John Barry just said...

[Styles1]

all of this is just speculation.... there is no real data to base any of this off of. people will debate who's the greatest in any sport and there will always be a debate because there is no real cut winner. You may "think" there is but that's just your opinion. But you will always find someone out there that disagrees with your opinion.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Kobe has a long way to go before he retires. Let's continue this debate in about 7 to 8 years. 

no doubt, but here's my thing...

let's say in a year or so this Laker squad breaks up & Kobe never wins another ring, but continues to put up the same stats (i mean look at the Celtics, shit happens).

so he never wins another ring, but you people will still stay debating that he is the best & shit.

so basically MJ is in a lose-lose situation for this debate, regardless of when it takes place.

Its simply not going to happen. In major sports in the US, there are basically 3 All time greats, where there is almost no debate about it. Jordan, Ali, and Tiger Woods. Jordan was crowned the greatest ever during his career. And at that time, there was very little debate. Shit wasnt it Magic that said "theres Michael Jordan, and then there's the rest of us"?  With Tiger, its pretty clear he will go down as the greatest golfer ever...barring some horrible accident where he can never play golf again.  Ali is difficult to guage because none of us were around at that time to truly get what the perception of him was during his career. Not to mention, there was so much political bullshit that lead to a lot of white America being very anti-Ali.  But Kobe would have to pull off something miraculous to pass Jordan as the all time great. As I said, many dont even consider him a top 10 yet, but consider Shaq and Duncan in the top 10.  So how people (Laker fans) try to push for Kobe> Jordan is fucking confusing lol. 

I'd say the only two where most consider a single player as the best ever with out any real debate is Jordan and Ruth. Tiger hasn't passed Nicklaus yet and even if he does there'd still be a debate unless he slaughters the record. Tennis is pretty open Football doesn't really have . Boxing will get as money Louis or Marciano votes as it would Ali votes. Football's got no one because each position is so very different. Soccer has Pele or Maradonna.

You could be right about Ali, but I would bet at least 80% of polls would show people picking Ali as the greatest. Ruth has been up for debate for a long time lol.  There is DEFINETELY no clearcut greatest in baseball, or football. Jordan is the clearcut greatest in Basketball obviously. The reason I say Tiger, is because he is in the same boat Jordan was in the middle of his career. He didnt have all the records or even all 6 championships, but everyone already knew he was going to go down as the all time great. Tiger hasn't past Nicklaus yet, but like i said...barring some unforeseen injury that ends his career, he will easily pass Nicklaus.

Debated with who? Ruth is still all these years later the clear cut greatest Baseball has ever seen. 342 BA, a fucking 690 slugging, 714 HRs with only 8400 ABs (that's 3000 less at bats than Aaron), and he was a winning World Series pitcher who at a high recorded 24 wins with 2 era and 35 complete games. Who the fuck even comes close to that in the MLB? Ruth is more clear cut than Jordan will ever be because we're still talking about him almost 100 year after he joined the majors. I'd like to see where Bonds stacks up in 60 years, or Aaron in the next 50. Ruth is the King of Baseball unless some guy comes along and wins 30 games as a pitcher with a perect game to boot and then hits 80 HRs.


"80% of polls would show people picking Ali" from with in boxing? No way. Joe Louis may even beat him out. From the mainstream fan Mike Tyson may get just as many votes in polls were done today.

wait shallow do you think tiger is the best athlete? (jus wonderin)

I refuse to call anyone the best athlete when their sport requires very little athleticism. He's definitely the best Golfer in his era and it's not even close but best athlete? No chance in hell. Give Pete Sampras or Steve Yzerman two years of training in Golf and I bet they can learn how to save for par against Tiger. Give Tiger Woods 5 years of training and let him go one on one with Sampras or last on the ice with Stevie Y. It'd be a complete joke.

