Article I wrote for the World Student Press Agency about the Taliban

[King Tech Quadafi]

Im doing some Political Correspondent work for them

http://studentpa.info/spip.php?article244

peep the script

[I TO DA GEEZY]

Informative and to the point.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Im doing some Political Correspondent work for them

http://studentpa.info/spip.php?article244

peep the script

I read the whole article in it's entirety, here is my perspective on it (in case anyone actually cares).

On Tech's Writing

-I love Tech, I'm supportive of him, he is my Muslim brother.  I wish you success in your correspondence work.  I think your background, intelligence, and creativity will allow you to exceed others in your field.

-You were dealing with a complex subject, yet the article was clear, concise, and easy to read.  It was written intelligently, yet at the same time you did not try to overdo it by impressing people with an excess of esoteric verbal husk.

As for my perspective on the explanations and solutions offered by Tech in the article

-First we must recognize that big government projects don't ever work in the way it intends.  It always sets forth a high agenda and then fails to deliver because big government is a bureaucratic mess.  For example, these politicians push pencils in their offices and talk about ways to end the poppy trade, when what they really need to do is get out of it altogether.  It's like the drug war in America that has never worked.  Drug use is a victim less crime.  When the government gets involved that's when drug trade becomes dangerous; in the same way that alcohol trading became dangerous during the prohibition era in America. 

-On the one hand Tech admits that the Taliban provided security to Afganistan, and that there was an oppurtunity for negotiations both inside and outside find solutions to problems that will surely arise no matter who is in charge of the country.  So therefore, it's obvious that the Taliban government should have never been dismantled by the United States in the first place.  Tech acts surprised that the United States big government program for the region didn't work, but it has never worked, not now, and not in the past.  if the United States feared an attack from Bin Laden, the Taliban declared openly that they were willing to give up Usama Bin Laden, all that they asked for was that Bush produced the evidence that he was behind the attacks.  And absolutely no attempt was made to provide any evidence, because King Bush said he's guilty, he must be guilty, end of story.

-Next, again, Tech is calling for all these big government programs to have meetings amongst tribes, and between the border regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan regularly amongst the people.   And on and on and on.  And so what your saying is that some government is going to go there and force these people to meet once a week and sit down and have a potluck dinner meeting a discuss how to solve their problems.  I make the same point once again, no BIG GOVERNMENT can make them do that.  These people can join together on their own, possibly in the name of Islam, but as long as you have to force them to attend some meeting at the barrel of a gun because the US or the United Nation (which is basically the same thing) says they have to, it's not going to work.

-Finally, the solution is simple.  Get the United States out.  Get the United Nations out.  Let the people living in these regions decide their own destiny.  That is the only solution.  Otherwise, you have another Big Government program thinking it is going to force people to do things they don't want, and which are often against their own interest, and it looks good on paper but never works. 

 

[J @ M @ L]

Sick ass article bro. Props to you kosskhor.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

...and one more point, even if all of Tech's solutions were agreed upon, they would fail in the implementation process.  This kind of stuff sounds good on paper, but no external force such as the United States or United Nations is going to force people to do things at the barrel of the gun.

[King Tech Quadafi]

First of all guys, I appreciate any and all feedback, thanks for the support.

Infinite, I appreciate your take on my article.


1st- You have to understand, this is a non profit international website i write for. its not train of thought. so i cant show up yellin bang bang taliban gang. its a site predominately visited by students from north america and europe. this demographic was surprised the us big govt program didnt work. i saw right through the motherfucker but i have to present it, so that the people who are reading it can best internalize it. i have to give it to em from their point of view. one must act like a wolf or a sheep according to the situation;s requirements.  King Tech didnt write that article, Abdul R Karim did. Yes I believe this is an extreme world best described by an extreme truth. but that truth can be so extreme it needs to be administered in doses. You have to be more pragmatic, akhee.

2nd- Big government programs are the ONLY way to make the tribes work. I dont think you understand. The Pashtuns are not your average motherfuckers. We are GANG BANGERS before such shit existed.  Durranis and Ghilzais were bangin on each other centuries before Bloods and Crips, or even the Wild Wild West. We suscribe to Pakhtunwalli, a code of law that predates ISLAM.

