thinking straight...
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I thought this NIK guy died or something?
NIK, when Kobe was putting up crazy stats but NOT winning, it was all about stats. Not anymore, right?!
Anyway, if I have to hear about the shitty fucking team that kobe took to the playoffs and almost beat the Suns with one more time, I will develop some sort of coping mechanism, like again trying to convince myself you are infact an alias...
You DO realize that Lakers team BLEW a 3-1 lead right? And don't even bring up the "one rebound" theory of yours...they lost three in a row. And NIK, at the time you predicted they would beat the Suns, and could even win the chip....
Anyway, LBJ DID take a team to the finals one year with Boobie Gibson starting!
Lebron is the best player in the league, but until he wins something I have no problem with people saying Kobe is better. Of course, everyone from Magic to Jerry west says Lebron is the best, but what do they know? I DO think the Lakers have a better chance of winning, but I think the real favourite that mad peeps are sleeping on is Orlando. There is something missing from both LA and Cleveland.
As for the Cavs winning it this year, I don't think they will- they don't have a killer instinct and I refuse to believe Mike Brown is a coach who can get it done.
BUt I can't wait to see the Suns vs the Lakers!
Of course NIK would write this thread...
I have always been against using stats as a main argument, so I dunno what ur going on about...Of course that Laker team with Smush, Luke, and Kwame starting blew a 3-1 lead, but the amazing thing is that they even had a 3-1 lead over the Suns in the first place, when that Laker team was clearly in rebuilding mode. Kobe single-handedly willed a young, inexperienced, developing team to a 7 game series in the western conference against a team that was supposed to be contending for a championship. I never used that as an argument, I mentioned that because Daygo brought up the post-Shaq Kobe era as an argument against Kobe. BTW, Magic, who is being rivaled by Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, is known for speaking against Kobe and the Lakers...he does it every year and he almost always predicts the Lakers to lose. I dunno if he says it cuz he truly believe it or if he simply doesnt wanna seem partial because he's a part owner of the franchise (or perhaps it could even be said out of envy?).. But whatever the reason is, it's part of his gimmick, and any opinion from Magic Johnson on the Lakers should be taken with a grain of salt. At least you agreed with me on the main topic, though, which is that the Cavs have no killer instinct, and the main reason for that being that they take on the personality of their star leader (as every team typically does)...PeACe
I know you are an alias...there is no otherway to rationalize your logic...its all shock tactic, no sense.
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I guess acting like an overemotional bitch actually gets results around here. Impressive.
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LeBron's current performance?
my man was just handed the MVP for the second year in a row with 30, 7 & 7 numbers. :D
the thread was about LeBron's lack of ability to step it up when it counts most, which is well documented...had the main topic been about how great Kobe is, maybe it woulda been SOMEWHAT funny and not so childish, but the fact that this mod merged a serious thread with a diss thread, trying to bring the gspot into this section, is actually quite sad...PeACe
Sometimes I wonder if you are more obsessed with Kobe....or LeBron. LeBron can have 40 great games in a row, then one game where he isnt great...and you feel the need to say "see!! He isnt as good as Kobe!!" LOL as If Kobe doesnt have shitty games. Oh wait...when Kobe has a bad game, its cus he is taking it easy huh? LOL. Like I said before...Kobe is still trying to crack the top ten list for all time players. Maybe one day he will do it. Most lists have Duncan somewhere between 7 and 9. ;) Im secure enough to admit, I wouldnt surprised if LeBron ends up ahead of Duncan. But he will almost definetely end up ahead of Kobe...barring a horrible injury.
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
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^but how much stock do you honestly put in his opinion?
let's say he said the opposite, you wouldn't say "well, MJ DID say LeBron is better, so he must be right".
Jordan's opinion is the same as anyone elses.
LeBron finished the year averaging 30, 7 & 7; shooting a little better than 50% from the field; just animalistic numbers.
people are so quick to jump to Kobe because of the rings when he needed so much help to get them.
but once you say, "who is the better player?" can you even talk about rings? right away, you're turning it into an individual conversation.
"which player is better?", it's not which team is better, because TEAMS win rings, not single players; so how do you even count rings like that?
i'll say that to say this, Karl Malone is one million times the player Robert Horry is; but you guys don't jump so quick to say, "but Robert's got more rings!"; it's just Karl is the better player.
LeBron is the better player, Kobe's just been more successful thanks to the most dominating big man in history & a cast of All-Stars in 2009 & 10.
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
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^that was a sick post lol.
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^but how much stock do you honestly put in his opinion?
let's say he said the opposite, you wouldn't say "well, MJ DID say LeBron is better, so he must be right".
Jordan's opinion is the same as anyone elses.
LeBron finished the year averaging 30, 7 & 7; shooting a little better than 50% from the field; just animalistic numbers.
people are so quick to jump to Kobe because of the rings when he needed so much help to get them.
but once you say, "who is the better player?" can you even talk about rings? right away, you're turning it into an individual conversation.
"which player is better?", it's not which team is better, because TEAMS win rings, not single players; so how do you even count rings like that?
i'll say that to say this, Karl Malone is one million times the player Robert Horry is; but you guys don't jump so quick to say, "but Robert's got more rings!"; it's just Karl is the better player.
LeBron is the better player, Kobe's just been more successful thanks to the most dominating big man in history & a cast of All-Stars in 2009 & 10.
First of all, a teams personality takes on the team leaders personality, so if your team leader is a winner and has killer instinct, so should the team. The reason you seem to think the Laker supporting cast is so amazing, when in reality the Laker supporting cast is actually nothing special compared to most supporting casts in the history of nba championship teams, is because Kobe makes them look better. He helped make an aging Fisher look like a legit starting point guard, he helped make a shallow bench look deep, he helped take Gasol's status from star big to one of the best bigs in the world, his presence on the court draws so much attention that players like Bynum and Odom consistently put up all-star worthy numbers without making any all-star teams...Kobe is the only star back-court player on his team, while LeBron is playing alongside a star guard, a star power forward, a future hall-of-fame center, and a bench so deep that it could beat out some starting fives in this league...So don't say "Kobe did it with so much help", when in reality, LeBron has just as much help, if not more and can't get it done (in a weaker conference, nonetheless).
Second of all, comparing Karl Malone to Robert Horry is stupid, because Horry won rings as a role player, not a star player. For example, a lot of people say Duncan is better than Malone and use the fact that Duncan was a winner and Malone wasn't as a main argument. ...That's would be a good argument, because they're both star players who led their team. but comparing role players to premier players is just really not going to win you any arguments.
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^LeBron touches the ball on 99% of the Cavs possesions, sets up every play, good enough for 62 wins & does it with half the cast the Lakers have.
he takes a shot or drives on 70% of the possesions & teams still can't stop him; just an unstoppable force.
& fine, you can say my Malone/Horry argument is invald; but that doesn't change that when you compare individual players you can't count something that's a team effort.
Kobe doesn't win rings, the Lakers win rings; Kobe is just a part of that.
Passing? LeBron.
Scoring at will? LeBron.
Defense? i'm going to say tie.
Clutch? Kobe; but with LeBron scoring at will all game long, you'll only need half the clutch moments as you would with Kobe.
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
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But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
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Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.
true that
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^LeBron touches the ball on 99% of the Cavs possesions, sets up every play, good enough for 62 wins & does it with half the cast the Lakers have.
he takes a shot or drives on 70% of the possesions & teams still can't stop him; just an unstoppable force.
& fine, you can say my Malone/Horry argument is invald; but that doesn't change that when you compare individual players you can't count something that's a team effort.
Kobe doesn't win rings, the Lakers win rings; Kobe is just a part of that.
Passing? LeBron.
Scoring at will? LeBron.
Defense? i'm going to say tie.
Clutch? Kobe; but with LeBron scoring at will all game long, you'll only need half the clutch moments as you would with Kobe.
Kobe is not "just" part of a team that won a ring, what don't you get? Kobe LED his team to a championship ring, which is the ultimate feature on a great players resume. Being able to lead your team to a title is the goal and what separates the great players from the greatEST players. Yes, LeBron touches the ball on 99% of Cavs possessions, which is also a big reason why he has an untouchable stat-line and a big reason for why the media drools over him more than anyone in the history of the NBA (including Jordan). But if that system only produces incredible stats, yet can't lead to him winning a title, then it's accomplished nothing...
your breakdown on both players is horrible:
SCORING- Kobe is a WAY better scorer (has a much better shot, better handles, can penetrate OR stop on a dime for a jumpshot)
DEFENDING- LeBron is not even in the same discussion with Kobe when it comes to D (Kobe=all-nba 1st team pretty much every year, LeBron still has a long way to go on D, especially when it comes to staying in front of his man)
PASSING- Kobe is an underrated passer and has an unparalleled knack for spoon-feeding players out of double teams (also averages a good amount of assists in a system that doesn't produce high assist number).
CLUTCH- being clutch is always a huge factor, because you want your star player to be able to perform at his best when the game matters most, like in the Finals for instance... :)
If LeBron wins this year, he will reach that status and shut me up for good. As of now, you fickle NBA fans need to wait before you let the media hype you up this much...PeACe
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But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.
another solid point
Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25
i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment
Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kobe
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
What are you talkin about? Tony Parker was a Finals MVP on one of those Spurs championship teams. Manu Ginobli is one of the greatest Euros to ever play this game...Duncan didn't only win with 1 other star player on his team, but 2. Some can argue that having the combination of Parker and Ginobli on your team is more of an asset than having just Shaq. The point is, Kobe was a focal point on the Laker teams of the threepeat era just as much as Shaq was, just like Magic was a focal point on the Laker teams of the showtime era just as much as Kareem was. Every star on a championship team has had to share the spotlight, some more, some less. Doesn't take away from the fact that they were great players who were a focal point on great championship teams.
Also, I don't think it's ABSURD to say Lebron played better basketball this season than Kobe. But is he actually the better overall player? The answer is no. Yes, Kobe has had to tone his game down and play through numerous injuries this year, but his status amongst the greatests was earned through winning.. and with experience, he learned that there are sacrifices to be made if you wanna win it all. LeBron is not going to reach that status until he wins and elevates his game when something is actually at stake.
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But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.
another solid point
Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25
i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment
Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale
LOL@putting some of those names above Kobe :-X Horrible, Hack.
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But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.
another solid point
Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25
i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment
Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale
LOL@putting some of those names above Kobe :-X Horrible, Hack.
oh shit man...i meant to have Kobe at #10
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
What are you talkin about? Tony Parker was a Finals MVP on one of those Spurs championship teams. Manu Ginobli is one of the greatest Euros to ever play this game...Duncan didn't only win with 1 other star player on his team, but 2. Some can argue that having the combination of Parker and Ginobli on your team is more of an asset than having just Shaq. The point is, Kobe was a focal point on the Laker teams of the threepeat era just as much as Shaq was, just like Magic was a focal point on the Laker teams of the showtime era just as much as Kareem was. Every star on a championship team has had to share the spotlight, some more, some less. Doesn't take away from the fact that they were great players who were a focal point on great championship teams.
Also, I don't think it's ABSURD to say Lebron played better basketball this season than Kobe. But is he actually the better overall player? The answer is no. Yes, Kobe has had to tone his game down and play through numerous injuries this year, but his status amongst the greatests was earned through winning.. and with experience, he learned that there are sacrifices to be made if you wanna win it all. LeBron is not going to reach that status until he wins and elevates his game when something is actually at stake.
Shaq was scoring 30 points and grabbing 15 rebounds a game in the playoffs during the Lakers run...and there was NO center in the league who was even half as good from 1998-2005 (once Dwight Howard started to evolve)
Lebron on the other hand has Mo Williams as his sidekick???? i'm glad to see u respect Bron's place in the game tho.
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Dude just when the Lakers become my favorite team cus Ron Artest joined; now NIK has to ruin it and make me hate the lakers again cus hes the biggest dick riding laker faggot
nvm, I hope Spurs win against the suns and play the Lakers and i hope Ron Artest kills them defensively so i can talk shit to all my friends
oh yeah and Elior, FYI
Ron Artest> Kobe Bryant> Lebron James
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
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"Why LeBron Will NEVER Be Kobe"
I was expecting this to have something to so with his ability to distribute the basketball, fill up the entire stat sheet (not just the points section), respect amongst teammates..the league..and the fans, not taking fag pictures in all white veils and pilgrim suits...
distribute the ball? did u not see last nights game? or the whole season kobes been the assist leader, and in the triangle it seems the assists are always spread out.
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
What are you talkin about? Tony Parker was a Finals MVP on one of those Spurs championship teams. Manu Ginobli is one of the greatest Euros to ever play this game...Duncan didn't only win with 1 other star player on his team, but 2. Some can argue that having the combination of Parker and Ginobli on your team is more of an asset than having just Shaq. The point is, Kobe was a focal point on the Laker teams of the threepeat era just as much as Shaq was, just like Magic was a focal point on the Laker teams of the showtime era just as much as Kareem was. Every star on a championship team has had to share the spotlight, some more, some less. Doesn't take away from the fact that they were great players who were a focal point on great championship teams.
Also, I don't think it's ABSURD to say Lebron played better basketball this season than Kobe. But is he actually the better overall player? The answer is no. Yes, Kobe has had to tone his game down and play through numerous injuries this year, but his status amongst the greatests was earned through winning.. and with experience, he learned that there are sacrifices to be made if you wanna win it all. LeBron is not going to reach that status until he wins and elevates his game when something is actually at stake.
Shaq was scoring 30 points and grabbing 15 rebounds a game in the playoffs during the Lakers run...and there was NO center in the league who was even half as good from 1998-2005 (once Dwight Howard started to evolve)
Lebron on the other hand has Mo Williams as his sidekick???? i'm glad to see u respect Bron's place in the game tho.
Antawn Jamison+Mo Williams=2 star players+Shaq=hall-of-famer who still has some gas left in the tank (according to Cleveland faithful and the media). Plus, the Cavs have a bench that could beat out some starting fives in this league...LeBron has his share of help and this team is built to win. Cavs went into the playoffs as the favorites to take it all...so if he doesn't accomplish that, it's nothing short of a huge disappointment and the LeBron era in Cleveland will have ended on a sour note (if he departs to another team).
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Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.
You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch. And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.
Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...
As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?
Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.
The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.
What are you talkin about? Tony Parker was a Finals MVP on one of those Spurs championship teams. Manu Ginobli is one of the greatest Euros to ever play this game...Duncan didn't only win with 1 other star player on his team, but 2. Some can argue that having the combination of Parker and Ginobli on your team is more of an asset than having just Shaq. The point is, Kobe was a focal point on the Laker teams of the threepeat era just as much as Shaq was, just like Magic was a focal point on the Laker teams of the showtime era just as much as Kareem was. Every star on a championship team has had to share the spotlight, some more, some less. Doesn't take away from the fact that they were great players who were a focal point on great championship teams.
Also, I don't think it's ABSURD to say Lebron played better basketball this season than Kobe. But is he actually the better overall player? The answer is no. Yes, Kobe has had to tone his game down and play through numerous injuries this year, but his status amongst the greatests was earned through winning.. and with experience, he learned that there are sacrifices to be made if you wanna win it all. LeBron is not going to reach that status until he wins and elevates his game when something is actually at stake.
Yeah Parker was the MVP for ONE of the 4 finals the Spurs were in. Duncan was MVP three other times. Parker is good, and Manu is very good too. Neither is a surefire HOF'er. Manu will probably get in, IMO. But are you seriously comparing having either of those two....to Kobe having Shaq? lol. Shaq is considered a top 10 ALL TIME player man. That would be like Duncan having Magic with him. Not to mention, before the Lakers...Shaq took Orlando to the finals. As much as I like Parker and Manu, neither of them is taking a team to the finals as the only superstar on the team. So yes, Kobe had more help...obviously. And yes, he was Robin. At the very least...for the real big Kobe fans, Kobe had an equal on the team. (again, only Kobe fans really think that). Duncan did not have an equal.
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it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
NIK has made a career outta doing that here tho man. Remember how he defended the greatness that was Kwame Brown? But yeah, then flip flops when you say Kobe has so much help lol
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
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it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
NIK has made a career outta doing that here tho man. Remember how he defended the greatness that was Kwame Brown? But yeah, then flip flops when you say Kobe has so much help lol
I always said Kwame had the POTENTIAL (and he did play good in stretches), but I never claimed he was already a star or anything like that LOL.
Lakers have a good supporting cast, don't get me wrong...My point was that a big part of the success you see in the Laker supporting cast comes from Kobe leading them. Lakers currently don't have a deep bench compared to the other contending teams, and that's the general opinion amongst the league. That doesn't mean the role players aren't good, it just means that aside from Odom, the talent-level on the Laker bench this season takes a huge dip from the talent level of the starters. But regardless, this team knows how to win as a unit and this team plays their best down the stretch, when the stakes are the highest. That's because they've taken on a champion mentality, due to the winning ways of team leader, Kobe Bryant.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
Could be...I can't say what would have happened, many things coulda gone down different in the NBA had Jordan not played in 97-98. In what way is that relevant to the topic?
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
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he said bynum would be all star this year.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
Gasol is great, don't get me wrong, and Andrew Bynum is currently a center who has a chance to be a star for years to come...Odom, as well, has always played at an all-star level, but he was questioned throughout his career until Kobe finally helped lead him to a ring... and no doubt, Artest is a tremendous 1-on-1 defender, but lets be real here, Artest has been a void on offense in the triangle, which he's still figuring out...you have to take every factor into the equation. when it comes down to it, Lakers would NOT make the playoffs without Kobe, no way, not in the west, where it took 50 wins to grab an 8th seed...If this Laker team would reach 50 wins without Kobe, that would be the overachievement of the decade. Cleveland play good as a unit, on both ends, even without LeBron, and they play in the east, so they woulda had a much easier time making the playoffs minus LeBron than the Lakers minus Kobe...Cavs would have an easier time beating the Bulls or Bucks or Bobcats without LeBron than the Lakers would have beating the Thunder or Spurs or Blazers minus Kobe, wouldn't you say?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
Could be...I can't say what would have happened, many things coulda gone down different in the NBA had Jordan not played in 97-98. In what way is that relevant to the topic?
I think most people would say the Jazz would have won that series. There was no team in the league better then them...OTHER then the Bulls. With that being said...if Jordan would have left a year early, Malone would have a title. Would that make him a better player all time because Jordan wasnt there?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
Could be...I can't say what would have happened, many things coulda gone down different in the NBA had Jordan not played in 97-98. In what way is that relevant to the topic?
I think most people would say the Jazz would have won that series. There was no team in the league better then them...OTHER then the Bulls. With that being said...if Jordan would have left a year early, Malone would have a title. Would that make him a better player all time because Jordan wasnt there?
A championship on Malone's resume would definitely add to his legacy and up his rank. Can't say if he woulda won it or not, though. Maybe whoever came out of the east instead of the Bulls that year woulda won it, or maybe the NBA season woulda played out different if teams weren't focused on beating the Bulls that year.. who knows?...the point is, you can't base shit on ifs and buts. Malone didn't win a ring in his career and that's part of what defines him as a player. If Jordan was just "as good" as he was, but never won a championship (don't really think that's possible, but lets just say it is for the sake of argument), do you think his legacy would be as celebrated as it currently is? Honestly?
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Nik do you like kobes new pics?
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I want to see nik defend kobes pilgrim pictures.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
Could be...I can't say what would have happened, many things coulda gone down different in the NBA had Jordan not played in 97-98. In what way is that relevant to the topic?
I think most people would say the Jazz would have won that series. There was no team in the league better then them...OTHER then the Bulls. With that being said...if Jordan would have left a year early, Malone would have a title. Would that make him a better player all time because Jordan wasnt there?
A championship on Malone's resume would definitely add to his legacy and up his rank. Can't say if he woulda won it or not, though. Maybe whoever came out of the east instead of the Bulls that year woulda won it, or maybe the NBA season woulda played out different if teams weren't focused on beating the Bulls that year.. who knows?...the point is, you can't base shit on ifs and buts. Malone didn't win a ring in his career and that's part of what defines him as a player. If Jordan was just "as good" as he was, but never won a championship (don't really think that's possible, but lets just say it is for the sake of argument), do you think his legacy would be as celebrated as it currently is? Honestly?
Jordan? No. Definitely not. But I also think it has a LOT to do with the dynamics of the team you won with. I used Malone for a reason when I asked. Cus originally this talk was about Kobe and LeBron (I'll explain). If Malone won 6 championships...and Jordan won 6, Jordans 6 would outweigh Malones as far as public perception goes. The reason? Cus although Jordan had Pippen, Jordan was without question...THE man on those teams. When you thought Bulls...you thought Jordan. HE was the face. Malone however, was part of a duo that were always mentioned in the same breath. It was Stockton and Malone. Neither was considered THE man on that team. Shit, if you asked a lot of people...Stockton was the leader of those teams, not Malone. That to me, is what hurts Malone in the "greatest PF of all time" argument. When you think of Duncan and his championship runs, you think "Duncans Spurs". If Malone won titles, youd think "Stockton and Malones Jazz". Likewise, with the Lakers 3-peats....a lot of people feel Shaq was the focal point of those teams. But regardless of that or where your opinion on that is....it was always "Shaq and Kobe". And you know that. So people tend to look at those titles as Kobe being a key part of a great team. Thats why I dont weigh the championships so heavily...ALWAYS. Sometimes, yes. In Jordans case...the championships are huge (he was the main guy). In Duncans case, they are huge (he was the main guy). Hakeem, huge. Kobe winning the championship last year as THE man, huge. Lebron has been THE man on this team since day one...and still (IMO), we havent seen his best yet. But I dont think we can use championships to question where he stands in the ranks of current NBA'rs because youd have a difficult time finding ANYONE who believes the Lakers would not have won those titles with Shaq....if Lebron was playing with him. The entire Lakers team was so good together.
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(http://radiobigboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/kobe-bryant-3.jpg)
Why did he do this?
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(http://radiobigboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/kobe-bryant-3.jpg)
Why did he do this?
I gotta pretty good guess...but I dont think NIK would like it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-2007_NBA_season#Western_Conference
can we just close the thread?
it was kind of funny how back in the day when people use to say players on the Lakers were wack, NIK fought each and every battle & even made Jordan Farmar out to be some All-Star; now when we're saying, you were right, they are mad good, that's why they win, he QUICKLY turns it around to "Kobe makes them good, they're just alright without him" lol.
EDIT: who are you tryna fool, brah? hypothetically speaking of course, if LeBron, D-Wade & Chris Bosh teamed up in the off-season & won the next seven rings together, you would find something to bitch at about LeBron & how his winning doesn't compare to Kobe's.
I dont get what your argument is...I never said the Laker supporting players were whack, and I never made them out to be better than they were either. They are what they are, a champion supporting cast who know their role, partly because their leader is a champion who helps guide them into that winning mentality. If LeBron wins 7 rings while playing at the highest level, he will definitely be in the argument for greatest of all time. Like I said, even if LeBron wins it this year, my opinion on him will change drastically...PeACe
Would u say if Jordan left the league after his 5th title...the Jazz would have won the championship the following year, instead of the Bulls?
Could be...I can't say what would have happened, many things coulda gone down different in the NBA had Jordan not played in 97-98. In what way is that relevant to the topic?
I think most people would say the Jazz would have won that series. There was no team in the league better then them...OTHER then the Bulls. With that being said...if Jordan would have left a year early, Malone would have a title. Would that make him a better player all time because Jordan wasnt there?
A championship on Malone's resume would definitely add to his legacy and up his rank. Can't say if he woulda won it or not, though. Maybe whoever came out of the east instead of the Bulls that year woulda won it, or maybe the NBA season woulda played out different if teams weren't focused on beating the Bulls that year.. who knows?...the point is, you can't base shit on ifs and buts. Malone didn't win a ring in his career and that's part of what defines him as a player. If Jordan was just "as good" as he was, but never won a championship (don't really think that's possible, but lets just say it is for the sake of argument), do you think his legacy would be as celebrated as it currently is? Honestly?
Jordan? No. Definitely not. But I also think it has a LOT to do with the dynamics of the team you won with. I used Malone for a reason when I asked. Cus originally this talk was about Kobe and LeBron (I'll explain). If Malone won 6 championships...and Jordan won 6, Jordans 6 would outweigh Malones as far as public perception goes. The reason? Cus although Jordan had Pippen, Jordan was without question...THE man on those teams. When you thought Bulls...you thought Jordan. HE was the face. Malone however, was part of a duo that were always mentioned in the same breath. It was Stockton and Malone. Neither was considered THE man on that team. Shit, if you asked a lot of people...Stockton was the leader of those teams, not Malone. That to me, is what hurts Malone in the "greatest PF of all time" argument. When you think of Duncan and his championship runs, you think "Duncans Spurs". If Malone won titles, youd think "Stockton and Malones Jazz". Likewise, with the Lakers 3-peats....a lot of people feel Shaq was the focal point of those teams. But regardless of that or where your opinion on that is....it was always "Shaq and Kobe". And you know that. So people tend to look at those titles as Kobe being a key part of a great team. Thats why I dont weigh the championships so heavily...ALWAYS. Sometimes, yes. In Jordans case...the championships are huge (he was the main guy). In Duncans case, they are huge (he was the main guy). Hakeem, huge. Kobe winning the championship last year as THE man, huge. Lebron has been THE man on this team since day one...and still (IMO), we havent seen his best yet. But I dont think we can use championships to question where he stands in the ranks of current NBA'rs because youd have a difficult time finding ANYONE who believes the Lakers would not have won those titles with Shaq....if Lebron was playing with him. The entire Lakers team was so good together.
