Has Miguel Cabrera wrapped up the MVP award already?

[Hack Wilson - real]

trout doesn't even have more home runs than mark trumbo


and RBI is not a BS stat, Trout just isn't G enough to bat 3rd like Miggy

[MistaNova]

trout doesn't even have more home runs than mark trumbo

and RBI is not a BS stat, Trout just isn't G enough to bat 3rd like Miggy

RBI is a BS stat if you want to judge an individual player's performance on it. The only time RBI can be considered a legit stat is when you think of it as a team stat, nothing else. It doesn't show how good or bad a certain player is because any player, no matter how shitty, can get an RBI. Just look at the Astros, even they have players who have RBIs.

And the amount of HRs a hitter hits doesn't show he good he is either. If we were to judge players based on home run totals then Chris Davis would be the best player in all of baseball right now, and we all know who factual that is.

And yes Mike Trout is "G" enough to hit third in a good lineup. Just put 2 high OBP guys like Shin Soo Choo in front of him and let him drive those guys in. Some actual protection behind him won't hurt either.

[Hack Wilson - real]

trout doesn't even have more home runs than mark trumbo

and RBI is not a BS stat, Trout just isn't G enough to bat 3rd like Miggy

RBI is a BS stat if you want to judge an individual player's performance on it. The only time RBI can be considered a legit stat is when you think of it as a team stat, nothing else. It doesn't show how good or bad a certain player is because any player, no matter how shitty, can get an RBI. Just look at the Astros, even they have players who have RBIs.

And the amount of HRs a hitter hits doesn't show he good he is either. If we were to judge players based on home run totals then Chris Davis would be the best player in all of baseball right now, and we all know who factual that is.

And yes Mike Trout is "G" enough to hit third in a good lineup. Just put 2 high OBP guys like Shin Soo Choo in front of him and let him drive those guys in. Some actual protection behind him won't hurt either.

RBI says a lot about a guys value at knocking in runs


why do you think guys like Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman are worthless?  because the only RBI they get are from home runs. 

[MistaNova]

RBI says a lot about a guys value at knocking in runs

why do you think guys like Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman are worthless?  because the only RBI they get are from home runs. 

No it doesn't. It just shows that the player who got the RBI put at least 1 run on the board.
RBI is a team stat because it takes a team effort to earn a lot of them. I'll use the Reds again. The only reason Brandon Phillips has as many RBIs as he does is because he's got Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto, two very high OBP guys, batting before him and they're always on base. And just the other day the Reds tried having Phillips bat 2nd in their lineup and had Jay Bruce hit behind Votto. Lo and behold Phillips had zero RBIs to speak of while Bruce picked up at least 5 (I can't remember the exact number) in that game.

Bottom line, RBIs don't matter when it comes to judging players individually. They tell us absolutely nothing about how valuable they are to their team, just that they happened to make contact at the right time. If you think otherwise than you're too attached to all those "old-school baseball" cliches.
It's the 21st century, all those old stats like .AVG, RBIs, HRs, Wins, Losses, ERAs, SOs don't matter nowadays as they once did. There's all sorts of new stats now to help better determine how valuable a player is like babip, iso, so/bb ratio, those to show how valuable players are defensively like UZR and those to kind of show how valuable the player is the team like WAR.

Anyway, if you're looking for a stat that'll judge how good a player is in a "clutch" situation where the player could potentially get an RBI, there's this stat called .RISP (runners in scoring position) which measures a player's batting average with runners in scoring position. That's a lot more credible as an individual stat than RBI will ever be.

[Halu Sination]

Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.

Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.

[Hack Wilson - real]

Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.

Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.

miggy plays 3rd base, that's a lot tougher than playing any outfield spot

[AlerG]

RBI says a lot about a guys value at knocking in runs

why do you think guys like Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman are worthless?  because the only RBI they get are from home runs. 

No it doesn't. It just shows that the player who got the RBI put at least 1 run on the board.
RBI is a team stat because it takes a team effort to earn a lot of them. I'll use the Reds again. The only reason Brandon Phillips has as many RBIs as he does is because he's got Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto, two very high OBP guys, batting before him and they're always on base. And just the other day the Reds tried having Phillips bat 2nd in their lineup and had Jay Bruce hit behind Votto. Lo and behold Phillips had zero RBIs to speak of while Bruce picked up at least 5 (I can't remember the exact number) in that game.

Bottom line, RBIs don't matter when it comes to judging players individually. They tell us absolutely nothing about how valuable they are to their team, just that they happened to make contact at the right time. If you think otherwise than you're too attached to all those "old-school baseball" cliches.
It's the 21st century, all those old stats like .AVG, RBIs, HRs, Wins, Losses, ERAs, SOs don't matter nowadays as they once did. There's all sorts of new stats now to help better determine how valuable a player is like babip, iso, so/bb ratio, those to show how valuable players are defensively like UZR and those to kind of show how valuable the player is the team like WAR.

