Question for Christians turned Muslim

[Shallow]

I haven't been on this section of the forum too often so forgive me if this has been brought up one too many times already. But I have a questionm to ask to all those that abandoned Christianity for Islam (or Judaism):

What was so wrong with with what Jesus said and stood for that you would choose to denounce him?

It's very evident that nothing in the Quran advances the morals of the Gospel. (not to say that Jesus was the first to think the way he did, his purpose was to teach it to the masses)

[Ras Kassiano]

In case you don't know, since a lot of people don't, Muslims believe in Jesus.  

[Lincoln]

Nothing is wrong with Jesus (PBUH). He is a Prophet in Islam, and by Islamic definition was a Muslim.

Now, I have read the entire New Testament, when I was 15. Realistically, the concept of Son of God never made sense to me. My feeling was always, why would God have a child? Why, being the wisest, would He throw off the balance of the world? It doesn't make sense to me. Not that I don't respect Christians, they're often well-meaning people. I respect who respects me.

[Shallow]

Okay I know they believe in Jesus as a prophet. What I was trying to enquire was whats so wrong with following Jesus, and what does Muhamed say that that Jesus does not say as good or better?

As for the son of God thing. Who are we to question God? Let's say that God wasn't pleased with the way prophets before Jesus twisted his words and used their connection with God as power to vcontrol the people politically, so God decided that he needed his words to come straight from him. And since God is to powerful for Earth to contain him, he needed a shell, Jesus. But maybe God new in advance that his prophets would abuse their gift and, aas told by Jesus, created his son before he created the universe. Son could be metaphorical. Just a thought.

[Shallow]

If you are an athiest or born Muslim this thread is not for you. No offense its just that my arguments would be pointless.

I am a christian and believe in Jesus. BUT I do not believe that if you don't believe in him you don't acheive eternal life. I believe that many of Jesus's preachings were metaphorical, and that he represented the greater good metaphorically. Thats not to say that the only greater good is him. He said himself that he was here to cure the sinners, not the righteious. This proves that there were good people before him who would be granted eternal life, and that it is possible to be good without him, in the literal sense.

[7even]

Or, maybe nothing of this exists. Just a thought.

[Shallow]

You could be right, After all religion is based on faith and faith is not based on fact. I don't think I could ever be an athiest, because if all I believe in is whats right in front of me, and when I die thats it, then whats the point of life. Humans need hope, and I feel bad for those thet have none, not to say that you have no hope, or that you are a bad person. But your thoughts ae better fit for another thread. I just want to know why christians turn to Islam, and I want a better reason than because God doesn't need a son, thats all.

[Lincoln]

If that's not a good enough reason then I'm sorry. That's the primary reason I looked for religion other than Christianity. As I posted in another thread, I was given a school project on Islam and became interested. Then an Anglican Minister encouraged me to find God, which he and I discussed and he told me that there was nothing wrong with non-Christian religions. Then I was inspired by people like Malcolm X.

Now, I think that it is wrong to compare Mohammed (PBUH) and Jesus (PBUH). They were sent in 2 different times, to 2 different people. Jesus (PBUH) was sent to help bring the Jews of that time to their former greatness, for they were great rebels. Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to Nomadic Arabs, and therefore they wouldn't understand some random preaching. Therefore, Mohammed (PBUH) had to use techniques of war in order to unite the Arab people, which worked because for many years they were far above European Nations of the time.

[Ras Kassiano]

1. John (3:17) says that you "MIGHT be saved."
There is no guarantee of salvation. In Islam there is.

2. The Bible has been interpreted, hence revised, over and over as time went on. In fact, there are many versions of the Bible. In the Qu'ran not 1 word has been changed, and there isn't more than 1 version.


THERE ARE ALSO REFERENCES TO ISLAM/MUHAMMED IN THE BIBLE.

3. In Deuteronomy 33:2, we see Moses peace be upon him predicting that GOD Almighty will execute His Holy Judgement in the city of Paran by 10,000 of Believers:

"And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.  (From the King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

We also read about the same prophecy by Prophet Enoch peace be upon him:

"And Enoch [Idris in Arabic] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.  (Jude 1:14-15)"

Now, according to the Islamic history, the city of Mecca (Paran) was liberated by Prophet Muhammad's 10,000-men army.


4. Prophet Isaiah peace be upon him prophesied that two leaders whom he called "Chariot" would come -- one riding a donkey, and another riding a camel:

"And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:  (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"

Jesus came on the ass(donkey)
Muhammed came on the camel



5. CHAPTER 220 of the "Gospel of Barnabus (Joseph)"

Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that every sin, however small it be, God punishes with great punishment, seeing that God is offended at sin. Wherefore, since my mother and my faithful disciples that were with me loved me a little with earthly love, the righteous God has willed to punish this love with the present grief, in order that it may not be punished in the flames of hell. And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me "God," and "Son of God," God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of Muhammad;, the Messenger ;of God, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God's Law. Having thus spoken, Jesus said: 'You are just, O Lord our God, because to you only belongs honour and glory without end.'