Like I said, ive heard PLENTY of debate on greatest Baseball player of all time. Typically no one from our era is included in the conversation. But a player say, like Willie Mays definetely is. Babe Ruth is the greatest figure ever in baseball.  His popularity in the sport pushes him above anyone. But skillwise Mays was ridiculous (best all around player ever), and you cant expect an African-American player who played during the middle of the century to be able to surpass Ruths popularity. The media and the American public would never have allowed it.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

it jus dont make sense to me that they say tiger is the best athlete (they even made it clear best athlete in the world) when the sport in which he plays in has nuthin on b-ball, football, baseball or even nhl
now i know its jus what they sayin and its only their input but damn best athlete ever=tiger?
its like they gettin paid to bring up tigers name in this category

[Shallow]

Kobe has a long way to go before he retires. Let's continue this debate in about 7 to 8 years. 

no doubt, but here's my thing...

let's say in a year or so this Laker squad breaks up & Kobe never wins another ring, but continues to put up the same stats (i mean look at the Celtics, shit happens).

so he never wins another ring, but you people will still stay debating that he is the best & shit.

so basically MJ is in a lose-lose situation for this debate, regardless of when it takes place.

Its simply not going to happen. In major sports in the US, there are basically 3 All time greats, where there is almost no debate about it. Jordan, Ali, and Tiger Woods. Jordan was crowned the greatest ever during his career. And at that time, there was very little debate. Shit wasnt it Magic that said "theres Michael Jordan, and then there's the rest of us"?  With Tiger, its pretty clear he will go down as the greatest golfer ever...barring some horrible accident where he can never play golf again.  Ali is difficult to guage because none of us were around at that time to truly get what the perception of him was during his career. Not to mention, there was so much political bullshit that lead to a lot of white America being very anti-Ali.  But Kobe would have to pull off something miraculous to pass Jordan as the all time great. As I said, many dont even consider him a top 10 yet, but consider Shaq and Duncan in the top 10.  So how people (Laker fans) try to push for Kobe> Jordan is fucking confusing lol. 

I'd say the only two where most consider a single player as the best ever with out any real debate is Jordan and Ruth. Tiger hasn't passed Nicklaus yet and even if he does there'd still be a debate unless he slaughters the record. Tennis is pretty open Football doesn't really have . Boxing will get as money Louis or Marciano votes as it would Ali votes. Football's got no one because each position is so very different. Soccer has Pele or Maradonna.

You could be right about Ali, but I would bet at least 80% of polls would show people picking Ali as the greatest. Ruth has been up for debate for a long time lol.  There is DEFINETELY no clearcut greatest in baseball, or football. Jordan is the clearcut greatest in Basketball obviously. The reason I say Tiger, is because he is in the same boat Jordan was in the middle of his career. He didnt have all the records or even all 6 championships, but everyone already knew he was going to go down as the all time great. Tiger hasn't past Nicklaus yet, but like i said...barring some unforeseen injury that ends his career, he will easily pass Nicklaus.

Debated with who? Ruth is still all these years later the clear cut greatest Baseball has ever seen. 342 BA, a fucking 690 slugging, 714 HRs with only 8400 ABs (that's 3000 less at bats than Aaron), and he was a winning World Series pitcher who at a high recorded 24 wins with 2 era and 35 complete games. Who the fuck even comes close to that in the MLB? Ruth is more clear cut than Jordan will ever be because we're still talking about him almost 100 year after he joined the majors. I'd like to see where Bonds stacks up in 60 years, or Aaron in the next 50. Ruth is the King of Baseball unless some guy comes along and wins 30 games as a pitcher with a perect game to boot and then hits 80 HRs.


"80% of polls would show people picking Ali" from with in boxing? No way. Joe Louis may even beat him out. From the mainstream fan Mike Tyson may get just as many votes in polls were done today.

wait shallow do you think tiger is the best athlete? (jus wonderin)

I refuse to call anyone the best athlete when their sport requires very little athleticism. He's definitely the best Golfer in his era and it's not even close but best athlete? No chance in hell. Give Pete Sampras or Steve Yzerman two years of training in Golf and I bet they can learn how to save for par against Tiger. Give Tiger Woods 5 years of training and let him go one on one with Sampras or last on the ice with Stevie Y. It'd be a complete joke.

Like I said, ive heard PLENTY of debate on greatest Baseball player of all time. Typically no one from our era is included in the conversation. But a player say, like Willie Mays definetely is. Babe Ruth is the greatest figure ever in baseball.  His popularity in the sport pushes him above anyone. But skillwise Mays was ridiculous (best all around player ever), and you cant expect an African-American player who played during the middle of the century to be able to surpass Ruths popularity. The media and the American public would never have allowed it.

