FINALS DUBCC'S GOAT SF: #1 LARRY BIRD VS #2 ELGIN BAYLOR

[wcsoldier]

^^^^ I guess Dirk tied with Moses Malone for the 10th spot was a Lakers conspiracy too 

[Shallow]

Elgin started the MJ/Dr. J style of play. There is no way I can vote against him in this one.

John Logie Baird started television as we know it backin the 20s, but I'd still rather watch a plasma screen on HD, and I'd still rather have Bird on my team. You  can have Baylor, but he won't be doing much against my team with Bird covering him. And Larry won't have a problem jumping over him with his 5 inches of height for the boards or sinking 3s from the outside.

Baylor would run circles against Bird.

Your opinion doesn't even count in this case. Anytime a Laker is involved everyone already knows what you're going to say.

So is my opinion not valid? Was Chick Hearns opinion not valid? Was Jerry West's opinion not valid? Baylor>Bird. Get over it.

Your opinion is not valid because if Bird played for the Lakers and Baylor never did then your opinion would change. Bringing up two guys that called Baylor's  games and played along side him respectively means nothing. Was Baylor more important to the evolution of the game than Bird? Maybe. Was he more of a standout player compared to the rest of the mooks in the league at that time? Sure. But you put Larry Bird and Elgin Baylor in their prime on two shitty teams in the NBA today and Larry's team will be in the finals with in 2 to 3 years while Baylor's team would fall apart because a 6'5'' forward won't cut it and his athletic ability compared to guys today won't mean as much like it did compared to the goofs in the NBA back then. Larry's genius is in his head. He's too smart not to be able to win and win and win. He's a leader and he leads teams to championships. Baylor never got to do that. Maybe if Baylor had Shaq to lead the way like Kobe did then Elgin would have won a couple, but his career went like how Kobe's will go for the rest of his career; no rings. He had 7 chances to beat Boston and Elgin couldn't do it. You take a '79 to '88 Larry Bird and put him on the Lakers in '59 and dollars to doughnuts the Celtics would go down at least 3 times. Larry was too smart and too much of a leader, but you have no concept of the what a leader is. If you did you wouldn't like Kobe as much as you do.

[J @ M @ L]

If this thread is any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if the same strings are pulled in the SG poll... they might screw over the obviously deserving Jordan and give it to Kobe.

It's a shame Kwame isn't any better...  we may have seen him win the GOAT PF one.

If you think the disparity between Baylor and Bird is the same as the disparity between Kwame and Malone, then you need help.

You're missing the whole point. It wasn't to compare the disparity... it was to show how the Laker cheerleaders vote based on the fact that they're Laker players... like Shallow said, if Bird was a Laker, then it would've been irrelevant to you guys whether Bird won or Baylor. And you're right about Malone being a bad example... after all, he did play for the Lakers at some point in his career, so him being voted in is alright.... like you said yourself:

when/if  karl malone wins that'll mean every player selected to the hall of fame has at one time played for the lakers

LOL. Jordan's gunna kill it...Jerry West or Elgin Baylor better win SF though.

But we'll see if the same strings are pulled again, since there's an obvious predetermination.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

If this thread is any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if the same strings are pulled in the SG poll... they might screw over the obviously deserving Jordan and give it to Kobe.

It's a shame Kwame isn't any better...  we may have seen him win the GOAT PF one.

If you think the disparity between Baylor and Bird is the same as the disparity between Kwame and Malone, then you need help.

You're missing the whole point. It wasn't to compare the disparity... it was to show how the Laker cheerleaders vote based on the fact that they're Laker players... like Shallow said, if Bird was a Laker, then it would've been irrelevant to you guys whether Bird won or Baylor. And you're right about Malone being a bad example... after all, he did play for the Lakers at some point in his career, so him being voted in is alright.... like you said yourself:

when/if  karl malone wins that'll mean every player selected to the hall of fame has at one time played for the lakers

LOL. Jordan's gunna kill it...Jerry West or Elgin Baylor better win SF though.

But we'll see if the same strings are pulled again, since there's an obvious predetermination.