Left to our own machinations, we'll kill each other. Thats how fucked we are, as a people. You might say in response, well, the Taliban united everyone under Islam. First, they had to go through dozens of Pashtun commanders to achieve that. Second, the Taliban themselves WERE a Big Govt Project. Specifically the Pakistani (and to a lesser extent, Saudi) govt project. The Taliban was an ISI project.

Do you know why the fiercely independent and xenophobic Pashtuns havent wilded out and gone ape shit on everyone the last 100 or so years? Because of Big govt projects. The Pakistani govt administers the area through co operation (or outright co ercion depending on the circumstance) of the tribes and by bribing them! The Afghan govt up until 20 years ago was made up of Durrani Pashtuns.


As for the implementation. Well, Im no politician or bureaucrat. Im a writer. Im supposed to look good on paper. 

[Bramsterdam (see ya)]

I'll give it a read tomorrow and post up thoughts.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

First of all guys, I appreciate any and all feedback, thanks for the support.

Infinite, I appreciate your take on my article.


1st- You have to understand, this is a non profit international website i write for. its not train of thought. so i cant show up yellin bang bang taliban gang. its a site predominately visited by students from north america and europe. this demographic was surprised the us big govt program didnt work. i saw right through the motherfucker but i have to present it, so that the people who are reading it can best internalize it. i have to give it to em from their point of view. one must act like a wolf or a sheep according to the situation;s requirements.  King Tech didnt write that article, Abdul R Karim did. Yes I believe this is an extreme world best described by an extreme truth. but that truth can be so extreme it needs to be administered in doses. You have to be more pragmatic, akhee.

2nd- Big government programs are the ONLY way to make the tribes work. I dont think you understand. The Pashtuns are not your average motherfuckers. We are GANG BANGERS before such shit existed.  Durranis and Ghilzais were bangin on each other centuries before Bloods and Crips, or even the Wild Wild West. We suscribe to Pakhtunwalli, a code of law that predates ISLAM.

Left to our own machinations, we'll kill each other. Thats how fucked we are, as a people. You might say in response, well, the Taliban united everyone under Islam. First, they had to go through dozens of Pashtun commanders to achieve that. Second, the Taliban themselves WERE a Big Govt Project. Specifically the Pakistani (and to a lesser extent, Saudi) govt project. The Taliban was an ISI project.

Do you know why the fiercely independent and xenophobic Pashtuns havent wilded out and gone ape shit on everyone the last 100 or so years? Because of Big govt projects. The Pakistani govt administers the area through co operation (or outright co ercion depending on the circumstance) of the tribes and by bribing them! The Afghan govt up until 20 years ago was made up of Durrani Pashtuns.


As for the implementation. Well, Im no politician or bureaucrat. Im a writer. Im supposed to look good on paper. 

I understand your writing for a paper and everything, and I opened up by complimenting you on how well-written it was.

As far as a Big huge government being necessary to make peace amongst the tribes, let's assume for now that I take your word for that.  But how did you feel about my statements regarding the Poppy trade, you never responded to that.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

...Now back to this issue of making peace amongst the tribes.   Tech, so you have this plan that you would suggest to implement in the region to "have consistent meetings".  Okay, so you say there has to be a big government program there to bring the two sides together for this "meeting" and keep them from pulling out AK 47's and killing each other. 

So then can we offer you as one of the foot soldiers to go there and force these tribes to be peaceful?

My point is, I would be rather humble in proposing any solutions for these people.  And you say that they can't work it out themselves, and I say then why don't you go there and be the one to force them to work it out.

And you said they need money and funds to rebuild their infrastructure, where is the money going to come from to implement these projects and proposals?  The U.S. taxpayer?  I'm not interested in paying for some Big United Nations/Nato task force that is going to carry with it a magical silver bullet to solve all these people's problems and bring peace to the region.  Because it's a bureaucratic nightmare, and it won't work.


 

[King Tech Quadafi]

...Now back to this issue of making peace amongst the tribes.   Tech, so you have this plan that you would suggest to implement in the region to "have consistent meetings".  Okay, so you say there has to be a big government program there to bring the two sides together for this "meeting" and keep them from pulling out AK 47's and killing each other. 

So then can we offer you as one of the foot soldiers to go there and force these tribes to be peaceful?

