This Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt album is WEAK... and this is what built his career?

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.

No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?  

Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.

So basically, you preffer mainstream production values to Jay's low-budget Reasonable Doubt. Fair enough. Personally I preffer lyrical content - similie, metaphor, wordplay, rhyme..

Wait, so No Way Out and Life After Death don't have lyrical content, similie, metaphor, wordplay, and rhyme?   Most of Puffy's lyrics were written by the likes of Biggie and Jadakiss, all he had to do was perform the shit and he had All-Star support on his tracks.

But let's take a song where Puffy handles all the verses.  Look at songs like "Pain",  "Senorita", "What You Gonna Do", "Do You Know"... he may not have written those tracks, but those are some great story telling tracks, you feel like you are watching a blockbuster movie, the emotion and attention to detail that was put into those tracks.  That shit is POETIC, CINEMATIC, TRAGIC, UPLIFTING.. all at once!!  

"Pain" -is like a damn soap opera style, with Puff about to die and give up when the ghost-like voice of B.I.G. appears with words and inspires him to move on, with the piano and dark accordion background sounds.  This track is actually personal to Puffy's life.  Like contemplating if it was all worth it for the fame and fortune only to see his man Big laying dead, with the bullet sound effects and thunderstorm effects you can visualize it all going down.  Some ill story-telling in this joint like a lot of the album.  So we aren't talking about just punch-lines that any emcee off the street can do, this album was full of mini-movie scripts.  (Along with Big's death I think he's also touching on one incident at an arena he sponsored where some tragic shit happened I can't remember it exactly)

"Senorita" is an ether-like fog of some dream-world with that dream girl you would do anything for, your nothing and not known to her but in your mind you'd give her the world, Jadakiss wrote that joint and it is one of the best tracks of it's kind ever made.  If you listen to the detail of that track, with the skit preceding it, the Spanish influence, the sound-effects in the background; you aren't talking about a regular rap song anymore you are talking about a mini-movie production!

"What You Gonna"- again a great story telling track, pondering life and death, being face to face the prospect of losing your life, and what thoughts might go through your head in that

Jay-Z couldn't make meaningful tracks like that if his fucking life depended on it.  All he can do is spit a metaphor about a fucking watch or something.

[Paul]

You come out with some shit infinite


Dead Presidents - Best song to come out of NY imo

[Sir Petey]

no way out was an epic album and imo has more replay value thru the years then reasonable doubt i dont view it as a puff solo i  view it as a bad boy compilation.

-pain
-is this the end
-young gs
-i love you baby
-victory
-do you know
-what cha gonna do

are all classics...flawless production and great ghostwriting lol (some by jay z)

reasonable doubt was dope, i had it before it came out in stores...but i didnt connect with it like i did no way out.

fuck it....they both classic.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

2pac dissed jay, infinite is a 2pac groupie

mystery solved

Then how do you explain the fact that I consider Life After Death and No Way Out to be 5 Mic Classics?

LMAO

[eazye]

I can agree with what Infinite says about No Way Out for the most part, but overall it's just a good album, same with Life After Death (which is nowhere near Ready To Die IMO)

But both albums are really inferior to Reasonable Doubt and that's not even debatable.RD is much more cohesive and Jay spits some true gems on Dead Presidents (both parts), D'Evils, Politics As Usual...and songs like Can I Live, Can't Knock The Hustle, Feelin' It are great joints, to name a few.And really, to me the weakest track is Brooklyn's Finest, I don't know why, I just usually skip it

D'Evils has such masterful wordplay that alone rivals the best tracks from No Way Out and Life After Death.And I'm not that much of a jay fan, his shit after RD is weak for the most part - I do listen to a good portion of his music after RD but , aside from a few songs on In My Lifetime, the only joint that reaches RD quality is Allure from black album.His music after RD is just cool with a few high moments

[Sir Petey]

thats crazy brooklyns finest is my least fav too on that album.


i think they are both 4 and a half star albums i just perfer the sound of puffs album, i partied to it more back in the days.

[jeanmiche777]

lmao, you're taking No Way Out or Life After Death over Reasonable Doubt? Credibility gone.

No Way Out and Life After Death shit all over this album.. you want proof?  

Listen to the Jay-Z joints on No Way Out and Life After Death, those tracks are FULLY PRODUCED, those tracks are like mutherfucking movies compared to that corny ass "Brooklyn's Finest" track Biggie and him probably did in the space of a half hour that landed on Reasonable Doubt.

So basically, you preffer mainstream production values to Jay's low-budget Reasonable Doubt. Fair enough. Personally I preffer lyrical content - similie, metaphor, wordplay, rhyme..