I said that because I believe they are two of the greatest small forwards ever, and MANY agree. I highly doubt you've even seen any of them play... Even career numbers would put Baylor and West over Bird, so you gotta stop acting like the votes are irrational...Your paranoia of conspiracies is ludicrous, man. No way SHAQ woulda' won over Wilt if the votings been Laker bias. And if there are bias votes, then who's to say there aren't hater votes? There's definitely a good amount of laker hating going around this board...Not to mention Joe Dumars is currently leading Jerry West in the fuckin shooting guard category... so keep your hilarious theories to yourself homie...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Elgin started the MJ/Dr. J style of play. There is no way I can vote against him in this one.

John Logie Baird started television as we know it backin the 20s, but I'd still rather watch a plasma screen on HD, and I'd still rather have Bird on my team. You  can have Baylor, but he won't be doing much against my team with Bird covering him. And Larry won't have a problem jumping over him with his 5 inches of height for the boards or sinking 3s from the outside.

Baylor would run circles against Bird.

Your opinion doesn't even count in this case. Anytime a Laker is involved everyone already knows what you're going to say.

So is my opinion not valid? Was Chick Hearns opinion not valid? Was Jerry West's opinion not valid? Baylor>Bird. Get over it.

Your opinion is not valid because if Bird played for the Lakers and Baylor never did then your opinion would change. Bringing up two guys that called Baylor's  games and played along side him respectively means nothing. Was Baylor more important to the evolution of the game than Bird? Maybe. Was he more of a standout player compared to the rest of the mooks in the league at that time? Sure. But you put Larry Bird and Elgin Baylor in their prime on two shitty teams in the NBA today and Larry's team will be in the finals with in 2 to 3 years while Baylor's team would fall apart because a 6'5'' forward won't cut it and his athletic ability compared to guys today won't mean as much like it did compared to the goofs in the NBA back then. Larry's genius is in his head. He's too smart not to be able to win and win and win. He's a leader and he leads teams to championships. Baylor never got to do that. Maybe if Baylor had Shaq to lead the way like Kobe did then Elgin would have won a couple, but his career went like how Kobe's will go for the rest of his career; no rings. He had 7 chances to beat Boston and Elgin couldn't do it. You take a '79 to '88 Larry Bird and put him on the Lakers in '59 and dollars to doughnuts the Celtics would go down at least 3 times. Larry was too smart and too much of a leader, but you have no concept of the what a leader is. If you did you wouldn't like Kobe as much as you do.

Kobe is not a leader? LOL. If he wasn't a leader, would he have led a BATTERED team composed mainly of D-League level talent to the fucking playoffs? Lemme guess, you're a huge Jordan fan, huh?...How much help did Jordan need before he could finally win something? As for Elgin Baylor, the Russell led Celtics won 9 titles during Baylor's career, that's not his fault. It doesn't make a difference in how great of a player he was either way. Was James Worthy better than Elgin Baylor too? (<A Laker comparison for that ass). That's as dumb as saying that 6'5" isn't a good size for a small forward. And speaking of Elgin Baylor in his prime vs. Larry Bird in his prime...


Larry Bird-
PPG: 29.9
RPG: 9.3
APG: 6.1

Elgin Baylor-
PPG: 34.6
RPG: 19.8
APG: 5.1





Hmmmmm...I guess I'm soooo bias, huh? Get the fuck out of here. Until you see me making irrational claims, you have nothing on me, bro.

[Shallow]

Elgin started the MJ/Dr. J style of play. There is no way I can vote against him in this one.

John Logie Baird started television as we know it backin the 20s, but I'd still rather watch a plasma screen on HD, and I'd still rather have Bird on my team. You  can have Baylor, but he won't be doing much against my team with Bird covering him. And Larry won't have a problem jumping over him with his 5 inches of height for the boards or sinking 3s from the outside.

Baylor would run circles against Bird.

Your opinion doesn't even count in this case. Anytime a Laker is involved everyone already knows what you're going to say.

So is my opinion not valid? Was Chick Hearns opinion not valid? Was Jerry West's opinion not valid? Baylor>Bird. Get over it.