Fuck popularity. Mays never had the numbers. He simply wsn't a better hitter, and where he passes Bave in baserunning and fielding he doesn't even come close in pitching. I don't think you understand what a big deal it is that Babe was the calibre of pitcher that he was. He had two years that would have given him CY Young awarsd in today's game. In 1918 he had 13 wins as a pitcher and lead the league in HRs batting a 300. In his two full years asa pitcher he had a 1.75 era and a and 2.01 ERA. Roger Celems only pitched under 2.0 twice in his long career and never had anything lower at pace with 1.75. Clemens has also never matched Babe's 9 shut out games. Nolan Ryan only did it once.

You put babe Ruth one on one with Willie Mays and Ruth would destroy him.

The only other guy in the conversation is Ty Cobb, but he was such an asshole of a human being history likes to forget about him. Just look at the numbers and see how much better Ruth was than Mays. You can argue Magic over Jordan a lot easier than you can argue Mays over Ruth.

[Shallow]

it jus dont make sense to me that they say tiger is the best athlete (they even made it clear best athlete in the world) when the sport in which he plays in has nuthin on b-ball, football, baseball or even nhl
now i know its jus what they sayin and its only their input but damn best athlete ever=tiger?
its like they gettin paid to bring up tigers name in this category

Why "even NHL"? You say that like it's less than the others in terms of athletics. It's harder to play the NHL playoffs straight through than it is in any other sport.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

haha nah i was jus thinkin bout that nhl is a underrated sport altho im jus startin to watch it more than i would (i meant and even nhl as in yeah even the nhl who many dont talk about but thats a hard sport)
aite golf is a one-man team sport or whatever you want to call it vs football, b-ball, nhl all havin team members etc...but still tiger woods best athlete ever?
nah nice to know their input but that jus aint right lol

it jus dont make sense to me that they say tiger is the best athlete (they even made it clear best athlete in the world) when the sport in which he plays in has nuthin on b-ball, football, baseball or even nhl
now i know its jus what they sayin and its only their input but damn best athlete ever=tiger?
its like they gettin paid to bring up tigers name in this category

Why "even NHL"? You say that like it's less than the others in terms of athletics. It's harder to play the NHL playoffs straight through than it is in any other sport.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

it jus dont make sense to me that they say tiger is the best athlete (they even made it clear best athlete in the world) when the sport in which he plays in has nuthin on b-ball, football, baseball or even nhl
now i know its jus what they sayin and its only their input but damn best athlete ever=tiger?
its like they gettin paid to bring up tigers name in this category

yeah its hard to say Tiger is the best athlete.  Golf itself isnt an athletic sport, however Tiger is probably more athletic then 90% of MLB 

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Kobe has a long way to go before he retires. Let's continue this debate in about 7 to 8 years. 

no doubt, but here's my thing...

let's say in a year or so this Laker squad breaks up & Kobe never wins another ring, but continues to put up the same stats (i mean look at the Celtics, shit happens).

so he never wins another ring, but you people will still stay debating that he is the best & shit.

so basically MJ is in a lose-lose situation for this debate, regardless of when it takes place.

Its simply not going to happen. In major sports in the US, there are basically 3 All time greats, where there is almost no debate about it. Jordan, Ali, and Tiger Woods. Jordan was crowned the greatest ever during his career. And at that time, there was very little debate. Shit wasnt it Magic that said "theres Michael Jordan, and then there's the rest of us"?  With Tiger, its pretty clear he will go down as the greatest golfer ever...barring some horrible accident where he can never play golf again.  Ali is difficult to guage because none of us were around at that time to truly get what the perception of him was during his career. Not to mention, there was so much political bullshit that lead to a lot of white America being very anti-Ali.  But Kobe would have to pull off something miraculous to pass Jordan as the all time great. As I said, many dont even consider him a top 10 yet, but consider Shaq and Duncan in the top 10.  So how people (Laker fans) try to push for Kobe> Jordan is fucking confusing lol. 