Malone should not be penalized for his greatness because he played alongside a superstar, especially not over Duncan, who won with not just one star, but an all-star backcourt (Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli). When you win a championship and you're playing at an MVP level, it doesn't matter how your help came. Whether you played alongside two all-stas or one superstar, help is help, and it takes help to when a ring. Considering Malone was playing at the highest level possible, the Jazz was his team just as much as it was Stockton's team and just as much as the Spurs are Duncan's team. When the Bulls won that second threepeat, some considered Scottie Pippen the 2nd best player in the league behind Jordan. Should Jordan be penalized for that? Sure, it was clearly Jordan's team, but if Jordan was in Kobe's shoes and he had to play behind a personality like Shaq, then it woulda been Shaq's team just as much as it would've been Jordan's team, because that's the type of presence Shaq was in his prime...So no, Kobe should not get penalized for being a focal point on a great basketball team because the team wasn't considered only his...A champion playing at the highest level is a champion playing at the highest level...doesnt matter if your help comes from the greatest bench ever and two all-stars or if it comes from playing alongside another superstar hall-of-famer and a bunch of decent role players...either way, you're winning a ring playing at the highest level, and Kobe was able to do that while LeBron is still not. and no way Lakers threepeat with LeBron replacing Kobe. You know why? 1.Shaq dominates the paint and clogs up the interior. LeBron scores a bulk of his points in the paint. It wouldn't work nearly as good or wouldn't be close to as effective...A big reason Shaq was able to peak alongside Kobe was because Kobe was a deadly shooter from outside, so they had the vital inside-outside game, the deadly 1-2 punch. LeBron also usually needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and we all know how much of the offense Shaq demanded be ran through him. 2.Lakers would not have advanced in some of those though 7 game series' against the Kings and Blazers had it not been for Kobe's clutch play down the stretch, closing vital games that coulda easily went the other way. We all know LeBron doesn't have the clutch factor that Kobe has, that's not even argued by the LeBron faithful, so what makes you so sure LeBron, especially LeBron in his early 20s, would have been able to close out those 4th quarters and win games for the Lakers on a regular basis with his clutch play? It wasnt a breeze for the Lakers to threepeat...Every last factor was vital and Kobe, along with Shaq, were both the focal point of that era...I don't even like discussing ifs and buts...lets just see what LeBron does...If he wins it this year, I'll shut up...if not, I'll definitely be able to say "I told you so" to all the LeBron fanboys out there. Lets take the wait and see approach...after all, we only have 2 months left for the results.
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(http://radiobigboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/kobe-bryant-3.jpg)
Why did he do this?
this can easily be a photoshop
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
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(http://radiobigboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/kobe-bryant-3.jpg)
Why did he do this?
this can easily be a photoshop
Except it isnt.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
as long as Kobe makes him that good. :D
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that be crazy if bynum ever became better that howard
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
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^he doesn't need it, he's just physically dominate over all.
there will NEVER be a point in Dwight's career where a GM would take Bynum over him.
unless Dwight tragically loses a leg in a freak accident & attempts to play with a prosthetic.
although, i guess you could say Bynum already plays with one now. :D
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
Its always the same story NIK...potential, blah blah blah
Fact: Bynum is NOT ever goiung to be as athletic as Dwight...and most likely will never play a whole season. He DOES have potential to be better than he currently is, but he will never be a Dwight Howard .
You can't teach Howards athleticism, physique, and desire. Ask any coach or GM, and they will take the young player with the physical tools; the rest can be developed.
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Seriously I can't believe all that time has gone by and everything is exactly the same around here, nik- and basketball-wise. Shit is ill.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
Its always the same story NIK...potential, blah blah blah
Fact: Bynum is NOT ever goiung to be as athletic as Dwight...and most likely will never play a whole season. He DOES have potential to be better than he currently is, but he will never be a Dwight Howard .
You can't teach Howards athleticism, physique, and desire. Ask any coach or GM, and they will take the young player with the physical tools; the rest can be developed.
If Bynum continues developing and ever becomes a leader on a team, he has the physical tools and the skill set to be a very rare TRUE center with superstar status (pretty much a dying breed in the NBA)...Not saying it's inevitable, cuz he has been having trouble staying healthy and does need to bring the effort on a more consistent basis, but he definitely has the ceiling and if he reaches it, he could be scary..But this really has nothing to do with the topic, some of you are just trying really hard to discredit me by bringing up and exaggerating stupid shit from the past instead of actually arguing the points...PeACe
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
he leads the league in rebounds every year....bynum will never do that
Howard also just scored 29 points and grabbed 17 boards tonight in a playoff game....Bynum will never do that
howard had 7 blocks in one half in a playoff game against charlotte...bynum will never do that
oh...and he just received 3 MVP votes....3 more than Kobe and Bum-knee combined this year lol
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
he leads the league in rebounds every year....bynum will never do that
Howard also just scored 29 points and grabbed 17 boards tonight in a playoff game....Bynum will never do that
howard had 7 blocks in one half in a playoff game against charlotte...bynum will never do that
oh...and he just received 3 MVP votes....3 more than Kobe and Bum-knee combined this year lol
yes i saw the game, lol what is the chances that the day im hating on howard he has a monster game.
kobe never gets the mvp, the time when steve nash won back 2 back mvps, those mvps were kobes, really no1 can deny that.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
he leads the league in rebounds every year....bynum will never do that
Howard also just scored 29 points and grabbed 17 boards tonight in a playoff game....Bynum will never do that
howard had 7 blocks in one half in a playoff game against charlotte...bynum will never do that
oh...and he just received 3 MVP votes....3 more than Kobe and Bum-knee combined this year lol
yes i saw the game, lol what is the chances that the day im hating on howard he has a monster game.
kobe never gets the mvp, the time when steve nash won back 2 back mvps, those mvps were kobes, really no1 can deny that.
I think we all know that if your team doesn't have a great record, you are not winning the MVP, so your argument doesn't really work. Maybe Shaq could've had one of those too, as well as Lebron when he put up 31, 7, and 7. But I actually think Nash deserved one of those for sure...watch him play even today and tell me he isn't amazing. his shooting precentages are INCREDIBLE (field goals, ft's and three's) he controls the game completely, and puts up sick numbers in like 30 min a game. It baffles me how people try to discredit Nash. NOw that D'Antoni is gone, we can see it was actually Nash who made the system work...
AND Bynum sucks compared to Howard. Dwight could retire right now, and Bynum could play another 10 years, and it will still be Howard> Bynum
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the chances are pretty good considering he has a monster game all the time lol.
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
he leads the league in rebounds every year....bynum will never do that
Howard also just scored 29 points and grabbed 17 boards tonight in a playoff game....Bynum will never do that
howard had 7 blocks in one half in a playoff game against charlotte...bynum will never do that
oh...and he just received 3 MVP votes....3 more than Kobe and Bum-knee combined this year lol
Bynum gets a gang of rebounds for having to share the boards with Odom and Gasol, who are both double-figure rebounders. Who's to say how many rebounds he'd get playing as the primary big? he's collected double digit rebounds in 6 of his 8 playoff games so far this year, including 14 rebounds in his last game. Not to mention, Bynum is a better scorer than Dwight, he actually has post moves and can be depended on with the ball in his hands. Also, a much better free-throw shooter (which is part of being a better scorer). Bynum hit 40 way before Dwight and there's a reason for that...Basically, judging what Bynum has the ceiling to do as he's still growing, when he already puts up beastly numbers as a 4th option, is pretty stupid. But again, that is not what this topic is about, so take that elsewhere or start a new topic...PeACe
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every.
single.
GM.
& their mother.
would.
take.
my.
man.
DWIGHT HOWARD.
over.
Andrew Bynum.
end.
of.
story.
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Cleveland absolutely fucked the Celtics in Boston. So "FINISHED"!!
Plus the Suns might sweep the Spurs.
How you doin' Nik? :D
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Plus the Suns might sweep the Spurs.
WTF happened here?!?! SHIT!! That Slovenian fucker killed us. Well...somebody will eventually come back from being down 3-0. Why not us? lol.
The Suns look pretty tough. They should take this series....and will give the Lakers fits with the pick n roll. The Lakers dont defend the three well or the pick n roll. The Lakers size though will be tough for the Suns to deal with.
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Plus the Suns might sweep the Spurs.
WTF happened here?!?! SHIT!! That Slovenian fucker killed us. Well...somebody will eventually come back from being down 3-0. Why not us? lol.
The Suns look pretty tough. They should take this series....and will give the Lakers fits with the pick n roll. The Lakers dont defend the three well or the pick n roll. The Lakers size though will be tough for the Suns to deal with.
Yeah I thought you guys had that series, I knew the Suns would be tough but I can't believe SA might get swept.
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Plus the Suns might sweep the Spurs.
WTF happened here?!?! SHIT!! That Slovenian fucker killed us. Well...somebody will eventually come back from being down 3-0. Why not us? lol.
The Suns look pretty tough. They should take this series....and will give the Lakers fits with the pick n roll. The Lakers dont defend the three well or the pick n roll. The Lakers size though will be tough for the Suns to deal with.
Yeah I thought you guys had that series, I knew the Suns would be tough but I can't believe SA might get swept.
yeah. I dont THINK we will get swept. We should win game 4 tonight in SA (but we should have been able to win game 3...so who knows).
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Holy mother of God, the Suns actually really swept the Spurs. How little fucking sense does that make?
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i don't know, brah.
i could of sworn you said Pau was better than Dwight & Andrew Bynum was going to be the next big thing & you said Odom was incredible & it's no secret that Ron Artest could be the best defender in Basketball.
the Lakers could make the Playoffs without Kobe, even in the West.
the Cavs wouldn't make the Playoffs without LeBron, in the East.
he says byum > howard too lol
Howard is currently better, of course, but Bynum has the tools and potential to be the better and more complete center.
than Josh Howard yes
Dwight no
dwight has no offensive game at all.
AND HE STILL SCORES MORE THAN BYNUM WHILE DESTROYING HIM IN ALL OTHER AREAS
dwights the superstar of the team, and ive seen plenty of magic games where he only scored 4-6 points
he leads the league in rebounds every year....bynum will never do that
Howard also just scored 29 points and grabbed 17 boards tonight in a playoff game....Bynum will never do that
howard had 7 blocks in one half in a playoff game against charlotte...bynum will never do that
oh...and he just received 3 MVP votes....3 more than Kobe and Bum-knee combined this year lol
yes i saw the game, lol what is the chances that the day im hating on howard he has a monster game.
kobe never gets the mvp, the time when steve nash won back 2 back mvps, those mvps were kobes, really no1 can deny that.
didn't Nash's teams advance farther in the playoffs than Kobe's those 2 years?
as for regular season stats Kobe dropped more points but Nash's teams won more games...and the media loves the guy who's team wins games
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Holy mother of God, the Suns actually really swept the Spurs. How little fucking sense does that make?
i am shocked as well.....as a guy who loves to see players get more stats i wanted to see Duncan get a few more playoff games to climb the ranks lol
oh well....the Suns get rest now
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Kobe "hey phil, i got westbrook"
Lebron "well if my coaches and guys want me to defend rando ill do it"
LMAO @ lebrons ledership :laugh:
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^yeah, that's why basically Mike Brown even admits that LeBron coaches the team. ;)
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Kobe "hey phil, i got westbrook"
Lebron "well if my coaches and guys want me to defend rando ill do it"
LMAO @ lebrons ledership :laugh:
who the fuck is Rando? lol
And you know how u can tell when somebody is a good leader? When they are consistently referred to as a good leader. Lebron is pretty much always looked at as a good leader (except by Kobe fans...ironically lol). Good leaders are seen as good leaders, regardless of how things are going. Jordan...great leader. Magic....great leader. Bird....great leader. Etc...etc. Have you noticed that Kobe is only seen as a good leader, when the team is playing very well? When they struggle, or arent in top form...people start to question his abilities as a leader. When a player is a good leader....its pretty rare they are ever really questioned as such. The Suns sucked last year...and people still referred to Nash as a great leader. lol
I know you Kobe fans will say..."the media and the fans are just haters!!" lol.
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
Im not a fan of Kobe either man lol But Shannon Brown? That might be a bit much lol.
Here's how I see things. There are different types of leaders...and different ways that players can be motivators. One way I DO see Kobe being a good leader...is in his work ethic. I think Kobe does put in the work, and he does have the drive to be great. That can rub off on other players sometimes. I could use Tim Duncan as an example too. When people think of great leaders in basketball history, they dont typically shout out TIM DUNCAN! But he is a leader as well. His way of leading is by example. He puts the team ahead of his own success always. Stats mean nothing without winning...etc...etc.
With that being said, there is a certain vibe you get from NATURAL leaders. When you watch a group (sports...or ANY group), you can look at them and say..."THAT guy is the leader". You dont really feel that way just by watching Duncan OR Kobe. They are leaders because they have to be...by default I guess. You did get that feeling when you saw Jordan...or Magic...or Lebron now. Sometimes it isnt even the superstar. With the Spurs back in the day...you would see Avery Johnson on the floor...and immediately could tell he was a leader....but not as talented as the superstars. But THAT is the reason people build up Lebron so much, over Kobe. Because you get that same feeling watching him that you got watching Magic or Jordan.
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Shannon Brown was just overexaggeration of how much of a leader Kobe is not lol.
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Shannon Brown was just overexaggeration of how much of a leader Kobe is not lol.
Everyone knows Kobe was a prick back in the day, but he's clearly a good leader now. Even Lebron admitted that playing alongside Kobe was what made him push his game to the next level, if that's not leadership then what is?
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Shannon Brown was just overexaggeration of how much of a leader Kobe is not lol.
Everyone knows Kobe was a prick back in the day, but he's clearly a good leader now. Even Lebron admitted that playing alongside Kobe was what made him push his game to the next level, if that's not leadership then what is?
Playing with a great player always makes u elevate your game. As long as you are competitive. That doesnt make the other player a leader lol. When I used to play ball...one of the big no no's was runnin against players that were worse then you. it naturally makes your game start to get worse. You always wanna play with people on your level or better.
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Shannon Brown was just overexaggeration of how much of a leader Kobe is not lol.
Everyone knows Kobe was a prick back in the day, but he's clearly a good leader now. Even Lebron admitted that playing alongside Kobe was what made him push his game to the next level, if that's not leadership then what is?
Playing with a great player always makes u elevate your game. As long as you are competitive. That doesnt make the other player a leader lol. When I used to play ball...one of the big no no's was runnin against players that were worse then you. it naturally makes your game start to get worse. You always wanna play with people on your level or better.
Yeah but they played on the US team together and everyone on there stated that Kobe was a great leader. Again, I'm not saying he's been a golden boy his whole career, but to plainly just say he's not a leader when numerous teammates have spoken in his favor is ridiculous.
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i don't put much stock into Superstars just sucking each other.
you never hear the games best talking shit about each other, just showering the other with compliments.
Kobe will say LeBron is the best in the league & LeBron will say Kobe is the best in the league; neither want to be viewed as that conceited fuck.
not saying LeBron was necessarily lying that Kobe was a "good leader"; maybe we're wrong, but i just personally don't believe LeBron is sincere about it.
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i don't put much stock into Superstars just sucking each other.
you never hear the games best talking shit about each other, just showering the other with compliments.
Kobe will say LeBron is the best in the league & LeBron will say Kobe is the best in the league; neither want to be viewed as that conceited fuck.
not saying LeBron was necessarily lying that Kobe was a "good leader"; maybe we're wrong, but i just personally don't believe LeBron is sincere about it.
exactly. Its the same way a head coach typically wont bash an opposing team. They give you the same bullshit responses..."theyre a great team", "they play with a ton of heart", "we will have to play great to beat them"....lol No star is typically going to come out and say another star sucks as a leader...no matter what they really think.
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^the NBA should be like that; shit talking publicly & stuff.
it would be good for the sport & make KILLER rivalries & more Piston/Pacer type brawls lol.
but then somebody would have to be the "bad guy" in the media & no star wants to play that part; even though LeBron could make a cool bad guy lol.
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^the NBA should be like that; shit talking publicly & stuff.
it would be good for the sport & make KILLER rivalries & more Piston/Pacer type brawls lol.
but then somebody would have to be the "bad guy" in the media & no star wants to play that part; even though LeBron could make a cool bad guy lol.
They should not only allow shit talking to the media...they should encourage it...and even require it lol.
how funny would it be if Lebron sat down with the media after a win wearing the Kobe Pilgrim suit!!
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LOL.
that would be epic.
especially considering all these guys come up as kids on the blacktops talking shit all day long, the NBA should stick to the roots of the game. :P
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goodbye to them wack ass crabs lol i mean cavs
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goodbye to them wack ass crabs lol i mean cavs
if boston wins this series there's no doubt they're going to get shit on by Orlando
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talk about them bein finished.....damn they died tonight...lol
and muffuccaz is sayin lebron>>>>kobe and muffuccin jordan
howard>>>>>james
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LeBron really sucked today but let's not forget what a loser Kobe was in his last series against the Celtics
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aite but when you make james up to be the god....their shootin was horrible...and now they goin back to boston...lol
well see
LeBron really sucked today but let's not forget what a loser Kobe was in his last series against the Celtics
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Wow...Lebron was HORRIBLE. Sure his stat line, 15 points, 7 assists, 6 boards was decent, but this was the biggest game of the year, and he seemed distant. WTF?
Kinda reminds me of Kobe vs the Suns in that game 7 a few years ago, or Kobe bs the Celtics in game six of the finals.
Like Barkley said, MJ woulda NEVER put in a showing like that.
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Lebron's showing was the worst, but Jamison fucking sucks at defense like everyone said when they traded for him, and Mo Williams has gotta be the worst so called second option in the league. All he does is disappear when it matters.
Damn, Ray Allen was money last night too!
WTF will happen in game 6?
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
magic and bird were the same way ::)
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who said he was better than Jordan?
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analysts and others have asked will he be better and some have said he is better when jordan was his age
you know cham....muffuccaz have called him the best player in the world...but on a bad night they change it up and say differently
does the best player in the world play as wack as that?
losin is 1 thing, but losin that bad is another
who said he was better than Jordan?
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LeBron really sucked today but let's not forget what a loser Kobe was in his last series against the Celtics
kobe wasnt making history by shooting 10% the 1st 4 games of the series like lebron
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Kinda reminds me of Kobe vs the Suns in that game 7 a few years ago,
did lebron score 20 + in the 1st half like kobe?......got double and tripled team, zoned up in the 2nd half and passed it to his bum teammates who couldnt do shit...lol @ believing barkley, fucking sheep
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dont say i didn't warn ya.........................................
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
Im not a fan of Kobe either man lol But Shannon Brown? That might be a bit much lol.
Here's how I see things. There are different types of leaders...and different ways that players can be motivators. One way I DO see Kobe being a good leader...is in his work ethic. I think Kobe does put in the work, and he does have the drive to be great. That can rub off on other players sometimes. I could use Tim Duncan as an example too. When people think of great leaders in basketball history, they dont typically shout out TIM DUNCAN! But he is a leader as well. His way of leading is by example. He puts the team ahead of his own success always. Stats mean nothing without winning...etc...etc.
With that being said, there is a certain vibe you get from NATURAL leaders. When you watch a group (sports...or ANY group), you can look at them and say..."THAT guy is the leader". You dont really feel that way just by watching Duncan OR Kobe. They are leaders because they have to be...by default I guess. You did get that feeling when you saw Jordan...or Magic...or Lebron now. Sometimes it isnt even the superstar. With the Spurs back in the day...you would see Avery Johnson on the floor...and immediately could tell he was a leader....but not as talented as the superstars. But THAT is the reason people build up Lebron so much, over Kobe. Because you get that same feeling watching him that you got watching Magic or Jordan.
That is actually the exact opposite of what it is. Kobe is naturally a true leader..the kinda competitor who puts winning ahead of everything else, in the same class as Jordan and Magic, while LeBron is more of a talent who doesn't have the winners mentality and doesnt have the "it" factor that puts him over the top with the great leaders who have led their teams to success...anyone catch LeBron at the podium after the game last night? Dude is so nonchalant, no true anger or fury in his voice after a loss like that/ Definitely not a leader on the level of a Magic or Jordan...OR Kobe.
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
magic and bird were the same way ::)
are you fucc'n crazy when the lakers got swept by the 76ers magic went to they loccer room and congratulated them, so you can't say that yell
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Kinda reminds me of Kobe vs the Suns in that game 7 a few years ago,
did lebron score 20 + in the 1st half like kobe?......got double and tripled team, zoned up in the 2nd half and passed it to his bum teammates who couldnt do shit...lol @ believing barkley, fucking sheep
exactly and how could anyone believe barkley on a whole scale haha,that guy is on the show for comic relief they know he's a country hicc blacc man and they make sure he's the butt of the jokes,cause his dumb ass accepts it, and all i can say now is get ready for david stern to dump his son labron and adopt kevin durant now hahaha watch yell
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
right.
because you're in the middle of Lakers practices & know exactly what type of leader he is, outside of what TV allows you to see.
this nigga...
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
right.
because you're in the middle of Lakers practices & know exactly what type of leader he is, outside of what TV allows you to see.
this nigga...
what the hell are you trying to say? that you have to practice with a player to judge his leadership abilities? then you just contradicted yourself, smart guy...there are tons of undisputed great leaders in the history of this game, and kobe is clearly one of them. don't wanna take my word for it? ask anyone who's ever played with been in the presence of the guy...PeACe
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
right.
because you're in the middle of Lakers practices & know exactly what type of leader he is, outside of what TV allows you to see.
this nigga...
what the hell are you trying to say? that you have to practice with a player to judge his leadership abilities? then you just contradicted yourself, smart guy...there are tons of undisputed great leaders in the history of this game, and kobe is clearly one of them. don't wanna take my word for it? ask anyone who's ever played with been in the presence of the guy...PeACe
because you said it like you knew for a fact, first hand that Kobe is a phenominal leader; you don't know.
"clearly". what is so clear about it?
i took an interviewing course, just a small time thing; how to take one, how to give one, etc.
the FIRST thing they teach you when taking one is to not talk shit; "unless you're Mike Tyson, don't belittle other teams or players".
i can only IMAGINE what they tell these guys as they come into the league; you really think that when they pull Derek Fisher aside for a few questions & ask about Kobe he's going to go against the fan base, the team? obviously not, he's just going to say, "oh, he's the best on the planet, great leader, great this, great that".
he would never say, "well...he could be a better leader", it's just common sense that it's something you DON'T say lol.
LeBron wouldn't go and look like a total asshole & say, "when we were on the USA team, Kobe was such a bitch".
again, i'm not saying Kobe is a terrible leader, i just wouldn't be surprised if he was just an average ass leader.
if you're considered one of, if not, the best player on the planet & you're NOT the leader of your team, that just looks bad; so obviously he will be built up to be the leader; like Daygo said, he was given it, whether he wants it or not.
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goodbye to them wack ass crabs lol i mean cavs
if boston wins this series there's no doubt they're going to get shit on by Orlando
i can care less about orlando im a laker 4 life
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LeBron really sucked today but let's not forget what a loser Kobe was in his last series against the Celtics
yea but kobe was a 3 time champion at that time, he gets a pass but lebum hasnt done shyt kinda like dan marino haha...
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
i second this motion, stick to chamillionaire lmao......
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Kobe is not a leader.
Kobe just happens to be the best player on the best team; a team that would be playoff bound without Kobe; basically the Yankees of the NBA.
i'm sure Shannon Brown is more of a leader than Kobe, but how would that look? it's all how the media spins it.
you really don't deserve to post here man...LOL
i second this motion, stick to chamillionaire lmao......
oh, if you say so, it must be true.
you seem like one of the more intelligent people around here.
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
negative my man, the best in the world don't quit the way he did on his team in just 1 game...he's an amazing talent individually no doubt but he def aint a leader & certainly has no killa instinct...kobe is about to be a 5 time champ not a 2 time wannabe mvp chump like lebum, as far as the mvp trophy he can continue winning 4 more if he likes as he is younger than kobe & kobe has a lotta mileage in the last 3-4 years in the playoffs. lebum can win the mvp trophy, kobe can win the real trophy haha
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
negative my man, the best in the world don't quit the way he did on his team in just 1 game...he's an amazing talent individually no doubt but he def aint a leader & certainly has no killa instinct...kobe is about to be a 5 time champ not a 2 time wannabe mvp chump like lebum, as far as the mvp trophy he can continue winning 4 more if he likes as he is younger than kobe & kobe has a lotta mileage in the last 3-4 years in the playoffs. lebum can win the mvp trophy, kobe can win the real trophy haha
Kobe has been quitting on his team before... back when he was a better player even. LeBron also never had a decent coach. So that's that.
Next thing you know he has a monster game today and everything is gravy again. Mike Brown's stupid ass should stop giving Shaq so much playing time and put James back to guarding Pierce.
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
negative my man, the best in the world don't quit the way he did on his team in just 1 game...he's an amazing talent individually no doubt but he def aint a leader & certainly has no killa instinct...kobe is about to be a 5 time champ not a 2 time wannabe mvp chump like lebum, as far as the mvp trophy he can continue winning 4 more if he likes as he is younger than kobe & kobe has a lotta mileage in the last 3-4 years in the playoffs. lebum can win the mvp trophy, kobe can win the real trophy haha
Kobe has been quitting on his team before... back when he was a better player even. LeBron also never had a decent coach. So that's that.