Your opinion is not valid because if Bird played for the Lakers and Baylor never did then your opinion would change. Bringing up two guys that called Baylor's  games and played along side him respectively means nothing. Was Baylor more important to the evolution of the game than Bird? Maybe. Was he more of a standout player compared to the rest of the mooks in the league at that time? Sure. But you put Larry Bird and Elgin Baylor in their prime on two shitty teams in the NBA today and Larry's team will be in the finals with in 2 to 3 years while Baylor's team would fall apart because a 6'5'' forward won't cut it and his athletic ability compared to guys today won't mean as much like it did compared to the goofs in the NBA back then. Larry's genius is in his head. He's too smart not to be able to win and win and win. He's a leader and he leads teams to championships. Baylor never got to do that. Maybe if Baylor had Shaq to lead the way like Kobe did then Elgin would have won a couple, but his career went like how Kobe's will go for the rest of his career; no rings. He had 7 chances to beat Boston and Elgin couldn't do it. You take a '79 to '88 Larry Bird and put him on the Lakers in '59 and dollars to doughnuts the Celtics would go down at least 3 times. Larry was too smart and too much of a leader, but you have no concept of the what a leader is. If you did you wouldn't like Kobe as much as you do.

Kobe is not a leader? LOL. If he wasn't a leader, would he have led a BATTERED team composed mainly of D-League level talent to the fucking playoffs? Lemme guess, you're a huge Jordan fan, huh?...How much help did Jordan need before he could finally win something? As for Elgin Baylor, the Russell led Celtics won 9 titles during Baylor's career, that's not his fault. It doesn't make a difference in how great of a player he was either way. Was James Worthy better than Elgin Baylor too? (<A Laker comparison for that ass). That's as dumb as saying that 6'5" isn't a good size for a small forward. And speaking of Elgin Baylor in his prime vs. Larry Bird in his prime...


Larry Bird-
PPG: 29.9
RPG: 9.3
APG: 6.1

Elgin Baylor-
PPG: 34.6
RPG: 19.8
APG: 5.1





Hmmmmm...I guess I'm soooo bias, huh? Get the fuck out of here. Until you see me making irrational claims, you have nothing on me, bro.

Like I said, Bird would have figured out how to beat the Russel Celtics at least 3 times. Those stats are a waste of text. Look at the league in the 80s compared to the 60s. The other players were way better in the 80s than in the 60s. The game was different and Larry was a leader. A guy who took his team from one of the worst to the playoffs in his rookie season and he was too smart to be beatan 7 times in the finals by 1 team.

Worthy had rings yeah, but if Baylor had Magic and Jabbar, he'd have rings too.

[J @ M @ L]

If this thread is any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if the same strings are pulled in the SG poll... they might screw over the obviously deserving Jordan and give it to Kobe.

It's a shame Kwame isn't any better...  we may have seen him win the GOAT PF one.

If you think the disparity between Baylor and Bird is the same as the disparity between Kwame and Malone, then you need help.

You're missing the whole point. It wasn't to compare the disparity... it was to show how the Laker cheerleaders vote based on the fact that they're Laker players... like Shallow said, if Bird was a Laker, then it would've been irrelevant to you guys whether Bird won or Baylor. And you're right about Malone being a bad example... after all, he did play for the Lakers at some point in his career, so him being voted in is alright.... like you said yourself:

when/if  karl malone wins that'll mean every player selected to the hall of fame has at one time played for the lakers

LOL. Jordan's gunna kill it...Jerry West or Elgin Baylor better win SF though.

But we'll see if the same strings are pulled again, since there's an obvious predetermination.

I said that because I believe they are two of the greatest small forwards ever, and MANY agree. I highly doubt you've even seen any of them play... Even career numbers would put Baylor and West over Bird, so you gotta stop acting like the votes are irrational...Your paranoia of conspiracies is ludicrous, man. No way SHAQ woulda' won over Wilt if the votings been Laker bias. And if there are bias votes, then who's to say there aren't hater votes? There's definitely a good amount of laker hating going around this board...Not to mention Joe Dumars is currently leading Jerry West in the fuckin shooting guard category... so keep your hilarious theories to yourself homie...PeACe

You doubt I've seen any of them play... because you're the Basketball God and nobody else's opinion counts. LOL. Get over yourself.
Again nobody mentioned anything about conspiracies... you either still don't know the definition or you got the wrong idea about what this is about.
LOL @ you using Shaq as an example... you mean to tell me Laker fans are fond of Shaq? Come on.. cut the bullshit.
You're right... it is probable that there are "hater votes"... and anyone that might believe that wouldn't be making any "ludicrous conspiracy theories".... which I, nor anybody else, don't need to keep myself if I want to post it... you have to realize that other people's opinions are just as, if not more, viable/credible as yours.

[J @ M @ L]

Anyways, I'm done here... it's not even like I care... I just made a comment because I found it funny... you were the only one that got all defensive... I didn't even mention that you played a role, but I can't keep you from catching feelings, so whatever... I'm really happy for the Laker fans in their DUBCC GOAT POLL victory... LOL at least there's something to celebrate after all.