I'd say the only two where most consider a single player as the best ever with out any real debate is Jordan and Ruth. Tiger hasn't passed Nicklaus yet and even if he does there'd still be a debate unless he slaughters the record. Tennis is pretty open Football doesn't really have . Boxing will get as money Louis or Marciano votes as it would Ali votes. Football's got no one because each position is so very different. Soccer has Pele or Maradonna.

You could be right about Ali, but I would bet at least 80% of polls would show people picking Ali as the greatest. Ruth has been up for debate for a long time lol.  There is DEFINETELY no clearcut greatest in baseball, or football. Jordan is the clearcut greatest in Basketball obviously. The reason I say Tiger, is because he is in the same boat Jordan was in the middle of his career. He didnt have all the records or even all 6 championships, but everyone already knew he was going to go down as the all time great. Tiger hasn't past Nicklaus yet, but like i said...barring some unforeseen injury that ends his career, he will easily pass Nicklaus.

Debated with who? Ruth is still all these years later the clear cut greatest Baseball has ever seen. 342 BA, a fucking 690 slugging, 714 HRs with only 8400 ABs (that's 3000 less at bats than Aaron), and he was a winning World Series pitcher who at a high recorded 24 wins with 2 era and 35 complete games. Who the fuck even comes close to that in the MLB? Ruth is more clear cut than Jordan will ever be because we're still talking about him almost 100 year after he joined the majors. I'd like to see where Bonds stacks up in 60 years, or Aaron in the next 50. Ruth is the King of Baseball unless some guy comes along and wins 30 games as a pitcher with a perect game to boot and then hits 80 HRs.


"80% of polls would show people picking Ali" from with in boxing? No way. Joe Louis may even beat him out. From the mainstream fan Mike Tyson may get just as many votes in polls were done today.

wait shallow do you think tiger is the best athlete? (jus wonderin)

I refuse to call anyone the best athlete when their sport requires very little athleticism. He's definitely the best Golfer in his era and it's not even close but best athlete? No chance in hell. Give Pete Sampras or Steve Yzerman two years of training in Golf and I bet they can learn how to save for par against Tiger. Give Tiger Woods 5 years of training and let him go one on one with Sampras or last on the ice with Stevie Y. It'd be a complete joke.

Like I said, ive heard PLENTY of debate on greatest Baseball player of all time. Typically no one from our era is included in the conversation. But a player say, like Willie Mays definetely is. Babe Ruth is the greatest figure ever in baseball.  His popularity in the sport pushes him above anyone. But skillwise Mays was ridiculous (best all around player ever), and you cant expect an African-American player who played during the middle of the century to be able to surpass Ruths popularity. The media and the American public would never have allowed it.

Fuck popularity. Mays never had the numbers. He simply wsn't a better hitter, and where he passes Bave in baserunning and fielding he doesn't even come close in pitching. I don't think you understand what a big deal it is that Babe was the calibre of pitcher that he was. He had two years that would have given him CY Young awarsd in today's game. In 1918 he had 13 wins as a pitcher and lead the league in HRs batting a 300. In his two full years asa pitcher he had a 1.75 era and a and 2.01 ERA. Roger Celems only pitched under 2.0 twice in his long career and never had anything lower at pace with 1.75. Clemens has also never matched Babe's 9 shut out games. Nolan Ryan only did it once.

You put babe Ruth one on one with Willie Mays and Ruth would destroy him.

The only other guy in the conversation is Ty Cobb, but he was such an asshole of a human being history likes to forget about him. Just look at the numbers and see how much better Ruth was than Mays. You can argue Magic over Jordan a lot easier than you can argue Mays over Ruth.

doesnt ESPN have Mays ranked as #2 all time? lol.  And NOBODY argues Magic > Jordan LOL!! Other then Laker fans.  Magic himself said MJ is on another level.