Next thing you know he has a monster game today and everything is gravy again. Mike Brown's stupid ass should stop giving Shaq so much playing time and put James back to guarding Pierce.
at the end of the day the players gotta deliver on the court, even when kobe had a bad game he delivered he never quitted like that. why u think he has 4 rings, coaches do play a part in it yes but the player plays the game....the end results tell you everything homie: kobe 4 lebum 0....yes lebum might have a monster game tonight but if his teamates dont play then the celts will win even with bron's big game...
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dj mbenga 1 - lebron 0
adam morrison 1 - lebron 0
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dj mbenga 1 - lebron 0
adam morrison 1 - lebron 0
Lmao, Now That's Gangsta ;)
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Any of you guys seriously doubt that LeBron would have a bunch of rings if he were on the teams Kobe was on?
THE LIST OF KOBE NO-SHOWS
• Game 6 of the 2003 Spurs series: Lakers eliminated in a 32-point blowout (Kobe scores 20, commits seven turnovers).
• Game 3, Game 4 and Game 5 of the 2004 Finals: Kobe went 4-for-13, 8-for-25 and 7-for-21 as the Pistons finished off L.A.
• Game 7 of the 2006 Suns series: Lakers lose by 32, Kobe mysteriously stops shooting in the second half in a rarely seen Eff You To My Teammates performance.
• Game 4 of the 2008 Finals: Boston rallies back from 25 down to win in L.A. Kobe finishes 6-for-19.
• Game 6 of the 2008 Finals: Boston wins the title with a 39-point blowout, Kobe goes 7-for-22.
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Any of you guys seriously doubt that LeBron would have a bunch of rings if he were on the teams Kobe was on?
THE LIST OF KOBE NO-SHOWS
• Game 6 of the 2003 Spurs series: Lakers eliminated in a 32-point blowout (Kobe scores 20, commits seven turnovers).
• Game 3, Game 4 and Game 5 of the 2004 Finals: Kobe went 4-for-13, 8-for-25 and 7-for-21 as the Pistons finished off L.A.
• Game 7 of the 2006 Suns series: Lakers lose by 32, Kobe mysteriously stops shooting in the second half in a rarely seen Eff You To My Teammates performance.
• Game 4 of the 2008 Finals: Boston rallies back from 25 down to win in L.A. Kobe finishes 6-for-19.
• Game 6 of the 2008 Finals: Boston wins the title with a 39-point blowout, Kobe goes 7-for-22.
like i said at the end of the day results speak volumes son, KOBE 4 LEBUM 0......your argument falls short no matter what you dig up...also like i said before lebron is not a leader & has no killa instinct, he might have 1 ring if any if he had a team like kobe's but thats pushing it...
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Nothing falls short... you're just a Laker-Fan and biased as fuck.
The 2001 Laker-Team was probably the best team ever... you can replace Kobe with any talented SG and they still win multiple titles during that time. Even Vince could have pulled it off, lmao!
As for the Cavs, they are not nearly as talented as any team Kobe won a playoff series with. Not even gonna talk about the difference between Phil Jackson and Mike Brown.
But if you just choose to over-simplify it by saying "Kobe has more rings", then go ahead nigga. Just keep in mind that all I'm saying is true also.
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Nothing falls short... you're just a Laker-Fan and biased as fuck.
The 2001 Laker-Team was probably the best team ever... you can replace Kobe with any talented SG and they still win multiple titles during that time. Even Vince could have pulled it off, lmao!
As for the Cavs, they are not nearly as talented as any team Kobe won a playoff series with. Not even gonna talk about the difference between Phil Jackson and Mike Brown.
But if you just choose to over-simplify it by saying "Kobe has more rings", then go ahead nigga. Just keep in mind that all I'm saying is true also.
im glad u finally got the picture nigga :) some of what you said is true though yea...
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Wow, what a game this is gonna be tonight! I'm still saying the Cavs win this one...Lebron will beast..I can't believe he'd go out like that in an elimination game. Remember last time they lost to Boston? 47 in game 7
And Mike Brown, you f'n suck. Swithing up your rotations, overreacting to Rondo, not playing Hickson....Brown is a good defensive coach, but is horrible at making adjustments.
Jamison has been horrible, Mo Williams is a joke, and Lebron has been pretty much average the whole playoffs.
Yet, I still think Cavs take this one and force a game 7. Still, whoever faces the Magic in the East final is gonna get killed anyway
Ad why do Kobe fans use rings won when talking about Kobe over MJ, but disregard that same notion when talking about MJ over Kobe, or even DUNCAN over Kobe?
Some of ya'll amuse the hell out of me.
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Nothing falls short... you're just a Laker-Fan and biased as fuck.
The 2001 Laker-Team was probably the best team ever... you can replace Kobe with any talented SG and they still win multiple titles during that time. Even Vince could have pulled it off, lmao!
As for the Cavs, they are not nearly as talented as any team Kobe won a playoff series with. Not even gonna talk about the difference between Phil Jackson and Mike Brown.
But if you just choose to over-simplify it by saying "Kobe has more rings", then go ahead nigga. Just keep in mind that all I'm saying is true also.
im glad u finally got the picture nigga :) some of what you said is true though yea...
the lakers could of won with any talented big man....kobe got it done with gasol whos not half the player shaq was and shaq needed a kobe tipe of player in wade to win his 4th ring, shaq needed more help, he had vets who have won and kobe got it done with guys who where learning to win like ariza pau and lamar, and bynum,
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i don't know if Lakers fans are bigger Laker stans or LeBron haters these days. :laugh:
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada...as a matter of fact lebum didnt show up twice enuff said fool.... ;) ohhh yes kobe is 10 times better than lebum 94-85
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada
i think you completely just dodged what i said. :laugh:
Jamison: 2-10
West: 0-2
Big Z: 1-2
Varejao: 2-7
Mo Williams kind of came through in the first half & Shaq played decent.
but all in all, ZERO HELP.
LeBron, Triple-Double; 9 TO's, weak, but nobody was helping him; anybody whose not a LeBron hater can admit that; so naturally, i don't expect you to understand, because you're narrow-minded. :D
you can't just look at the score & determine whose a good player lmfao.
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Next thing you know he has a monster game today and everything is gravy again.
LOL...these guys just don't understand the LeBron factor.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada
i think you completely just dodged what i said. :laugh:
Jamison: 2-10
West: 0-2
Big Z: 1-2
Varejao: 2-7
Mo Williams kind of came through in the first half & Shaq played decent.
but all in all, ZERO HELP.
LeBron, Triple-Double; 9 TO's, weak, but nobody was helping him; anybody whose not a LeBron hater can admit that; so naturally, i don't expect you to understand, because you're narrow-minded. :D
you can't just look at the score & determine whose a good player lmfao.
i tell u wat kid, i do give u credit cause even when u fighting a lost battle at least u aint bowin down. yes i agree with you about the rest of the team not helping him they a bunch of bums, the man has amazing talent son, he deserves better & will get it somewhere else but YOU CAN'T COMPARE HIS GAME TO KOBE'S GAME end of story....
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Why is everyone saying Lebron is going to NY?
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Nothing falls short... you're just a Laker-Fan and biased as fuck.
The 2001 Laker-Team was probably the best team ever... you can replace Kobe with any talented SG and they still win multiple titles during that time. Even Vince could have pulled it off, lmao!
As for the Cavs, they are not nearly as talented as any team Kobe won a playoff series with. Not even gonna talk about the difference between Phil Jackson and Mike Brown.
But if you just choose to over-simplify it by saying "Kobe has more rings", then go ahead nigga. Just keep in mind that all I'm saying is true also.
right...even Vince coulda pulled it off! cuz the Lakers won so easily, right? they didn't endure any 7 game series's or long fought out battles (Kings, Blazers, etc) that were won down the stretch with Kobe's clutch performances...LOL.
the Laker haters who try to discredit Kobe never seem to amaze with the shit they dig up.
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Why is everyone saying Lebron is going to NY?
because dumbass Knick fans hyped it up like it was a given if they lost.
i'm talking to people right now about it, they are so thrilled like it's 110% chance he's coming to the Knicks.
LeBron will not sign a contract until the last possible day; he's an amazing, top of the line talent, but it's no secret he wants the spotlight.
there has never been hype like this for a free agent ever, you already know he's about to milk it.
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
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Ad why do Kobe fans use rings won when talking about Kobe over MJ, but disregard that same notion when talking about MJ over Kobe, or even DUNCAN over Kobe?
Some of ya'll amuse the hell out of me.
well,maybe because kobe still has a shot at winning 6+ rings by the time his career is done.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
either way i smell a rematch with either the magic or boston.....
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada
i think you completely just dodged what i said. :laugh:
Jamison: 2-10
West: 0-2
Big Z: 1-2
Varejao: 2-7
Mo Williams kind of came through in the first half & Shaq played decent.
but all in all, ZERO HELP.
LeBron, Triple-Double; 9 TO's, weak, but nobody was helping him; anybody whose not a LeBron hater can admit that; so naturally, i don't expect you to understand, because you're narrow-minded. :D
you can't just look at the score & determine whose a good player lmfao.
LeBron is a regular season success story who doesn't know when to bring his A-Game...Always has been, and possibly always will be (unless he is capable of developing that killer instinct and getting a heart transplant lol). Really, though, can you say I didn't warn you? Cleveland has no excuse. They came in as the heavy favorites, with homecourt advantage. They came in with the best record in the league AND the best home record, as well...But there is one thing they were missing, and thats leadership. LeBron fell apart during the most vital time in his career...Honestly, the guy might need to be a second option to win it all, and that's scary to say for a guy who's that talented.
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
no one's discrediting lebum, but the facts & results are just that........
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
But what happened to LeBron "making all his teammates better"? That was a common notion going into this series...Coming out of the series, looks like their "leader" had them all playing WORSE. Bad look for LeBron, no way around it.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
So you're telling me that after the second straight Championship those Shaq Lakers weren't expected to win? And why are you so down on Shaq? The guy was far and away the best player in the league those three years and then some. Imagine the rings on Jordan's hands if he got to play in the 80s with Kareem then did what he did in the 90s?
Kobe may be the most valuable player in the league until James shows he can win it all, but at the very least even you have to admit that between Shaq was the most dominant big man in basketball and a worthy MVP. The difference between Kobe and Jordan was the only time Jordan got to play with another MVP caliber baller was at the Olympics or at night on the road when he was lonely and porn was available.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada
i think you completely just dodged what i said. :laugh:
Jamison: 2-10
West: 0-2
Big Z: 1-2
Varejao: 2-7
Mo Williams kind of came through in the first half & Shaq played decent.
but all in all, ZERO HELP.
LeBron, Triple-Double; 9 TO's, weak, but nobody was helping him; anybody whose not a LeBron hater can admit that; so naturally, i don't expect you to understand, because you're narrow-minded. :D
you can't just look at the score & determine whose a good player lmfao.
LeBron is a regular season success story who doesn't know when to bring his A-Game...Always has been, and possibly always will be (unless he is capable of developing that killer instinct and getting a heart transplant lol). Really, though, can you say I didn't warn you? Cleveland has no excuse. They came in as the heavy favorites, with homecourt advantage. They came in with the best record in the league AND the best home record, as well...But there is one thing they were missing, and thats leadership. LeBron fell apart during the most vital time in his career...Honestly, the guy might need to be a second option to win it all, and that's scary to say for a guy who's that talented.
leadership? what do you want LeBron to do? get in his teammates face & yell "HIT THE FUCKING SHOTS, BITCH!"?
i mean, what can you possibly do if they aren't stepping up?
i understand you're use to NBA All-Stars coming off the bench to sub in for elite defenders & have two seven footers, who you consider two of the best big men in the league, but maybe the supporting cast of the Cavs just wasn't as great as we thought.
there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
it has nothing to do with poor leadership, nothing has changed in leadership or gameplan since the first game of the year; shit, since the first game LeBron James has played lol; they just didn't hit shots & couldn't stop the Celtics when they went on runs.
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
dont you get it, muthafucka? in the nba, nothing matters until you win a ring. that is what everyones playing for ....so until LeBron wins a ring, anything he does will seem like NOTHING in comparison ...to Laker fans, at least (who are used to being spoiled with championship caliber teams)
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
So you're telling me that after the second straight Championship those Shaq Lakers weren't expected to win? And why are you so down on Shaq? The guy was far and away the best player in the league those three years and then some. Imagine the rings on Jordan's hands if he got to play in the 80s with Kareem then did what he did in the 90s?
Kobe may be the most valuable player in the league until James shows he can win it all, but at the very least even you have to admit that between Shaq was the most dominant big man in basketball and a worthy MVP. The difference between Kobe and Jordan was the only time Jordan got to play with another MVP caliber baller was at the Olympics or at night on the road when he was lonely and porn was available.
thats besides the point.. many argue that those Bulls team were much deeper and better than the Laker 3peat teams. regardless, Lakers did win after they won the 2nd straight, so what are you talking about?
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
dont you get it, muthafucka? in the nba, nothing matters until you win a ring. that is what everyones playing for ....so until LeBron wins a ring, anything he does will seem like NOTHING in comparison ...to Laker fans, at least (who are used to being spoiled with championship caliber teams)
about time someone else say it like it is, all these lil kiddies think they know it all lmao....take your loss like a man junior and go play in the sand............ ;)
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Basketball has too many variables that are important to a club's chances of success. One player can't win it all, one player can't be the sole reason the team isn't cutting it. There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter. Too many people's feelings are getting hurt over this Kobe vs Lebron argument, it's pathetic. I'm not talking about here btw, more in general from what I hear.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
i think u need to shut yo mouth rookie, i just proved my point with the cavarettes....u a done dada
i think you completely just dodged what i said. :laugh:
Jamison: 2-10
West: 0-2
Big Z: 1-2
Varejao: 2-7
Mo Williams kind of came through in the first half & Shaq played decent.
but all in all, ZERO HELP.
LeBron, Triple-Double; 9 TO's, weak, but nobody was helping him; anybody whose not a LeBron hater can admit that; so naturally, i don't expect you to understand, because you're narrow-minded. :D
you can't just look at the score & determine whose a good player lmfao.
LeBron is a regular season success story who doesn't know when to bring his A-Game...Always has been, and possibly always will be (unless he is capable of developing that killer instinct and getting a heart transplant lol). Really, though, can you say I didn't warn you? Cleveland has no excuse. They came in as the heavy favorites, with homecourt advantage. They came in with the best record in the league AND the best home record, as well...But there is one thing they were missing, and thats leadership. LeBron fell apart during the most vital time in his career...Honestly, the guy might need to be a second option to win it all, and that's scary to say for a guy who's that talented.
leadership? what do you want LeBron to do? get in his teammates face & yell "HIT THE FUCKING SHOTS, BITCH!"?
i mean, what can you possibly do if they aren't stepping up?
i understand you're use to NBA All-Stars coming off the bench to sub in for elite defenders & have two seven footers, who you consider two of the best big men in the league, but maybe the supporting cast of the Cavs just wasn't as great as we thought.
there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
it has nothing to do with poor leadership, nothing has changed in leadership or gameplan since the first game of the year; shit, since the first game LeBron James has played lol; they just didn't hit shots & couldn't stop the Celtics when they went on runs.
yea...thats exactly what he should do. Lebron is not a winner and he doesn't supply his cast with motivation, nor with a winners mentality. he obviously doesnt have them breathing, eating, sleeping victory, the way the greats do. did you catch him on the podium after they lost game 5? no true anger, whatsover. That will not get it done, and it will not get your cast to step up either...I wouldnt be surprisded if they all got great sleep that night. You'll never see that with a Laker team that has Kobe on it..even when the Lakers had Smush, Kwame, and Luke as starters, Kobe still had them competeing and playing at their highest capable level, playing to win, and even overachieving at points....THAT is the difference.
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Argueing with elior about kobe and lebron is pointlesss why even bother.Dont you get that whatever benefits his arguement he switches to?When kobe loses its because his team let him down,when lebron loses its because he let his team down.Elior is a joke and his obsession with kobe is creepy.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
So you're telling me that after the second straight Championship those Shaq Lakers weren't expected to win? And why are you so down on Shaq? The guy was far and away the best player in the league those three years and then some. Imagine the rings on Jordan's hands if he got to play in the 80s with Kareem then did what he did in the 90s?
Kobe may be the most valuable player in the league until James shows he can win it all, but at the very least even you have to admit that between Shaq was the most dominant big man in basketball and a worthy MVP. The difference between Kobe and Jordan was the only time Jordan got to play with another MVP caliber baller was at the Olympics or at night on the road when he was lonely and porn was available.
thats besides the point.. many argue that those Bulls team were much deeper and better than the Laker 3peat teams. regardless, Lakers did win after they won the 2nd straight, so what are you talking about?
The 90s Bulls teams were. The 80s Bulls teams had Jordan and me, and they still made huge runs. Imagine Jordan and Kareem in the 80s. The 90s Bulls look a lot more like the current Lakers; an all around deep team with one major star. The 3 peat Lakers were two major stars with one being the far and away best big man in the league those 3 years.
And I know they did win the third one. You said the Lakers teams that Kobe was on when he won his rings and you said it in plural weren't expected to win. When in truth they were expected to win it all the second Shaq was signed.
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damn Elior is sucking kobes dick harder then ever
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there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
exactly..and lebron is known for folding under pressure, while kobe's known for steppin it up. point proven
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
dont you get it, muthafucka? in the nba, nothing matters until you win a ring. that is what everyones playing for ....so until LeBron wins a ring, anything he does will seem like NOTHING in comparison ...to Laker fans, at least (who are used to being spoiled with championship caliber teams)
i guess i don't get it because you're so quick to knock down other players with rings; anything that will make Kobe look like the best player ever lol.
unless you admit Bill Russell is the greatest player ever, i can't listen to it lol.
people have no problem saying Karl Malone was one of the greats, but now LeBron can't win one (& his career is far from over) & you're ready to sign him off as some "average" player lol.
it's easily, by far, the most RETARDED logic i've ever heard to compare individual players & make the standards something that is 110% team related.
basically, going by your logic, i can just say, look at when they don't have major support, like Kobe those two Shaq-less/Pau-less years & how he couldn't do shit & LeBron's been running shit since '07 by himself.
LeBron James is better than D-Wade, Dirk is better than Pau & Kidd, CP3, Nash & Deron Williams are better than Tony Parker & Chauncey Billups; that's basically non-debatable; but rings don't come into play there, it's just common sense; but you don't care about that argument anyway, because it's unrelated to your boy & his legacy.
you Laker stans just jump on the ring bandwagon because it's your only valid argument to say "LeBron & Kobe shouldn't even be put in the same sentence"; it's alright, you need something, right?
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Argueing with elior about kobe and lebron is pointlesss why even bother.Dont you get that whatever benefits his arguement he switches to?When kobe loses its because his team let him down,when lebron loses its because he let his team down.Elior is a joke and his obsession with kobe is creepy.
if lebron had actually won something in his career, maybe then you'd actually sound like you know what you're talking about and not just like a nutrider more obsessed with my nuts than the topic actually being discussed.
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there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
exactly..and lebron is known for folding under pressure, while kobe's known for steppin it up. point proven
one man can only do some much when the opposing team KNOWS that he is touching the ball, setting up the play & taking it himself on 90% of the possessions.
it's easy to play with All-Stars & take some pressure off yourself.
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase there is more pressure on them, resulting in lackluster performace. Some players play better in those circumstances, because the pressure causes them to bring even more intensity when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
LeBron doesn't like facing the pressure...Kobe embraces it and elevates his game. Watch how excited Kobe gets and how much more intense his game becomes when the game is on the line as opposed to LeBron, who seemingly hides from it. That's how you differentiate the greats from the goats.
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there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
exactly..and lebron is known for folding under pressure, while kobe's known for steppin it up. point proven
one man can only do some much when the opposing team KNOWS that he is touching the ball, setting up the play & taking it himself on 90% of the possessions.
it's easy to play with All-Stars & take some pressure off yourself.
Hey Cham, I just want to point out that you defending Lebron sounds a lot like me defending a certain quarter back all these years. I agree with you by the way on Lebron. I'm just saying.
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Argueing with elior about kobe and lebron is pointlesss why even bother.Dont you get that whatever benefits his arguement he switches to?When kobe loses its because his team let him down,when lebron loses its because he let his team down.Elior is a joke and his obsession with kobe is creepy.
if lebron had actually won something in his career, maybe then you'd actually sound like you know what you're talking about and not just like a nutrider more obsessed with my nuts than the topic actually being discussed.
LOL.Coming from the guy who would suck kobes dick if given the chance.your so biased you cant have a real arguement you just twist whatever makes kobe sounds better.
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase there is more pressure on them, resulting in lackluster performace. Some players play better in those circumstances, because the pressure causes them to bring even more intensity when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
i remember Tim Duncan hit a game winning or game tying three in the playoffs last year or maybe the year before; anybody can hit any shot at any given time lol.
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there is no difference between the regular season & the post season except for additional pressure; the Cavs ran the same scheme they ran to get 60 wins, but they didn't show up, missed shots & lost.
exactly..and lebron is known for folding under pressure, while kobe's known for steppin it up. point proven
one man can only do some much when the opposing team KNOWS that he is touching the ball, setting up the play & taking it himself on 90% of the possessions.
it's easy to play with All-Stars & take some pressure off yourself.
Hey Cham, I just want to point out that you defending Lebron sounds a lot like me defending a certain quarter back all these years. I agree with you by the way on Lebron. I'm just saying.
:sshh: :P
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
So you're telling me that after the second straight Championship those Shaq Lakers weren't expected to win? And why are you so down on Shaq? The guy was far and away the best player in the league those three years and then some. Imagine the rings on Jordan's hands if he got to play in the 80s with Kareem then did what he did in the 90s?
Kobe may be the most valuable player in the league until James shows he can win it all, but at the very least even you have to admit that between Shaq was the most dominant big man in basketball and a worthy MVP. The difference between Kobe and Jordan was the only time Jordan got to play with another MVP caliber baller was at the Olympics or at night on the road when he was lonely and porn was available.
thats besides the point.. many argue that those Bulls team were much deeper and better than the Laker 3peat teams. regardless, Lakers did win after they won the 2nd straight, so what are you talking about?
The 90s Bulls teams were. The 80s Bulls teams had Jordan and me, and they still made huge runs. Imagine Jordan and Kareem in the 80s. The 90s Bulls look a lot more like the current Lakers; an all around deep team with one major star. The 3 peat Lakers were two major stars with one being the far and away best big man in the league those 3 years.
And I know they did win the third one. You said the Lakers teams that Kobe was on when he won his rings and you said it in plural weren't expected to win. When in truth they were expected to win it all the second Shaq was signed.
I meant when they lost
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase their is more pressure on them. Some players play better in those circumstances, because they become even looser when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
Of course of course it's the "dumbest" thing you've heard. I mean that's why Alex Rodriguez was seen as the biggest choke job in the playoffs, yet somehow he magically produced the way he does in the regular season in the playoffs last year leading the Yankees to a World Series. Did A-Rod get balls before the 2009 playoffs? Did he get medication to play more loose? Did he get laid right before a game? ZOMG the possibilities! The answer is, well he just happened to perform like his normal self in the playoffs. This type of shit happens! It's called streaks, sometimes they happen in the playoffs sometimes they happen in the regular season.
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase there is more pressure on them, resulting in lackluster performace. Some players play better in those circumstances, because the pressure causes them to bring even more intensity when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
i remember Tim Duncan hit a game winning or game tying three in the playoffs last year or maybe the year before; anybody can hit any shot at any given time lol.
Imagine if a player can turn it on when the game is the on the line, then wouldn't he turn it on before it got to the point where a clutch moment can happen?
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skip bayless/van gundy and other people said the cavs are deeper then the lakers and are tougher and now that queen james loss he has no help...hahahah.....he just doesnt make teammates better when it counts..kobe does, ariza was huge n the playoffs, lamar made 50% of his 3's, pau made howard look like shawn bradley, and fisher hitting big shots
exactly, Ariza stepped it up; the players on the Cavs stepped down under pressure.
like 7even said, you're all biased as fuck; it's like trying to convince a Tupac groupie that there are better rappers than him lol.
so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
neither was LeBron's team when he lost in the Finals vs. the Spurs & scored 29 of the Cavs final 30 points to beat the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals; i guess everybody just forgot about that after they started making the Kobe comparisons LMFAO.
you Laker stans are so quick to just look at one game & say "see, how the fuck can you compare him to Kobe?", like Kobe has never had an off game.
LeBron was alone last year too & won 60 games; you can try to convince me Big Z is a top 10 center & stuff, but let's be real.
he's done some ridiculous shit & you bitch about other people "discrediting Kobe". :D
dont you get it, muthafucka? in the nba, nothing matters until you win a ring. that is what everyones playing for ....so until LeBron wins a ring, anything he does will seem like NOTHING in comparison ...to Laker fans, at least (who are used to being spoiled with championship caliber teams)
i guess i don't get it because you're so quick to knock down other players with rings; anything that will make Kobe look like the best player ever lol.
unless you admit Bill Russell is the greatest player ever, i can't listen to it lol.
people have no problem saying Karl Malone was one of the greats, but now LeBron can't win one (& his career is far from over) & you're ready to sign him off as some "average" player lol.
it's easily, by far, the most RETARDED logic i've ever heard to compare individual players & make the standards something that is 110% team related.
basically, going by your logic, i can just say, look at when they don't have major support, like Kobe those two Shaq-less/Pau-less years & how he couldn't do shit & LeBron's been running shit since '07 by himself.