[jeromechickenbone]

Baylor                                         
NBA Championships - 0
MVP's - 0
NBA Finals MVP - 0
All NBA 1st Team - 10
All Star Games - 11

Bird
NBA Championships - 3
MVP's - 3 CONSECUTIVE (Only 3rd person to ever do that at the time, and the first non-center)
NBA Finals MVP - 2
All-NBA 1st Team - 9
All Star Games - 12
Only forward to lead league in three-pointers made (82) and free throw percentage (.896)

Bird>Baylor

[J @ M @ L]

Baylor wore a Laker jersey, Bird didn't.
Baylor > Bird.

[jeromechickenbone]

Baylor wore a Laker jersey, Bird didn't.
Baylor > Bird.

And don't forget it was the Celts that deprived him of those rings...

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Elgin started the MJ/Dr. J style of play. There is no way I can vote against him in this one.

John Logie Baird started television as we know it backin the 20s, but I'd still rather watch a plasma screen on HD, and I'd still rather have Bird on my team. You  can have Baylor, but he won't be doing much against my team with Bird covering him. And Larry won't have a problem jumping over him with his 5 inches of height for the boards or sinking 3s from the outside.

Baylor would run circles against Bird.

Your opinion doesn't even count in this case. Anytime a Laker is involved everyone already knows what you're going to say.

So is my opinion not valid? Was Chick Hearns opinion not valid? Was Jerry West's opinion not valid? Baylor>Bird. Get over it.

Your opinion is not valid because if Bird played for the Lakers and Baylor never did then your opinion would change. Bringing up two guys that called Baylor's  games and played along side him respectively means nothing. Was Baylor more important to the evolution of the game than Bird? Maybe. Was he more of a standout player compared to the rest of the mooks in the league at that time? Sure. But you put Larry Bird and Elgin Baylor in their prime on two shitty teams in the NBA today and Larry's team will be in the finals with in 2 to 3 years while Baylor's team would fall apart because a 6'5'' forward won't cut it and his athletic ability compared to guys today won't mean as much like it did compared to the goofs in the NBA back then. Larry's genius is in his head. He's too smart not to be able to win and win and win. He's a leader and he leads teams to championships. Baylor never got to do that. Maybe if Baylor had Shaq to lead the way like Kobe did then Elgin would have won a couple, but his career went like how Kobe's will go for the rest of his career; no rings. He had 7 chances to beat Boston and Elgin couldn't do it. You take a '79 to '88 Larry Bird and put him on the Lakers in '59 and dollars to doughnuts the Celtics would go down at least 3 times. Larry was too smart and too much of a leader, but you have no concept of the what a leader is. If you did you wouldn't like Kobe as much as you do.

Kobe is not a leader? LOL. If he wasn't a leader, would he have led a BATTERED team composed mainly of D-League level talent to the fucking playoffs? Lemme guess, you're a huge Jordan fan, huh?...How much help did Jordan need before he could finally win something? As for Elgin Baylor, the Russell led Celtics won 9 titles during Baylor's career, that's not his fault. It doesn't make a difference in how great of a player he was either way. Was James Worthy better than Elgin Baylor too? (<A Laker comparison for that ass). That's as dumb as saying that 6'5" isn't a good size for a small forward. And speaking of Elgin Baylor in his prime vs. Larry Bird in his prime...


Larry Bird-
PPG: 29.9
RPG: 9.3
APG: 6.1

Elgin Baylor-
PPG: 34.6
RPG: 19.8
APG: 5.1





Hmmmmm...I guess I'm soooo bias, huh? Get the fuck out of here. Until you see me making irrational claims, you have nothing on me, bro.

Like I said, Bird would have figured out how to beat the Russel Celtics at least 3 times. Those stats are a waste of text. Look at the league in the 80s compared to the 60s. The other players were way better in the 80s than in the 60s. The game was different and Larry was a leader. A guy who took his team from one of the worst to the playoffs in his rookie season and he was too smart to be beatan 7 times in the finals by 1 team.

Worthy had rings yeah, but if Baylor had Magic and Jabbar, he'd have rings too.

If Baylor was on the 80's Celtic squads, he'd have rings too. I highly doubt you know shit about Baylor, so please don't speak from ignorance...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

If this thread is any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if the same strings are pulled in the SG poll... they might screw over the obviously deserving Jordan and give it to Kobe.

