Phil said Kobe is a better player with the ball than Michael

[jeromechickenbone]

NIK i'm not a big fan of him (i used to love Magic and hate on this dude), but Michael Jordan was a monster, the best SG i've ever seen playing basketball. Kobe is not at the same level. Yes he will be remembered as a legend too, but man right now i think he hasn't reached Jordan's status yet. He's still 28, he can still do great things (like winning other 2-3 titles) and he's still in a process where he's changing his game (now he's playing like a real leader, and the Lakers are looking good) for good. But c'mon, even if i didn't like him (i mean being a Laker fan you couldn't love him), Jordan > Bryant. No fucking discussion.

+1. 

Exactly what I'm saying.  Kobe still has many years in front of him, who knows what may happen.  Maybe he'll get 5 more rings, 5 MVPs, etc.  But at the same time, maybe not.  Either way, it's completely ridiculous to think that all Kobe has to do now is master moving w/o the ball to be the undisputed GOAT right now.  That really is by far, the most retarded thing I've ever read on this board. 

I've realized that I had the wrong view of 99% of "Laker Fans" in this section.  NEARLY every one is very logical and rational.  They are still VERY passionate about their favorite team, but they are still knowledgable and not dickriders.  I actually enjoy reading their insight into their team. 

[Antonio_]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

[PLANT]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

great points, and good research

[t.c.o.p.]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

great points, and good research

god damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj

[Scream @ Me]

Wowwww...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

lmao@Nik using Kobe coming straight out of HS as an excuse.  Look at what James did in his rookie year, he shut the critics up, he played like a 5 year vet but Kobe gets special treatment because he played behind Eddie Jones lol. 

anyone remember this:
Playoff Series against Utah, Rookie Bryant air-balled two 3-point shots in overtime - one with 35 seconds left, one with four remaining - that enabled Utah to escape with a 98-93 overtime victory and win the Western Conference semifinal four games to one.

Playoff seires against Celtics, 2nd year vet Michael Jordan, who only played in 18 games because of a broken leg, erases Elgin Baylor's NBA playoff record of 61 points by scoring 63 on Larry Bird.  after the game Bird responded to Jordan's performance by saying "i think it was God disguised as Michael Jordan."  Doesn't get any better than that 

I know Kobe was a Rookie and is now a completely different player but IMO you don't BECOME THE GOAT (kobe) You're BORN THE GOAT (JORDAN)

So sinced LeBron didn't have to wait his turn to take over like Kobe did, that means he's greater by your standards? LOL. See, that's what I'm getting at...NO ONE can deny that Kobe has the chance to be greater than Jordan, that's pure hatred if you say otherwise. Kobe is just entering his prime and has already reached the unreachable, to say that because he developed his game under the greatest franchise takes away from how great he has become and how much he's worked to reach that status is a joke...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

NIK i'm not a big fan of him (i used to love Magic and hate on this dude), but Michael Jordan was a monster, the best SG i've ever seen playing basketball. Kobe is not at the same level. Yes he will be remembered as a legend too, but man right now i think he hasn't reached Jordan's status yet. He's still 28, he can still do great things (like winning other 2-3 titles) and he's still in a process where he's changing his game (now he's playing like a real leader, and the Lakers are looking good) for good. But c'mon, even if i didn't like him (i mean being a Laker fan you couldn't love him), Jordan > Bryant. No fucking discussion.

Of course Jordan was a monster, a legend, one of the greatests the game has ever seen. I never denied that. But Kobe has a tremendous chance to leave the game as the greatest player to ever play, that's undeniable and that's all I've been saying. Kobe barely entered his prime and will probably keep improving well into his 30s, to think of the things hes accomplished and he's only 27 is spectacular, way more than Jordan accomplished by 27. Jordan > Kobe NOW, but Kobe is right on track to take over that number 1 spot, even without the ref treatment Jordan used to get...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

NIK i'm not a big fan of him (i used to love Magic and hate on this dude), but Michael Jordan was a monster, the best SG i've ever seen playing basketball. Kobe is not at the same level. Yes he will be remembered as a legend too, but man right now i think he hasn't reached Jordan's status yet. He's still 28, he can still do great things (like winning other 2-3 titles) and he's still in a process where he's changing his game (now he's playing like a real leader, and the Lakers are looking good) for good. But c'mon, even if i didn't like him (i mean being a Laker fan you couldn't love him), Jordan > Bryant. No fucking discussion.

