(2004) - Eminem Mixes Up 2Pac

[TidyKris]

Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top

Im not sure if you totally understand my point.

If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that

Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.

I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat

Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years

Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used

Khayree a goat?? Really??

So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!

[Sccit]

Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top

Im not sure if you totally understand my point.

If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that

Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.

I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat

Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years

Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used

Khayree a goat?? Really??

So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!

yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....


btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.

[TidyKris]

Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top

Im not sure if you totally understand my point.

If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that

Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.

I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat

Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years

Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used

Khayree a goat?? Really??

So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!

yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....


btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.

Oh yeah ...i dont dispute what your saying here. But thats also what im trying to say.
Your average producer does the same thing over and over until they burn out and there are a hell of a lot of them.
The good ones ride a certain sound for a little whilst then change it up and progress

Its the "real" producers that can switch up their styles and can have long lasting careers as producers. Flash pan producers like Em are the
"here today and gone tomorrow" producers. They cant change their style so they dont last long...because really they are not good producers.

As for the Em tracks...its funny you should mention those tracks because i nearly wrote this in my last comment
about Em's productions having 2 or at a push maybe 3 different variations...the "Loose Yourself" beat and the "What I Am" beat.
All his beats are different takes on those two kind of sounds

Till i collapse sounds similar to loose yourself and renegade sounds similar to cleaning out my closet lol

[Sccit]

Bullshit, the goat producers, Quik, Dre, battlecat, timbaland, khayree, premo etc all have a signature sound that you can recognize them by off top

Im not sure if you totally understand my point.

If you dont know who Dre is and was given The Chronic to listen to, then 2001 then Compton you wouldnt think
they all sound the same and they were made by the same person. Dre has a certain sound for a whilst then changes it up and progresses and you
only have to listen to one track from each year he was around to see what i mean by that

Quik does the same as Dre. He has a lot of songs that dont sound like he has produced...he can change it up too. He uses a lot of real instruments so thats
why those in know may be able to recognise his sound but you dont listen to every Quik song and think they all sound
like other Quik songs.

I like battlecat but i wouldnt call him a goat

Timberland...ok yeah fair play he does has a signature sound you can instantly tell and has managed to keep it going for a long time.
Although his sound was only really huge for a few years

Same with Premo but thats mainly down to the scratching and samples used

Khayree a goat?? Really??

So yeah...the good producers can flip it up. They can produce stuff that sounds like them and stuff that sounds totally different.
The not so good ones cant and almost every song sounds the same!

yea, u talkin about 10 years in between albums....but early 90s dre beats all had a similarity. early 00s dre beats all had a similarity. eminem only really produced for a short period, so he never had chance at growth, as he never carried on with his focus on production...point is, eminem beats do not all sound the same any more than your general producer. does til i collapse sound like renegade? does lose yourself sound like cleanin out my closet? he had a signature sound, no doubt, but his beats were no more repetitive than your modern day mustard beat....


btw, yes, khayree is a legend..perhaps the GOAT bay area producer.

Oh yeah ...i dont dispute what your saying here. But thats also what im trying to say.
Your average producer does the same thing over and over until they burn out and there are a hell of a lot of them.
The good ones ride a certain sound for a little whilst then change it up and progress

Its the "real" producers that can switch up their styles and can have long lasting careers as producers. Flash pan producers like Em are the
"here today and gone tomorrow" producers. They cant change their style so they dont last long...because really they are not good producers.

As for the Em tracks...its funny you should mention those tracks because i nearly wrote this in my last comment
about Em's productions having 2 or at a push maybe 3 different variations...the "Loose Yourself" beat and the "What I Am" beat.
All his beats are different takes on those two kind of sounds

Till i collapse sounds similar to loose yourself and renegade sounds similar to cleaning out my closet lol

Till I collapse sounds nothing like lose yourself to me .. Cleaning out my closet sounds nothin like renegade to me, outside of a similar snare. I think you're selling Eminem short. Neptune beats from that era sounded a whole lot more similar than em beats typically did.

[BlueSwan]

What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:

Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.

Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.

While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:

Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show

[Sccit]

i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og</a>

[TidyKris]

What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:

Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.

Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.

While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:

Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show

True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.

[TidyKris]

i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og</a>

Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.

As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.

Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.

An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.

Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head  

[CORREA]

i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og</a>

Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.

As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.

Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.

An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.

Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head  

yep it has that same o em sound

[Sccit]

i remember when this first came out, some cats thought it was produced by dre

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKPMTRM8og</a>

Naaa man...that beat stinks of Eminem. Its that typical Eminem sound..you can hear it a mile away.