My point is, I would be rather humble in proposing any solutions for these people.  And you say that they can't work it out themselves, and I say then why don't you go there and be the one to force them to work it out.

And you said they need money and funds to rebuild their infrastructure, where is the money going to come from to implement these projects and proposals?  The U.S. taxpayer?  I'm not interested in paying for some Big United Nations/Nato task force that is going to carry with it a magical silver bullet to solve all these people's problems and bring peace to the region.  Because it's a bureaucratic nightmare, and it won't work.


 

Suggesting i go there to work things out offers nothing to this discussion. You and I both know that. Its posturing at best.

In regards to the drug issue, while poppy growth has always been around in some form or another, keep in mind that wide scale produciton and distribution of poppies in Afghanistan was organzied at the governmental level between the CIA and the ISI. Only the creator can be the destroyer.
I suggest reading up on the long and deeply entrenched heroin industry in the region and their ties to the Pakistani and American govts. The UN Intl Drug Control Programme UNDCP) reports would be a great place to start. Also Lawrence Lifschultz's "Pakistan, the Empire of Heroin" is another key text.

As for consistent meetings, I admit i was rather vague on that. But im 23 years old, neither a politician nor a PHD in the matter.  Its quite obvious however, that Afghan and Pakistani govts need to corrolate their border policies, because the same problems and people exist on both sides of the border. Im simply emphasizing the need for dialogue and communication.  The Tribes of the region need to be placated, they need to be funded, and the region desperately needs education funding to counter Taliban influence. And yes, some of this funding should come from the US Govt. They feel Afghanistan is a priority, they spend billions there anyways, Im simply callin em out. If youve gone down this path, go down it correctly. Use the money better, and show the country the priority it deserves.

I feel that your liberterian anti  big govt ideology works alot better in the US then it does around the world, where in alot of places big govt is necessary because society, social structures and individuals are not developed and self sustaining like in the States.

[Don Rizzle]

much better than the dribble you often write in here well done for actually giving reasoned points.

for those who say big government projects don't work can I ask what is thealternative  solution to funding in improvemnts in a war zone? everyone is is asking for american/western money to improve afganistan, but should they really be expected to give it to anyone coming to them with open hands? I agree beaurocracy sucks ass and is fundimentally wastefull but without it, abuse will be rife and money will be misuesed and it will be the talibani taking advantage,

[virtuoso]

Very well written article and understand your reasonings behind not doing it, but i am a little disappointed that you didn't mention a fundamental area which blows apart so many perceptions. Just in case you had forgotten here is the article I am talking about....

n late November 2001, the Northern Alliance supported by US bombing raids took the hill town of Kunduz in Northern Afghanistan. Eight thousand or more men "had been trapped inside the city in the last days of the siege, roughly half of whom were Pakistanis.  Afghans, Uzbeks, Chechens, and various Arab mercenaries accounted for the rest." (Seymour M. Hersh, The Getaway, The New Yorker, 21 January 2002, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HER206A.html  )

Also among these fighters were several senior Pakistani military and intelligence officers, who had been sent to the war theater by the Pakistani military.

The presence of high-ranking Pakistani military and intelligence advisers in the ranks of Taliban/ Al Qaeda forces was known and approved by the Washington.

Moreover, Pakistan’s military intelligence, the ISI, which was overseeing the operation, had a close and longstanding working relationship with the CIA; since the 1980s it has channeled support to a number of terrorist organizations, including Al Qaeda and the Taliban, acting on behalf of its US counterpart. (See Michel Chossudovsky, War and Globalization, the Truth behind September 11 ,  2002. Ch. 2, 3 and 4. http://globalresearch.ca/globaloutlook/truth911.html )

According to Seymour M. Hersh:

    "President Bush said, ‘We're smoking them out. They're running, and now we're going to bring them to justice.’" (Seymour Hersh, op cit)

In fact, most of them were never brought to justice, nor were they detained or interrogated. On the orders of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, they were flown to safety:

    "The Administration ordered the US Central Command to set up a special air corridor to help insure the safety of the Pakistani rescue flights from Kunduz to the northwest corner of Pakistan" (Ibid)

