Suge Knight Reflects on 'Doggystyle' 20 Years Later

[bouli77]

so, are you saying that because you have not "stripes" in the game...no songs in the game, that, you can't possibly come into the business producing tracks? that's like saying, because one never had a rap song in the business, they can't rap. lots of people i know are making beats as we speak, no

i don't know who produced what. but, to say someone can't because their new to the music biz...dosent sit well imo. .

not what i said at all, i didn't deny daz's involvement in the making of doggystyle, i just don't believe he was the driving factor nor the main creative factor. that's a feat i doubt young daz would have been capable to pull off back then. as i said he was an understudy so he was developing his craft and learning from the best, which may explain why in 94 and 95 he was dropping heat.

[Okka]

How is "Suge hates Dre" a valid excuse. He hates Daz too. If anything he's pulling puppet strings to see if he can make Daz move.

After Dre left, he always been talkin' shit about him. He was the biggest producer in the world and he just said fuck it, he's tired of all the bullshit and he doesn't want nothin' to do with Suge Knight and Death Row anymore. You don't think that shit made Suge hate Dre? Suge is always talkin' shit about Dre when he gets a chance to.

How do you know if he hates Daz? He just squashed everything with Snoop, maybe he's cool with Daz now too.

[bouli77]

How is "Suge hates Dre" a valid excuse. He hates Daz too. If anything he's pulling puppet strings to see if he can make Daz move.

After Dre left, he always been talkin' shit about him. He was the biggest producer in the world and he just said fuck it, he's tired of all the bullshit and he doesn't want nothin' to do with Suge Knight and Death Row anymore. You don't think that shit made Suge hate Dre? Suge is always talkin' shit about Dre when he gets a chance to.

How do you know if he hates Daz? He just squashed everything with Snoop, maybe they cool too.

daz has never shown any sign of forgiveness towards Suge, i very much doubt they'll be cool again. and Daz has done way more against Suge than Snoop (hardcore disses, videos ridiculing him, stole reels, etc.) and I don't think Suge will ever forgive Daz for all that.

[Okka]

You never know.

[polepositon]

what are the stages of producing a track?

like, Mr. Theo said quik structures from beginning to end what does that consist of?

Thks.

[PhunkyDoob]

How come people in hip-hop still dont know the difference between producing & beat making though? I'm sure Suge is playing on that, knowingly.

Not saying i know how it went down but a producer is like a director. He puts everything together, final touches, adds stuff/removes stuff - especially since Dre was a DJ & good at mixing so he knew sound well. Doesnt mean he made every beat, just like a director doesnt write every script or make every movie from scratch. Or you can say that a producer is like a coach for a all-star team.

Dre isnt the only one who has done that. Many of our favorites have done that or do that regularely. Quincy Jones technically didnt make the beats for Thriller, but he was the producer. Watch the making of that album on Youtube.

Only in hip-hop did that definition change. There is a difference between beat making & producing.

[polepositon]

are you talking to me?

if so, that is why i am asking do everyone is clear on what is what.

i want to know from the Quik aspect. cuz i could give a fuck about dre. i dont even fuck with his beats like that. never have.

i just wanted clarification on what mr. theo said about quik. im interested.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

How do you know if he hates Daz? He just squashed everything with Snoop, maybe he's cool with Daz now too.

Snoop is far more level-headed than Daz, who ran his mouth way more.  And Suge not having any problems with Snoop anymore doesn't automatically squash all other beefs.

[UCC]

Once these guys stop working with Dre they never make beats anywhere near as good as Dre
makes and this is why:

1. He lets them use his setup of whichever session musicians and equipment he is using.
2. He has extreme quality control and throws out shitty beats and even "just ok" beats.
3. He knows how to combine the best beats with the best chorus and the best verses.
4. He mixes everything perfectly and spends ages picking out the best "sounds".

To break that down further:

1. Session musicians and Dre's setup
Dre's method is generally to make a ton of beats in a certain style, with certain sessions musicians.
Every so often they will get lucky and one will be amazing... that one they keep adding stuff to, different verses,
etc. until it is incredible.

When they were working with Dre, guys like Daz, Warren G, etc. had access to the same session musicians he used.
Now that they don't have access to those musicians, they can't really make beats of that standard anymore
(Daz has said that in interviews several times, that not being in a big studio with musicians, means he can't make beats on that level).

To Dre, it doesn't really matter who makes the beat... the more people you have making beats using the setup he has,
the more chance you have of "getting lucky" and stumbling on one that is good enough to "polish" and finish up properly.

2. Quality control
So Daz, Warren G, etc. are just making loads of beats... some are good, some are ok, some will be shitty.
And those guys, if they are in charge, will put ALL those beats on an album, so you will get an album with a
mixture of quality, because it's almost like they can't tell which are the good ones.

Dre picks out the ones that are the best and keeps those and throws away the shitty ones and even
the "just ok" ones. The beats for the tracks "Doggystyle" and "Poor Young Dave" are decent beats, but
they're just not good enough for Dre to include on the album.

3. Combining the best elements
When you hear stuff like "Every Single Day" and other outtakes, we know that Dre is using bits and pieces
of the verses from other songs they did and putting them on the best beats... he's using only the best choruses and verses
on the best beats...
While the co-producers when they're on their own will usually use a dope beat but with a wack chorus, or a wack verse,
or will have a dope verse on a wack beat... again, that's why their stuff sounds weaker when they stop working with Dre.