Wait, so No Way Out and Life After Death don't have lyrical content, similie, metaphor, wordplay, and rhyme?   Most of Puffy's lyrics were written by the likes of Biggie and Jadakiss, all he had to do was perform the shit and he had All-Star support on his tracks.

But let's take a song where Puffy handles all the verses.  Look at songs like "Pain",  "Senorita", "What You Gonna Do", "Do You Know"... he may not have written those tracks, but those are some great story telling tracks, you feel like you are watching a blockbuster movie, the emotion and attention to detail that was put into those tracks.  That shit is POETIC, CINEMATIC, TRAGIC, UPLIFTING.. all at once!!  

"Pain" -is like a damn soap opera style, with Puff about to die and give up when the ghost-like voice of B.I.G. appears with words and inspires him to move on, with the piano and dark accordion background sounds.  This track is actually personal to Puffy's life.  Like contemplating if it was all worth it for the fame and fortune only to see his man Big laying dead, with the bullet sound effects and thunderstorm effects you can visualize it all going down.  Some ill story-telling in this joint like a lot of the album.  So we aren't talking about just punch-lines that any emcee off the street can do, this album was full of mini-movie scripts.  (Along with Big's death I think he's also touching on one incident at an arena he sponsored where some tragic shit happened I can't remember it exactly)

"Senorita" is an ether-like fog of some dream-world with that dream girl you would do anything for, your nothing and not known to her but in your mind you'd give her the world, Jadakiss wrote that joint and it is one of the best tracks of it's kind ever made.  If you listen to the detail of that track, with the skit preceding it, the Spanish influence, the sound-effects in the background; you aren't talking about a regular rap song anymore you are talking about a mini-movie production!

"What You Gonna"- again a great story telling track, pondering life and death, being face to face the prospect of losing your life, and what thoughts might go through your head in that

Jay-Z couldn't make meaningful tracks like that if his fucking life depended on it.  All he can do is spit a metaphor about a fucking watch or something.

I don't think we listened to the same albums. Jay-Z's wordplay on reasonable doubt is very good and original. not only metaphors about a fucking watch or something. The beats are very dope. A well produced album that flows well. The ONLY track I'm not feeling is Ain't no nigga, mainly because the beat and the hook is weak. Can I Live, Dead Presidents, D'Evils... Those are classic hip hop tracks.

I don't give a fuck about P Diddy, just because he can produce good albums dosen't mean he made a better album than Jay-Z. You said it, his shit is ghost writed, he can't rap for his life. Jay-Z is writing his lyrics in his head, I mean, what are you trying to prove here? You don't like the album, that's ok, but you say that Diddy's album is better? Senorita is dope, just because of the production. The hook is laughable...

[Action!]

I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head.  When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper?  He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse.  It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper.  Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.

Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?

[Muhfukka]

I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996

but for real that cd wasnt that great

[D-Nice]

I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head.  When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper?  He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse.  It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper.  Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.

Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?

Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head.  When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper?  He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse.  It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper.  Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.

Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?

Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.

yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head.  When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper?  He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse.  It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper.  Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.

Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?

Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.

yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.

Pac wrote his lyrics down

[Muhfukka]

I don't buy that he writes lyrics in his head.  When he spits into a microphone and he records it ALL then what's the use of paper?  He can just rewind that shit and play it back and add another verse.  It's a rich man's version of using a pen an paper.  Once he has everything together he can go and spit the actual song properly.

Really, at the end of the day who doesn't write lyrics with their head?

Yeah but from what alot of producers in the studio are saying is that he is one take in the booth. I have sat in many studio sessions and not many artists can do that. It is not to say their verses do not end up being dope, but to step in a booth and only do one take on a verse that is album really is impressive for anyone.

yup, 98percent of all Jay-Z-music is one takes. kinda like 2pacs catalogue
i rememeber readin that Primo, is one of the few prducers that managed to get Jigga to do more than one take.

Pac wrote his lyrics down

they mean not rerecording a verse to try and getg it sounding better

[kuruptlon]

Yeah

Pretty bold statement, obviously just trying to get some response out of people.


No Way Out is a great album but in no way should it even be compared to RD. I mean No Way Out was a collaboration album, by no stretch of the imagination was it a puff solo joint.

As has been said before I don't even like Jay-Z I think he's incredibly overrated but there is no denying the shear genius that this album is. For a debut album the production is incredible. In fact every song that people have named in this thread is a pure gem. This album doesn't have too many missteps and if you think it does your simply misinformed.

JK to each his own.

This is a great album though.

[U.N.T.O.U.C.H.A.B.L.E.]

its a clazzic no doubt but nothing like makaveli 7th day theory, illmatic or even like ready to die....no way out dont belong in the same sentence, life after death is basically an all eyez on me imitation to me...& that's coming from a pac fan here...jay is one dimensional anyways..