    "Musharraf won American support for the airlift by warning that the humiliation of losing hundreds-and perhaps thousands-of Pakistani Army men and intelligence operatives would jeopardize his political survival. 'Clearly, there is a great willingness to help Musharraf,' an American intelligence official told me. A C.I.A. analyst said that it was his understanding that the decision to permit the airlift was made by the White House and was indeed driven by a desire to protect the Pakistani leader. The airlift 'made sense at the time,' the C.I.A. analyst said. 'Many of the people they spirited away were the Taliban leadership'-who Pakistan hoped could play a role in a postwar Afghan government. According to this person, 'Musharraf wanted to have these people to put another card on the table' in future political negotiations. 'We were supposed to have access to them,' he said, but 'it didn't happen,' and the rescued Taliban remain unavailable to American intelligence.

    According to a former high-level American defense official, the airlift was approved because of representations by the Pakistanis that "there were guys- intelligence agents and underground guys-who needed to get out." (Seymour Hersh, op cit)

In other words, the official story was:  "we were tricked into it" by the Pakistani ISI.

Out of some 8000 or more men, 3300 surrendered to the Northern Alliance, leaving between 4000 and 5000 men "unaccounted for". According to Hersh’s investigation, based on Indian intelligence sources, at least 4000 men including two Pakistani Army generals were evacuated. (Ibid)

US officials admitted, however, that

    "what was supposed to be a limited evacuation apparently slipped out of control, and, as an unintended consequence, an unknown number of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters managed to join in the exodus."  (quoted in Hersh op cit)

An Indian Press report confirms that those evacuated courtesy of Uncle Sam were not the moderate elements of the Taliban, but rather the "hard-core Taliban" and Al Qaeda fighters. (Times of India, 24 January 2002).
 "Terrorists"  or "Intelligence Assets" ?

As part of an operation led by Pakistan's ISI,  the foreign and Pakistani Al Qaeda fighters were flown to North Pakistan. Many of these fighters were subsequently incorporated into the two main Kashmiri terrorist rebel groups, Lashkar-e-Taiba ("Army of the Pure") and Jaish-e-Muhammad ("Army of Mohammed").

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) confirms  that  both Jaish and Lashkar are supported by Pakistan's ISI:

    "through its Interservices Intelligence agency (ISI), Pakistan has provided funding, arms, training facilities, and aid in crossing borders to Lashkar and Jaish…Many were given ideological training in the same madrasas, or Muslim seminaries, that taught the Taliban and foreign fighters in Afghanistan. They received military training at camps in Afghanistan or in villages in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. Extremist groups [supported by the ISI] have recently opened several new madrasas in Azad Kashmir." (Council on Foreign Relations at http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/harakat2.html , Washington 2002)

What the CFR fails to mention is the crucial relationship between the ISI and the CIA and the fact that the ISI continues to support Lashkar, Jaish and the militant Jammu and Kashmir Hizbul Mujahideen (JKHM), while also collaborating with the CIA. Coinciding with the 1989 Geneva Peace Agreement and the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, the ISI was instrumental in the creation of the militant Jammu and Kashmir Hizbul Mujahideen (JKHM).(See K. Subrahmanyam, Pakistan is Pursuing Asian Goals, India Abroad, 3 November 1995.).

In the wake of the US bombing of Afghanistan, US press reports confirmed that one of the main consequences of (the US sponsored) evacuation of Al Qaeda fighters out of Kunduz in November 2001 was to reinforce the Kashmiri terrorists organisations:

    Even today [March 2002], over 70 per cent of those involved in terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir are not Kashmiri youths but ISI trained Pakistani nationals. There are also a few thousand such Jehadis in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir prepared to cross the LOC. It is also a matter of time before hundreds from amongst those the Bush Administration so generously allowed to be airlifted and escape from Kunduz in Afghanistan join these terrorists in J&K. (Business Line, 4 March 2002)

A few months following the November 2001 "Getaway", the Indian Parliament in Delhi is attacked by Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Muhammad. (January 2002)

Moreover, since the onslaught of the US bombing of Afghanistan (October 2001), the Al Qaeda-ISI sponsored Ansar al-Islam in Northern Iraq has grown in size, most probably incorporating Al Qaeda fighters who fled Afghanistan in the wake of the US bombings. (Christian Science Monitor, 15 March 2002). While there was no firm evidence, one suspects that some of the Mujahideen fighters airlifted out of Kunduz in the US sponsored evacuation were subsequently relocated to other countries including Northern Iraq. (See Michel Chossudovsky, Who is behind the "Terrorist Network" in Northern Iraq, Baghdad or Washington? http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO302B.html )

Kidnapping Civilians

The plight of the Guantanamo detainees is now coming to light with the release of prisoners from the Camp Delta Concentration camp in Guantanamo, after more than two years of captivity.