["THE" MoSav]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

LOL@ Bad coaching

LOL@confusing coaching with a Dungy vs Bellichick debate. Dungy is great, but career vs career the Pats had a much better line up of coaches (all coaches, not just head coaches) than the Colts. It's not even close. Moore wasa run of the mill OC in Pit for 7 years. Then more mediocrity with the Viks in the early 90s. He did ok with Detroit but Barry was there. And on D, you going to compare Ron Meeks to Crennel? Good luck. Just face it. That amazing team went 11-5 with that bitch Brady on the beach.

soon as you admit Mannings always had FAR SUPERIOR TALENT ON OFFENSE AROUND HIM..One year Brady had any talent he threw 50 and 5..LOL..MANNNING WOULD NEVER DO THAT

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

yeah to each is own but jordan>>>woods, and magic
jordan is in a league of his own and not many can get on his level

[Shallow]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

LOL@ Bad coaching

LOL@confusing coaching with a Dungy vs Bellichick debate. Dungy is great, but career vs career the Pats had a much better line up of coaches (all coaches, not just head coaches) than the Colts. It's not even close. Moore wasa run of the mill OC in Pit for 7 years. Then more mediocrity with the Viks in the early 90s. He did ok with Detroit but Barry was there. And on D, you going to compare Ron Meeks to Crennel? Good luck. Just face it. That amazing team went 11-5 with that bitch Brady on the beach.

soon as you admit Mannings always had FAR SUPERIOR TALENT ON OFFENSE AROUND HIM..One year Brady had any talent he threw 50 and 5..LOL..MANNNING WOULD NEVER DO THAT

Who has the highest single season QB rating of all time?

Who won his third MVP with a rotating o-line and a beat up nobody wants him number 1 WR?

And who has two OCs so praised for what they've done they both end up with head coaching jobs?

Who went down for a season and had the back-up go 11-5?



.:DaYg0sTyLz:.

Fuck ESPN they're the same fags that say Tiger is the best athlete. They also put Bonds at number 1 didn't they. They can list what ever numbers they want, but no one will ever be able to win an argument saying Mays was better than Ruth. Show me why you'd rather have Mays in his prime than Ruth. A 1919 or 1920 Ruth can be your ace and your clean up hitter in the same game. How do you beat that?


Imagine there was a starting QB inthe NFL that was also be your middle linebacker, averaged 25 to 30 TDs a season with 4000 yards as QB, and record 10 to 12 sackes a year with 5 0r 6 INTs, and 5 or 6 forced fumbles and recoveries. Would there be any doubt that he's the MVP?

That's Ruth in his prime. If the MLB allowed more than one MVP a player during the 20s Ruth would have had 7 or 8.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

The whole greatest argument is great, you know why.... 'cause in this boards opinion means SHIT! Barbershops, water coolers, internet threads. Fans can have this conversation, it'll take up time and at the end of the day, you can't prove shit. Ali vs Tyson, Kobe vs. MJ, Nolan Ryan vs. Babe Ruth, better coach Red or Phil, Dr. J in a dunk off with Dominic Wilkins, Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, '80's 49ers driving last minute in the 70's Steelers for the win, Tiger vs Nicklaus. This are never going to happen, but they bring debate, people want to have an opinion, and fans will argue with a passion for their team, their fighter. NIK will argue for the Gold and Forum Blue, Hack will defend his Yankees, I will go with Ali no matter what, it's just what it is. And it can be a message board, barbershop or water coolers at work (I don't have a water cooler... haha) but this is what fans do.

I can get caught up in it too but in the end I never take it too seriously. I honestly have no clue how Rocky Marciano would if plucked out of his time and put in to today's boxing scene. I don't know who'd had more majors if Jack and Tiger played at the same time. Or what kind of player MJ would have been in 1965.

The problem I have is when people outside the venue of basic bullshitting take their opinions home with them and actually believe in them as fact. Don't know why it bothers me. It just does.

thats a lie. You'll argue for Manning over Brady till the death...

Of course I will because they play at the same time. I never said I don't take debating sports too seriously. I take it very seriously. I just don't take cross-era debates too seriously. Like Manning vs Montana. Different eras different environments, and different groundwork to build off of. I think Manning is head and shoulders above Brady because their careers are parallel with each other and Manning showed me twice the talent with half the team (defense, coaches, o-line etc.). I don't think The Colts would have gone 5-11 with out Manning this year, much less 11-5. Why'd you have to go and get me started? If you really want to go through ths again just start another thread. I don't want to pollute this one.