LeBron James is better than D-Wade, Dirk is better than Pau & Kidd, CP3, Nash & Deron Williams are better than Tony Parker & Chauncey Billups; that's basically non-debatable; but rings don't come into play there, it's just common sense; but you don't care about that argument anyway, because it's unrelated to your boy & his legacy.
you Laker stans just jump on the ring bandwagon because it's your only valid argument to say "LeBron & Kobe shouldn't even be put in the same sentence"; it's alright, you need something, right?
first of all, I never said LeBron is an "average" player...As of now, he's a great player who doesn't have the killer instinct to win a championship as the leader of a team. That's all there is to it. You're giving examples of players who won championships not being as good as players who didn't...that's dandy and all, but you're naming SUPPORTING players, not team LEADERS. Huge difference.
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Argueing with elior about kobe and lebron is pointlesss why even bother.Dont you get that whatever benefits his arguement he switches to?When kobe loses its because his team let him down,when lebron loses its because he let his team down.Elior is a joke and his obsession with kobe is creepy.
if lebron had actually won something in his career, maybe then you'd actually sound like you know what you're talking about and not just like a nutrider more obsessed with my nuts than the topic actually being discussed.
LOL.Coming from the guy who would suck kobes dick if given the chance.your so biased you cant have a real arguement you just twist whatever makes kobe sounds better.
right...only in this instance, i have the upperhand, because Kobe actually is on the verge of possibly winning another champion, while LeBron's team just got knocked out in embarrasing fashion. Go do your NIK-dick-sucking in the Gspot, son.
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So let me ask this elior,where was kobes killer instinct after shaq left and before pau gasol got to the team? ::)
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i understand you're use to NBA All-Stars coming off the bench
name the all stars that are coming off the bench for the lakers
you exaggerate the talent on this team to discredit kobe...kobe didnt have as much help as the other champions like shaq, jordan and magic
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So let me ask this elior,where was kobes killer instinct after shaq left and before pau gasol got to the team? ::)
they were rebuilding you fucking retard.....dont you know how sports work?
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I realize this,but elior paints kobe as a godly basketball figure who is heads and toes above every other in the player in the league.Surely then this kobe god who makes all his teamates better and has this killer instinct it doesnt matter who he plays with because hes such a fearless leader who can make anybody look like an all star.
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so you're telling me the years Kobe didn't win, when he had no help, no Shaq, that you groupies didn't still call him the best player in the world?
you're logics are are fucked up; face it, you're just going to turn it which ever way you have to so Kobe looks like the best & LeBron looks like overrated trash.
LeBron doesn't show up once & his career is over. :D
those Kobe teams weren't expected to win it all...this LeBron team was a heavy favorite to go all the way. you see the difference?
So you're telling me that after the second straight Championship those Shaq Lakers weren't expected to win? And why are you so down on Shaq? The guy was far and away the best player in the league those three years and then some. Imagine the rings on Jordan's hands if he got to play in the 80s with Kareem then did what he did in the 90s?
Kobe may be the most valuable player in the league until James shows he can win it all, but at the very least even you have to admit that between Shaq was the most dominant big man in basketball and a worthy MVP. The difference between Kobe and Jordan was the only time Jordan got to play with another MVP caliber baller was at the Olympics or at night on the road when he was lonely and porn was available.
thats besides the point.. many argue that those Bulls team were much deeper and better than the Laker 3peat teams. regardless, Lakers did win after they won the 2nd straight, so what are you talking about?
The 90s Bulls teams were. The 80s Bulls teams had Jordan and me, and they still made huge runs. Imagine Jordan and Kareem in the 80s. The 90s Bulls look a lot more like the current Lakers; an all around deep team with one major star. The 3 peat Lakers were two major stars with one being the far and away best big man in the league those 3 years.
And I know they did win the third one. You said the Lakers teams that Kobe was on when he won his rings and you said it in plural weren't expected to win. When in truth they were expected to win it all the second Shaq was signed.
I meant when they lost
They weren't supposed to be at least championship contenders in 02/03? In 03/04 Kobe had Shaq, Malone, and Payton all with him and Kobe couldn't finish off the lowly Pistons.
All I know after watching tonight's game is a 1982-88 Larry Bird would have made Cleveland win. There I said it.
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase their is more pressure on them. Some players play better in those circumstances, because they become even looser when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
Of course of course it's the "dumbest" thing you've heard. I mean that's why Alex Rodriguez was seen as the biggest choke job in the playoffs, yet somehow he magically produced the way he does in the regular season in the playoffs last year leading the Yankees to a World Series. Did A-Rod get balls before the 2009 playoffs? Did he get medication to play more loose? Did he get laid right before a game? ZOMG the possibilities! The answer is, well he just happened to perform like his normal self in the playoffs. This type of shit happens! It's called streaks, sometimes they happen in the playoffs sometimes they happen in the regular season.
To say there's no such thing as "clutch" is just dumb, man, and you gotta understand where i'm coming from. Of course, some players who usually fold under pressure might face the pressure calmly at some point. Or it could also be that there are some players who don't always fold under pressure..maybe it depends on the mood they're in as they're facing the pressure. But, really, there's no doubt about it, some players are clearly more prone to folding under pressure, while some are more prone to intensifying their game under that same pressure, and performing at higher levels when there's more at stake. It's really not debatable...PeACe
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I realize this,but elior paints kobe as a godly basketball figure who is heads and toes above every other in the player in the league.Surely then this kobe god who makes all his teamates better and has this killer instinct it doesnt matter who he plays with because hes such a fearless leader who can make anybody look like an all star.
you finally got the message ;) it is what it is homie...dont hate the player hate the game
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So then why did it take kobe having to have shaq and pau gasol to win championships if hes the best player on the planet who is heads and toes above everyone?
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase there is more pressure on them, resulting in lackluster performace. Some players play better in those circumstances, because the pressure causes them to bring even more intensity when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
i remember Tim Duncan hit a game winning or game tying three in the playoffs last year or maybe the year before; anybody can hit any shot at any given time lol.
Imagine if a player can turn it on when the game is the on the line, then wouldn't he turn it on before it got to the point where a clutch moment can happen?
LOL...thats like saying "imagine if a girl could orgasm, then wouldn't she orgasm before it got to the point of climax so she could enjoy the sex just as much throughout the act?"
you're making no sense...certain players peak at different moments. some players play good when they're mad, some play bad. some players play good under pressure, some play worse...you're not taking human emotion into this.. we don't have robots out there playing for us LOL
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y did shaq need 2 superstars to win championships
y did jordan need 2 dominant players to win championships
y did magic and bird need all star teams to win championships
y did bill russel need 11 hall of famers to win championships
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So then why did it take kobe having to have shaq and pau gasol to win championships if hes the best player on the planet who is heads and toes above everyone?
cause even the best in the world (jordan, kobe, magic, bird ect...) need a real supporting cast...... ;) when they have that supporting cast then they make it even better by leading simple....i hope u do finally get it now...if u dont then stick to soccer kid :D
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All I know after watching tonight's game is a 1982-88 Larry Bird would have made Cleveland win. There I said it.
Real talk..glad we could agree on something.
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So then why did it take kobe having to have shaq and pau gasol to win championships if hes the best player on the planet who is heads and toes above everyone?
cause even the best in the world (jordan, kobe, magic, bird ect...) need a real supporting cast...... ;) when they have that supporting cast then they make it even better by leading simple....i hope u do finally get it now...if u dont then stick to soccer kid :D
And you think mo williams and an over the hill shaq compare to kobes supporting casts?LOL
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So then why did it take kobe having to have shaq and pau gasol to win championships if hes the best player on the planet who is heads and toes above everyone?
cause even the best in the world (jordan, kobe, magic, bird ect...) need a real supporting cast...... ;) when they have that supporting cast then they make it even better by leading simple....i hope u do finally get it now...if u dont then stick to soccer kid :D
And you think mo williams and an over the hill shaq compare to kobes supporting casts?LOL
Cleveland went into this playoffs with every analyst claiming they have the deepest team and with everyone giving major props to LeBron's supporting cast...like dude, said, stick to soccer (and GSpot)
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So then why did it take kobe having to have shaq and pau gasol to win championships if hes the best player on the planet who is heads and toes above everyone?
cause even the best in the world (jordan, kobe, magic, bird ect...) need a real supporting cast...... ;) when they have that supporting cast then they make it even better by leading simple....i hope u do finally get it now...if u dont then stick to soccer kid :D
And you think mo williams and an over the hill shaq compare to kobes supporting casts?LOL
well see that's were i see all the laker/kobe haters like u & cham hating, its not anyone's fault but the cavarettes for having such a wack ass supporting cast....spend money on real players instead of washed up players then....
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i dont watch soccer.And elior,stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe and stop trying to discredit another player just because your jealous that lebron is getting more attention then him and people including many analysts say hes better then kobe.your like a jealous gf LOL.Its quite obvious you get butt hurt about anything negative said about kobe and act like hes your damn gf,which im sure you wish he as.Whos opinion should we listen to more,professional analysts or some rich jewish kid who lives in law and talks about kobe in every third senetence LOL
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lol @ these haters...they blamed kobe when he lost and when queen james losses it's b/c of his teammates :laugh:
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i dont watch soccer.And elior,stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe and stop trying to discredit another player just because your jealous that lebron is getting more attention then him and people including many analysts say hes better then kobe.your like a jealous gf LOL.Its quite obvious you get butt hurt about anything negative said about kobe and act like hes your damn gf,which im sure you wish he as.Whos opinion should we listen to more,professional analysts or some rich jewish kid who lives in law and talks about kobe in every third senetence LOL
"stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe"??? that doesnt even make sense...like i said, go ride my nuts in the gspot, man. they find it amusing there.
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lol @ these haters...they blamed kobe when he lost and when queen james losses it's b/c of his teammates :laugh:
exactly, kids ;)
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(http://i43.tinypic.com/ob02s3.jpg)
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i dont watch soccer.And elior,stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe and stop trying to discredit another player just because your jealous that lebron is getting more attention then him and people including many analysts say hes better then kobe.your like a jealous gf LOL.Its quite obvious you get butt hurt about anything negative said about kobe and act like hes your damn gf,which im sure you wish he as.Whos opinion should we listen to more,professional analysts or some rich jewish kid who lives in law and talks about kobe in every third senetence LOL
"stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe"??? that doesnt even make sense...like i said, go ride my nuts in the gspot, man. they find it amusing there.
Go make a thread, Eliors official Kobe bryant thread.You can posts as much retarded shit as you like about kobe and suck his nuts all you want and leave discussions to people that arent complete idiots.
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i dont watch soccer.And elior,stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe and stop trying to discredit another player just because your jealous that lebron is getting more attention then him and people including many analysts say hes better then kobe.your like a jealous gf LOL.Its quite obvious you get butt hurt about anything negative said about kobe and act like hes your damn gf,which im sure you wish he as.Whos opinion should we listen to more,professional analysts or some rich jewish kid who lives in law and talks about kobe in every third senetence LOL
"stick to talking about kobe in your own thread about kobe"??? that doesnt even make sense...like i said, go ride my nuts in the gspot, man. they find it amusing there.
Go make a thread, Eliors official Kobe bryant thread.You can posts as much retarded shit as you like about kobe and suck his nuts all you want and leave discussions to people that arent complete idiots.
this is my thread, and it generated 9 pages of discussion...i have more rights to tell you to get the fuck out than the other way around. now get the fuck out and do your nutlicking elsewhere. the end.
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And 7 of those 9 pages are filled with your posts about sucking kobes nuts.Why are you so fucking obsessed with him?Dont you ahve your own life?Shouldnt you be beating your gf right now?
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And 7 of those 9 pages are filled with your posts about sucking kobes nuts.Why are you so fucking obsessed with him?Dont you ahve your own life?Shouldnt you be beating your gf right now?
now the last 2 pages are you sucking my nuts. good going.
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You know that 90 percent of your posts contain the word kobe?Dont you see you have a problem?You need help.
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You know that 90 percent of your posts contain the word kobe?Dont you see you have a problem?You need help.
anyone noticed how the nba didnt have one single commercial with kobe & lebum this time around lmao.....
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There is no such thing as clutch, players don't magically become better in the last minute or last quarter.
That is honestly about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Some players do get more nervous when a shot/series/play means more...they don't play as loose, becuase their is more pressure on them. Some players play better in those circumstances, because they become even looser when they have more to prove. The latter is far rarer than the former...and this applies to any profession (not just sports).
Of course of course it's the "dumbest" thing you've heard. I mean that's why Alex Rodriguez was seen as the biggest choke job in the playoffs, yet somehow he magically produced the way he does in the regular season in the playoffs last year leading the Yankees to a World Series. Did A-Rod get balls before the 2009 playoffs? Did he get medication to play more loose? Did he get laid right before a game? ZOMG the possibilities! The answer is, well he just happened to perform like his normal self in the playoffs. This type of shit happens! It's called streaks, sometimes they happen in the playoffs sometimes they happen in the regular season.
To say there's no such thing as "clutch" is just dumb, man, and you gotta understand where i'm coming from. Of course, some players who usually fold under pressure might face the pressure calmly at some point. Or it could also be that there are some players who don't always fold under pressure..maybe it depends on the mood they're in as they're facing the pressure. But, really, there's no doubt about it, some players are clearly more prone to folding under pressure, while some are more prone to intensifying their game under that same pressure, and performing at higher levels when there's more at stake. It's really not debatable...PeACe
There's a difference between clutch moments and the idea of clutch players. The idea that some players are more prone to do X in this situation than Y is just in your head. This type of stuff is hard to analyze, you can't easily put it in stats and you can definitely not call it out with your eye. When I said there's no such thing as clutch, I basically mean that clutch isn't easy to spot, quantify, or whatever.
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Here's a perfect example of how things can change with "clutch" stats from one year to the next
These are stats where the game is in the 4th quarter or overtime and neither team ahead of 5 points or more
2008-2009 top 3 in Pts/48 min
Kobe Bryant: 56.7 46%
Lebron James: 55.9 55%
Carmello Anthony: 54.4 57%
2009-2010
Lebron James: 66.1 49%
Kobe Bryant: 51.2 44%
Dirk Nowitzki: 47.2 45%
Our eyes are deceiving and tend to just look for stuff that we agree upon before hand.
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This is coming from someone who's a neutral fan of NBA, without any favorite team. There's obviously something going on with Lebron and his play off games. We've seen it happen like 3 years in a row now. Cleveland is killing it in the regular season and than completely fails in the play offs. And exact opposite with Kobe. Lakers usually "suck" (for their standards) in the regular but step it up in the play offs. And it's funny to me how people can't see that Kobe really is indeed a clutch player and that Lebron chokes on the regular. At first I thought, ok, he's still young etc. but now this shit happened 3rd time in a row. I'm not saying Lebron is solely to blame but still... And I think Lebron is an amazing player but there's a difference between a great player and basketball icons... and yeah rings do matter.
It's same with other sports. Take tennis for example... Federer always plays average to the finals, while guys like Murray, Verdasco, Djokovic play great but then completely choke in the finals.
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Could we stop pretending that LeBron plays with a collection of future Hall of Famers? If they'd do average in the regular season noone would say they are underachieving. It's just that they do so suprisingly good in the reg season, that it is disappointing for them to not go to the Finals. Well, with Orlando and Boston the East elite got real competitive, much more than the West currently. 2 Years ago the Celtics embarrassed Kobe and the Lakers, and the reason they didn't do much in 2009 was due to Garnett's injury. The only guys who were real All-Star caliber players on the Cavs besides LeBron are Z and Jamison, and boy those niggas is washed up. The team is better than it used to be, of course, but it is still not a real championship team. The year they went to the Finals, they basically were trash except for LeBron. They still made it because the East didn't have Boston or Orlando yet and because James was completely ridiculous. Laker niggas seem to have forgotten about the way he fucking torched the Pistons in Game 5. Much like yall have forgotten how Kobe quit on his sucky teammates in game 7 against the Suns. Or how Kobe and the Lakers got punked by the Celtics in a similiar fashion. Niggas be forgetting what they don't wanna know.
The blunt truth is, that Mike Brown is a horrible, horrible coach and that the Cavs teammates are not exactly the best you can wish for. Being a regular season success is the most you can ask for under those circumstances. Anything else, like a championship or so, would be nuts.
I really wish James gets a decent or even good coach before his prime ends. I'm sure he'd also develop into a better player if he doesn't have to coach himself anymore.
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Nobody is denying (as far as I've seen) that Kobe hasn't had his share of failures. But at the end of the day Kobe has 4 rings and Lebron zero. I don't see how that's not a relevant argument. It's not like they are some average players, with little ambition who are happy just to play in the NBA. It's fucking Lebron and Kobe. It's just like music, where you have artist on a major label who obviously want sales, worldwide tours, grammy awards.... Then you have independent aritst who are happy with their small loyal fan base.
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Nobody is denying (as far as I've seen) that Kobe hasn't had his share of failures. But at the end of the day Kobe has 4 rings and Lebron zero. I don't see how that's not a relevant argument. It's not like they are some average players, with little ambition who are happy just to play in the NBA. It's fucking Lebron and Kobe. It's just like music, where you have artist on a major label who obviously want sales, worldwide tours, grammy awards.... Then you have independent aritst who are happy with their small loyal fan base.
A ring is not just a ring nigga. Technically, LeBron could very easily get rings if he just signed with a contender for the MLE. But noone would respect that. It's much more respectable to win rings with your sucky home team. And much harder also. Just ask Kobe - he knew why he wouldn't want to play for the sucky Hornets. I'm not sure he'd have a ring if he played for them all career long ;)
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Compare all the teams kobe played with to win those rings with against the teams lebron has played with and its not even close talent wise.Players dont win rings,teams do.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
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Ive never said that.
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First, when Boston is healthy, they are a great team. Lebron did a great job on Pierce, and the Celtics still won.
Second, Jamison was 2-8 last night, and is HORRIBLE at defense.
Third, Mo Williams...great in the first half, but did he even play in the second?
4th- Shaq got KILLED by Garnett
Lebron had 27, 19, and 10 (plus a shitload of TO's)...he has to do too much on this team. Crunch time- everyone disappears and its all on Lebron.
I'm calling it...Mike Brown is fired in the next week...great d coach, but no idea on how to make adjustments or get the most out of his guys...
I say Lebron opts out...
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
you know how it is dog, everyone has amnesia when they lose or look stupid, when they win their memory is at their best lmao.....convenient huh... ;)
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give kobe the cavs with jamison, moon, Z, mo. he'll get out of the east no problem.
imagine lebron having the same team in the west, this guys pathetic, walking triple double for nothing. lol at this guy not getting out of the eastern conference.
come to the west lebron for the REAL playoffs
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If Cleveland wins the championship, this thread will end up pretty funny lol
And if Cleveland loses in the second round to the Boston Celtics, then we can conclude that NIKCC and those who agreed with him were right?
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Kobe>Lebron, even if the Cav's advanced. But to write off Lebron as weak cause he ain't won shit does not make sense to me. He's only 25, gotta lot of BB ahead of him still. And even if he never wins a championship, that does not make him garbage, see Reggie Miller and Charles Barkley for example.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
See, nobody ever said they're garbage, and at the same time, nobody said they were a hall-of-fame supporting cast. LOL...it's in between, and you Laker haters are the only ones who try to twist shit into something it's not. Pau is an all-star big, Odom is an all-star caliber player, Artest is a great defender, but decent on offense, Bynum is a good big who has potential to be a beast, Fisher is old and slow, but can still hit big shots, the bench is not as strong as it has been in previous years, but still solid at times...It is what it is, so quit with the bullshit...PeACe
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
Do you even follow basketball? That's all anyone talks about until he gets bounced from the playoffs. Then people develop amnesia and start the talk all over again the next season.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
Do you even follow basketball? That's all anyone talks about until he gets bounced from the playoffs. Then people develop amnesia and start the talk all over again the next season.
lmao +1 for that lebron info at the bottom
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so how can this player be the best ever or better than jordan....no way possible....and hes a loser....member when he walked off and didnt even approach howard.....thats how players of all time roll? lol
nobody says he's better than jordan... we're not laker-fans. we don't roll like that. but he still is def better than kobe right now and thus def the best in the world
Do you even follow basketball? That's all anyone talks about until he gets bounced from the playoffs. Then people develop amnesia and start the talk all over again the next season.
i don't follow it in the sense of reading every retard journalist's opinion about it like i used to. but i doubt every journalist went on how lebron was greater than jordan. as for wcc i don't see niggas saying that.
fact is still, the times jordan went to the finals he had a much better supporting cast.
all those cavs players would be irrelevant individuals of they played for some random team without a superstar. their 2 biggest stars, shaq and jamison, actually make them worse. varejao >> shaq in this series, and jamison is just plain sucking at defense while not being a good player on offense - mike brown is just retarded, that's all there is to it.
NEWSFLASH: MIKE BROWN, FIRED!
Long overdue. Probably too late.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
Exactly. Everything is peachy in the regular season and with every new year Cavs get a new player and people start saying how now they are a great team. Then they're eliminated and the team sucks. And if you look at it from another perspective, I'm sure Lebron has a big say in Cleveland team as far as the picks go, so if the team is as shitty as some people say, Lebron doesn't know how to assimilate a proper team. It's not like Lebron goes into the season with "damn, I have a shitty team" mindset.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
Exactly. Everything is peachy in the regular season and with every new year Cavs get a new player and people start saying how now they are a great team. Then they're eliminated and the team sucks. And if you look at it from another perspective, I'm sure Lebron has a big say in Cleveland team as far as the picks go, so if the team is as shitty as some people say, Lebron doesn't know how to assimilate a proper team. It's not like Lebron goes into the season with "damn, I have a shitty team" mindset.
i never once thought the cavs was gonna win a ring throughout the whole time lebrons been in the league, i dont see it in him period.
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^Those Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol trades don't happen to come around very often.
The Cavs also fucked up re-signing Carlos Boozer, which was probably a top 10 fuck up in management history. And I'm pretty sure James didn't say "let's make it so that Boozer can just sign a way bigger contract somewhere else instead of locking him or extending his rookie contract".
Boozer has been the best player LeBron ever played with, and he left far too early.
Kobe would have probably demanded a trade and called the owner an idiot. James played on and went to the finals.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
How many Cavs fans do you know? lol. See the thing is, Kobe fans seem to think that anyone who says Lebron is better than Kobe...is a Lebron fan. I could care less about Lebron or Kobe. Lebron could go the rest of his career without ONE title....it wont matter to me. Or he could win 6...and again, I wont give a fuck. Maybe Cavs fans did the same thing with Lebron as far as his supporting cast. But Im not arguing with Cavs fans...Im arguing with Laker fans. Me being an outsider who has no real bias one way or the other...I think Kobe has the better supporting cast. People who take offense to that, are more than likely Kobe fans more than they are Laker fans. A Laker fan would take that as a compliment to the team. A Kobe fan would take it as a shot on Kobe.
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
How many Cavs fans do you know? lol. See the thing is, Kobe fans seem to think that anyone who says Lebron is better than Kobe...is a Lebron fan. I could care less about Lebron or Kobe. Lebron could go the rest of his career without ONE title....it wont matter to me. Or he could win 6...and again, I wont give a fuck. Maybe Cavs fans did the same thing with Lebron as far as his supporting cast. But Im not arguing with Cavs fans...Im arguing with Laker fans. Me being an outsider who has no real bias one way or the other...I think Kobe has the better supporting cast. People who take offense to that, are more than likely Kobe fans more than they are Laker fans. A Laker fan would take that as a compliment to the team. A Kobe fan would take it as a shot on Kobe.
Nobody takes it as a shot on Kobe, it's just that when the Lakers were playing bad, everyone said how shitty we were and how we have a horrible bench and how our supporting cast isn't cutting it and isn't nearly as good as LeBron's. Remember, Cavs were beasting even before Jamison came along. When Jamison came along, everyone was crowning the Cavs as automatic champs. Now that LeBron lost, those same people are tryna flip it into "Jamison is a scrub, Shaq is washed up, Mo Williams isn't a real all-star", when truth of the matter is, they had a really good team this year, and just didn't have the passion to win it all. Obviously, Cavs had the ability to beat Boston, they just didn't have the drive and determination, and that usually comes from being represented by a great leader...PeACe
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
How many Cavs fans do you know? lol. See the thing is, Kobe fans seem to think that anyone who says Lebron is better than Kobe...is a Lebron fan. I could care less about Lebron or Kobe. Lebron could go the rest of his career without ONE title....it wont matter to me. Or he could win 6...and again, I wont give a fuck. Maybe Cavs fans did the same thing with Lebron as far as his supporting cast. But Im not arguing with Cavs fans...Im arguing with Laker fans. Me being an outsider who has no real bias one way or the other...I think Kobe has the better supporting cast. People who take offense to that, are more than likely Kobe fans more than they are Laker fans. A Laker fan would take that as a compliment to the team. A Kobe fan would take it as a shot on Kobe.
I'm not arguing with any teams fans. I'm saying it works the same regardless of whose fans you argue with. It is the same faulty logic with any fan when talking about their star player. Their team does good, the star player is a legend, they do bad, the star player doesn't have good teammates.
And I'm not buying that you are unbiased. How can a true Spurs fan not be against the Lakers?
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lakers fans have being saying that for years. all we keep hearing from you retards is how jordan, shaq, and magic did on their own.....now you fags are hiding behind this team shit b/c you dont want give kobe his props, it's kobes fault when they lose but it's the team when they win..lol
Likewise, when the team wins (for u guys) its cus of Kobe...when they lose, its the bench or the role players.