As for Till I Collapse and Loose Yourself not sounding alike..they do. They both have the exact same structure.
Start off with the little guitar riff...vocals come in with guitar and "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bass...builds then the 4X4 drum loop
comes in with the rapping. Not identical to Loose Yourself but exactly the same template with little bits changed, different notes etc.

Same with Cleaning Out My Closet & Renegade..same template. Same trippy eerie diminished notes and keys. Just different instruments used and
a slightly different melody.

An you can do that will all Ems productions...there are around 3 different styles that he has. That Xzibit track "My Name" is the same...thats the
"Loose Yourself" beat again just slowed down. Plucky guitars and the "duu-duu" "duu-duu" bassline and 4x4 drum loop.,.the only difference
with that one is it has the Dre string stabs at the end of every bar.

Your right about Neptunes too...they were the same. Thats why they were only on top for a few years before fizzling out.
Same can be said for a lot of others who were on top for a little whilst...KLC, Mannie Fresh are another two off the top of head  

Same template with different outcome. Again, most producers use a similar template for a majority of their beats. This is nothing new..neptunes fizzled out? Lol pharell is bigger than ever, and his beats still got the same sound, give or take, so I duno where that came from.

[Sccit]

What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:

Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.

Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.

While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:

Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show

True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.

Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.

[Hack Wilson - real]

Em uses ghost producers.

Who doesn't?

necro

[DRGNBLZN]

Whos heard King Gordy's The Entity? that's a straight up horrorcore album and Eminem produced the whole thing. You can still tell its Eminem behind the boards but a lot of the production still has its twists.

I've always thought Eminem was best assisting other producers though. Take the SSLP which he assited Dre on, or "Not Afraid", "Many Men", the beats he was involved in on the Bad Meets Evil EP.

[Dargine]

Whos heard King Gordy's The Entity? that's a straight up horrorcore album and Eminem produced the whole thing. You can still tell its Eminem behind the boards but a lot of the production still has its twists.

I've always thought Eminem was best assisting other producers though. Take the SSLP which he assited Dre on, or "Not Afraid", "Many Men", the beats he was involved in on the Bad Meets Evil EP.

Eminem didn't produce all of The Entity, only like 4 or 5 songs, "Nightmares", "The Pain", "Pass Me A Lighter" and 1 or 2 others. Jeff and Mark Bass and Steve King did do some of the others and Eminem was the executive producer of it, The 45 King who did "Stan" also produced on it. To this day that's one of my favourite albums ever made tho', "Nightmares" is great.

I also really like that "All I Think About" joint he did with Royce on that soundtrack recently, Eminem produced that.

[TidyKris]

What impresses me most about Eminem, the producer, is this:

Usually producers who rap are average MC's at best. Dre is a solid rapper with a great voice, but not really an MC at all.

Eminem is am undisputed top 10 dead or alive MC who also was for a while a very good producer. None of the other truly top level MC's comes close to that. Kanye is a top level producer who learned to become a pretty great rapper himself, but he is definitely not top 10.

While I do agree that Eminem has a certain sound that he never managed to progress away from, it is hard to deny the quality of productions like:

Lose Yourself
Renegade
Rabbit Run
Revelation and a few other tracks from the first D12 album
Damn well most of The Eminem Show

True but you cant really give Em credit for the quality of the beats...thats dont to the guys who were actually producing and mixing them.
Em was like Puffy when it came to producing...he told the producers what he wanted it to sound like and they did it. Not sure if he was always like
that but that was how he did it in the early days when those beats where made.

Yea... That's what producing is. Pretty sure he still gets credit, as even you said, you can tell an em beat from a mile a way. You can't really play both sides of the fence here.

Yeah i know what you mean but its not like the old days when the orchestrator of the track is known as the producer and the ones who actually
make it are known as the engineers etc. These days you mainly just call the beat maker and the one doing all the work the producer...espeically with how easy it is to do in this day and age.

Yeah you can tell an Em beat stright away, the melodies the way they are constructed and sequenced etc. What i meant by that comment is you cant give Em credit for the
production quality of the beats..because thats down to the guys actually doing it. Finding the right sounds, mixing them in, Eqing, mastering etc..we know Em does none of that or at least
her didnt back then

As for the Neptunes...they did fizzle out. Yeah Pharrel carried on with a similar path but that old Neptues style and them as a group did not last long on top. Pharrel just
took it to another level and progressed the sound over the years. Then there was NERD too

But i see that you have a different opinion about Ems productions to me and thats cool! Everybody see's things a different way and hears things a different way
We both know our shit...just have a different opinion of some things!