The evidence suggests that most of the detainees are in fact civilians.

Compare Seymour Hersh’s account in the "Getaway" pertaining to the US sponsored evacuation of  hard core Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters with the various accounts and testimonies pertaining to the deportation of innocent civilians to Guantanamo.

What these comparisons convey is that Al Qaeda fighters and their senior Pakistani advisers were "saved" on the orders of Donald Rumsfeld. Meanwhile, also on the orders of the Secretary of Defense,  innocent civilians who had no relationship whatsoever to the war theater were categorized as "enemy combatants", kidnapped, interrogated and sent to Guantanamo.

Why?

Did the Bush administration need to "recruit detainees" among the civilian population and pass them off as "terrorists"?

Did they need to boost up the numbers "to fill the gap" resulting from the several thousand Al Qaeda fighters, who had been evacuated on the orders of Donald Rumsfeld and flown to safety? Were these "terrorists" needed in Kashmir in the context of a CIA covert op?

Whatever the motivation, we are dealing with a diabolical intelligence operation.

Some 660 people from 42 countries, are currently being held in the Camp Delta concentration camp in Guantanamo. While US officials claim that they are "enemy combatants" arrested in Afghanistan, a large number of the civilian detainees have never set foot in Afghanistan. They were kidnapped in several foreign countries including Pakistan, Bosnia and Gambia on the West Coast of Africa, and taken to the US military base in Bagram, Afghanistan, before being transported to Guantanamo.

Kellogg, Brown & Root (KBR), the British subsidiary of Vice President Dick Cheney's company Halliburton has a multimillion dollar contract to expand the facilities of the Guantanamo concentration camp including the construction of prisoner cells, guard barracks and interrogation rooms. The objective is to bring "detainee capacity to 1,000" (Vanity Fair, January 2004)

At least three children are being held at Guantanamo, aged between 13 and 15 years old. According to Pentagon officials: "the boys were brought to Guantanamo Bay because they were considered a threat and they had "high value" intelligence that U.S. authorities wanted." (Washington Post, 23 August 2003). According to Britain's Muslim News: "out of the window has gone any regard for the norms of international law and order ... with Muslims liable to be kidnapped in any part of the world to be transported to Guantanamo Bay and face summary justice." ( http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/index/press.php?pr=177 )
Recent Developments in Northern Pakistan

As the US elections approach,  the search for bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahri has picked up pace in the border regions of Northern Pakistan.  This search has been carefully timed to coincide with the election campaign.

In October 2003, in coordination with the Pentagon, the Pakistani military launched an operation in the tribal areas of northern Pakistan,  following the visit in October to Islamabad of Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Assistant Secretary of State Christina Rocca.

The Pentagon describes the strategy to go after bin Laden as a "hammer and anvil" approach, "with Pakistani troops moving into semiautonomous tribal areas on their side of the border, and Afghans and American forces sweeping the forbidding terrain on the other". (The Record, Kitchener, 13 March 2004).

In March 2004, Britain's Sunday Express, quoting "a US intelligence source"  reported that

    "bin Laden and about 50 supporters had been boxed in among the Toba Kakar mountainous north of the Pakistani city of Quetta and were being watched by satellite... Pakistan then sent several thousand extra troops to the tribal area of South Waziristan, just to the north."  (quoted in South China morning Post, 7 March 2004)

In a bitter irony, it was to this Northern region of Pakistan that at least 4000 Al Qaeda fighters were airlifted in the first place, back in November 2001, on the orders of Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And these Al Qaeda units were also being supplied by Pakistan's ISI. (UPI, 1 November 2001)

In other words, units of Pakistan's military intelligence, the ISI, --which had coordinated the November 2001 evacuation on behalf of Uncle Sam--  are now involved in the "hammer and anvil" search for Al Qaeda in northern Pakistan, with the support of Pakistani regular forces and US Special Forces. 