Kobe fans are so fun to fuck with lol. Cus if you criticize the Laker team as a whole, they tell you how great the other players on the team are. How GREAT Pau is...Bynum..Artest...Old Man Fisher...etc lol. But then if you say Kobe has more help then Lebron, immediately all those "great" players become garbage in the eyes of a Kobe lover lol. Kobe fans always seem to have a really big inferiority complex when it comes to their man.
But isn't that exactly what Cavs fans do? Remeber last year (or the year before?) when they were all complaining that Mo Williams deserves to be on the All-Star team (was later selected as a replacement)? Or that acquiring Shaq and Jaminson makes them a superior team. The Cavs lose and all of a sudden LeBron has no decent teammates.
How many Cavs fans do you know? lol. See the thing is, Kobe fans seem to think that anyone who says Lebron is better than Kobe...is a Lebron fan. I could care less about Lebron or Kobe. Lebron could go the rest of his career without ONE title....it wont matter to me. Or he could win 6...and again, I wont give a fuck. Maybe Cavs fans did the same thing with Lebron as far as his supporting cast. But Im not arguing with Cavs fans...Im arguing with Laker fans. Me being an outsider who has no real bias one way or the other...I think Kobe has the better supporting cast. People who take offense to that, are more than likely Kobe fans more than they are Laker fans. A Laker fan would take that as a compliment to the team. A Kobe fan would take it as a shot on Kobe.
I'm not arguing with any teams fans. I'm saying it works the same regardless of whose fans you argue with. It is the same faulty logic with any fan when talking about their star player. Their team does good, the star player is a legend, they do bad, the star player doesn't have good teammates.
And I'm not buying that you are unbiased. How can a true Spurs fan not be against the Lakers?
I think amongst educated fans....the "rivalry" between the Spurs and Lakers is somewhat respectful. Educated fans of both teams actually respect the success the other franchise has enjoyed...particularly over the last decade. Notice the word "educated" as the Lakers have more casual fans then any other team in the league. So for me, Im not gonna be against the Lakers just to be against the Lakers. Its not the same as how I feel about the Chargers as a Raider fan lol. Ive said it a million times. I think Kobe is a great player. And will go down as one of the all time greats, no question. I think Lebron will go down ranked higher on the all time list though. Is that a sure thing? Of course not. Lebron is 25 lol. But with what Lebron has been expected to do from day 1...its pretty fuckin amazing. It took Kobe till what...his 5th year in the league to be a real FORCE and he still wasnt expected to lead the team. LeBron has been expected to take a horrible franchise and turn them into a championship team, basically by himself. That has NEVER once been expected of Kobe.
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player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
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lol you went over all their mediocre players and didnt talk about their good ones.
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lol you went over all their mediocre players and didnt talk about their good ones.
yea amnesia just hit box hard lmao....he picked the bench......
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player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
this year i believe farmar should of started, he needs to improve but he just doesnt get the minutes that fish seems to gobble up/shannon brown. but brown is no point guard. walton wouldnt be as horrible if he wasnt gettin payed 5 mil, guys actually one of the few from the bench that actually passes down low rather than taking a J. sasha has no excuses period, but his 3pt shooting isnt all that bad (statistically). fishers old he cant guard most pgs in the league but thats expected when ur 35 and its expected that the team comes and helps him.
lol and mbenga how can you talk shit about him? whenever he comes on the floor hes very productive and explosive on the defensive end and always gets a couple of blocks with the mininscual minutes he gets. his offense isnt that great but he has a nice shooting touch for a big.
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On thing I WILL give Kobe....is that apparently he doesnt have the luxury of playing for the best coach in the league. According to Nash lol
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but they had the best player in the LEAGUE? lets say lakers arent what cavs are...what the hell is all this best player stuff all about and he cant even hang in the semi's? lol
overhyped him for years...and now this
player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
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but they had the best player in the LEAGUE? lets say lakers arent what cavs are...what the hell is all this best player stuff all about and he cant even hang in the semi's? lol
overhyped him for years...and now this
player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
so according to you....JaMarcus is just hated on....and LeBron is overhyped....
all I can say is.....wow....
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but they had the best player in the LEAGUE? lets say lakers arent what cavs are...what the hell is all this best player stuff all about and he cant even hang in the semi's? lol
overhyped him for years...and now this
player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
so according to you....JaMarcus is just hated on....and LeBron is overhyped....
all I can say is.....wow....
Either way you spin it, LeBron IS overhyped...just like Dwight Howard.
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but they had the best player in the LEAGUE? lets say lakers arent what cavs are...what the hell is all this best player stuff all about and he cant even hang in the semi's? lol
overhyped him for years...and now this
player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
so according to you....JaMarcus is just hated on....and LeBron is overhyped....
all I can say is.....wow....
Either way you spin it, LeBron IS overhyped...just like Dwight Howard.
lol LeBron has easily been one of the most productive players in HISTORY during the first part of his career. Hard to overhype that. Kobe would kill to have been THIS productive at the beginning of his career. He was lucky to step into a situation where the team didnt need him to do shit really.
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LeBron James free agency is already bigger than the NBA playoffs.
if LeBron declares where he wants to go the day we crown a champion, LeBron would get the headline in the papers, the radio & on TV; he's that ill. 8)
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LeBron James free agency is already bigger than the NBA playoffs.
if LeBron declares where he wants to go the day we crown a champion, LeBron would get the headline in the papers, the radio & on TV; he's that ill. 8)
This is the real problem elior has with lebron.He wishes people cared about kobe as much as they do lebron.
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LeBron James free agency is already bigger than the NBA playoffs.
if LeBron declares where he wants to go the day we crown a champion, LeBron would get the headline in the papers, the radio & on TV; he's that ill. 8)
This is the real problem elior has with lebron.He wishes people cared about kobe as much as they do lebron.
i can understand how it can be annoying to be reminded everyday how LeBron is better than Kobe. :P
but if i was in NIK's shoes, before i commited suicide, i would at least discuss Kobe/LeBron beef with an open mind.
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Your talking about a guy who lives at home,has a fat ugly gf,two retarded friends and works at his dads company but says hes self made and get with dime fees.Hes not someone that can have a logical conversation,you just get him to talk and laugh at his absurdity.
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but they had the best player in the LEAGUE? lets say lakers arent what cavs are...what the hell is all this best player stuff all about and he cant even hang in the semi's? lol
overhyped him for years...and now this
player for player the lakers do not have a better team then the cavs
i mean fisher can't guard shit
sasha is one of the sorriest muthafuccas in the league
luke walton succs something terrible
banga is not good lets be honest
farmar has always been inconsistent and doesn't know shit about defense
the thing the lakers had over the cavs is phil jaccson he's a better coach then brown,and sometimes more talent doesn't translate into wins,because you can't make time for everyone and that was the cavs problem, i mean they had hiccson and didn't play him, they also had the laker killer leon powe who knows the celtics and mike brown ain't play him either yell
so according to you....JaMarcus is just hated on....and LeBron is overhyped....
all I can say is.....wow....
Either way you spin it, LeBron IS overhyped...just like Dwight Howard.
lol LeBron has easily been one of the most productive players in HISTORY during the first part of his career. Hard to overhype that. Kobe would kill to have been THIS productive at the beginning of his career. He was lucky to step into a situation where the team didnt need him to do shit really.
LeBron was handed the team from day one, Kobe had to work his way up to being an all-time great...Either way, hard to disagree with LeBron being overhyped with all the Jordan comparisons and build-up to him being the "greatest ever", when in reality, he's more comparable to a Melo or Durant...PeACe
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LeBron James free agency is already bigger than the NBA playoffs.
if LeBron declares where he wants to go the day we crown a champion, LeBron would get the headline in the papers, the radio & on TV; he's that ill. 8)
LOL...and then people claim he's not overhyped. classic example, good shit.
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LeBron James free agency is already bigger than the NBA playoffs.
if LeBron declares where he wants to go the day we crown a champion, LeBron would get the headline in the papers, the radio & on TV; he's that ill. 8)
LOL...and then people claim he's not overhyped. classic example, good shit.
how is that overhype?
it's because everyone knows he's the best & can alter the power of the league.
remember when Kobe was kind of close to going to the Bulls? nobody cared because everybody knew that he wasn't going to win in Chicago, he didn't have the cast REQUIRED for Kobe to win.
with LeBron, people know that he can go to multiple teams & bring instant results; hence why the entire league has come to a screeching halt just to see what he does next.
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lol, watch lebron end up with no rings.
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lol, watch lebron end up with no rings.
that means we would have to watch LeBron on a medicore team for the next fifteen seasons lol.
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lol, watch lebron end up with no rings.
that means we would have to watch LeBron on a medicore team for the next fifteen seasons lol.
lol was this year and last years cavs team medicore? their championship contenders in terms of stats and depth.
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how is that overhype?
it's because everyone knows he's the best & can alter the power of the league.
remember when Kobe was kind of close to going to the Bulls? nobody cared because everybody knew that he wasn't going to win in Chicago, he didn't have the cast REQUIRED for Kobe to win.
with LeBron, people know that he can go to multiple teams & bring instant results; hence why the entire league has come to a screeching halt just to see what he does next.
I've think you've developed amensia because Kobe's free agency was the topic of the 2004 offseason. All the talk about his departure with Shaq, wether he'd play for coach K, wether he'd go to the Bulls, Clippers, etc. Or are you refering to 2007?
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Anyone who claims the Cavs were a "mediocre" team this season doesn't deserve to analyze the sport of basketball, plain and simple. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
Exactly. All the greats go through it...to say, at 26, Lebron will NEVER be as good as Kobe is straight stupid....guess how many titles MJ had at 26??
Lebron still has no post game; once he gets one, it is LIGHTS OUT for others. Antwan Jamison, Mo Williams, and a washed up Shaq ARE NOT what he needs. Neither is Mike Brown.
Kobe struggled to be the man on a championship team, Jordan struggled to win until he was 28...I'd say Lebron has some time still.
Lebron will take the loss as motivation to get better and become more of a leader. No player has ever went through a career without hardships. Lebron didn'
t play great in the playoffs, but he'll be fine and still win a couple of chips along the way.,
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Anyone who claims the Cavs were a "mediocre" team this season doesn't deserve to analyze the sport of basketball, plain and simple. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
Teams that win 60 games aren't mediocre, plain and simple. BUT, if you watch the Cavs, and you seem to be an expert, you know their offense is majorly flawed and too Lebron centred (as you have said many times); there is no movement, too much Lebron...Lebron NEEDS a real, just like Kobe does, just like MJ did...
Come on NIK, you telling me you would be happy if Jamison was the second option, or Mo Williams?
The cavs weren't medicore, but just like last year they weren't quite good enough. Lebron had a part in that no doubt. See, unlike certain Lakers fans who praise only Kobe when they win and blame others when they lose, most Cavgs fans (i am not even really a cavgs fan by the way) will tell you straight up Lebron wasn't good enough in the playoffs.
Kinda like Kobe in 2006 and 2008.
peace
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
Here's the difference...
in 2006, Kobe willed a team to the postseason..a team who no one expected to make the playoffs. Kobe had them overachieving to the max. He single-handedly pushed them to accomplish way more than anyone ever expected.
in 2010, LeBron let down a team that was expected to win it all by most analysts and NBA fans. He single-handedly ruined any chance they had to win the championship with his lackadaisical play and weak effort.
No real comparison.
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Anyone who claims the Cavs were a "mediocre" team this season doesn't deserve to analyze the sport of basketball, plain and simple. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
Teams that win 60 games aren't mediocre, plain and simple. BUT, if you watch the Cavs, and you seem to be an expert, you know their offense is majorly flawed and too Lebron centred (as you have said many times); there is no movement, too much Lebron...Lebron NEEDS a real, just like Kobe does, just like MJ did...
Come on NIK, you telling me you would be happy if Jamison was the second option, or Mo Williams?
The cavs weren't medicore, but just like last year they weren't quite good enough. Lebron had a part in that no doubt. See, unlike certain Lakers fans who praise only Kobe when they win and blame others when they lose, most Cavgs fans (i am not even really a cavgs fan by the way) will tell you straight up Lebron wasn't good enough in the playoffs.
Kinda like Kobe in 2006 and 2008.
peace
Like I said in my previous post, Kobe '06 and LeBron '10 are two different worlds. When you look at both scenarios, Kobe pushed his team to overachieve, while LeBron held his team to underachieve. HUGE difference.
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
Here's the difference...I'm a Kobe dickrider & it doesn't matter what you say or what points you make or how stupid I sound or ANYTHING. As long as this Kobe poster is on my wall, he will be the GOAT & that's non-debatable because my genius, Basketball IQ is beyond everybody elses & if you're not supporting the Lakers, you're retarded.
that's the greatest post you've ever made.
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lol, watch lebron end up with no rings.
that means we would have to watch LeBron on a medicore team for the next fifteen seasons lol.
lol was this year and last years cavs team medicore? their championship contenders in terms of stats and depth.
this year? no, they were good, just overrated; you Laker fans got all wet when you heard Jamison was a Cav because now you were like, "OKAY, NO EXCUSES MWUAHAHA, HE HAS TO WIN NOW!" & Jamison sucked dick vs. the Celtics; what is LeBron going to do? have a triple-double in every game? lmfao.
last year, there second best players was Mo Williams or Big Z, take your pick; Trevor Ariza was coming off the bench (correct?) & was better then them lol; so yeah, they OVERALL, as a team weren't medicore, just overrated.
you guys play the fence though; if it's about the Cavs being a great team, you guys say "no, no, no"; but when you start comparing Kobe & LeBron, magically the Cavs become the BEST team in the league, who could make the playoffs without LeBron lol.
again, for the fifth time, you can't compare rings to determine whose better in a team sport; it's just whose better & the answer is quite simply LeBron.
i never heard of "folding up" with a triple-double lol; there is zero difference between the regular season & the playoffs; they are the same basketball games just vs. the same team for seven games (if need be).
ANYWAY, i meant that "if he never wins a ring", it means he'd have gone to the Nets & sucked it up to be homeboys with Jay-Z rather then team up with Wade or Bosh.
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
Here's the difference...
in 2006, Kobe willed a team to the postseason..a team who no one expected to make the playoffs. Kobe had them overachieving to the max. He single-handedly pushed them to accomplish way more than anyone ever expected.
in 2010, LeBron let down a team that was expected to win it all by most analysts and NBA fans. He single-handedly ruined any chance they had to win the championship with his lackadaisical play and weak effort.
No real comparison.
Kobe gave up on his team when the season was on the line and so did Lebron.
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^don't listen to NIK lol.
he calls LeBron's game "lackadaisical", yet he grabbed 19 rebounds; i don't know if he had 19 rebounds in a game all season lol.
he just refuses to admit Mr. Jamison played like poop.
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
I can respect what you are saying, as long as you weren't one of the fdudes saying Kobe shoulda been MVP when his team wasn't wining shit, or that he was the best player in the world while tanking it in playoff games
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
I can respect what you are saying, as long as you weren't one of the fdudes saying Kobe shoulda been MVP when his team wasn't wining shit, or that he was the best player in the world while tanking it in playoff games
nail in the coffin nigga
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
I can respect what you are saying, as long as you weren't one of the fdudes saying Kobe shoulda been MVP when his team wasn't wining shit, or that he was the best player in the world while tanking it in playoff games
i feel u on that but i can tell u this, that even when kobe did tanked a lil in the playoffs he def gave more effort & had more heart than lebum did
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
I can respect what you are saying, as long as you weren't one of the fdudes saying Kobe shoulda been MVP when his team wasn't wining shit, or that he was the best player in the world while tanking it in playoff games
i feel u on that but i can tell u this, that even when kobe did tanked a lil in the playoffs he def gave more effort & had more heart than lebum did
3 shots in the second half in a game 7? Heart baby, burning fucking desire there.
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you mean when the Lakers pass him the torch?
when will you understand that Kobe cannot win alone? he was alone, barely finished .500 & lost in the playoffs, yet everybody just tries to forget those years; can't blame you Kobe stans. ;)
the Lakers are WINNING rings, Kobe is a factor in it.
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you mean when the Lakers pass him the torch?
when will you understand that Kobe cannot win alone? he was alone, barely finished .500 & lost in the playoffs, yet everybody just tries to forget those years; can't blame you Kobe stans. ;)
the Lakers are WINNING rings, Kobe is a factor in it.
no matter if it's the lakers or kobe u get my point regardless so im str8 wit that, kobe stan or no stan it is what it is rookie....now go back to ridin dirty lmao..... ;)
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^Yea...Because I'm the only one questioning LeBron's effort and determination, right?
Do you even pay attention to sports, or do you just go on message boards and run your mouth to sound ignorant?
Obviously, I'm not the only one who's pointing out that LeBron wasn't at the top of his game vs. Boston...Hell, there's even rumors about Delonte West fucking his mom because of how bad he performed. So, please, quit fooling yourself, and stop acting like I'm out of my mind for questioning LeBron's play, because it weakens your already weak argument. Your claim is that he didn't have the right supporting cast...okay, then why were they able to win so many games in the regular season? why were they the heavy favorites to win it all? why was everyone claiming how deep Cleveland was, even PRIOR to the acquisition of Antawn Jamison? why were they favored by so much in the Boston series? Fact of the matter is, Cleveland had the talent to beat Boston, they just didn't have the heart and will, and where does that come from? the driver...and who is the driver of the team? the team leader... In this case, LeBron was the leader, and he failed...Kobe has failed in the past, no doubt, but never this miserably, and for every 1 time that Kobe has failed, he also has 1 ring to show for it...Oh, yea...and...Kobe does it again with 40 points tonight 8) 8) 8) 8)
what i dont understand is that its been almost a week since the cavarettes lost & these lakers/kobe haters still yapping they mouths about it, what's done is done y'all, take the loss like men do, who gives a fuck how many rebounds, assist or points lebum scored if the muthafucka has nothing else to show for it. im sure lebum will win someday but it will be after kobe retires & passes the torch to him, til then sit back & watch THE REAL M.V.P. of the league show u how the west coast rocks..... ;)
I can respect what you are saying, as long as you weren't one of the fdudes saying Kobe shoulda been MVP when his team wasn't wining shit, or that he was the best player in the world while tanking it in playoff games
i feel u on that but i can tell u this, that even when kobe did tanked a lil in the playoffs he def gave more effort & had more heart than lebum did
3 shots in the second half in a game 7? Heart baby, burning fucking desire there.
It's well documented that Phil Jackson switched up the game-plan at half time of that Game 7 against Phoenix and told Kobe to try and get the other players going in the 2nd half. Kobe had gone for 20+ points in the first half, yet the Lakers were still down at that point, so it was Phil who called for more distribution, and he has said that himself. Not only that, but Kobe's heart and determination is what got the '06 Lakers, a rebuilding team with no true expectations, to that point in the first place...to compare Kobe in that situation to LeBron in his current situation is not only wrong, but completely off. LeBron showed no true passion to win, and it not only shows in his game and postgame interviews, but in his body language as well. Did you even see him looking upset when they lost? He walks off the court as if it's just another regular season defeat...I never remember seeing Kobe look like he could give a fuck less about winning, because winning is what clearly drove Kobe to become as great as he is. LeBron was handed everything from day 1 and crowned himself "King" in high school before ever accomplishing shit, so maybe that's how he developed this "diva" personality and maybe that's why he lacks a certain drive...With Kobe, winning always came first. If it meant he didn't have a team that was built to win, he took initiative and demanded from management to either to be traded or for them to get the right pieces...WINNING- thats the first thing on his agenda, and that's what makes him an all-time GOAT. LeBron, at his current age, clearly has things on his agenda ahead of winning, like how he's gunna spend the summer chillin' with Jay-Z and what not LOL...and if that's not clear to you with the way he performed in the biggest games of his life, then I dunno what is...PeACe
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you mean when the Lakers pass him the torch?
when will you understand that Kobe cannot win alone? he was alone, barely finished .500 & lost in the playoffs, yet everybody just tries to forget those years; can't blame you Kobe stans. ;)
the Lakers are WINNING rings, Kobe is a factor in it.
Nobody wins alone...but LeBron was not alone, he has a fully capable team who has beaten the Celtics 3 times in the regular season and won 60+ games for the last 2 seasons...he simply let them down and didn't step it up when he was most needed. Make all the excuses you want, but that 3-15 performance was not only atrocious, but disgustingly obvious. It was obvious (to any sane person) that LeBron could care less, and that his heart wasn't there...that he doesn't have that champions drive...and the fact that you sit here and make excuses for it, while disregarding Kobe as just a "factor" in the Lakers winning ways is pretty pathetic, to say the least.
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^he will always just be a factor.
LeBron will just be a factor too when he wins.
you've gone completely insane if you're even thinking otherwise.
it's a team game, you can't give one man the credit for it. :loco:
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Lebron reminded me of 2006 Kobe in this series. I guess knowing that ginger man nailed your mom will do that to you.
Exactly. All the greats go through it...to say, at 26, Lebron will NEVER be as good as Kobe is straight stupid....guess how many titles MJ had at 26??
Lebron still has no post game; once he gets one, it is LIGHTS OUT for others. Antwan Jamison, Mo Williams, and a washed up Shaq ARE NOT what he needs. Neither is Mike Brown.
Kobe struggled to be the man on a championship team, Jordan struggled to win until he was 28...I'd say Lebron has some time still.
Lebron will take the loss as motivation to get better and become more of a leader. No player has ever went through a career without hardships. Lebron didn'
t play great in the playoffs, but he'll be fine and still win a couple of chips along the way.,
uh why do you people keep mentioning jordan's age when he won a title, he did at least 3 years of college????? he didn't come straight outta high school like labron and kobe get it right yell
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^he will always just be a factor.
LeBron will just be a factor too when he wins.
you've gone completely insane if you're even thinking otherwise.
it's a team game, you can't give one man the credit for it. :loco:
A team leader is not "just a factor"...Derek Fisher is a factor. Ron Artest is a factor. Andrew Bynum is a factor. Kobe Bryant is the driver. The team centers around him, just like Cleveland centers around LeBron. To call a player of Kobe's caliber a "factor" is simply a joke, but so is a lot of stuff you've said in this thread, so it comes as no surprise...PeACe
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you mean when the Lakers pass him the torch?
when will you understand that Kobe cannot win alone? he was alone, barely finished .500 & lost in the playoffs, yet everybody just tries to forget those years; can't blame you Kobe stans. ;)
the Lakers are WINNING rings, Kobe is a factor in it.
Nobody wins alone...but LeBron was not alone, he has a fully capable team who has beaten the Celtics 3 times in the regular season and won 60+ games for the last 2 seasons...he simply let them down and didn't step it up when he was most needed. Make all the excuses you want, but that 3-15 performance was not only atrocious, but disgustingly obvious. It was obvious (to any sane person) that LeBron could care less, and that his heart wasn't there...that he doesn't have that champions drive...and the fact that you sit here and make excuses for it, while disregarding Kobe as just a "factor" in the Lakers winning ways is pretty pathetic, to say the least.
NIK, I understand you feel the need to dis Lebron as Kobe has got his fair share of both warranted AND unwarranted criticisms.
You DO have to admit though, when the Celtics dismantled the Lakers in Game 6 to win the championship and Kobe barely even showed up, you defended him. In that series, the LAKERS WERE THE FAVOURITES but did not win, and Kobe did not play with much HEART in the series clincher. Sound familiar?
Or, MAYBE neither player got a ton of help from his respective teammates as well; Jamison, the second best Cavs player, was 1-9 shooting, and Mo Williams disappeared in the second half.
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^he will always just be a factor.
LeBron will just be a factor too when he wins.
you've gone completely insane if you're even thinking otherwise.
it's a team game, you can't give one man the credit for it. :loco:
A team leader is not "just a factor"...Derek Fisher is a factor. Ron Artest is a factor. Andrew Bynum is a factor. Kobe Bryant is the driver. The team centers around him, just like Cleveland centers around LeBron. To call a player of Kobe's caliber a "factor" is simply a joke, but so is a lot of stuff you've said in this thread, so it comes as no surprise...PeACe
well it's like this when u have kids that know nothing about basketball or are just followers shyt gets twisted, instead of recognizing the truth they try to argue with people that have seen more & know more...its a never ending battle these days but everyone eventually sees the light, i was there once so yea just give em time...usually the end results teaches them ;)
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e. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
LMAO LMAO LMAO
what a fucking toolbag comment
remember how until last year everyone was saying Kobe was nothing but a "2nd tier" player?
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e. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
LMAO LMAO LMAO
what a fucking toolbag comment
remember how until last year everyone was saying Kobe was nothing but a "2nd tier" player?
lol at kobe being a 2nd tier player in 08-09 matter of fact 05-06, 06-07 also. lmfao
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where were his rings without Shaq?
wanna tell me that babycakes
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where were his rings without Shaq?
wanna tell me that babycakes
i'm still looking for that answer, but it's the most dodged point in this thread. :laugh:
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^he will always just be a factor.
LeBron will just be a factor too when he wins.
you've gone completely insane if you're even thinking otherwise.
it's a team game, you can't give one man the credit for it. :loco:
A team leader is not "just a factor"...Derek Fisher is a factor. Ron Artest is a factor. Andrew Bynum is a factor. Kobe Bryant is the driver. The team centers around him, just like Cleveland centers around LeBron. To call a player of Kobe's caliber a "factor" is simply a joke, but so is a lot of stuff you've said in this thread, so it comes as no surprise...PeACe
they are much bigger factors than other players, but they all play a role for winning.
he couldn't do it without those other factors (as he's proved), who happen to be All-Stars lol.