[Shallow]

If that's not a good enough reason then I'm sorry. That's the primary reason I looked for religion other than Christianity. As I posted in another thread, I was given a school project on Islam and became interested. Then an Anglican Minister encouraged me to find God, which he and I discussed and he told me that there was nothing wrong with non-Christian religions. Then I was inspired by people like Malcolm X.

Now, I think that it is wrong to compare Mohammed (PBUH) and Jesus (PBUH). They were sent in 2 different times, to 2 different people. Jesus (PBUH) was sent to help bring the Jews of that time to their former greatness, for they were great rebels. Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to Nomadic Arabs, and therefore they wouldn't understand some random preaching. Therefore, Mohammed (PBUH) had to use techniques of war in order to unite the Arab people, which worked because for many years they were far above European Nations of the time.

You didn't really answer "why". Okay you became interseted in Islam but what's wrong with Jesus?

For the record it is very apparent that Jesus did not come just for the Jews. He even told them that when he cured the centurians slave. Now you mention the techniques of war used by Muhamed. This is what kept me from even considering Islam as a choice of religion for me. How can you preach peace and condone war. If he was the most favoured prophet of God why couldn't he use the almighty's assistance to make his points through miracles like the other major ones did, Moses, Jesus. To me Muhamed wasn't too different than Caesar. He saw injustice and wanted to correct it, and used a connection with God to create an illusion of superiorty. He was a significant revolutionary, but I fail to see the perfection in him.

[Shallow]

1. John (3:17) says that you "MIGHT be saved."
There is no guarantee of salvation. In Islam there is.

2. The Bible has been interpreted, hence revised, over and over as time went on. In fact, there are many versions of the Bible. In the Qu'ran not 1 word has been changed, and there isn't more than 1 version.


THERE ARE ALSO REFERENCES TO ISLAM/MUHAMMED IN THE BIBLE.

3. In Deuteronomy 33:2, we see Moses peace be upon him predicting that GOD Almighty will execute His Holy Judgement in the city of Paran by 10,000 of Believers:

"And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.  (From the King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

We also read about the same prophecy by Prophet Enoch peace be upon him:

"And Enoch [Idris in Arabic] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.  (Jude 1:14-15)"

Now, according to the Islamic history, the city of Mecca (Paran) was liberated by Prophet Muhammad's 10,000-men army.


4. Prophet Isaiah peace be upon him prophesied that two leaders whom he called "Chariot" would come -- one riding a donkey, and another riding a camel:

"And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:  (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"

Jesus came on the ass(donkey)
Muhammed came on the camel



5. CHAPTER 220 of the "Gospel of Barnabus (Joseph)"

Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that every sin, however small it be, God punishes with great punishment, seeing that God is offended at sin. Wherefore, since my mother and my faithful disciples that were with me loved me a little with earthly love, the righteous God has willed to punish this love with the present grief, in order that it may not be punished in the flames of hell. And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me "God," and "Son of God," God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of Muhammad;, the Messenger ;of God, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God's Law. Having thus spoken, Jesus said: 'You are just, O Lord our God, because to you only belongs honour and glory without end.'

Where have you read the gospel of Barnabas?

[infinite59]

I haven't been on this section of the forum too often so forgive me if this has been brought up one too many times already. But I have a questionm to ask to all those that abandoned Christianity for Islam (or Judaism):

What was so wrong with with what Jesus said and stood for that you would choose to denounce him?

It's very evident that nothing in the Quran advances the morals of the Gospel. (not to say that Jesus was the first to think the way he did, his purpose was to teach it to the masses)

You raised some intriquing questions and I applaud you for debating and discussing in a polite and friendly manner.  The Qu'ran teaches us that of the Christians there are many who pray throughout the night and ask for forgiveness from God (Allah).  Those that do good deeds and do not fight and persecute against the Muslims, Allah demands we treat them with great respect and genorosity.

I was raised Christian.  My mother's family was Catholic and my father's family southern baptist.  I could not stand for all the hypocrisy in the Church and never could identify with man being God, so at age 14 I became an atheist.  Then at age 18 I went through yet another transformation when I finally came to know about Islam.  The primary reason I accepted Islam is because Islam can put your whole life and daily affairs in perfect order; Beggining with Allah being the One and Only, the Supreme Being, and the only deity worthy of worship.  Next, the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran and the practice of Islam begin to take hold of you and discipline your mind and body into submission to Allah, through intense praying, fasting, traveling (Hajj), supplicating to Allah, the brotherhood and comrodery amongst Muslims, the knowledge and psychology of the Holy Qu'ran... Soon one's life becomes a temple of worship.

