Ken Griffey Jr.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barry Bonds

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I'm just glad ballers don't fuck with the roids.

[Shallow]

I'm just glad ballers don't fuck with the roids.

I'm pretty sure they do. Like I said it's not just about brute force muscles. Steroids are also used for speed and a stamina. And really go out and take a look at 6'10+ people. Thet don't look big. Most are very lanky. If you have any bulk at that height it's rare. They are all on roids. I don't care what sport it is. Once you get in a position where people you are better than are beationg you because they aren't getting tired and running faster you start taking the shit too. Because it's not fair that those guys should have an edge.

[WC Iz Active]

^^I gotta disagree with ya there homie,  I dont believe steroids are a problem in the NBA.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

I'm just glad ballers don't fuck with the roids.

I'm pretty sure they do. Like I said it's not just about brute force muscles. Steroids are also used for speed and a stamina. And really go out and take a look at 6'10+ people. Thet don't look big. Most are very lanky. If you have any bulk at that height it's rare. They are all on roids. I don't care what sport it is. Once you get in a position where people you are better than are beationg you because they aren't getting tired and running faster you start taking the shit too. Because it's not fair that those guys should have an edge.

Name me one basketball player who you think has fucked with roids...

[MontrealCity's Most]

Very hard to say as i dont remember these players in the late 80s i was to youung...

From what i keep hearing tho was thta Ken Griffey was the next one, good bat good d.

With that said this is a great thread great discussion, i might use it for another sport to compare athletes.

[Shallow]

^^I gotta disagree with ya there homie,  I dont believe steroids are a problem in the NBA.
[/quote


If they were a problem in soccer then they are a problem in basketball. It's just not as bad as it is with Baseball in public opinion because because there is nothing to measure it in. There is no homeruns that would have been pop outs. It's not as big a deal as a power forward or centre bulking up to play the post. Or a gaurd using it to stay fast on defense and keep up stamina. Take a look at David Robinson's arms and shoulders for example and compare them to most men over 6'8 with a slim build. It's not like he's a big fat tall guy.

I'm just glad ballers don't fuck with the roids.

I'm pretty sure they do. Like I said it's not just about brute force muscles. Steroids are also used for speed and a stamina. And really go out and take a look at 6'10+ people. Thet don't look big. Most are very lanky. If you have any bulk at that height it's rare. They are all on roids. I don't care what sport it is. Once you get in a position where people you are better than are beationg you because they aren't getting tired and running faster you start taking the shit too. Because it's not fair that those guys should have an edge.

Name me one basketball player who you think has fucked with roids...

Kobe Bryant and Magic Johnson. Everyone but Jordan, Bird, Shaq and Steve Nash have taken Steroids. Those are the only four to not touch it. Maybe Duncan too.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Kobe Bryant and Magic Johnson. Everyone but Jordan, Bird, Shaq and Steve Nash have taken Steroids. Those are the only four to not touch it. Maybe Duncan too.

ROFLMFAO!...Shallow for poster of the year.

[eS El Duque]

Bonds -  6'2  229lbs

A-Rod  -  6'3  226lbs




LOL at the media puppets thinking A-Roid is clean
(waits for some more idiotic posts)

Don't know if A-Rod is clean or not, but you're basing it on the fact that he is taller and lighter than Bonds?  Am I missing something here?

But lets remember - Griffey Jr. >>>Bonds.

The point I am making is everyone says Bonds is guilty because he is so fuckin big for a baseball player and Arod is extremely comparable in size.

No hes guilty BECUASE THERE IS PROOF

[jeromechickenbone]

chea

<a href="http://youtube.com/v/2qmIphUOrVQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/2qmIphUOrVQ</a>

[Styles1]

Pitching speeds have been the same over the years.... Nolan Ryan and J.R. Richardson used to break the 100 mph mark and that was in the late 70's/early 80's. More pitchers back then used to "finish" games as oppossed to today's pitchers which are pulled after a 5 inning performance.

If pitchers are on Roids, it's not making much of a difference.

Top speeds for top pitchers are the same. Cy Young could throy a cyclone, hence the name, but to have so many pitchers on so many teams constantly breaking the 90s over and over for so many years says something. And steroids were around in the 70s and 80s. It hit the sports world in the 50s but no one wants to talk about about because then we'd have to look at heroes like Muhammad Ali, Micky Mantle, and Roger Maris's 61 in '61 now gets called into question. It would cast such a shadow over so many people's biggest heroes and would hurt the credibility of the game.


Let me give you a history lesson; the USSR used steroids to make sure their olympic team won a bag of medals in '52, '56, and '60. Around '58 the US, after a terrible loss to the USSR in '56, decided that the Soviets had an advantage that needed to become a US advantage. Right away it became part of the olympic training and quickly made it's way to the rest of sports. By '64 when the program was off it's feet the US came back like a rocket in the olympics and in '68 they ran right over the Soviets. So any american athlete that acheived anything after 1958 is a possible steroid user. And any olympian that won anything during the Cold War was definately on the juice. Whether that be Mike Tyson or George Foreman. They wouldn't even have had to know it but they were on it.