LOL@ Bad coaching

LOL@confusing coaching with a Dungy vs Bellichick debate. Dungy is great, but career vs career the Pats had a much better line up of coaches (all coaches, not just head coaches) than the Colts. It's not even close. Moore wasa run of the mill OC in Pit for 7 years. Then more mediocrity with the Viks in the early 90s. He did ok with Detroit but Barry was there. And on D, you going to compare Ron Meeks to Crennel? Good luck. Just face it. That amazing team went 11-5 with that bitch Brady on the beach.

soon as you admit Mannings always had FAR SUPERIOR TALENT ON OFFENSE AROUND HIM..One year Brady had any talent he threw 50 and 5..LOL..MANNNING WOULD NEVER DO THAT

Who has the highest single season QB rating of all time?

Who won his third MVP with a rotating o-line and a beat up nobody wants him number 1 WR?

And who has two OCs so praised for what they've done they both end up with head coaching jobs?

Who went down for a season and had the back-up go 11-5?



.:DaYg0sTyLz:.

Fuck ESPN they're the same fags that say Tiger is the best athlete. They also put Bonds at number 1 didn't they. They can list what ever numbers they want, but no one will ever be able to win an argument saying Mays was better than Ruth. Show me why you'd rather have Mays in his prime than Ruth. A 1919 or 1920 Ruth can be your ace and your clean up hitter in the same game. How do you beat that?


Imagine there was a starting QB inthe NFL that was also be your middle linebacker, averaged 25 to 30 TDs a season with 4000 yards as QB, and record 10 to 12 sackes a year with 5 0r 6 INTs, and 5 or 6 forced fumbles and recoveries. Would there be any doubt that he's the MVP?

That's Ruth in his prime. If the MLB allowed more than one MVP a player during the 20s Ruth would have had 7 or 8.

I thought ESPN had Ruth at #1?  My point was that arguing whether #2 is better then #1 is not that far-fetched of an argument, in baseball.  Anyways, this is just back and forth and more then likely not going anywhere. All I know is Ive seen a ton of arguments against Ruth being the best ever, and hardly any against Jordan lol.  Even the fact that greats transcend eras, and a lot of people dont believe Ruth could play today. Jordan can, and a lot of people think Mays could as well. Anyways, fuckit it.  Like I said, this will go nowhere.

[Shallow]

Fair enough, but the NBA has only really been competitive since the 60s. Mays started almost 60s years after Ruth. You think in 60 years from now it'll still be Jordan bar none? The fact that Ruth is still in the running, still known, still talked about. Anyone that thinks Ruth couldn't play today is a moron, and it's no different than saying 90% of today's stars couldn't play back then. Take away the streoids and meth pills, the strict workouts, personal trainers, updated sports medicine, and bring back the small gloves, shitty bats, shitty balls and allow pitchers to use spit and slippery substances to make the balls curve. You think Barry Bonds would even have 500 HRs in that environment, because I'm not sure myself.

You put the raw talent of Babe Ruth and add all the modern tricks of the trade and you'd have the best player in baseball today. Give the NBA 60 more years to grow and we'll see if MJ is still God.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Kobe has a long way to go before he retires. Let's continue this debate in about 7 to 8 years. 

no doubt, but here's my thing...

let's say in a year or so this Laker squad breaks up & Kobe never wins another ring, but continues to put up the same stats (i mean look at the Celtics, shit happens).

so he never wins another ring, but you people will still stay debating that he is the best & shit.

so basically MJ is in a lose-lose situation for this debate, regardless of when it takes place.

Its simply not going to happen. In major sports in the US, there are basically 3 All time greats, where there is almost no debate about it. Jordan, Ali, and Tiger Woods. Jordan was crowned the greatest ever during his career. And at that time, there was very little debate. Shit wasnt it Magic that said "theres Michael Jordan, and then there's the rest of us"?  With Tiger, its pretty clear he will go down as the greatest golfer ever...barring some horrible accident where he can never play golf again.  Ali is difficult to guage because none of us were around at that time to truly get what the perception of him was during his career. Not to mention, there was so much political bullshit that lead to a lot of white America being very anti-Ali.  But Kobe would have to pull off something miraculous to pass Jordan as the all time great. As I said, many dont even consider him a top 10 yet, but consider Shaq and Duncan in the top 10.  So how people (Laker fans) try to push for Kobe> Jordan is fucking confusing lol. 

