Led Zeppelin plagiarism....

[Elano]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JyvLsutfI5M" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/JyvLsutfI5M</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zThdTAWQFAQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zThdTAWQFAQ</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/K5uMQDlKn8g" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/K5uMQDlKn8g</a>

[Shallow]

I've been saying this for years. It's one thing to reuse old Blues riffs and lyrics that have been reused 1000 times before Jimmy Page ever picked up a guitar. It's another to take it and claim you did it and then copyright it as your creation.

It'd be like a comedian using a a bunch of basic mom or wife jokes that everyone has used and submitting them as original works written by him.

The worst one was Dazed and Confused. Jake Holmes wrote it and released it in 67 or 68. Jimmy Page and the Yardbirds cover it as a Jake Holmes song the same year. A year later Page records it with Zep and claims it to be a Page composition, and there are two copyrights for the song with the idea that they are two different songs. 20 something years go by before Jake Holmes realizes that Page is taking credit for the writing and taking royalties when the song is used, anywhere by anyone. He calls Jimmy and says "hey, don't tell people you wrote my song. Ok, you changed a few words around and added to the melody but it's still built off my song. I want my name at least added to yours on the credit sheet." Jimmy says fine. Another 10 to 15 years go by and Jimmy does nothing about it. So Jake's had enough and has now decided to outright sue for damages. At first he wanted no money, just recognition. FUCK JIMMY PAGE AND EVERY OTHER BRIT THAT RUINED ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[white Boy]

i agree, credit should be given, but zep is still amazing, when i found out about all these covers, my respect for zep/page dropped in the tiniest miniscule, almost every song, what made it was the 4 of them just killing it, from the drums to the vocals to the way they mixed around the lyrics etc.

also shallow, i've always wondered this, say i want to cover, say jake holme's dazed n confused for my album, i record it, release it, and give him credit, like, is that legit? or do i still need permission? (bassically im asking covers vs samples (which as i understand, even if you credit, you still need permission?))

[SCREWFACE]

i agree, credit should be given, but zep is still amazing, when i found out about all these covers, my respect for zep/page dropped in the tiniest miniscule, almost every song, what made it was the 4 of them just killing it, from the drums to the vocals to the way they mixed around the lyrics etc.

yeh i agree, i mean when i found out i thought it was pretty terrible of them but they did a lot of good shit so why stop enjoying the music

[OG Hack Wilson]

led zep #2 is the best rock album ever


but smh @ lyric stealing

[white Boy]

i wasnt aware of that moby grape one, and a couple others.

[Sikotic™]

Fuck you Zeppelin for stealing from us negroides.

[Sir Petey]

Fuck you Zeppelin for stealing from us negroides.

but u armenian right sik?

[Shallow]

i agree, credit should be given, but zep is still amazing, when i found out about all these covers, my respect for zep/page dropped in the tiniest miniscule, almost every song, what made it was the 4 of them just killing it, from the drums to the vocals to the way they mixed around the lyrics etc.

also shallow, i've always wondered this, say i want to cover, say jake holme's dazed n confused for my album, i record it, release it, and give him credit, like, is that legit? or do i still need permission? (bassically im asking covers vs samples (which as i understand, even if you credit, you still need permission?))

If you want to cover and release copyrighted material if need to pay royalties and get permission. If you wanted to just throw in a cover during your live set then ascap and things like that take care of those costs paid for by the venue. Artists join groups like ascap and bmi to get royalties. These are private union like groups that do all the work selling the rights to venues and radio stations and such to get money back for your stuff when it gets used. Obviously there is no way of calculating every time a song is covered but they use math formulas to decipher how many times a song would be played each station or venue pays the accepted costs.

But when you use another person's song to advertise yourself that goes beyond ascap and you need the publishing rights owner ro sign on that.


and on a side note after really hearing the older blues records by Mama Thornton and Lightning Hopkins I realized Zep wasn't even playing all that well. More style than substance. They made them sound cooler and easier to listen to, but the broth was thin and the depth wasn't there. I feel no emotion on those records, not the deep emotions I feel from the Blues by the blacks. Black Rock is based on pain. White Rock is based on Angst. And suffering is always a deeper and stronger entity than frustration is. The Rolling Stones were annoyed they had to dress and act a certain way or get frowned upon in London town. So they didn't fit the mold and were casted out as oddities. The blacks of the American south faced a much greater penalty for acting out. If Mick Jagger (before he was famous) whistled at a girl of a higher class and was beaten and killed and the two guys that did it released a book about how they did it after they beat the bias trial then maybe British Rock would have the pain. But something like that couldn't happen in the white world then and be seen as "that's just the way it goes".