From a military standpoint, it does not make sense. Evacuate the enemy to safe-haven, and then two years later in the months leading up to the presidential elections, "go after them" in the tribal hills of North Pakistan.

Why did they not arrest the al Qaeda fighters in November 2001?

Is it incompetence or poor military planning? Or is it a diabolical covert op to safeguard and sustain "enemy number one"? Because without this "outside enemy" personified by Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahri, there would be no "war on terrorism".

And Bush needs more than the rhetoric of the "war on terrorism", he desperately needs a "real" war on terrorism, within the chosen theater of the tribal areas of Northern Pakistan, which can be broadcast on network TV in the US and around the World.  "The war on terrorism"  is the cornerstone of Bush's presidential election campaign. A media propaganda and PR operation has been launched.

Yet if the truth trickles down to the broader public regarding the administration's covert support to Al Qaeda,  this campaign strategy may in fact backlash.

A major war in Central Asia and the Middle East, supposedly against international terrorism, has been launched by a government which is harboring international terrorism as part of its foreign policy agenda.

In this context, the hidden agenda behind "Operation Enduring Freedom" launched in October 2001, was precisely to ensure that Al Qaeda leaders (i.e. US sponsored intelligence assets) be able to escape.  This operation was an integral part of the propaganda ploy. Al Qaeda fighters were flown to safety to keep the war on terrorism alive.

Al Zawahri is now being identified by the media as the brain behind 9/11, which usefully serves to distract public attention from the fact, amply documented,  that the Bush administration had foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks.

[King Tech Quadafi]

virtuoso i am well aware of that incident. it goes to show the level of pakistani intelligence inflitration of the taliban. however, i really wanted to go for a general thing here, considering it was my first article. i can write 10 articles condeming pakistani interferwence in Afghanistan. but i have to tread a careful line here,

[virtuoso]

Oh agreed I take it you also acknowledge that the ISI is another cog of the CIA also though i.e. shall we say they are closely linked, like I said though very good article and much more focused than a lot of the continuous mainstream media who are acting in the majority of cases more like a collective propogandanist mouthpiece of the government rather than independent journalists focused on getting at the truth of the matter.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Brother Tech, if you don't mind I would like to continue our discussion.  (And by the way, I hope it goes without saying, just because I disagree with you about what to do about the problems in Afghanistan, does not mean that I wasn't thoroughly impressed with your article, your talent, and applauding your efforts).

...........................................................................

I don't feel that you really answered my suggestion about what to do about the poppy trade.  My suggestion was that no government body, not the Karzai's puppet government, not America's occupation, nor the UN, nor NATO should do anything about the poppy trade.  They should get government out of it!  So what if these poor farmers are making money off the poppy trade.  Drug use is a victim less crime.  It is a choice made by an individual, should we set up a government program to try to get Tech to stop smoking weed?

I used the alcohol prohibition era in America as an example.  America actually used to be a relatively safe country until the government stepped in and declared that alcohol was illegal.  Immediately, the crime rate sky rocketed, businesses could no longer sell alcohol safely in stores, and so instead crime bosses such as the Mafia came to power and started selling alcohol illegally, and to do so they had to practice violence, coercion, bribery, thievery, and on and on.

Same thing with the drug war today.  Instead of businesses such as the drug company Bayer selling drugs safely in stores, the drug laws have filled prisons with non-violent offenders, forced citizens to pay astronomical taxes to fund police forces, FBI, and CIA officials to chase down drug kingpins, and on and on and on.

...and of course none of these programs worked and drug use continues at an all time high.  As long as there is a great demand there will be a supply.  The poppy trade didn't end in Afghanistan in the 90's just because the Taliban was supposedly standing over them with a gun, it ended because Islamic virtue was promoted and many of the people themselves made a decision that they were willing to follow along to some degree.

Next point,

About the violence.  I still don't buy the argument that if it wasn't for big government stepping in these people would completely annihilate each other.  If this problem is historic, then somehow these people were finding a means of existence before such big government organizations as the United Nations, the Big Bad United States World Police Task Force, the Soviet Union, and NATO were formed.