To answer your first question, nothing is wrong with Jesus (peace be unto him).  He was a a devinely inspired prophet of God, and we believe in much of the gospels, although some of it has been lost in translation and altered for political reasons.

To answer your second question let me explain how the Qu'ran advanced the morals of the gospel, and previously revealed messages of Allah.  Being that Islam was to be the culmination of all messages, Islam was to offer the believers giudance in every sphere and aspect of life.  Allah has decreed in the Qu'ran "And verily, on this day I have completed the religion of (submission to the will of God)".  So in doing so, the Holy Qu'ran gave the believers giudance in all aspects from how to pray, how to orchestrate a society and government, how to fight against oppression and subjugation, economics, judiciary, dietary, marriage, divorce; a Muslim is never without giudance.

[ZILLA THA GOODFELLA]

Now you mention the techniques of war used by Muhamed. This is what kept me from even considering Islam as a choice of religion for me. How can you preach peace and condone war. If he was the most favoured prophet of God why couldn't he use the almighty's assistance to make his points through miracles like the other major ones did, Moses, Jesus. To me Muhamed wasn't too different than Caesar. He saw injustice and wanted to correct it, and used a connection with God to create an illusion of superiorty. He was a significant revolutionary, but I fail to see the perfection in him.

great point....I've been tellin this 2 some of my fellow muslims for years now, but ofcourse they always have an answer 2 everything, they start preaching with the help of what they have read, which doesn't really answer anything....u kno wat I mean?

it's funny how infinite talks about the hypocrisy that goes on christianity (which I do not diagree with 1 bit), but fact is there is just as much or even greater hypocrisy with muslims....

sayin a muslim is never without guidance is a general statement that could be made about any religion, but it's a foolish one nontheless....both religions preach positivity and set standards for our way of living in this world....both provide guidance....but the hypocrisy over shadows it all....

it is great to have faith, if U don't believe that there is a god, then U have issues, U have problems, call me closed-minded all U want....but when faith creates segregation, that is when it becomes a tool to be evil, even if it is deep inside and can't be seen....

[Ras Kassiano]

If that's not a good enough reason then I'm sorry. That's the primary reason I looked for religion other than Christianity. As I posted in another thread, I was given a school project on Islam and became interested. Then an Anglican Minister encouraged me to find God, which he and I discussed and he told me that there was nothing wrong with non-Christian religions. Then I was inspired by people like Malcolm X.

Now, I think that it is wrong to compare Mohammed (PBUH) and Jesus (PBUH). They were sent in 2 different times, to 2 different people. Jesus (PBUH) was sent to help bring the Jews of that time to their former greatness, for they were great rebels. Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to Nomadic Arabs, and therefore they wouldn't understand some random preaching. Therefore, Mohammed (PBUH) had to use techniques of war in order to unite the Arab people, which worked because for many years they were far above European Nations of the time.

You didn't really answer "why". Okay you became interseted in Islam but what's wrong with Jesus?

For the record it is very apparent that Jesus did not come just for the Jews. He even told them that when he cured the centurians slave. Now you mention the techniques of war used by Muhamed. This is what kept me from even considering Islam as a choice of religion for me. How can you preach peace and condone war. If he was the most favoured prophet of God why couldn't he use the almighty's assistance to make his points through miracles like the other major ones did, Moses, Jesus. To me Muhamed wasn't too different than Caesar. He saw injustice and wanted to correct it, and used a connection with God to create an illusion of superiorty. He was a significant revolutionary, but I fail to see the perfection in him.

Read this line:

Isaiah (024:023) "Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously."

The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon). And if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: "This is continuous magic."  (Qur’an 54:1-3)

A prophecy predicted in the Old Testament was fulfilled by Muhammed and the splitting of the moon was the miracle he performed.

[Ras Kassiano]

You didn't really answer "why". Okay you became interseted in Islam but what's wrong with Jesus?

For the record it is very apparent that Jesus did not come just for the Jews. He even told them that when he cured the centurians slave. Now you mention the techniques of war used by Muhamed. This is what kept me from even considering Islam as a choice of religion for me. How can you preach peace and condone war. If he was the most favoured prophet of God why couldn't he use the almighty's assistance to make his points through miracles like the other major ones did, Moses, Jesus. To me Muhamed wasn't too different than Caesar. He saw injustice and wanted to correct it, and used a connection with God to create an illusion of superiorty. He was a significant revolutionary, but I fail to see the perfection in him.

Wouldn't your comments parallel the actions of Jesus in the lines here:

(From the different Gospels)

Mark:011:015 "And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves"

Luke: 019:045 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought

Luke: 019:027 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Matthew: 021:012 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

John: 002:013 And the Jews' Passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

002:014 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

002:015 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

002:019 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


Bush might even consider Jesus a terrorist.