I'd say the only two where most consider a single player as the best ever with out any real debate is Jordan and Ruth. Tiger hasn't passed Nicklaus yet and even if he does there'd still be a debate unless he slaughters the record. Tennis is pretty open Football doesn't really have . Boxing will get as money Louis or Marciano votes as it would Ali votes. Football's got no one because each position is so very different. Soccer has Pele or Maradonna.

You could be right about Ali, but I would bet at least 80% of polls would show people picking Ali as the greatest. Ruth has been up for debate for a long time lol.  There is DEFINETELY no clearcut greatest in baseball, or football. Jordan is the clearcut greatest in Basketball obviously. The reason I say Tiger, is because he is in the same boat Jordan was in the middle of his career. He didnt have all the records or even all 6 championships, but everyone already knew he was going to go down as the all time great. Tiger hasn't past Nicklaus yet, but like i said...barring some unforeseen injury that ends his career, he will easily pass Nicklaus.

Debated with who? Ruth is still all these years later the clear cut greatest Baseball has ever seen. 342 BA, a fucking 690 slugging, 714 HRs with only 8400 ABs (that's 3000 less at bats than Aaron), and he was a winning World Series pitcher who at a high recorded 24 wins with 2 era and 35 complete games. Who the fuck even comes close to that in the MLB? Ruth is more clear cut than Jordan will ever be because we're still talking about him almost 100 year after he joined the majors. I'd like to see where Bonds stacks up in 60 years, or Aaron in the next 50. Ruth is the King of Baseball unless some guy comes along and wins 30 games as a pitcher with a perect game to boot and then hits 80 HRs.


"80% of polls would show people picking Ali" from with in boxing? No way. Joe Louis may even beat him out. From the mainstream fan Mike Tyson may get just as many votes in polls were done today.

wait shallow do you think tiger is the best athlete? (jus wonderin)

I refuse to call anyone the best athlete when their sport requires very little athleticism. He's definitely the best Golfer in his era and it's not even close but best athlete? No chance in hell. Give Pete Sampras or Steve Yzerman two years of training in Golf and I bet they can learn how to save for par against Tiger. Give Tiger Woods 5 years of training and let him go one on one with Sampras or last on the ice with Stevie Y. It'd be a complete joke.

Like I said, ive heard PLENTY of debate on greatest Baseball player of all time. Typically no one from our era is included in the conversation. But a player say, like Willie Mays definetely is. Babe Ruth is the greatest figure ever in baseball.  His popularity in the sport pushes him above anyone. But skillwise Mays was ridiculous (best all around player ever), and you cant expect an African-American player who played during the middle of the century to be able to surpass Ruths popularity. The media and the American public would never have allowed it.

wow...notice how Daygo starts soundin like me when it works for his argument. "Babe Ruth was a bigger icon because of the media, but Mays was still better skillwise"...hmmmmmmm, sound familiar?....what a punk lol.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Kobe has a long way to go before he retires. Let's continue this debate in about 7 to 8 years. 

no doubt, but here's my thing...

let's say in a year or so this Laker squad breaks up & Kobe never wins another ring, but continues to put up the same stats (i mean look at the Celtics, shit happens).

so he never wins another ring, but you people will still stay debating that he is the best & shit.

so basically MJ is in a lose-lose situation for this debate, regardless of when it takes place.

Its simply not going to happen. In major sports in the US, there are basically 3 All time greats, where there is almost no debate about it. Jordan, Ali, and Tiger Woods. Jordan was crowned the greatest ever during his career. And at that time, there was very little debate. Shit wasnt it Magic that said "theres Michael Jordan, and then there's the rest of us"?  With Tiger, its pretty clear he will go down as the greatest golfer ever...barring some horrible accident where he can never play golf again.  Ali is difficult to guage because none of us were around at that time to truly get what the perception of him was during his career. Not to mention, there was so much political bullshit that lead to a lot of white America being very anti-Ali.  But Kobe would have to pull off something miraculous to pass Jordan as the all time great. As I said, many dont even consider him a top 10 yet, but consider Shaq and Duncan in the top 10.  So how people (Laker fans) try to push for Kobe> Jordan is fucking confusing lol. 