4. Perfect mix and sounds
Dre's mixing makes a great song sound fantastic... and it's not just the mix, he goes back and replaces
an average snare with some perfectly sampled and mixed snare, and gets things replayed over until they are
the best quality. The beat his co-producers make is sometimes just a sampled loop... Dre will get the musicians
to replay all the parts in the sample and then spend hours mixing them so that it sounds huge.


So when someone says, "oh, so-and-so made that beat" all it really means was that when they were churning
out loads of beats under Dre's system, that co-producer just happened to randomly make one of the ones
that was good enough to be taken to the next stage of the process...

It's like they just happened to make a dope piece of fried chicken, but they were using Colonel Saunders' recipe.
They can say, "hey, I made this piece of chicken, not Colonel Saunders," but that doesn't mean they
get to have their face on the front of the restaurant.

[jman91331]

Once these guys stop working with Dre they never make beats anywhere near as good as Dre
makes and this is why:

1. He lets them use his setup of whichever session musicians and equipment he is using.
2. He has extreme quality control and throws out shitty beats and even "just ok" beats.
3. He knows how to combine the best beats with the best chorus and the best verses.
4. He mixes everything perfectly and spends ages picking out the best "sounds".

To break that down further:

1. Session musicians and Dre's setup
Dre's method is generally to make a ton of beats in a certain style, with certain sessions musicians.
Every so often they will get lucky and one will be amazing... that one they keep adding stuff to, different verses,
etc. until it is incredible.

When they were working with Dre, guys like Daz, Warren G, etc. had access to the same session musicians he used.
Now that they don't have access to those musicians, they can't really make beats of that standard anymore
(Daz has said that in interviews several times, that not being in a big studio with musicians, means he can't make beats on that level).

To Dre, it doesn't really matter who makes the beat... the more people you have making beats using the setup he has,
the more chance you have of "getting lucky" and stumbling on one that is good enough to "polish" and finish up properly.

2. Quality control
So Daz, Warren G, etc. are just making loads of beats... some are good, some are ok, some will be shitty.
And those guys, if they are in charge, will put ALL those beats on an album, so you will get an album with a
mixture of quality, because it's almost like they can't tell which are the good ones.

Dre picks out the ones that are the best and keeps those and throws away the shitty ones and even
the "just ok" ones. The beats for the tracks "Doggystyle" and "Poor Young Dave" are decent beats, but
they're just not good enough for Dre to include on the album.

3. Combining the best elements
When you hear stuff like "Every Single Day" and other outtakes, we know that Dre is using bits and pieces
of the verses from other songs they did and putting them on the best beats... he's using only the best choruses and verses
on the best beats...
While the co-producers when they're on their own will usually use a dope beat but with a wack chorus, or a wack verse,
or will have a dope verse on a wack beat... again, that's why their stuff sounds weaker when they stop working with Dre.

4. Perfect mix and sounds
Dre's mixing makes a great song sound fantastic... and it's not just the mix, he goes back and replaces
an average snare with some perfectly sampled and mixed snare, and gets things replayed over until they are
the best quality. The beat his co-producers make is sometimes just a sampled loop... Dre will get the musicians
to replay all the parts in the sample and then spend hours mixing them so that it sounds huge.


So when someone says, "oh, so-and-so made that beat" all it really means was that when they were churning
out loads of beats under Dre's system, that co-producer just happened to randomly make one of the ones
that was good enough to be taken to the next stage of the process...

It's like they just happened to make a dope piece of fried chicken, but they were using Colonel Saunders' recipe.
They can say, "hey, I made this piece of chicken, not Colonel Saunders," but that doesn't mean they
get to have their face on the front of the restaurant.

Finally, someone that gets it.

[polepositon]

Look this mf coming in "finally someone gets it" shut up. All bent outta shape. You shoulda just contributed instead of sitting back waiting. Sounds like maybe u didnt know shit. Or, maybe you're like dre,, let someone else do it all then come in like, yea, i did that.

Thanks UCC. Hmm, that just sounds like someone who can't make a beat but can just add a dash of this and that.

But, this is only my opinion. Not trying to argue.

[jones5099]

MTV did a story on this also.... they mention the 2006 Dubcnn Snoop interview  

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1718171/suge-knight-snoop-dogg-doggystyle-producer-claims.jhtml


This isn't the first time that Dre's musical output on Doggystyle has come into question. In 2006, Snoop acknowledged that Daz and Dre's cousin made the beats for Doggystyle, but argued that producing a record means more than just making the beats.

"They didn't deserve the credit back then because they didn't do the work. They made beats, Dre produced that record," Snoop said in an interview with DubCNN.com. "I can make a beat, but I can't produce! I can make a beat, but I can't tell a n---a what to rap about, can I tell him when to come with the hook? Can you break the beat down? That's what producing is."

[polepositon]

Idg it. It just sounds like to me, if you make the beat what's so got damn hard about producing it?

I'm like

Man. Then Mfs should def know quik shits on dre!

[KrazySumwhat]

 I still find it amazing hearing Snoop praise coming from Suges mouth. The shaking at the kness comment i thought "here we go" but was surprised to hear some of that.
 Even though they made peace a while ago.
 has Dre ever been questioned about his production in an interview before?

[Sccit]

lol@daz produced doggystyle


daz had his share of input, but to say he produced it is pretty hilarious