+1. 

Exactly what I'm saying.  Kobe still has many years in front of him, who knows what may happen.  Maybe he'll get 5 more rings, 5 MVPs, etc.  But at the same time, maybe not.  Either way, it's completely ridiculous to think that all Kobe has to do now is master moving w/o the ball to be the undisputed GOAT right now.  That really is by far, the most retarded thing I've ever read on this board. 

I've realized that I had the wrong view of 99% of "Laker Fans" in this section.  NEARLY every one is very logical and rational.  They are still VERY passionate about their favorite team, but they are still knowledgable and not dickriders.  I actually enjoy reading their insight into their team. 

He masters moving without the ball and he will become the most complete player the game has ever seen, eventually collecting those 5 rings you were talking about (not MVPs, since the way the league hands those out is a joke). What you don't get about that is a mystery?

[PLANT]

What the fuck?  You cant be serious?  This is pure dickriding at its finest.  This is the reason why I photoshoped another pic of you. Check it out.

[jeromechickenbone]

What the fuck?  You cant be serious?  This is pure dickriding at its finest.  This is the reason why I photoshoped another pic of you. Check it out.

+1.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 That one's never gonna get old!

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

Antonio, I'm under the impression that you've heard more about Jordan than you've actually seen him play. Dude is considered the GOAT right now, no question about it (though I still say Magic was a better overall player, but that's a whole nother story). But you can't forget that the NBA treated Jordan back then like they're doing Wade now, it was almost like looking at him the wrong way was a foul, pretty much the opposite of the current Kobe treatment. Jordan also wasn't exactly contending for championships in the beginning of his career, so if all you got is stats (sort of like a LeBron gets the stats nowadays) and word of mouth up in Italy then you wont see the whole picture...people talk about Jordan like he was a God, like he couldn't miss a shot and was the flawless player, but anyone who's actually watched him play in his days know that isn't exactly the whole truth...Yes, the GOAT right now, but Kobe was a champion when Jordan was still being regarded as a selfish player and awful teammate...Stats don't tell you everything, if that were the case, then even LeBron>Kobe, which we all know is not true...Why do you think Jordan had better stats in the first half of his career, but was easily considered the better player in the second half of his career when his stats went down. It's kinda like Kobe now compared to last year. Kobe is maturing, at an even younger age than Jordan did...That's why I'm saying, anyone who says Kobe doesn't have the chance to surpass Jordan is straight up hating, considering Kobe is just entering his prime years. Think of how lucky we are to have 10 more years of this guy on our team, and he's just now getting to his best. It's actually scary! So just remember, I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT right now, but I am saying that there is a chance he will not always be the GOAT, not in everyones eyes at least...PeACe

[GangstaBoogy]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

great points, and good research

god damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj

Yeah it's just too bad he waisted all those valid points on a dickhead who thinks he knows everything.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Anyway i agree with NIK that Kobe started his career being a bench player, a 17 years old in a world where Europeans and rookies coming straight off high school received no love from the media and the NBA in general. A totally different scenario. Jordan was a complete player from his first day in the NBA. I mean he went to North Carolina college, he won an NCAA title hitting the game-winning shot.. he was mature and he actually improved in his college days (he started as a bench player and he finished as a starter). Kobe had this maturation time in the Lakers. So his first 3 years were like college years for him, still improving menthally, tecnically and phisically. So to be more precise we should compare the stats of Jordan being 21-28 to the ones of Kobe being 21-28. I did. And, surprisingly, Jordan's stats are STILL better. Man Jordan won his first MVP trophy at 25. And the year before, when he was 24, he got arguably "robbed" of the title by Larry Bird (something like Nash with Kobe last year) (oh, the numbers? 37.1 points per fucking game!! ). Man at 25 he won the scoring title with an average of 35 ppg and at the same time he won the defensive player of the year award (3.16 fucking steals per game). Plus the MVP trophy, obiously. By the time he was 28, he won 3 MVP titles (plus the one robbed) and 2 NBA titles by being the 1st offensive option of the team and the best defender at the same time. C'mon, NIK. He was not human. Kobe is great. A legend already. But right now i'd put Jordan over him easly.

great points, and good research

god damn...way to shut this argument down...just proving more that there will never be another mj

Yeah it's just too bad he waisted all those valid points on a dickhead who thinks he knows everything.