You have to look at Steroid side-effects.... Baseball players weren't growing rapdily in those eras... Not saying that nobody was doing it, but it wasn't as prevalent. The only time those players got bigger was when they got old and out of shape.

[Shallow]

Pitching speeds have been the same over the years.... Nolan Ryan and J.R. Richardson used to break the 100 mph mark and that was in the late 70's/early 80's. More pitchers back then used to "finish" games as oppossed to today's pitchers which are pulled after a 5 inning performance.

If pitchers are on Roids, it's not making much of a difference.

Top speeds for top pitchers are the same. Cy Young could throy a cyclone, hence the name, but to have so many pitchers on so many teams constantly breaking the 90s over and over for so many years says something. And steroids were around in the 70s and 80s. It hit the sports world in the 50s but no one wants to talk about about because then we'd have to look at heroes like Muhammad Ali, Micky Mantle, and Roger Maris's 61 in '61 now gets called into question. It would cast such a shadow over so many people's biggest heroes and would hurt the credibility of the game.


Let me give you a history lesson; the USSR used steroids to make sure their olympic team won a bag of medals in '52, '56, and '60. Around '58 the US, after a terrible loss to the USSR in '56, decided that the Soviets had an advantage that needed to become a US advantage. Right away it became part of the olympic training and quickly made it's way to the rest of sports. By '64 when the program was off it's feet the US came back like a rocket in the olympics and in '68 they ran right over the Soviets. So any american athlete that acheived anything after 1958 is a possible steroid user. And any olympian that won anything during the Cold War was definately on the juice. Whether that be Mike Tyson or George Foreman. They wouldn't even have had to know it but they were on it.

You have to look at Steroid side-effects.... Baseball players weren't growing rapdily in those eras... Not saying that nobody was doing it, but it wasn't as prevalent. The only time those players got bigger was when they got old and out of shape.

Steroids and work out techniques have advanced. Look at the average gym goer of today, even the ones with no roids. Compare their bodies to the bodies of the 60s. Look at pro wrestlers today and look at pro wrestlers in the late 70s and 80s. You had Billy Graham, Jimmy Snuka, and Warrior with greatly sculpted bulky bodies but these days you see bodies like that on every new guy that comes in. People didn't work out like they used to. And steroids weren't as big a part of the deal as it now. It was just starting out. As the bodybuilders figured out new techniques the athletes got them. Steroids wasn't definately there in the 60s and 70s bodybuilding world with Governor Arnold, he's admitted to it. Compare Arnie's body in its prime to the bodies of Ronnie Coleman or Dorian Yates. Compare the number of personal trainers for athletes in the 60s and 70s to now. Steroids were always there but how you took advantage of them evolved with time.

In Bond's case it wasn't just roids. He hit the gym a lot over the years. Something he didn't do much of when he was young, and he naturally gained weight with age. Even with out roids Bonds would have been a lot bigger now than he was in '91.

[Styles1]

And steroids weren't as big a part of the deal as it now. It was just starting out.

That pretty much sums up my last post...

But going back to my original one, Roids haven't been much help to pitchers these days.... since speed hasn't increased and none of them can seem to go past 6 innings these days..

As for Bonds.... he has great hand/eye co-ordination and I don't believe a drug had any help in that area. That's a natural skill. Where the drugs kicked in was the ability to carry the ball further than he normally would have. There is a good chance that some of those homeruns would have been long fly outs without the aid of roids.

[MontrealCity's Most]

Were getting away fro the topic i think wich is Griffey>>>>> Bonds

[Shallow]

And steroids weren't as big a part of the deal as it now. It was just starting out.

That pretty much sums up my last post...

But going back to my original one, Roids haven't been much help to pitchers these days.... since speed hasn't increased and none of them can seem to go past 6 innings these days..

As for Bonds.... he has great hand/eye co-ordination and I don't believe a drug had any help in that area. That's a natural skill. Where the drugs kicked in was the ability to carry the ball further than he normally would have. There is a good chance that some of those homeruns would have been long fly outs without the aid of roids.

That doesn't change the fact that stars of the old days were still on enhancements. Yeah Bonds was on more roids under better training but Bonds hit 755 at 9,800 at bats. At 10,000 at bats Aaron had about 590 HRs.


As for pitchers going full games I think that has to do with a lot of factors that could be for that; improper steroid use tearing down muscles, new strategies keepng the pitchers fresh, better bull pens, etc. The average pitch speed is still higher across the board and these days worse athletes are getting intio baseball. Way back when the top athletes all went to the MLB. It was THE league. These days it's nothing compared to the NFL. And basketball has taken up a lot of the young black athletes.

[Styles1]

first off.... stars of old being on roids is a huge assumption on your part. At this point it's only something that you can speculate about. I am not saying that you are wrong, but you can't say that you are completely right either.

As far as the average speed pitch being a higher average... so far all we have is your word to go on that. If you can show me something then I will happily agree.