Anyway, if you're looking for a stat that'll judge how good a player is in a "clutch" situation where the player could potentially get an RBI, there's this stat called .RISP (runners in scoring position) which measures a player's batting average with runners in scoring position. That's a lot more credible as an individual stat than RBI will ever be.

Miggy all day. MVP. Go Tigers.

[Ghost Drebin]

Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.

Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.

miggy plays 3rd base, that's a lot tougher than playing any outfield spot

You are wrong so much in this thread it hurts.  RBI's are a byproduct of hits.  Trout has more hits, so the fact he has less RBI's is meaningless.  It is a team stat, not an individual stat.  They bat in different positions as well.  If you think that 3rd base is more important defensively than centerfield then you should go choke yourself. 

[Hack Wilson - real]

3rd base is more valuable...all of the infield is harder to play outside of 1st base



and Trout has ONE more hit in many more at-bats...that ain't shit


RBI's are important...you can't win without knocking runners in, can you?

[Ghost Drebin]

3rd base is more valuable...all of the infield is harder to play outside of 1st base



and Trout has ONE more hit in many more at-bats...that ain't shit


RBI's are important...you can't win without knocking runners in, can you?

You make my head hurt.  RBI's are not a measure of a batters performance.  A batter could bat leadoff get over 200 hits and have shit for RBI's because no one is on base, Ichiro is a great example.   Does that mean he is less of a hitter than a guy who may get 100 hits with people on 2nd and 3rd so they will have many more RBI's?  I mean do you really think that Trout has more runners on base batting lead off and second for the lowly Angels, than Cabrera does batting 4th for the Tigers??? They are NOT a valid stat for measuring individual performance, because they are influenced by outside variables, such as the quality of the players surrounding him.  Now I'm sure you are going to argue that counts for other stats too like HR's with no one protecting the player, but overall, RBI's are not used any longer as a yardstick of performance.

And it's common knowledge that A good quality centerfielder will get more outs per game than a good quality 3rd baseman.  More balls are hit to a wide range having centerfielder on average, thus more outs are produced.  You would not say a SS is less important than a 3rd baseman, and this is the same logic.

[Remedy360]

Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.

Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.

miggy plays 3rd base, that's a lot tougher than playing any outfield spot

You are wrong so much in this thread it hurts.  RBI's are a byproduct of hits.  Trout has more hits, so the fact he has less RBI's is meaningless.  It is a team stat, not an individual stat.  They bat in different positions as well.  If you think that 3rd base is more important defensively than centerfield then you should go choke yourself. 

hahahahaha

[Hack Wilson - real]

the hardest positions to play are shortstop and catcher.  then comes 2nd base, then 3rd.  then centerfield and the other 3 are all equal (maybe 1st is tougher because you see the ball the most).


centerfield used to be a lot tougher when the ballparks were 500 feet deep but now they are only 400-420 ish most places.  the reaction time playing 3rd is a lot tougher than anywhere in the outfield. 

[MistaNova]

RBI's are important...you can't win without knocking runners in, can you?

Again, RBIs are only important when it comes to evaluating TEAMS AS A WHOLE. You can make a case and say that "This team is good because all of it's players have combined for 1000+ RBIs" or something like that but you CAN'T say "this player is good because he's got 100 RBIs." You will be laughed at and ridiculed by anyone who has a clue about baseball.

And you brought up "worthless" Adam Dunn a while back, let's look at his career stats. He's had several 100 RBI seasons under his belt and has aprox 1,100 RBIs to his name. If RBIs are so important then Adam Dunn should be one of the top 10 players in the MLB.

And no, the three outfield spots are not equal in the least. As centerfielder your reactions are constantly tested as you're in charge of various actions. Such as deciding whether or not you're going to catch the ball yourself or let one of the other fielders get it. Plus in right field you need to have quick reflexes and have the ability to throw the ball as soon as the ball reaches your glove/hand, otherwise base runners in scoring position will always score on you and you will lose your job. Hack, you are underestimating how hard and important being an outfielder is. It's not like they're just standing around waiting for fly balls, they're just as important as infielders.

[Ghost Drebin]

the hardest positions to play are shortstop and catcher.  then comes 2nd base, then 3rd.  then centerfield and the other 3 are all equal (maybe 1st is tougher because you see the ball the most).


centerfield used to be a lot tougher when the ballparks were 500 feet deep but now they are only 400-420 ish most places.  the reaction time playing 3rd is a lot tougher than anywhere in the outfield. 

You need to make like fat joe and lean back with this argument. The more you try and rationalize your points, the more I realize that you lack anything beyond the basic knowledge of the game. Your original post was good. It's legit to argue about individual players and how they compare to each other. But you are now trying to argue about facts of the game. Just take the L and walk it off.

[Hack Wilson - real]

have you ever even played baseball before?  3rd base is a lot tougher to field than any outfield position. 



and back to the point of the thread...Trout isn't even a top 3 candidate because he hasn't played a meaningful game in 3-4 months