 

[Just Another Sunny day in California]

i believe we need to see if Kobe even wins a championship let alone win 3 or 4 more with a couple of MVPs to even see him come close to Jordan.  Jordan is the GOAT hands down, kobe has a chance but not big of a chance that you think Nik.

[Antonio_]

Antonio, I'm under the impression that you've heard more about Jordan than you've actually seen him play. Dude is considered the GOAT right now, no question about it (though I still say Magic was a better overall player, but that's a whole nother story). But you can't forget that the NBA treated Jordan back then like they're doing Wade now, it was almost like looking at him the wrong way was a foul, pretty much the opposite of the current Kobe treatment.

C'mon, let's be real! Jordan wasn't treathed any better than Magic, Bird, Drexler, Kareem, Robinson, ecc.. The NBA has always protected his superstars. It's just Kobe who gets no love from the refs after that damn rape case! Duncan, James, Wade, Nash.. they are all "protected" by the refs too. Kobe is just the only one who gets no calls. You got a point here. But still.. it's not enought, man, to underrated what Jordan did as a player even in his early days. Just remember the Bulls were a shitty team like the Cavs before LeBron. The only difference is that Jordan led them to the Play Offs since his first year in the league, never missing them. He was no joke. And talking about Jordan having no love, he had "problems" too. I got the tape of his first All-Star Game (obviously he was a starter, as a rookie. LOL), and Isiah Thomas and his Eastern Conference teammates litterally refused to pass him the ball because they thought fans didn't have to give a rookie like him such a privilege. Plus in his first 2-3 seasons, while the fans loved him, NBA players hated on him and thought he was just.. you know.. overhyped by the media. Something we say now about LeBron James. Only difference is that Jordan took only 4 seasons to win the MVP award (and he got robbed in his 3rd), a well deserved uncontested one, to shut the haters down. No fucking joke. OK, he wasn't hated by the refs like Kobe is now, but c'mon..

Jordan also wasn't exactly contending for championships in the beginning of his career, so if all you got is stats (sort of like a LeBron gets the stats nowadays) and word of mouth up in Italy then you wont see the whole picture...

Like i said he was no LeBron for the simple fact that he started his career by carring the (shitty) Bulls to the Play Offs from his rookie year. Ok, the Bulls always got eliminated by the Celtics (we're talking about arguably the best Celtics ever), but still he made that infamous 63-points performance against Bird & co., in his second year. If it wasn't for the Celtics.... Anyway he led the Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals in his 5th year (and in his 6th. And he won the NBA title in his 7th, 8th, 9th..). No joke.

people talk about Jordan like he was a God, like he couldn't miss a shot and was the flawless player, but anyone who's actually watched him play in his days know that isn't exactly the whole truth...Yes, the GOAT right now, but Kobe was a champion when Jordan was still being regarded as a selfish player and awful teammate...Stats don't tell you everything, if that were the case, then even LeBron>Kobe, which we all know is not true...Why do you think Jordan had better stats in the first half of his career, but was easily considered the better player in the second half of his career when his stats went down. It's kinda like Kobe now compared to last year. Kobe is maturing, at an even younger age than Jordan did...

Kobe is about 28. By that time, Jordan already had an NBA title won and was running for his 2nd and 3rd, man. Only difference is that the Bulls were built around him, and not around "Shaq". Don't get me wrong here, i'm not the type of guy who will say "Shaq won it", or "Kobe won it because of Shaq". Fuck that. Kobe had a fundamental role in the 3peat, sometimes even stronger than Shaq's one. But that one was Shaq's team. This one is Kobe's team. It's different. Even harder if you ask me (i mean it's easier to win a title with a dominant C than with a dominant SG). Kobe still gotta prove he can win a title by himself (the team built around him). Probably he will. Maybe he won't. We don't know. He has all the tools to do it tho. And i'm optimistic he will, maybe even this year. But you can't compare a done deal with a promise, you know what i mean?

That's why I'm saying, anyone who says Kobe doesn't have the chance to surpass Jordan is straight up hating, considering Kobe is just entering his prime years. Think of how lucky we are to have 10 more years of this guy on our team, and he's just now getting to his best. It's actually scary! So just remember, I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT right now, but I am saying that there is a chance he will not always be the GOAT, not in everyones eyes at least...PeACe

Man but i ain't arguing about that. Kobe is a legend already at 28, and now it's nothing but money time. Time to work on his legacy and to win a couple of titles by himself.