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hey chamill...my q got dodged
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where were his rings without Shaq?
wanna tell me that babycakes
lol so not winning rings makes him a 2nd tier player? so damn lebron must be way down that list than huh? i wasnt even talking about rings im talking about kobe being considered a 2nd tier player.
hes been the best player in the league for years.
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LMAO@ this thread
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yall laker niggas is bitches
better hope lebron is stupid enough to stay in cleveland
if he goes to a good team with good players lakers are fucked
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yall laker niggas is bitches
better hope lebron is stupid enough to stay in cleveland
if he goes to a good team with good players lakers are fucked
Lmao....Kids ::)
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yall laker niggas is bitches
better hope lebron is stupid enough to stay in cleveland
if he goes to a good team with good players lakers are fucked
Lmao....Kids ::)
you've brought such insight to this thread. :laugh:
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you mean when the Lakers pass him the torch?
when will you understand that Kobe cannot win alone? he was alone, barely finished .500 & lost in the playoffs, yet everybody just tries to forget those years; can't blame you Kobe stans. ;)
the Lakers are WINNING rings, Kobe is a factor in it.
Nobody wins alone...but LeBron was not alone, he has a fully capable team who has beaten the Celtics 3 times in the regular season and won 60+ games for the last 2 seasons...he simply let them down and didn't step it up when he was most needed. Make all the excuses you want, but that 3-15 performance was not only atrocious, but disgustingly obvious. It was obvious (to any sane person) that LeBron could care less, and that his heart wasn't there...that he doesn't have that champions drive...and the fact that you sit here and make excuses for it, while disregarding Kobe as just a "factor" in the Lakers winning ways is pretty pathetic, to say the least.
NIK, I understand you feel the need to dis Lebron as Kobe has got his fair share of both warranted AND unwarranted criticisms.
You DO have to admit though, when the Celtics dismantled the Lakers in Game 6 to win the championship and Kobe barely even showed up, you defended him. In that series, the LAKERS WERE THE FAVOURITES but did not win, and Kobe did not play with much HEART in the series clincher. Sound familiar?
Or, MAYBE neither player got a ton of help from his respective teammates as well; Jamison, the second best Cavs player, was 1-9 shooting, and Mo Williams disappeared in the second half.
Lakers got outplayed by Boston.. it wasn't about heart or desire, as it clearly was with this Cav team...and Kobe was so devastated after that loss that the only thing on his mind for 1 year straight was redeeming himself and winning the championship the following season...Did Lebron appear to you as someone who was devastated after that loss to Boston? To me, he looked more like "my job is done here...good thing I don't have to come to work for two more series's before I bounce from this bitch"...LOL. LeBron is about glitz and glamor, not about results...dude simply hides from the pressure. When he stops dancing like a fag before pre-game warmups, thats when you'll know he's serious about winning and taking it to the next level...PeACe
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e. The current LeBron would have to play 2nd-tier to a player like Kobe to win a ring, and that's all there really is to it.
LMAO LMAO LMAO
what a fucking toolbag comment
remember how until last year everyone was saying Kobe was nothing but a "2nd tier" player?
Does the current LeBron look or act like a team leader on a championship team? Do you even remember what he said after his Game 5 3-15 performance?
"I spoil a lot of people with my play. When you have three bad games in seven years, it’s easy to point them out.”
What a joke...can't even man up to his poor performance. What a spoiled self-minded thing to say after such an important game on one of basketball's biggest stages, which was pretty much lost by his poor play. That's not gunna get it done as a team leader, and you know it.
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I made this thread on another board...check some responses:
i do think kobe bryant handles the pressure more than lebron. i do think kobe is by far the more banged up player, but he never uses injuries as an excuse. lebron says he doesn't, but when cleveland is having their s--- pushed in, he favors his elbow more than usual. kobe is playing with broken bones but unless he clearly gets whacked on his injured spots, he never shows like hes wounded. he plays on pure adrenaline and he's fearless out there. he takes huge shots, is very crafty, and is very timely. he's also been using his teammates more of late to keep himself fresh for those big moments, and i dont think lebron has learned how to do that just yet. lebron can get to the cup at will, but if kobe bryant has the ball with 20 seconds left in the game, you are more concerned than if lebron had the ball.
but anyway, this is all moot. really, lebron needs to win. if he doesn't win, he doesn't have a legacy to stack up with a player like kobe. its as simple as that. the argument isn't if lebron is a better player than kobe right now, kobe is declining when lebron is hitting stride right now. but kobe has always wanted the big shot in the clutch, he's always been a no excuse im going to carry this team in the final few minutes sort of player. lebron still hasn't consistently shown that. he's had flashes, and glorious flashes, but you don't see that killer instinct yet. until then, kobe bryant will have a leg up on him in a category that separated really good players from great players. its such a big factor that kobe now, a player who is clearly past his prime, still hangs around the conversation against lebron in terms of who is better. all because kobe is killer to close games, while lebron simply hasn't shown it.
the only way lebron really can show it is rings. he needs to be the closer on this team. if he doesn't show that, then he'll always have a knock on his game. simple at that. he can't fall on the "my team sucks" or "my elbow hurts me during games when my team loses" excuse anymore. his team has been built for the playoffs and built specifically to beat the other contenders. put up or shutup.
Kobe = Champion
LayBron = nothing.....yet
shouldnt be much of a discussion IMO....
oh "Bron Bron" hurt his lil elbow?....Kobe plays hurt ALL th time, has the heart that the "Queen" James will never have. Kobe came into the league and had to PROVE himself, thats the difference...Mofo's were giving "the"Bron the name "King" his first year in the league...he needs to come down to earth and realize he aint $hit until he wins something.
i don't recall ever seeing any of the greats go without sinking a FG in the first half of a MASSIVE series tied at 2-2... and then letting their team get smoked and only draining 3 FGs all game long. it was nice and cute that he said he wanted to guard rondo, but words only go so far.
...glad you brought that up.
It was cute that he said he would guard Rondo...but honestly? I doubt Lebron could even guard Rondo, Rondo is too quick and is so creative with the way he runs that offense. Lebron would get burned....yea maybe Lebron could check a PG that is "shoot -first", but a Pg like Rondo? no way. I dont care what Lebron said, coach Mike Brown KNOWS that he cant gaurd Rondo....
Kobe on the other hand? he could guard Rondo all series....look at what he did to Westbrook. That series was sliding in favor of the Thunder...Kobe realized he had to take Westbrook out of the offense, he did it...game over.
good points.
HOWEVER it is important to realize while kobe guarded rondo and effectively took him out of most of the series, it did enable another player that he would guard, whether it was allen or pierce, to have a big series. ultimately, boston won that series because of their big three, not because of rondo. it was also a very, very different rondo. so, cleveland does have a point saying if they switched lebron off to rondo, then pierce would just get off.
nevertheless, lebron should still take it upon himself to guard rondo because rondo has definitely been the most dominant player in this series, and say screw it to other things that might result from the switch. while its a different rondo in this series, its also an aged, more ragged paul pierce. kobe took it on himself to take out westbrook, lebron still hasn't done that. while his "id love the challenge of guarding rondo" was on every other fucking espn article, they conveniently left out "..if the coaching staff were to ask me."
lebron is the most physically gifted player probably in nba history. but he still hasn't proven the mettle.
if they lose this series, he will be labeled a choker until he wins a ring. and frankly, its his fault. his performance today was absolutely embarrassing and, funny enough, was the most embarassing performance from a superstar player since kobe closed up shop in phoenix for game 7. but, unlike lebron, kobe was just being a brat and trying to make a selfish point, it wasn't because kobe didn't have the gear to carry his team in the clutch moments.
lebron's performance tonight was inexcusable. he played passive all night, and didn't even look to take big shots. something i saw right away from a young kobe bryant, living here in la, was an eye for the moment. bryant airballed two threes in utah in a series the team lost as a rookie, but he wanted the shot and stepped to it on a team filled with players that didn't want to take the shot. it's been a quality he's had from the getgo, a willingness to seize the moment, a drive for that moment, holding that moment above all else, and defining his career based on that moment. right now, the argument against lebron isn't against his capability, it's against his willingness to seize the moment. there actually isn't any other argument against him, as he's improved his game so much over the years.
i understand lebron's career arc is incredible, straight out of high school, to put up these stats. he will undoubtedly break all sorts of absurd statistical records based on the willingness of a franchise to put their team on his talented shoulders from the getgo. but, until he does it on the big stage, he's going to have to deal with the label of not being able to get it done on the big stage. jordan also went through it. he finally figured it out, we have to wait for lebron to figure it out. cleveland has done everything, everything to surround him with excellent role players. more than anything he might be proving that a team cannot win a championship amongst elite teams without a legit second option. (dwyane got it done, but as you said, it was during a time without real elite teams with 2 real viable guys) chris webber also had a brilliant statistical career, but in the end his greatness never came, because he never showed the mettle in big games. webber also had his share of big moments against lesser teams, he had teams stacked with talent, but he could never come up clutch in the biggest moments of his career, namely game 7 against the lakers. (i realize that lebron has shown much more capability than webber already, but this just shows that stats mean little in really proving greatness)
as of now, comparing kobe's legacy to lebron's, its unfair because of the times when they entered the league. but kobe's legacy undoubtedly has a leg up and lebron has a lot to prove before he gets there. stats only get you so far, the great players measure up against each other based on their ability to lead their teams to championships. lebron needs to find a team that will surround him with great players and a legit 2nd option thats comparable to a pau gasol, or a scottie pippen, hell someone better and younger than antawn jamison, otherwise, he's going to have a hard time winning titles with the commitment the lakers and magic have shown to improving their teams. magic had kareem, bird had mcale, jordan had pippen, even the big three had each other. had you asked me to talk about kobe's legacy after his disgraceful performance in game 7 against the suns, yeah i wouldve seen it as pretty tarnished, but his team turned it around. he also had an active part in that, damn near demanding a trade out before management figured they really needed to put talent, substantial talent around the guy. lebron has gotten talent, and antawn jamison is a damn good player, but he might need more. even without more, you need to show more in this moment, this game, the biggest game of your career. but to win rings on a grand scale, he definitely needs a legit second fiddle with him.
lebron has the chance the be the greatest player ever. but he isn't close to that yet until he can come up big in the truly big moments. he might need more help until he gets to those moments, but so did many brilliant players in league history. those players never got the chance. at the end of the year, if he doesn't get a ring, he'll be able to find a team whose management is ready to step up and give him an opportunity to really be the greatest player with proper complimentary players to elevate his team to a level of greatness. to be that great, he needs rings, and he needs to have a resume filled with seizing big moments. it's that simple.
The problem with Lebron is that there is no one to hold him in check. He's bigger than the city. In LA, Jackson holds Kobe in check, thats why you hear about Gasol complaining that Kobe takes too many shots. Jamison says that in Cleveland, and he'll never see a meaningful game in that city again. He runs the team. He's the player and the boss. No one wants to cross him or come close to being important as him. Some kid dunked on him, and he freaked out. He's the alpha dog, who isn't receptive to anyone else. Maybe its a byproduct of always being better than anyone and his gifts alone leading him to winning before he came to the NBA. Its entrenched in him. Kobe fought this with Shaq, the whole reason for their fallout. Shaq was the alpha dog, and Kobe was Pippen to them. When Kobe got better than Shaq, the fight ensued. I believe Kobe was heading out of LA, before they made that trade for Gasol, and had Kobe understand that he needs another stud player. No one is doing that with Lebron. He is bigger than the team.
I don't think its a criticism of ability, its a criticism of mentality. Its rare that you can win with one guy being the be all for a team. And failure sprouts the willingness to change. Part of this can't be blamed on Lebron, more on the front office. But there were games that Jamison absolutely disappeared, wasn't involved at all. That falls on Lebron. And it doesn't fall on the coach, Lebron runs that team, Mike Brown will be fired in a NY minute if he upsets Lebron. If he learns to differ to other players when he doesn't have it on some nights, the team will start to win.
A good example. When Kobe missed that shot against the Thunder in Game 6, Gasol went for the offensive rebound and put it back in. In my imagination, everyone of Cavs roster would've stood their ground and watched that shot.
I'm interested to hear from the Lebron apologists after last night's game. I know it's only one game, but I never saw anything like it.
We've gone over the supporting cast, so we don't need to rehash. Cleveland has had the best record in the NBA the last 2 seasons. So that argument is not valid. But either way, great players make those around them better. His team didn't know how to play without him yesterday.
And last night, Lebron didn't just have an off night, he looked disinterested. 2-10 in the 2nd half and only 2 FTs. Sat around the arc like a role player. He absolutely disappeared. I've seen superstars have bad games in big situations. But I've never seen one appear to have no interest in trying to win it. All the greats put their teams on their back and are willing to win or lose that way. Lebron hid.
The series isn't over. But if CLE doesn't even make the conference finals, let alone the NBA finals, the questions about his character and drive will only get louder.
When Lebron stops dancing during pre game warmups and starts feeling the pressure to become a champion...then he will start winning championships.
At this stage in Lebron's career, he still doesnt "get it". When Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith start labelling Lebron as Patrick Ewing or Karl Malone...then he will start to feel the pressure. Basketball right now for Lebron is more entertainment than anything else. Why? He belongs in a generation that just wants to get paid big money. He is more interested in the Money Trophy than the Championship Trophy. I hope he eventually figures it out that an elite NBA player's legacy is defined by championships.
Very simple input: After the worst home playoff loss in franchise history the man said
"I spoil a lot of people with my play. When you have three bad games in seven years, it’s easy to point them out.”
Are you KIDDING? Man up to your poor performance, get angry and get motivated. What a spoiled self-minded thing to say after such an important game on one of basketball's biggest stages was pretty much lost by his poor play. I'm a huge fan of his game (who isn't?) but his character (or lack thereof) is driving me away.
^^Now be fair. In his defense, he has a lot on his plate. He needs to look cool throwing the dust in the air, pretending to snap pictures of his teammates, and worry about no one being a follower and wearing #23 (except after him, of course).
By the way, if the Cavs lose this series. Watch on tv how Lebron accepts losing. Watch his body language. Does he care? Is it important? Or is he thinking about how he will spend the summer with JayZ? Listen to his post game interview and see if even cares.
Kobe utterly hates to lose! Im talking livid to the point where it ate away at him! This quality is what makes an NBA legend. Magic had it. Jordan had it. Bird had it.
Legend and greatness simply are NOT words to be used when talking about Lebron. At least not yet...
[/b]
"I spoil a lot of people with my play. When you have three bad games in seven years, it's easy to point them out."
LOL! He really said this? So in his mind...he accepts losing? LOL! As Yoda would say, "An NBA Champion he is not..."
"I spoil a lot of people with my play. When you have three bad games in seven years, it's easy to point them out."
this quote is absurd.
it's funny to everyone outside ohio, but it's absolutely devastating to everyone inside the state. OK, you had an AWFUL game, arguably your worst game your career during the most important time of it. ok fine. but this? do you think this is what the fragile fragile fragile cleveland psyche needs to hear? guess what lebron, you've had 3 games THIS SERIES where your effort was questionable. (not including the first half of game 1) this city, more than ever, needs to believe. dont give them that crap. spoiled? you're down 3-2 to a team EVERYONE expected you to easily handle. you're saying this now?
you had a bad game, ok. but learn how to handle these situations, media king. this is when you need to be angry. not ho hum, we lost this game, i had a bad game, you guys shouldn't always expect me to have great games.
in a game of this magnitude, after you've been arrogantly donning that crowd all these years, yes, you are expected to have a great game during the big moments. if you can't deal with it, then stop strutting around on the bench during 20 point blowouts in a regular season game.
What are people going to say after Lebron drops 50 tonight and dominates the game? It WILL happen, tonight is going to be a performance to remember, Cavs will win this series and Lebron will be the reason why, bet it. Lebron has a bad game now he has no heart and doesn't care? lol people are ridiculous but well see how the conversation turns after tonight's performance because he is going to come ready to play, im expecting huge things tonight to silence the haters.
^^LOL
As I said earlier, many people have bad games. That wasn't just a bad game. He didn't appear to be trying. He floated around the arc like he was Steve Kerr. And I'm not the only one who thinks that way. Did he look like he wanted to win at all costs to you? Because that what champions, and those in consideration for the best player in the NBA, do.
Love how anyone who doesn't kneel before King James is considered a hater. He's got tremendous skills. But he is not a great leader or a champion at this point. He may play great tonight. That doesn't change the fact that he played last game with no heart. No will to win.
And even if they somehow win 2 in a row, that's not gonna silence me. 2 years in a row his team was good enough to have the best record in the NBA, and you'll be excited if they make it to the E. Conference Finals? Supposed best player in the league. Best record in the league. If he doesn't win a championship....again....my view of him will be the same.
you know i understand people referencing the kobe game 7 meltdown, i think i mightve actually been the first to cite it.
but those lakers were never favorites to win a title. nor did they have the best record in the league. 2 years in a row. they weren't expected past the suns, in fact kobe had to pull some serious heroics to get them that far. the dude also went absolutely bonkers in game 6, did practically everything to get that team over the hump.
lebron has had not only had 3 pretty bad games in this series, he's had three games where he just hasn't shown much effort. 3 and a half, really, including an effortless first half in game 1. last year against orlando, lebron laid it all out there. no faulting him then, he still led his team with all he could, particularly in a great game 4, just couldn't get over the hump. but if he finishes this series while showing little effort during the majority of it? people have every right to question his killer instinct.
it comes with the territory, lebron.
I still don't get this argument about the team.
Exactly one NBA team has won 60+ games both this season and last. The Cavs. Yes it's mainly because of LeBron, but clearly their good enough.
Against Boston? Cavs were 3-1 this season. The one loss was the first game of the season. Cavs had beat the Celtics 3 straight times.
So what's happened? Clearly they follow the lead of LeBron. Regular season champs, and fold in the playoffs.
Wow! Lebron is really accepting of losing. He wears a Cavs uniform but his heart isnt in it.
9 Turnovers? Dang! that just means they are running isolations all day as their set offense. I thought Kobe was bad...hogging the ball pre-Gasol but this was worse.
Lebron is supposed to be the leader of this team and you dont see him leading, motivating, getting upset at his teammates for playing with no energy.
Mike Brown is THE WORST PLAYOFF COACH. I swear if you were to monitor brain activity of Mike Brown. The diagnosis would be brain freeze.
Did anyone notice where Shaq was in the 4th quarter on their try for a comeback? On the bench!
Hey, at least the Cavs had the best regular season record and NBA MVP. Moral victories are always good but those kinds of victories dont get you an NBA championship!
Last night's performance was better, but still not good enough imo. The success of entire cavs team is predicated on Defense, outside shooting and LBJ to close out games. LBJ has not delivered the last piece of the puzzle in playoff games in a consistent fashion. Furthermore, I'm still a firm beleiver that he dominates the basketball too much. LBJ choose not to let a Robin shine (Mo Williams or even Jamison) because of his propensity to dominate the ball for 44 mins per game. Whether this conscious or subconscious or not we'll never know. I would argue that Mo never got a chance to get into a groove because he has been relegated to playing off the ball. You got a chance to see what he is capable of last night a bit when he had the rock in his hands. Mo williams was a dynamic playmaker and scorer in his days in Milwaukee. The problem is that because Lebron dominates the ball he is relegated to being a spot up jumpshooter which doesnt maximize his basketball offerings.
It's funny how all these "Lebron lovers" say how great a player he is to lead a team blah blah blah. But after last night's performance...none of these "Lebron Lovers" are back on this thread to reply regarding last night's game.
It's so sad for Lebron to perform this way in front of Cavs fans. Last I checked Lebron's birth certificate does say "Born in the State of Ohio"
Lebron "Diva" James, you are a sellout! Cleveland and the state of Ohio gave you everything. Go to New York! Im sure you have enough money to change your birth certificate to "Born in New York"
Lebron "Diva" James, your reputation has now been tarnished! You gave up on the most important game of the season. It was worse than I predicted. Im sorry but the next team you play for will now consider this performance when giving you that extra $1 million.
There is no comparison between Kobe and Lebron...at least for now there isnt. This elitist attitude Lebron James has is sickening...you know how it goes, "Im Lebron James. I hang out with Jay Z. Im too good to be playing for Cleveland!"
This makes me miss Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird even more. When you play to win at all costs and leave everything on the court.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsDq...ncalipari051410
Just a few snippets:
As James marched his way toward the interview room, his stable of agents, middlemen and childhood chums had to walk fast to keep up with him. They never do like letting King James out of their sights.
Together, they have big ideas, bigger plans and the biggest agenda this sport’s ever seen. The playoffs move on without LBJ, but deep down it reassures him that the Boston Celtics and Orlando Magic will never be as big of a story as the suspense he and his hangers-on will spin together.
“Me and my team, we have a game plan that we’re gong to execute,” James said.
Yes, his team. That’s where James’ loyalties lie, where together they’ll chase the one title he’s forever chased: the biggest free agent of his generation.
Together, these narcissists will manufacture a drama that will undermine the conference and NBA Finals, the NBA draft and Fourth of July parades in small towns and big cities across America. James and the Cavs lost Game 6 of the conference semifinals to the Boston Celtics, 94-85, but he hardly seemed devastated in the losing locker room.
Truth be told, James did something no champion would’ve ever dared: He quit on his teammates in Game 5 and that made it easy for the rest of them – and James – to quit in the final minutes of Game 6. This has been an indictment of the coaching staff and organization, but James, too. Mostly, James. The Cavs have turned out to be a great regular season team unfit for the playoffs, but James was the most responsible for this collapse in the conference semifinals. There was no culprit even a close second.
Still, James will get over it fast because he engages in so little self-examination. In his mind, and that of his cast of sycophants, blame belongs on his coach, Mike Brown, for his lousy adjustments and game plans. It belongs to general manager Danny Ferry for the unworthy teammates. James was no MVP in this series, but no one stays in his employ with impure thoughts of accountability.
The next time you hear James, as the franchise star, say, “This was on me,” will be the first. All around James, his yes men never require him to deal in the currency of truth. Aaron Goodwin, his old agent, tried to be honest with him and his high school buddies, and it got him fired five years ago.
whoa wait a minute. Does he not anoint himself "King James"? Last i checked, King means head of state, leader, or chief. Dont u just love it when someone anoints himself King....enjoys all the glory of the role but when there is criticism he runs and hides (to New York) because his performance is NOT up to par with his image!
he deserves criticism. his arrogance is why i don't like him, coupled with the fact that he likes to be a media darling.
but he's getting absolutely murdered by the media. ive never seen someone get ripped apart like hes been since game 5. part of me enjoys that he's getting all of it, but another part remembers that he's 25 and has a bit more maturing to do as a basketball player. people are going a little overboard with all this, its the conference semis, we have other things to talk about.
that and that he's simply not michael jordan. jordan's name should not be brought up in comparison with these other players, i don't care how great lebron has been since his career started. he's quit on his team 3 games in a row. jordan would've never done that.
random thoughts
I'm 24 turning 25 this summer and feel Lebron's immaturity is not a factor of his age alone. I feel that although I and many of my friends have alot of growing left to do, we're ahead of this guy in that dept. It's a copout defense of him.
Micheal Jordan won his 1st championship at 28, right?
I don't want to hear anything else about James at this point lol. We have 2 nice series coming up and we've had to listen to this "summer of Lebron" hype for so long I just want him to do what he will with as little media exposure as possible and be done with it. Which wont happen of course.
Echoing the statements of so many, he really didn't look hungry. Looked fairly apathetic all considered.
Kareem Abdul Jabaar said last week that he thinks the draft age minimum should be 21. I agree. You can be mature enough in body or skill and lack the proper discipline or mental toughness to play in the majors with the heart of a real contender/champion. Look at Freddy Adu (soccer reference, ouch) and now the very talented, but whiny and immature James. Here's hoping he proves me wrong in the future.
calling LeBron's supporting cast "garbage" is simply laughable.
As I pointed out earlier, the Cavs have been the best team in the NBA for 2 straight years. Only team with 60+ wins both years. So explain to me how LeBron is able to win all these games, despite the "garbage" he's surrounded with, yet can't get it done in the playoffs.
I think a better comparison for LeBron is Dirk Nowitzki. Can lead his team to the #1 seed, just can't win when it counts.
are you serious? What, are you saying CLE was the best regular season team in the league the last TWO years with GARBAGE players? Take off your Bron Bron panties for a second man...ok? Jordan had Pippen....and? who else? exactly NO ONE...he made his role players BETTER....you hear tat? JORDAN MADE "GARBAGE" PLAYERS BETTER. You think Jordan REALLY thought that Scottie Pippen was the best player CHI could have brought in?? Not a chance....but Jordan took what he had and made everyone better. Something Laydown James did not do....Jamison is a very good player, Mo willaims is a more than capable Pg, the rest of the CLE players are perfect ROLE players to surround James. Calling himself "King" since high school as really stunted his ability to accept his teammates for what they are.
the Lakers "bought" a whole new team for Kobe?....are you talking about Gasol? Open your eyes, compared to the CAVs role players, are the Lakers THAT much better? How exactly did the Lakers go BUY a whole new team?
Lebron will most likely be the second best player to ever play the game, but he has a lot of growing up to do. Yea Kobe got Gasol, but if he didnt mature before that they would have never one that last Championship. Bottom line is Kobe has figured it out...just like Jordan did, Kobe figured out what it takes to lead a team and be a Champ. Lebron will get there eventually, but right now his arrogance is sickening.
