Bonds, A-Rod and Clemens......

[S P I C E]

If I had a Hall of Fame vote I would still vote these 3 in, lets discuss.

I think it's obvious that Clemens was already Hall worthy before he used in 1997 and Bonds was already Hall worthy before he used in 2000.  As far as Arod there is a good chance he has been juicing for a majority of his career or maybe he is telling the truth and its only been for 3 or 4 years, regardless I still say Arod is a hall of famer also like Bonds and Clemens if I have a vote.

Raffy is the tough one but I would say NO, I would also say no to Mcgwire & Sosa.

[herpes]

Clemans probably would of made but he wouldn't of been a first ballot HOF'er b/c before 97 he looked like he was coming down to the end of his career so there is was a good chance he wouldn't have reached some of the guaranteed milestones to make the hall.  He would of eventually got in though.  I vote no b/c of the black eye he has left the game.  And this makes Met fans feel better b/c for years we were saying him throwing the bat at Piazza was roid rage and we were laughed at.

Bonds was a first ballot HOF'er before 2000 and he probably would of been a top 15-20 player of all time.  But his ego got in the way and he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa.  Here was one player that didn't need steroids at all but took them so he could break baseballs most sacred records.  If I had a vote it would No and I hope the writers feel the same way.  IMO he is the biggest disgrace in this games history b/c unlike other players he didn't need to juice up, he was already a baseball god but his ego wanted more.

Arod even if he just took it those 3 years it is too hard to say if he was telling the truth, so he gets a no.  And IMO if he played for any other team than the Yanks best believe MLB would be looking for a way to ban him for life so he couldn't further disgrace the game.

McGwire is an easy No.  If you look at his career he wasn't good baseball player he just hit HR's.  He never hit for average, couldn't run, and couldn't field.  Without steroids he is at best another Dave Kingman.  But with steroids you find out even his HR's aren't real so he is a very easy no.

Sosa is an easy No.  Truth be told if he stayed clean he would of had a better chance of making the hall.  People forget that before the juice he was just about a 5 tool player.  He could hit for power, run, field, and throw.  He had two 30-30 seasons under his belt, he was a good all around player.  Even though he had a low OBP but for a clean up hitter OBP wasn't really made a big deal until the late 90's.

Rafael Palmeiro is another easy no, probably the easiest no of all.  He was a powerless bean poll w/o steroids.

I vote no for all these guys, and I would vote No for any future HOF'ers that turned out they were juicing.  And if you get voted in and people think you were clean and it turns out you did juice you are taken out of the HOF.

[S P I C E]

^^Nice post Fits.

You do make some great points.  About Raffy I would say no for sure, it's just hard to overlook 500HR and 3,000 hits but yeah he wouldn't of come close to these stats if he wasn't already juiced.

I also agree that ARod is getting off the hook so easily, Bonds got it and is getting it a million times worse then ARod, I do agree with what you said about Bonds, he only has himself to blame.  It is sad because Barry should of stayed clean and he still would of been one of the best ever and he would be looking like the good guy now but you are right, instead he juiced when he turned 37 or 38 to continue playing at a great level, its hard to fathom I agree, Bonds is great and clean all the way until he is 37 or 38 and then he decides to juice, obviously a terrible decision.

I dont think that any of these guys will ever get voted in and although I said I would only vote these 3 guys in, I can definitely see where you are coming from.

[Chamillitary Click]

If I had a Hall of Fame vote I would still vote these 3 in, lets discuss.

I think it's obvious that Clemens was already Hall worthy before he used in 1997 and Bonds was already Hall worthy before he used in 2000.  As far as Arod there is a good chance he has been juicing for a majority of his career or maybe he is telling the truth and its only been for 3 or 4 years, regardless I still say Arod is a hall of famer also like Bonds and Clemens if I have a vote.

Raffy is the tough one but I would say NO, I would also say no to Mcgwire & Sosa.

co-sign.

[Rick McCrank]

just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment

even if some of them are worthy

I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them

but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them

[Chamillitary Click]

just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment

even if some of them are worthy

I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them

but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them

you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.

[The Big Bad Ass]

I say fuck all of them. I don't care what thier career looked like before they got CAUGHT. They all cast a dark shadow on one of the greatest sports of all time. They cheated to make thier career look better, while they caused pitchers and batters respectivley look worse. I only respect the peeps who did it legit thier whole career.

[herpes]

just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment

even if some of them are worthy

I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them

but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them

you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.

Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF.  And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.

[M Dogg™]

Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.

[herpes]

Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.

Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm.  I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.

[Chamillitary Click]

na Sosa had too much cheating controversy around him.

first it was the corked bat & now roids, i doubt they will vote him in.

but i always loved Sammy & FUCK NO he wasnt no average player!

just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment

even if some of them are worthy

I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them

but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them

you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.

Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF.  And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.

500 homeruns is like an automatic lock for Cooperstown.

even if they take away the Texas hrs, he'll finish with 500+.

but we have to get the bottom of the story before we decide what his future for the HOF is.

[S P I C E]

Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.

Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm.  I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.

Yeah I agree w/ Fits, in early and mid 90's Sosa was far from a great player but he was also far from average.  Yeah he never should get in though, caught with a corked bat and we all know he was juiced also.

[herpes]

na Sosa had too much cheating controversy around him.

first it was the corked bat & now roids, i doubt they will vote him in.

but i always loved Sammy & FUCK NO he wasnt no average player!

just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment

even if some of them are worthy

I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them

but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them

you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.

Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF.  And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.

500 homeruns is like an automatic lock for Cooperstown.

even if they take away the Texas hrs, he'll finish with 500+.

but we have to get the bottom of the story before we decide what his future for the HOF is.

The problem is you don't know if he was lying.  That three year spike he had in Texas just could of been a convenient excuse for him to hide further PED use.  Arod can hit 1000 home runs when all is said and done and he still won't get in.  And it doesn't help his case that no one involved with baseball (players, writers, fans) respects him.  That will hurt him when it's time for the writers to vote.

[J.D. Wykid, Esq.]

id vote NO to ANY player who used roids.  ANY player.

[eS El Duque]

honestly...these guys should be allowed in. (i've changed my attitude).

Bud Selig fucked the MLB.

Unless they release that list of 103 players who tested positive..then everyone is guilty should not be allowed in aswell. That goes FOR ANYONE from 90's. ANYONE.

If I was A Rod. I would be asking for that list of players who tested positive LOL. Everyone should fall with him