[white Boy]

the thing with zep for me, is that, the emotion, is like you said, not from pain, BUT page's vocals are intense, as is all the other instruments, that it slaps you across the face. take, 'babe im gonna leave you', the vocals, even on the slow part are nice, but i cant say that i really feel completely feel the emotion, just quality (& skill?), and when he yells, i meat it sounds fantastic, but i see what you mean by that emotional lack. but i see where zep is coming from, they were like, these blues artists are dope as fuck, lets emulate them, but do it different, ... and what was your reference on the two white guys writing a book about killing a black guy and getting away with it?

[Shallow]

the thing with zep for me, is that, the emotion, is like you said, not from pain, BUT page's vocals are intense, as is all the other instruments, that it slaps you across the face. take, 'babe im gonna leave you', the vocals, even on the slow part are nice, but i cant say that i really feel completely feel the emotion, just quality (& skill?), and when he yells, i meat it sounds fantastic, but i see what you mean by that emotional lack. but i see where zep is coming from, they were like, these blues artists are dope as fuck, lets emulate them, but do it different, ... and what was your reference on the two white guys writing a book about killing a black guy and getting away with it?

Emmit Till was the kid killed in the south and the white jury found the two guys innocent and then a few years later after being told that they can't be tried for the same crime twice they sold their story to be published.

And I'm not saying Zep had no talent. It's very clear they did. Springsteen doesn't sing or play from pain and he's my favorite. Angst can still be very good like Bruce, or Cobain, Neil Young, but for me for it to be even close to the quality of the Blues or the old Rhythm and Blues it has to take shape in another form, rather than in a cleaned version of the same style.

Springsteen took the best parts of Rock and Roll and RnB (and other genres) and put them in and on his own vehicle of music, with that car analogy being used on purpose. Punk did the same thing. Young took the established folk and electrified it with more power (meaning hard sounds) than Dylan ever did, or could. And Cobain took the newly established art of Rock and ran with it.

I've said before that Rock and Roll is music by black people with talent and Rock is music by white people with ideas. What I mean by that, among other things, is that the old Rock and Rollers and Bluesmen didn't have time to think of how to out do the next guy with something crazy. They just played and sang and felt every note, and the cream rose to the top. The white artist probably spent as much time thinking about how the album or record is going to sound like before they ever recorded it. And after it gets recorded the production is as much to think about. Springsteen when Darkness on the Edge of Town was being produced was sitting with the mixer, Chuck Plotkin, and explaining to him how the songs, verse for verse, bridge for bridge should sound, by telling him the scenes from films he created in his head that he was seeing while writing and recording the songs. To substitute the pain and complete real emotion outlet that the Blues gives you, Bruce Springsteen had to use imagination. Cobain used a lot of imagination too by trying to create pictures with the music when you heard it. And of course Jimi Hendrix who may one of the few pure Rock and Roll and pure Rock artists at the same time there is, also did so brilliantly.

Jimmy Page wasn't creating ideas or feeling emotions. These guys were turning the Blues into high concept films. Like re-creating an old film and making it into a new hit. It has merit; just not as much as the real great talents of either genre, imo. It'd be like Tarantino taking and old Samurai and Cowboy films shot for shot, plot for plot and twisting it around a little so it looks more appealing to a fresh audience. He's a decent director, but he's not Kubrick, or Hitchcock. And he's also not as good as the guys he was taking from; Leone or Kurosawa. I'm not equating pain and angst here, I'm just saying the same way Zep took an older sound and style and made it more listenable to younger audiences is the same way Tarantino did it.

[OG Hack Wilson]

how much dd they steal for the Lemen Song?

that's probably my fav LZ song

[Shallow]

how much dd they steal for the Lemen Song?

that's probably my fav LZ song

Everything.

It's a Howlin Wolf cover.This was the easiest one to sue for because they used to play it in concert as Killing Floor, then when they recorded it they changed the nae to Lemon Song and Jimmy took the writing credit. Fucking idiot. I guess technically he can say he wrote the title of the song. Funny thing is after the record company that owned the song sued, a few years later Wolf sued the record company for not paying royalties to him. So Page might be a thieving scumbag but he's not alone.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great cover. But Jimi Hendrix has more of a write to the writing credit of Watchtower than Zep does for Lemon.