Im laughing at some of the comments made on this thread and....I thought id itemize a few
1. Garnett NEVER gave up when playing in MINNY. That is the difference!
2. The Cavs had the best record this season. What does this mean? Garbage players dont win 60+ games. Conclusion: Lebron had enough of a supporting cast to win a championship. Are you ready for what im going to say? Lebron had an enough of a supporting cast to win a championship....IF HE DIDNT QUIT on his team. Quitting on your team is a HUGE factor ESPECIALLY if you are the leader/"King" of your respective team.
3. Dirk Nowitzki? Cmon now. This guy shouldnt even be the 1st option.
4. Oh and by the way...I wake up this morning and I read that Lebron is courting Calipari to be his next coach. WTF is that! It must be because Calipari will let him dance during pre game warmups. Does Lebron really think this highly of himself that he can go out and hand pick his next coach? I would love to see Lebron's house. Im pretty sure he has pictures and art of himself in every room! Watch out Chicago Bulls! Here comes the next biggest/wanna be diva of our generation!
Did anybody friggin watch this last game of Lebron? It's unbelievable how noone has commented on it.
The guy was just eliminated from the playoffs and all he does is strut off the court like it was a regular season game against the Golden State Warriors. There wasnt a speck of disappointment on his face! There wasnt a speck of anger on his face. To win 60+ games and have nothing to show for it and you just walk off the court?
Watch him here after he hugs Rondo at the 4:41 mark.
I want you to specifically watch Lebron at the 5:06 mark when he takes off his Cavs jersey. What do you think he is telling himself as he walks off the court? Which of these below does NOT fit?
A. "Great season. I tried my hardest and left everything on the floor giving 100%. See you again next year Cleveland. I definitely need to get together with management to help improve this team and bring a championship to the city of Cleveland."
B. "Im tired. Where Jay Z at?"
C. "I hate this jersey. Ill never win a championship here."
D. "My work is done. Thank goodness I dont have to work overtime by playing a conference finals and NBA finals."
E. "I won 60 games for this damn city and brought home another MVP. My work is done. You dont pay me enough so you want me to win a championship for this city too?"
Answer: Most Definitely A.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4kuu7CiiWY
LeBron can win the regular season games when nothing's riding on it, but when the pressure's on, LeBron fails. To this point in his career, this has been the case. He chokes in big games because....playoffs are a different animal.
And are you really trying to say that teams don't try as hard and focus on LeBron during the regular season? Please. Sad excuse. Everyone always focuses on LeBron. Every game. Even preseason. LeBron just didn't get it done.
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People over analyze players' reactions after a win or loss. Guarantee people would talk shit if Lebron would have shown more emotion after a loss, people would say oh look at this tantrum very immature. If he cries, "look at this cry baby, take the loss like a man". Everybody reacts differently, there isn't a certain championship way to take a loss lol
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Lakers.com forum, NIK?
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People over analyze players' reactions after a win or loss. Guarantee people would talk shit if Lebron would have shown more emotion after a loss, people would say oh look at this tantrum very immature. If he cries, "look at this cry baby, take the loss like a man". Everybody reacts differently, there isn't a certain championship way to take a loss lol
^Right, because humans don't have personalities, and personalities don't show through emotion...Just like playing under tightened circumstances doesn't have an affect on certain players games. Your input in this thread has been awkward LOL.
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Lakers.com forum, NIK?
Not at all, that was from a fantasy basketball forum filled with LeBron nutriders
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People over analyze players' reactions after a win or loss. Guarantee people would talk shit if Lebron would have shown more emotion after a loss, people would say oh look at this tantrum very immature. If he cries, "look at this cry baby, take the loss like a man". Everybody reacts differently, there isn't a certain championship way to take a loss lol
^Right, because humans don't have personalities, and personalities don't show through emotion...Just like playing under tightened circumstances doesn't have an affect on certain players games. Your input in this thread has been awkward LOL.
Thanks for making my point even better. Personalities vary from person to person, not everybody reacts the same way.
Clutch moments happen, clutch players do not exist----keep laughing at that all you want. Logic is on my side.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2aN4S2fGoA
listen to the GM of the Red Sox talk about personalities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2aN4S2fGoA
he starts at the 3:30 mark
basically expands on my points
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A-Rod is the prime example for "clutchness".
he's had the worst post-season & he's had a GODLY post-season; how does one improve like that if "clutch/showing up in crunch time/stepping up" is an "attribute" you're born with? lol.
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yall laker niggas is bitches
better hope lebron is stupid enough to stay in cleveland
if he goes to a good team with good players lakers are fucked
Lmao....Kids ::)
you've brought such insight to this thread. :laugh:
Lmao, nigga u haven't showed me anything with your halfassed twisted theories, i mean the fact that you even sayin let's go suns in that other thread knowing they a done deal is all i need to know about u....... ;)
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People over analyze players' reactions after a win or loss. Guarantee people would talk shit if Lebron would have shown more emotion after a loss, people would say oh look at this tantrum very immature. If he cries, "look at this cry baby, take the loss like a man". Everybody reacts differently, there isn't a certain championship way to take a loss lol
^Right, because humans don't have personalities, and personalities don't show through emotion...Just like playing under tightened circumstances doesn't have an affect on certain players games. Your input in this thread has been awkward LOL.
Thanks for making my point even better. Personalities vary from person to person, not everybody reacts the same way.
Clutch moments happen, clutch players do not exist----keep laughing at that all you want. Logic is on my side.
I guess some people are just better at reading reactions than others. Claiming there is no such thing as a clutch players is just ridiculous and actually goes against common sense and logic, my dude.
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If it was common sense, it wouldn't be so hard to prove.
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See, that's the difference. Kobe is missing and bricking shots like a stupid fag today, still the Lakers are having the lead and he can pass the ball to his teammates who handle that shit. If LeBron sucks as bad as Kobe today, the Cavs fall apart completely against a good team.
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See, that's the difference. Kobe is missing and bricking shots like a stupid fag today, still the Lakers are having the lead and he can pass the ball to his teammates who handle that shit. If LeBron sucks as bad as Kobe today, the Cavs fall apart completely against a good team.
And that somehow doesn't fall on LeBron's leadership? It's up to LeBron to get them involved, if he really makes teammates better, like everyone says. Cleveland was fully capable of beating Boston and that's not arguable. Kobe also wasn't shooting bad (8-18 from the field) and at the same time he got everyone involved, considering the defense was more focused on him today...13 assists with only 2 numbers...another great performance. 8)
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If it was common sense, it wouldn't be so hard to prove.
it's doesn't take groundbreaking research to know that some people run from pressure, while others embrace it. it's obviously human nature, and shit that applies to every day situations also applies to sports...PeACe
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See, that's the difference. Kobe is missing and bricking shots like a stupid fag today, still the Lakers are having the lead and he can pass the ball to his teammates who handle that shit. If LeBron sucks as bad as Kobe today, the Cavs fall apart completely against a good team.
The problem with this argument is LeBron was built on making others better, but knowing when to shoot and take over games. His still growing. In a couple of years, I expect him to win the NBA title with whatever team his on. But for now, it's Kobe's world and the Lakers are just better. LeBron will never be Kobe, never be Michael, Magic, Dr. J, Baylor or any other great player. But at the end of the day, LeBron will be LeBron, and that will be good enough to win titles and make it to any all time list in his own right. No matter what Sccit says, LeBron is good, just not great, at least not now. I remind Sccit to watch Kobe 2005-2007 trying to win with Smush and Kwame, and lets not forget Sccit defended Kwame until he was blue in the face. Okay, let us never mention Kwame was a Laker again.
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If it was common sense, it wouldn't be so hard to prove.
it's doesn't take groundbreaking research to know that some people run from pressure, while others embrace it. it's obviously human nature, and shit that applies to every day situations also applies to sports...PeACe
If it's measured as easy as you say, there should be some sort of proof that a player is clutch. Eyes are deceiving and there is no evidence to state that. Common sense can easily be backed up with proof.
Did you ever think about this? Some teams are not overall in the better shape than other teams? I would say that's a the key reason the Dodger pitching fucked in the playoffs last year. Young arms are not used to be going in 200+ into the playoffs. Mainstream media and mainstream fans attributed this to lack of heart in the playoffs, or lack of playing under pressure. That's a whole lot of BS to justify why somebody fails. On the other hand, there is real truth in the fatigue aspect of an argument for the failure of a team.
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See, that's the difference. Kobe is missing and bricking shots like a stupid fag today, still the Lakers are having the lead and he can pass the ball to his teammates who handle that shit. If LeBron sucks as bad as Kobe today, the Cavs fall apart completely against a good team.
And that somehow doesn't fall on LeBron's leadership? It's up to LeBron to get them involved, if he really makes teammates better, like everyone says. Cleveland was fully capable of beating Boston and that's not arguable. Kobe also wasn't shooting bad (8-18 from the field) and at the same time he got everyone involved, considering the defense was more focused on him today...13 assists with only 2 numbers...another great performance. 8)
Thing is, it's easier to "lead" a team of players who can create for themselves and finish off nice passes from you, than to lead a team of players who are just lost at times. I'm sure you remember Kobe's disgusted faces back when his teammates sucked dick for the first time in his career. It's not that long ago. I've seen so many great LeBron passes bricked by guys like Varejao. Then the Cavs had the problem that they got Shaq and Jamison, 2 big names you can't just exclude from rotation if you are a bad coach like Mike Brown, and also 2 guys who don't contribute to the only real strength the Cavs have besides LeBron: team defense.
Anywho, before you crucify LeBron we still have to see 1) how the Lakers do against Boston and 2) how LeBron does in a talented team with a good coach
I still favor the Lakers to win the title... but with a roster of Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Artest and Bynum that shouldn't be attributed to Kobe being a God... he's not as good as he was 4 years ago - his teammates are just much better. Odom was completely lost as the 2nd best player on the team, he absolutely thrives as a bench nigga. Gasol for Kwame is a decent trade I might add, as is having Artest and Fisher instead of Walton and Smush and a matured Bynum compared to Chris Mihm.
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bottom line, LeBron CLEARLY has inferior talent to work with compared to Kobe with the Lakers & it's not even close to being debateable.
the Lakers are better than the Cavs, but LeBron is still better than Kobe.
keep saying, "he's got rings", but until you come to understand that's not an individual achievement, it's a pointless argument to bother with.
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What are you basing on that Lebron is better than Kobe ? Somebody can have 60 points, 20 assists and 20 rebounds but if his team doesn't win what's the point ? A great player must co-exist with the team and make everyone around him better. At least that's what makes the difference between a talented player and a great player imo.
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bottom line, LeBron CLEARLY has inferior talent to work with compared to Kobe with the Lakers & it's not even close to being debateable.
the Lakers are better than the Cavs, but LeBron is still better than Kobe.
keep saying, "he's got rings", but until you come to understand that's not an individual achievement, it's a pointless argument to bother with.
kobe is a better leader he dont let his team down sure they got blown the fuck out the water by the celtricks in the finals but came but and led the team to the finals again and won and he leading them again to the finals for the third straight year lebron and the cavs are just regular season beasts but when it comes to the real deal he cant lead for shit always lettin his team down he dont motivate them or leads the team hes not a real leader
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What are you basing on that Lebron is better than Kobe ? Somebody can have 60 points, 20 assists and 20 rebounds but if his team doesn't win what's the point ? A great player must co-exist with the team and make everyone around him better. At least that's what makes the difference between a talented player and a great player imo.
but that's just it, not anybody can have a 60, 20 & 20 game lol (i know he hasn't done that, before one of you jump on it ::))
& what do you mean doesn't win? with a worst cast of support, he won four more games in the regular season than Kobe.
i'm saying LeBron is great for what he does & you're replies are that Kobe is great for what his team does; for what Shaq did, for what all those moves to get him a strong cast did because otherwise your "team leader" was about to bounce to the Bulls.
NIK likes to talk about what "everybody knows", what "people who know basketball know" & it doesn't take the worlds greatest analyst to see that the Celtics are playing there best basketball all season.
they could very well beat the Lakers in the Finals & if that's the case, how can you talk shit about LeBron losing to them if Kobe with a BETTER team can't beat them..? ???
put Kobe Bryant in his absolute prime & he wouldn't of gotten that Cavs team to the Finals a few years back; he can't do it without massive help.
you Laker supporters keeping saying "you have to make the players around you better"; Gasol was already an All-Star, NIK had already said Bynum was destined to be the next Wilt Chamberlain, Artest is a proven veteran & played as expected & same with Odom.
how is Kobe "making them better"? he's just playing with amazing talents & they mesh well together.
Steve Nash is somebody who makes players better, Kobe is just playing with a stacked-ass team & winning.
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bottom line, LeBron CLEARLY has inferior talent to work with compared to Kobe with the Lakers & it's not even close to being debateable.
the Lakers are better than the Cavs, but LeBron is still better than Kobe.
keep saying, "he's got rings", but until you come to understand that's not an individual achievement, it's a pointless argument to bother with.
kobe is a better leader he dont let his team down sure they got blown the fuck out the water by the celtricks in the finals but came but and led the team to the finals again and won and he leading them again to the finals for the third straight year lebron and the cavs are just regular season beasts but when it comes to the real deal he cant lead for shit always lettin his team down he dont motivate them or leads the team hes not a real leader
How was Kobe for a real leader when he quit on his team and wanted to be traded? Y'all niggas forget real quick.
When Kobe had a bad squad, his team blew a 3-1 lead and went out in the first fucking round. Ain't nobody talkin about that anymore? I still remember his faces. They were not kinder than LeBron's.
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See, that's the difference. Kobe is missing and bricking shots like a stupid fag today, still the Lakers are having the lead and he can pass the ball to his teammates who handle that shit. If LeBron sucks as bad as Kobe today, the Cavs fall apart completely against a good team.
And that somehow doesn't fall on LeBron's leadership? It's up to LeBron to get them involved, if he really makes teammates better, like everyone says. Cleveland was fully capable of beating Boston and that's not arguable. Kobe also wasn't shooting bad (8-18 from the field) and at the same time he got everyone involved, considering the defense was more focused on him today...13 assists with only 2 numbers...another great performance. 8)
Thing is, it's easier to "lead" a team of players who can create for themselves and finish off nice passes from you, than to lead a team of players who are just lost at times. I'm sure you remember Kobe's disgusted faces back when his teammates sucked dick for the first time in his career. It's not that long ago. I've seen so many great LeBron passes bricked by guys like Varejao. Then the Cavs had the problem that they got Shaq and Jamison, 2 big names you can't just exclude from rotation if you are a bad coach like Mike Brown, and also 2 guys who don't contribute to the only real strength the Cavs have besides LeBron: team defense.
Anywho, before you crucify LeBron we still have to see 1) how the Lakers do against Boston and 2) how LeBron does in a talented team with a good coach
I still favor the Lakers to win the title... but with a roster of Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Artest and Bynum that shouldn't be attributed to Kobe being a God... he's not as good as he was 4 years ago - his teammates are just much better. Odom was completely lost as the 2nd best player on the team, he absolutely thrives as a bench nigga. Gasol for Kwame is a decent trade I might add, as is having Artest and Fisher instead of Walton and Smush and a matured Bynum compared to Chris Mihm.
Kobe's a smarrter player than he was 4 years ago, so he can most definitely control a game much better than he was able to back then, thus being a better player. Yea, he's beat up and his body wont always allow him to do the same things he was able to 4 years ago, but as a floor leader and someone who knows how to control a situation, Kobe's currently at the top of his game, as Jordan was in his 30's. Yea, Kobe has a good supporting cast, but it's not the hall-of-fame type of supporting cast that all the LeBron apologists are tryna make it seem. If LeBron was as good as some fanatics hype him up to be, his team woulda looked awesome, just like they did in the regular season. Varaejo got on the all-defense squad, Mo Williams has played so good that Cleveland was outraged when he didn't make the all-star team, Jamison was a first option on his team before being traded, and he also had a much better season than Garnett, i might add...The excuses are not cutting it, if LeBron was a true winner and lived up to the hype of "making everyone around him so much better", then the Cavs woulda looked awesone and they woulda handled the Celtics, as they were clearly capable of doing. Also, please don't compare this Cavs team, which won 60+ games in 2 consecutive seasons, to the Laker team Kobe had where Smush, Luke, and Kwame were starting, cuz that's just wrong...LeBron gave up in the most important game of his life, AFTER I started this thread. He went 3-15 and that's when his teammates knew he quit on them. That's when it was clear that there was no commodity and that's when it became obvious that LeBron has yet to get what it takes to be a winner...PeACe
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bottom line, LeBron CLEARLY has inferior talent to work with compared to Kobe with the Lakers & it's not even close to being debateable.
the Lakers are better than the Cavs, but LeBron is still better than Kobe.
keep saying, "he's got rings", but until you come to understand that's not an individual achievement, it's a pointless argument to bother with.
Don't you understand that when LeBron had the Cavs winning, EVERYBODY was saying that the Cavs team, as a whole unit, looked much better and way deeper than the Lakers? If the Cavs were still winning, that notion would still be well alive. Bottom line, LeBron had a team that was built to win and he wasn't ready to lead them. Stop making pathetic excuses and beating around the bush, because it makes you look foolish.
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bottom line, LeBron CLEARLY has inferior talent to work with compared to Kobe with the Lakers & it's not even close to being debateable.
the Lakers are better than the Cavs, but LeBron is still better than Kobe.
keep saying, "he's got rings", but until you come to understand that's not an individual achievement, it's a pointless argument to bother with.
kobe is a better leader he dont let his team down sure they got blown the fuck out the water by the celtricks in the finals but came but and led the team to the finals again and won and he leading them again to the finals for the third straight year lebron and the cavs are just regular season beasts but when it comes to the real deal he cant lead for shit always lettin his team down he dont motivate them or leads the team hes not a real leader
How was Kobe for a real leader when he quit on his team and wanted to be traded? Y'all niggas forget real quick.
When Kobe had a bad squad, his team blew a 3-1 lead and went out in the first fucking round. Ain't nobody talkin about that anymore? I still remember his faces. They were not kinder than LeBron's.
That's where Kobe's winner mentality kicks in...He saw that the Lakers were rebuilding with young and incapable players, so he demanded that the front office get him some championship caliber help, because he only plays to win. LeBron doesn't have that in him. He already thinks he's the greatest gift to God's earth and he can win all on his own, even when he has a 60+ win team around him, with a fully capable PG in Mo Williams, a former first option in Antawn Jamison, an all-nba defender in Varaejo, a hall-of-famer in Shaq, etc...Point is, LeBron made 'em all look worse on the biggest stage of his life, and if that's not bad enough, he also played like his heart wasn't in it himself, EVEN going 3-15 in the most important game of the season. All these excuses are disgusting me, and people bringing up the teams Kobe was on which weren't expected to reach the playoffs is a horrible cop-out mechanism...PeACe
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I'd never say LeBron's cast is as bad as Kobe's was back then. The Lakers had no business winning a playoff series with guys like Mihm, Walton, Kwame and Smush getting major minutes.
But neither is LeBron's cast as good as Kobe's current is.
It's just that comments like this one What are you basing on that Lebron is better than Kobe ? Somebody can have 60 points, 20 assists and 20 rebounds but if his team doesn't win what's the point ? A great player must co-exist with the team and make everyone around him better. At least that's what makes the difference between a talented player and a great player imo.
make it seem as if it was weird as hell that LeBron is not going to the finals.
Let's get away from Kobe.
Let's talk about Garnett.
A great, GREAT player in his prime, never winning shit, literally crying on camera cause his teammates suck. I am not making this up. He cried on camera in an interview, for the basic reason that he's stuck with bad teammates.
Then he gets traded to a designed championship team, partly as a favor and instantly wins the title, even though he was clearly past his very prime. And now he still contests for the title even tough he's only a shadow of his former self. He used to always play 80+ games, never being hurt, always giving his all. Now that's completely over. He digressed extremely. Still he has much better chances of winning another title than he ever had with the Timberwolves.
So let's not pretend that for some weird reason LeBron is a loser or bad leader because he's not winning titles with the fucking Cleveland Cavaliers.
I'm eager to see LeBron signing with the Bulls along with Bosh. Bosh, James, Rose and Deng could dominate the league. If LeBron fails with that kind of team, then yes, I'll be the first guy to call him a loser.
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I'd never say LeBron's cast is as bad as Kobe's was back then. The Lakers had no business winning a playoff series with guys like Mihm, Walton, Kwame and Smush getting major minutes.
But neither is LeBron's cast as good as Kobe's current is.
It's just that comments like this one What are you basing on that Lebron is better than Kobe ? Somebody can have 60 points, 20 assists and 20 rebounds but if his team doesn't win what's the point ? A great player must co-exist with the team and make everyone around him better. At least that's what makes the difference between a talented player and a great player imo.
make it seem as if it was weird as hell that LeBron is not going to the finals.
Let's get away from Kobe.
Let's talk about Garnett.
A great, GREAT player in his prime, never winning shit, literally crying on camera cause his teammates suck. I am not making this up. He cried on camera in an interview, for the basic reason that he's stuck with bad teammates.
Then he gets traded to a designed championship team, partly as a favor and instantly wins the title, even though he was clearly past his very prime. And now he still contests for the title even tough he's only a shadow of his former self. He used to always play 80+ games, never being hurt, always giving his all. Now that's completely over. He digressed extremely. Still he has much better chances of winning another title than he ever had with the Timberwolves.
So let's not pretend that for some weird reason LeBron is a loser or bad leader because he's not winning titles with the fucking Cleveland Cavaliers.
I'm eager to see LeBron signing with the Bulls along with Bosh. Bosh, James, Rose and Deng could dominate the league. If LeBron fails with that kind of team, then yes, I'll be the first guy to call him a loser.
That's what I'm saying too...The current LeBron is more like Garnett than he is like Jordan. The way he carries himself now, he will not be able to LEAD a team to a championship with a cast built around him, as Garnett wasn't...Point blank...PeACe
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@Cham; I've said this to you a couple of times but you see things so black and white. Worst cast of support ? Lol come one man, nobody was saying that shit when Cavs were killing it in the regular season. But now it has happened like three times in a row that they chocked in the play offs. Coincidence ? I think not. Do Lakers have a better team ? Yeah. But it's not that big of a difference. It's definitely not.
@Seven: you make a good point. I'd love to see James in an all star cast as you people say, so that we can finally end this debate.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpAv_ao7rBs
That's the interview with Garnett crying. It's funny as fuck considering what a yapping douche he became once he killed the league with Boston :D
Starting at 4:00 mins. Awesome. At 4:30 he tells the camera man with his finger to stop filming because he's about to cry. So funny. Then after the break he cries anyway :D
"These are tears of pain. It's beating me up." "This ain't golf. This ain't tennis. I ain't about me. It's about us. It's not about what I'm doing. I just want the pieces (meaning he wants better teammates). I hate that I'm like this in front of you, man.. :'(" haha
At 6:40 mins he wants to cut it off again. But they ain't doing it. "I see the Spurs, I see Shaq with his new team... I talk to Chauncey a lot :'("
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@Cham; I've said this to you a couple of times but you see things so black and white. Worst cast of support ? Lol come one man, nobody was saying that shit when Cavs were killing it in the regular season. But now it has happened like three times in a row that they chocked in the play offs. Coincidence ? I think not. Do Lakers have a better team ? Yeah. But it's not that big of a difference. It's definitely not.
if the Cavs played the Lakers & Kobe & LeBron weren't playing, the Lakers would win every single game by double digits lol.
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@Cham; I've said this to you a couple of times but you see things so black and white. Worst cast of support ? Lol come one man, nobody was saying that shit when Cavs were killing it in the regular season. But now it has happened like three times in a row that they chocked in the play offs. Coincidence ? I think not. Do Lakers have a better team ? Yeah. But it's not that big of a difference. It's definitely not.
if the Cavs played the Lakers & Kobe & LeBron weren't playing, the Lakers would win every single game by double digits lol.
lol Laker fans are so torn with arguments like this. On one hand...they do like the idea that their team as a whole is better then the Cavs. On the other hand...they dont want to admit that Kobe has more help than LeBron. What to do? If only there was a way to make it seem as if the Lakers supporting cast and coach were better then LeBrons....but still be able to say LeBron has more help. lol
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@Cham; I've said this to you a couple of times but you see things so black and white. Worst cast of support ? Lol come one man, nobody was saying that shit when Cavs were killing it in the regular season. But now it has happened like three times in a row that they chocked in the play offs. Coincidence ? I think not. Do Lakers have a better team ? Yeah. But it's not that big of a difference. It's definitely not.
if the Cavs played the Lakers & Kobe & LeBron weren't playing, the Lakers would win every single game by double digits lol.
lol Laker fans are so torn with arguments like this. On one hand...they do like the idea that their team as a whole is better then the Cavs. On the other hand...they dont want to admit that Kobe has more help than LeBron. What to do? If only there was a way to make it seem as if the Lakers supporting cast and coach were better then LeBrons....but still be able to say LeBron has more help. lol
LOL, exactly.
i think there is a 10 page thread somewhere in the sports section about how Phil Jackson is the greatest coach in history of coaching, but he's a "non-factor" when it's a Kobe/LeBron debate lol.
come to think of it, he wasn't the coach of the Lakers when Kobe was alone & finished .500 either, right? :laugh:
he needs the cast.
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lebron needs the right coach like kobe has phil michael had phil lebron has fuckin mike brown he aint winnin shit i dont think he can really motivate the team to win i wanna know what the fuck he did or said to the team those last two games he shouldve challenged lebron
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lebron needs the right coach like kobe has phil michael had phil lebron has fuckin mike brown he aint winnin shit i dont think he can really motivate the team to win i wanna know what the fuck he did or said to the team those last two games he shouldve challenged lebron
But I can't think of a team that has that for him outside of the teams that already have teams together. Maybe Miami with Riley, but Riley needs to just hang it up. The more that is expose, the more I'm betting Chicago for his future home.