It's a shame Kwame isn't any better...  we may have seen him win the GOAT PF one.

If you think the disparity between Baylor and Bird is the same as the disparity between Kwame and Malone, then you need help.

You're missing the whole point. It wasn't to compare the disparity... it was to show how the Laker cheerleaders vote based on the fact that they're Laker players... like Shallow said, if Bird was a Laker, then it would've been irrelevant to you guys whether Bird won or Baylor. And you're right about Malone being a bad example... after all, he did play for the Lakers at some point in his career, so him being voted in is alright.... like you said yourself:

when/if  karl malone wins that'll mean every player selected to the hall of fame has at one time played for the lakers

LOL. Jordan's gunna kill it...Jerry West or Elgin Baylor better win SF though.

But we'll see if the same strings are pulled again, since there's an obvious predetermination.

I said that because I believe they are two of the greatest small forwards ever, and MANY agree. I highly doubt you've even seen any of them play... Even career numbers would put Baylor and West over Bird, so you gotta stop acting like the votes are irrational...Your paranoia of conspiracies is ludicrous, man. No way SHAQ woulda' won over Wilt if the votings been Laker bias. And if there are bias votes, then who's to say there aren't hater votes? There's definitely a good amount of laker hating going around this board...Not to mention Joe Dumars is currently leading Jerry West in the fuckin shooting guard category... so keep your hilarious theories to yourself homie...PeACe

You doubt I've seen any of them play... because you're the Basketball God and nobody else's opinion counts. LOL. Get over yourself.
Again nobody mentioned anything about conspiracies... you either still don't know the definition or you got the wrong idea about what this is about.
LOL @ you using Shaq as an example... you mean to tell me Laker fans are fond of Shaq? Come on.. cut the bullshit.
You're right... it is probable that there are "hater votes"... and anyone that might believe that wouldn't be making any "ludicrous conspiracy theories".... which I, nor anybody else, don't need to keep myself if I want to post it... you have to realize that other people's opinions are just as, if not more, viable/credible as yours.

Of course Laker fans hate Shaq...LOL@that. That's why it was amazing that SHAQ BEAT OUT WILT in the polls, despite the fact that Wilt is considered the much greater center...And thinking Laker fans are secretly bumping up the polls IS a conspiracy theory, which my Shaq-Wilt example proved wrong. It actually seems like YOU have the wrong definition homie...PeACe

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Baylor                                         
NBA Championships - 0
MVP's - 0
NBA Finals MVP - 0
All NBA 1st Team - 10
All Star Games - 11

Bird
NBA Championships - 3
MVP's - 3 CONSECUTIVE (Only 3rd person to ever do that at the time, and the first non-center)
NBA Finals MVP - 2
All-NBA 1st Team - 9
All Star Games - 12
Only forward to lead league in three-pointers made (82) and free throw percentage (.896)

Bird>Baylor

The league didn't have 2 players as dominant as Wilt and Russell when Bird played, so the MVP/Championship argument is nonesense. Anyone who knows the history of the Lakers knows they were a top team with Baylor, but were cursed by the Russell led Celtics for a whole decade. They even lost the years they had the better team. When it comes to accomplishments, Bird was better. But as an individual player, it's Baylor. Even your ALL-NBA 1st Team list shows that...PeACe

[J @ M @ L]

Of course Laker fans hate Shaq...LOL@that. That's why it was amazing that SHAQ BEAT OUT WILT in the polls, despite the fact that Wilt is considered the much greater center...And thinking Laker fans are secretly bumping up the polls IS a conspiracy theory, which my Shaq-Wilt example proved wrong. It actually seems like YOU have the wrong definition homie...PeACe

It doesn't matter if Shaq beat Wilt because it was obvious that Kareem was gonna win it all regardless... much in the same way that it didn't matter to you if West or Baylor won for SF... as I've quoted you saying... as long as it's a Laker, it's all good.

You obviously STILL don't know the definition of a conspiracy theory. It would've made more sense for you to look it up at some point.... so I'll help you out.

conspiracy theory - a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

Now follow along slowly... I never stated that you Laker cheerleaders got together and said let's all vote for Lakers... I said that people made their own choice to vote for them but did simply for the fact that they were Lakers... that is not a conspiracy theory. Get your basics down next time.