I'd say the only two where most consider a single player as the best ever with out any real debate is Jordan and Ruth. Tiger hasn't passed Nicklaus yet and even if he does there'd still be a debate unless he slaughters the record. Tennis is pretty open Football doesn't really have . Boxing will get as money Louis or Marciano votes as it would Ali votes. Football's got no one because each position is so very different. Soccer has Pele or Maradonna.

You could be right about Ali, but I would bet at least 80% of polls would show people picking Ali as the greatest. Ruth has been up for debate for a long time lol.  There is DEFINETELY no clearcut greatest in baseball, or football. Jordan is the clearcut greatest in Basketball obviously. The reason I say Tiger, is because he is in the same boat Jordan was in the middle of his career. He didnt have all the records or even all 6 championships, but everyone already knew he was going to go down as the all time great. Tiger hasn't past Nicklaus yet, but like i said...barring some unforeseen injury that ends his career, he will easily pass Nicklaus.

Debated with who? Ruth is still all these years later the clear cut greatest Baseball has ever seen. 342 BA, a fucking 690 slugging, 714 HRs with only 8400 ABs (that's 3000 less at bats than Aaron), and he was a winning World Series pitcher who at a high recorded 24 wins with 2 era and 35 complete games. Who the fuck even comes close to that in the MLB? Ruth is more clear cut than Jordan will ever be because we're still talking about him almost 100 year after he joined the majors. I'd like to see where Bonds stacks up in 60 years, or Aaron in the next 50. Ruth is the King of Baseball unless some guy comes along and wins 30 games as a pitcher with a perect game to boot and then hits 80 HRs.


"80% of polls would show people picking Ali" from with in boxing? No way. Joe Louis may even beat him out. From the mainstream fan Mike Tyson may get just as many votes in polls were done today.

wait shallow do you think tiger is the best athlete? (jus wonderin)

I refuse to call anyone the best athlete when their sport requires very little athleticism. He's definitely the best Golfer in his era and it's not even close but best athlete? No chance in hell. Give Pete Sampras or Steve Yzerman two years of training in Golf and I bet they can learn how to save for par against Tiger. Give Tiger Woods 5 years of training and let him go one on one with Sampras or last on the ice with Stevie Y. It'd be a complete joke.

Like I said, ive heard PLENTY of debate on greatest Baseball player of all time. Typically no one from our era is included in the conversation. But a player say, like Willie Mays definetely is. Babe Ruth is the greatest figure ever in baseball.  His popularity in the sport pushes him above anyone. But skillwise Mays was ridiculous (best all around player ever), and you cant expect an African-American player who played during the middle of the century to be able to surpass Ruths popularity. The media and the American public would never have allowed it.

Fuck popularity. Mays never had the numbers. He simply wsn't a better hitter, and where he passes Bave in baserunning and fielding he doesn't even come close in pitching. I don't think you understand what a big deal it is that Babe was the calibre of pitcher that he was. He had two years that would have given him CY Young awarsd in today's game. In 1918 he had 13 wins as a pitcher and lead the league in HRs batting a 300. In his two full years asa pitcher he had a 1.75 era and a and 2.01 ERA. Roger Celems only pitched under 2.0 twice in his long career and never had anything lower at pace with 1.75. Clemens has also never matched Babe's 9 shut out games. Nolan Ryan only did it once.

You put babe Ruth one on one with Willie Mays and Ruth would destroy him.

The only other guy in the conversation is Ty Cobb, but he was such an asshole of a human being history likes to forget about him. Just look at the numbers and see how much better Ruth was than Mays. You can argue Magic over Jordan a lot easier than you can argue Mays over Ruth.

doesnt ESPN have Mays ranked as #2 all time? lol.  And NOBODY argues Magic > Jordan LOL!! Other then Laker fans.  Magic himself said MJ is on another level.

LOLLL...riiiightttt. thats why many still consider Magic the GOAT? even Dennis Rodman said he thought Magic was better, and he played with MJ. man up.