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To me, it seems quite obvious that the Laker fans in this thread are being much more realistic about our team than the anti-Laker LeBron apologists...Does Kobe have a garbage supporting cast? Hell no...But is it a hall-of-fame supporting cast that has breezed through the season like some of ya'll are acting? No way. We're in between. We've got a good cast, built to win the title, because Kobe knows how to bring the best out of his supporting players, and through leadership, the cast has learned their individual roles and have played their role way better than LeBron's cast did. Our cast wouldn't look nearly as good without Kobe bringing the winning mentality, because looking good comes with winning. That is where leadership comes into play. The leadership of Phil and the leadership of Kobe. Kobe is like an extension of Phil on the court. if it wasn't for Phil, Kobe would never have his current winning mentality, just like if it weren't for Kobe, the Laker supporting cast wouldn't have that winning mentality. So maybe LeBron too wont reach that level until he gets a real coach. You guys bring up Mike Brown as an argument for why the Cavs didn't win, but Mike Brown may very well be the reason LeBron, as an individual, is incapable of grasping what it takes to be a winner. Kobe has said he would never be the player he is today if it weren' for Phil. So maybe LeBron wont reach that next level until he gets a coach who is capable of lifting him there...If LeBron had Kobe's ability of bringing the best out of his cast and willing his way to victories, people would be talking about how amazing and deep the Cleveland cast is, just like they were before they lost. When Lakers were losing, everyone said we didn't have the bench to repeat as champions. Being great comes with winning, and winning comes from will, just as much as it comes from ability...PeACe
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@Cham; I've said this to you a couple of times but you see things so black and white. Worst cast of support ? Lol come one man, nobody was saying that shit when Cavs were killing it in the regular season. But now it has happened like three times in a row that they chocked in the play offs. Coincidence ? I think not. Do Lakers have a better team ? Yeah. But it's not that big of a difference. It's definitely not.
if the Cavs played the Lakers & Kobe & LeBron weren't playing, the Lakers would win every single game by double digits lol.
lol Laker fans are so torn with arguments like this. On one hand...they do like the idea that their team as a whole is better then the Cavs. On the other hand...they dont want to admit that Kobe has more help than LeBron. What to do? If only there was a way to make it seem as if the Lakers supporting cast and coach were better then LeBrons....but still be able to say LeBron has more help. lol
LOL, exactly.
i think there is a 10 page thread somewhere in the sports section about how Phil Jackson is the greatest coach in history of coaching, but he's a "non-factor" when it's a Kobe/LeBron debate lol.
come to think of it, he wasn't the coach of the Lakers when Kobe was alone & finished .500 either, right? :laugh:
he needs the cast.
A lot of Kobe's greatness comes from being coached by Phil, just like a lot of the Lakers' supporting cast greatness comes from being led by Kobe. You keep digging yourself holes with your lame arguments. Perhaps, if LeBron didn't have a coach as whack as Mike Brown, having a good coach would mean having mentor who would push him, question his spoiled ways and challenge his mentality when he sees that LeBron's heart isn't in it, which in turn could propel LeBron into a category with the GOATs...maybe a good coach is just what he's missing. But that doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it...PeACe
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Some classic quotes from a big LeBron fan earlier in the season...
Jamison is more than enough for Cleveland to make the Finals;
there's rumour that the Wiz will buy out Ilgauskas, and he'll eventually return to the Cavs.
i heard this too; that wouldn't even be fair lol.
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lebron needs the right coach like kobe has phil michael had phil lebron has fuckin mike brown he aint winnin shit i dont think he can really motivate the team to win i wanna know what the fuck he did or said to the team those last two games he shouldve challenged lebron
But I can't think of a team that has that for him outside of the teams that already have teams together. Maybe Miami with Riley, but Riley needs to just hang it up. The more that is expose, the more I'm betting Chicago for his future home.
i dont get why people sayin chicago chicago blah blah when they havnt even figured out who the fuck their coach is gon be but thats the media creating this hype bout lebron/chicago they should focus more on who the next head coach is gon be and if thats gon be a major factor if lebron is gon be a bull or not next season
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lebron needs the right coach like kobe has phil michael had phil lebron has fuckin mike brown he aint winnin shit i dont think he can really motivate the team to win i wanna know what the fuck he did or said to the team those last two games he shouldve challenged lebron
But I can't think of a team that has that for him outside of the teams that already have teams together. Maybe Miami with Riley, but Riley needs to just hang it up. The more that is expose, the more I'm betting Chicago for his future home.
i dont get why people sayin chicago chicago blah blah when they havnt even figured out who the fuck their coach is gon be but thats the media creating this hype bout lebron/chicago they should focus more on who the next head coach is gon be and if thats gon be a major factor if lebron is gon be a bull or not next season
i dont get how having 2 main ballhandlers is gonna work out (rose n lebron) to be effecient, its like having wade n lebron. of course it can work but they wouldnt fully exploit their talents because theyd have to share the ball so much.
bosh (amare) n lebron (wade, or any allstar calliber guard[given that can score as well as make plays]) would be perfect.
you need an all star or superstar caliber player down low, there isnt too many championships won with 2 superstars in the backcourt and nobody in the front, if any.
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lebron needs the right coach like kobe has phil michael had phil lebron has fuckin mike brown he aint winnin shit i dont think he can really motivate the team to win i wanna know what the fuck he did or said to the team those last two games he shouldve challenged lebron
But I can't think of a team that has that for him outside of the teams that already have teams together. Maybe Miami with Riley, but Riley needs to just hang it up. The more that is expose, the more I'm betting Chicago for his future home.
i dont get why people sayin chicago chicago blah blah when they havnt even figured out who the fuck their coach is gon be but thats the media creating this hype bout lebron/chicago they should focus more on who the next head coach is gon be and if thats gon be a major factor if lebron is gon be a bull or not next season
i dont get how having 2 main ballhandlers is gonna work out (rose n lebron) to be effecient, its like having wade n lebron. of course it can work but they wouldnt fully exploit their talents because theyd have to share the ball so much.
bosh (amare) n lebron (wade, or any allstar calliber guard[given that can score as well as make plays]) would be perfect.
you need an all star or superstar caliber player down low, there isnt too many championships won with 2 superstars in the backcourt and nobody in the front, if any.
joakim noah is pretty decent and taj gibson is prolly gon develop into one of the elite bigs in the league thats my IMO but i dont think its enough for lebron
and i forgot bout luol deng
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To me, it seems quite obvious that the Laker fans in this thread are being much more realistic about our team than the anti-Laker LeBron apologists...Does Kobe have a garbage supporting cast? Hell no...But is it a hall-of-fame supporting cast that has breezed through the season like some of ya'll are acting? No way. We're in between. We've got a good cast, built to win the title, because Kobe knows how to bring the best out of his supporting players, and through leadership, the cast has learned their individual roles and have played their role way better than LeBron's cast did. Our cast wouldn't look nearly as good without Kobe bringing the winning mentality, because looking good comes with winning. That is where leadership comes into play. The leadership of Phil and the leadership of Kobe. Kobe is like an extension of Phil on the court. if it wasn't for Phil, Kobe would never have his current winning mentality, just like if it weren't for Kobe, the Laker supporting cast wouldn't have that winning mentality. So maybe LeBron too wont reach that level until he gets a real coach. You guys bring up Mike Brown as an argument for why the Cavs didn't win, but Mike Brown may very well be the reason LeBron, as an individual, is incapable of grasping what it takes to be a winner. Kobe has said he would never be the player he is today if it weren' for Phil. So maybe LeBron wont reach that next level until he gets a coach who is capable of lifting him there...If LeBron had Kobe's ability of bringing the best out of his cast and willing his way to victories, people would be talking about how amazing and deep the Cleveland cast is, just like they were before they lost. When Lakers were losing, everyone said we didn't have the bench to repeat as champions. Being great comes with winning, and winning comes from will, just as much as it comes from ability...PeACe
For one, I dont see how any of the Kobe fans are being more realistic. Two, anyone who supports LeBron in this argument isnt "anti-Laker".
Some of what u say makes sense. But cmon man. There is a reason things changed when Gasol got there. Obviously Kobe is the focal point of the Lakers. But who on the Cavs is actually better than Gasol? Who is better than Artest? And Im not talkin about them WITH Kobe. Im talkin...before they even came to the Lakers those two players were better than anyone LeBron is workin with. Shit, Artest is a much better player than he is showing now...since he has struggled a bit to adjust. So he was better before he even came to the Lakers. You could even make the argument that Lamar is as good as anyone on the Cavs roster right now...other than LeBron obviously. Lamar is just inconsistent. But which one of Lebrons supporting cast is all that cosistent anyways? Than factor in the Phil Jackson/Mike Brown comparison...it sounds somewhat ridiculous to think that Kobe doesnt have more help. Does that mean Kobe isnt as good as LeBron? It all just depends who you ask. But Im sure you agree that the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs right now. And I dont think thats cus of Kobe. Its because the rest of the team is better. Kobe vs Lebron is almost a wash.
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that pedo calvin murphy said what? yell
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To me, it seems quite obvious that the Laker fans in this thread are being much more realistic about our team than the anti-Laker LeBron apologists...Does Kobe have a garbage supporting cast? Hell no...But is it a hall-of-fame supporting cast that has breezed through the season like some of ya'll are acting? No way. We're in between. We've got a good cast, built to win the title, because Kobe knows how to bring the best out of his supporting players, and through leadership, the cast has learned their individual roles and have played their role way better than LeBron's cast did. Our cast wouldn't look nearly as good without Kobe bringing the winning mentality, because looking good comes with winning. That is where leadership comes into play. The leadership of Phil and the leadership of Kobe. Kobe is like an extension of Phil on the court. if it wasn't for Phil, Kobe would never have his current winning mentality, just like if it weren't for Kobe, the Laker supporting cast wouldn't have that winning mentality. So maybe LeBron too wont reach that level until he gets a real coach. You guys bring up Mike Brown as an argument for why the Cavs didn't win, but Mike Brown may very well be the reason LeBron, as an individual, is incapable of grasping what it takes to be a winner. Kobe has said he would never be the player he is today if it weren' for Phil. So maybe LeBron wont reach that next level until he gets a coach who is capable of lifting him there...If LeBron had Kobe's ability of bringing the best out of his cast and willing his way to victories, people would be talking about how amazing and deep the Cleveland cast is, just like they were before they lost. When Lakers were losing, everyone said we didn't have the bench to repeat as champions. Being great comes with winning, and winning comes from will, just as much as it comes from ability...PeACe
For one, I dont see how any of the Kobe fans are being more realistic. Two, anyone who supports LeBron in this argument isnt "anti-Laker".
Some of what u say makes sense. But cmon man. There is a reason things changed when Gasol got there. Obviously Kobe is the focal point of the Lakers. But who on the Cavs is actually better than Gasol? Who is better than Artest? And Im not talkin about them WITH Kobe. Im talkin...before they even came to the Lakers those two players were better than anyone LeBron is workin with. Shit, Artest is a much better player than he is showing now...since he has struggled a bit to adjust. So he was better before he even came to the Lakers. You could even make the argument that Lamar is as good as anyone on the Cavs roster right now...other than LeBron obviously. Lamar is just inconsistent. But which one of Lebrons supporting cast is all that cosistent anyways? Than factor in the Phil Jackson/Mike Brown comparison...it sounds somewhat ridiculous to think that Kobe doesnt have more help. Does that mean Kobe isnt as good as LeBron? It all just depends who you ask. But Im sure you agree that the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs right now. And I dont think thats cus of Kobe. Its because the rest of the team is better. Kobe vs Lebron is almost a wash.
Don't you realize that players seem much greater when they win? If Lakers lose, people call Gasol soft and say Odom is way too inconsistent, just like people are now doing with Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams...But when they win, Gasol is all of a sudden the second coming of Hakeem, and Odom is too versatile to fuck with...Those sorta titles only come with winning. If The Cavs woulda won, as they were clearly capable of doing, then everyone would still be calling Antawn Jamison a beast, Mo Williams a top-tier point guard, and the Cavs the deepest team in the league, as they did throughout the season. The Lakers, no doubt, are a much better team than the Cavs right now...But that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't CAPABLE of being better. When the Lakers were playing whack and the Cavs were beasting EVERYONE was saying Cavs had the better team. It's funny how I knew the Cavs would lose before they did, even when they were the heavy favorites to win. LeBron isn't bout it...he's not thinkin about the sacrifices it takes to win a championship, he's thinkin bout what team he's gunna play for next, and that's why the Cavs underperformed.
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Some classic quotes from a big LeBron fan earlier in the season...
Jamison is more than enough for Cleveland to make the Finals;
there's rumour that the Wiz will buy out Ilgauskas, and he'll eventually return to the Cavs.
i heard this too; that wouldn't even be fair lol.
you know why they are classic? because they just weren't true, obviously, but a hater as yourself would never admit that lol.
everyone & their mother said that shit who wasn't a blatant LeBron fan; but when they lose it's his fault.
nobody wants to mention how Jamison played like ass; i mean, i can understand, it wouldn't help your argument.
face it, if the Lakers play the Celtics in the Finals & Gasol or Odom played like complete ass & they get swept., you WOULD NOT DARE put a SLICE of blame on Kobe lol; you would just flash the stats of how badly everyone else played.
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To me, it seems quite obvious that the Laker fans in this thread are being much more realistic about our team than the anti-Laker LeBron apologists...Does Kobe have a garbage supporting cast? Hell no...But is it a hall-of-fame supporting cast that has breezed through the season like some of ya'll are acting? No way. We're in between. We've got a good cast, built to win the title, because Kobe knows how to bring the best out of his supporting players, and through leadership, the cast has learned their individual roles and have played their role way better than LeBron's cast did. Our cast wouldn't look nearly as good without Kobe bringing the winning mentality, because looking good comes with winning. That is where leadership comes into play. The leadership of Phil and the leadership of Kobe. Kobe is like an extension of Phil on the court. if it wasn't for Phil, Kobe would never have his current winning mentality, just like if it weren't for Kobe, the Laker supporting cast wouldn't have that winning mentality. So maybe LeBron too wont reach that level until he gets a real coach. You guys bring up Mike Brown as an argument for why the Cavs didn't win, but Mike Brown may very well be the reason LeBron, as an individual, is incapable of grasping what it takes to be a winner. Kobe has said he would never be the player he is today if it weren' for Phil. So maybe LeBron wont reach that next level until he gets a coach who is capable of lifting him there...If LeBron had Kobe's ability of bringing the best out of his cast and willing his way to victories, people would be talking about how amazing and deep the Cleveland cast is, just like they were before they lost. When Lakers were losing, everyone said we didn't have the bench to repeat as champions. Being great comes with winning, and winning comes from will, just as much as it comes from ability...PeACe
For one, I dont see how any of the Kobe fans are being more realistic. Two, anyone who supports LeBron in this argument isnt "anti-Laker".
Some of what u say makes sense. But cmon man. There is a reason things changed when Gasol got there. Obviously Kobe is the focal point of the Lakers. But who on the Cavs is actually better than Gasol? Who is better than Artest? And Im not talkin about them WITH Kobe. Im talkin...before they even came to the Lakers those two players were better than anyone LeBron is workin with. Shit, Artest is a much better player than he is showing now...since he has struggled a bit to adjust. So he was better before he even came to the Lakers. You could even make the argument that Lamar is as good as anyone on the Cavs roster right now...other than LeBron obviously. Lamar is just inconsistent. But which one of Lebrons supporting cast is all that cosistent anyways? Than factor in the Phil Jackson/Mike Brown comparison...it sounds somewhat ridiculous to think that Kobe doesnt have more help. Does that mean Kobe isnt as good as LeBron? It all just depends who you ask. But Im sure you agree that the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs right now. And I dont think thats cus of Kobe. Its because the rest of the team is better. Kobe vs Lebron is almost a wash.
Don't you realize that players seem much greater when they win? If Lakers lose, people call Gasol soft and say Odom is way too inconsistent, just like people are now doing with Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams...But when they win, Gasol is all of a sudden the second coming of Hakeem, and Odom is too versatile to fuck with...Those sorta titles only come with winning. If The Cavs woulda won, as they were clearly capable of doing, then everyone would still be calling Antawn Jamison a beast, Mo Williams a top-tier point guard, and the Cavs the deepest team in the league, as they did throughout the season. The Lakers, no doubt, are a much better team than the Cavs right now...But that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't CAPABLE of being better. When the Lakers were playing whack and the Cavs were beasting EVERYONE was saying Cavs had the better team. It's funny how I knew the Cavs would lose before they did, even when they were the heavy favorites to win. LeBron isn't bout it...he's not thinkin about the sacrifices it takes to win a championship, he's thinkin bout what team he's gunna play for next, and that's why the Cavs underperformed.
second coming of Hakeem? LOL I wanna see the moron that said that.
Of course they seem better when they win. I agree with that. Shit, the Spurs were labeled as soft....until they won a title. Then with virtually the same core a few years later were labeled dirty lol. Thats not what Im talkin about though. Im talkin about the players Kobe has....and how they were even BEFORE they came to the Lakers. BEFORE they won any titles. Gasol never won any titles before coming to LA, and he was already better than anyone on the Cavs roster not named LeBron. Artest never won any titles, and he was better than anyone on the Cavs roster other than LeBron. Lamar IS inconsistent...so fuck him. But LeBron doesnt have anyone on his roster that is consistently good either.
So the winning has nothing to do with this argument. Kobe has more talent around him, period. I know that...you know that...everybody knows that. You yourself made the argument for Gasols GREATNESS the minute he got traded to the Lakers lol. You were ready to label him the greatest bigman in the league.
As for this Kobe vs LeBron argument. The shit is getting a bit old. How can anyone not see the differences in these two careers up to this point. It is almost night and day. You cannot compare Kobe's career success to LeBrons. That isnt fair as LeBron isnt even halfway through his career. You can only compare where they were at the same points in their career. Kobe had more team success with titles and whatnot...but he also had a top 10 All Time player alongside him with Shaq, a VERY good team, and Phil Jackson. Lebron has had more individual success with the MVP's, and completely dominating the stat sheets. But has had weaker teams so no titles. LeBron was also drafted by a horrible team who he was expected to resurrect and turn into a championship franchise. He was expected to be the savior. Kobe was drafted and traded to the Lakers for Divac...and wasnt expected to SAVE the Lakers. He was a bench player and immediately on a good team. So you have to take that into consideration when you look at title count. If Kobe was drafted #1 by a team like Cleveland who was terrible...he wouldnt have the titles at this age either. And when seeing where he was mentally his first couple years...would not have been ready to do what LeBron has been doing since he came into the league.
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To me, it seems quite obvious that the Laker fans in this thread are being much more realistic about our team than the anti-Laker LeBron apologists...Does Kobe have a garbage supporting cast? Hell no...But is it a hall-of-fame supporting cast that has breezed through the season like some of ya'll are acting? No way. We're in between. We've got a good cast, built to win the title, because Kobe knows how to bring the best out of his supporting players, and through leadership, the cast has learned their individual roles and have played their role way better than LeBron's cast did. Our cast wouldn't look nearly as good without Kobe bringing the winning mentality, because looking good comes with winning. That is where leadership comes into play. The leadership of Phil and the leadership of Kobe. Kobe is like an extension of Phil on the court. if it wasn't for Phil, Kobe would never have his current winning mentality, just like if it weren't for Kobe, the Laker supporting cast wouldn't have that winning mentality. So maybe LeBron too wont reach that level until he gets a real coach. You guys bring up Mike Brown as an argument for why the Cavs didn't win, but Mike Brown may very well be the reason LeBron, as an individual, is incapable of grasping what it takes to be a winner. Kobe has said he would never be the player he is today if it weren' for Phil. So maybe LeBron wont reach that next level until he gets a coach who is capable of lifting him there...If LeBron had Kobe's ability of bringing the best out of his cast and willing his way to victories, people would be talking about how amazing and deep the Cleveland cast is, just like they were before they lost. When Lakers were losing, everyone said we didn't have the bench to repeat as champions. Being great comes with winning, and winning comes from will, just as much as it comes from ability...PeACe
For one, I dont see how any of the Kobe fans are being more realistic. Two, anyone who supports LeBron in this argument isnt "anti-Laker".
Some of what u say makes sense. But cmon man. There is a reason things changed when Gasol got there. Obviously Kobe is the focal point of the Lakers. But who on the Cavs is actually better than Gasol? Who is better than Artest? And Im not talkin about them WITH Kobe. Im talkin...before they even came to the Lakers those two players were better than anyone LeBron is workin with. Shit, Artest is a much better player than he is showing now...since he has struggled a bit to adjust. So he was better before he even came to the Lakers. You could even make the argument that Lamar is as good as anyone on the Cavs roster right now...other than LeBron obviously. Lamar is just inconsistent. But which one of Lebrons supporting cast is all that cosistent anyways? Than factor in the Phil Jackson/Mike Brown comparison...it sounds somewhat ridiculous to think that Kobe doesnt have more help. Does that mean Kobe isnt as good as LeBron? It all just depends who you ask. But Im sure you agree that the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs right now. And I dont think thats cus of Kobe. Its because the rest of the team is better. Kobe vs Lebron is almost a wash.
Don't you realize that players seem much greater when they win? If Lakers lose, people call Gasol soft and say Odom is way too inconsistent, just like people are now doing with Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams...But when they win, Gasol is all of a sudden the second coming of Hakeem, and Odom is too versatile to fuck with...Those sorta titles only come with winning. If The Cavs woulda won, as they were clearly capable of doing, then everyone would still be calling Antawn Jamison a beast, Mo Williams a top-tier point guard, and the Cavs the deepest team in the league, as they did throughout the season. The Lakers, no doubt, are a much better team than the Cavs right now...But that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't CAPABLE of being better. When the Lakers were playing whack and the Cavs were beasting EVERYONE was saying Cavs had the better team. It's funny how I knew the Cavs would lose before they did, even when they were the heavy favorites to win. LeBron isn't bout it...he's not thinkin about the sacrifices it takes to win a championship, he's thinkin bout what team he's gunna play for next, and that's why the Cavs underperformed.
second coming of Hakeem? LOL I wanna see the moron that said that.
Of course they seem better when they win. I agree with that. Shit, the Spurs were labeled as soft....until they won a title. Then with virtually the same core a few years later were labeled dirty lol. Thats not what Im talkin about though. Im talkin about the players Kobe has....and how they were even BEFORE they came to the Lakers. BEFORE they won any titles. Gasol never won any titles before coming to LA, and he was already better than anyone on the Cavs roster not named LeBron. Artest never won any titles, and he was better than anyone on the Cavs roster other than LeBron. Lamar IS inconsistent...so fuck him. But LeBron doesnt have anyone on his roster that is consistently good either.
So the winning has nothing to do with this argument. Kobe has more talent around him, period. I know that...you know that...everybody knows that. You yourself made the argument for Gasols GREATNESS the minute he got traded to the Lakers lol. You were ready to label him the greatest bigman in the league.
As for this Kobe vs LeBron argument. The shit is getting a bit old. How can anyone not see the differences in these two careers up to this point. It is almost night and day. You cannot compare Kobe's career success to LeBrons. That isnt fair as LeBron isnt even halfway through his career. You can only compare where they were at the same points in their career. Kobe had more team success with titles and whatnot...but he also had a top 10 All Time player alongside him with Shaq, a VERY good team, and Phil Jackson. Lebron has had more individual success with the MVP's, and completely dominating the stat sheets. But has had weaker teams so no titles. LeBron was also drafted by a horrible team who he was expected to resurrect and turn into a championship franchise. He was expected to be the savior. Kobe was drafted and traded to the Lakers for Divac...and wasnt expected to SAVE the Lakers. He was a bench player and immediately on a good team. So you have to take that into consideration when you look at title count. If Kobe was drafted #1 by a team like Cleveland who was terrible...he wouldnt have the titles at this age either. And when seeing where he was mentally his first couple years...would not have been ready to do what LeBron has been doing since he came into the league.
Why was everyone saying the Cavs had a better TEAM when they were beasting? Why did everyone claim the Cavs were twice as deep as the Lakers? Why did those claims only disappear when the Cavs lost? Seriously, give Kobe Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison, and they will look like the greatest supporting players, just like Gasol does now. You say Gasol is amazing and what not, well, Gasol prior to joining the Lakers was in the same category as an Antawn Jamison, so what in the world are you talking about? In fact, Jamison had been to TWO all-star games before joining the Cavs, as opposed to Gasol, who only made ONE before joining the Lakers...so there goes your argument. The reason Gasol looks as good as he currently does is because he's playing alongside a winner...Team him up with LeBron instead of Kobe, and I guarantee his value would go down ala Jamison..Before Lakers won the championship, the notion was that we wouldn't be able to win a ring with Gasol, because he's too soft. If Cavs woulda won the championship, there is no doubt in my mind that people would argue Antawn Jamison with Pau Gasol. At the end of the day, Cavs had a team built to win. Cavs had a team that was capable of winning. They couldn't deliver. There is no excuse, period. Kobe having to work his way up to being an all-time GOAT on a hall-of-fame team is part of the reason he's adopted the drive he currently has and part of the reason he's gained a winner mentality. LeBron being spoiled and handed everything from day 1, including a team all for himself is the reason he's still an egotistical diva who hasn't learned the sacrifices it takes to make it as an all-time GOAT in this league...so do yourself a favor, and quit bringing up that point, because it's not supporting your argument...PeACe