Rock and Roll VS Hip Hop who measures up?

[Noname]

I got a question for you shallow.  Reggae has the same attitude as rock and roll you know, rebelious against the systeem smoking weed and all that stuff. So do you consider reggae rock and roll?

With out a doubt. If you look at the history of Reggae it was the folk music of the islands infused with the western Roick and Roll as a direct influence. Look at pictures of Bob Marley from the early 60s and you'll see him dressed just like the bands in the US of the time. If the Beatles are Rock and Roll then I don't see why the Whailers aren't.

well then you can say (by your standards) reggae is rock and roll and rap is rock and roll. So then you could name it almost any type of rebelious music. And its not specificly rock and roll.

[Shallow]

I got a question for you shallow.  Reggae has the same attitude as rock and roll you know, rebelious against the systeem smoking weed and all that stuff. So do you consider reggae rock and roll?

With out a doubt. If you look at the history of Reggae it was the folk music of the islands infused with the western Roick and Roll as a direct influence. Look at pictures of Bob Marley from the early 60s and you'll see him dressed just like the bands in the US of the time. If the Beatles are Rock and Roll then I don't see why the Whailers aren't.

well then you can say (by your standards) reggae is rock and roll and rap is rock and roll. So then you could name it almost any type of rebelious music. And its not specificly rock and roll.

If it's not then what is rock and roll? If Rock and Roll is just Rhythm and Blues with a country flavour then Rock and Roll died the second Dylan recorded Like A Rollingstone or even when the Beatles recorded Love Me Do. Songs from that era sounded nothing like the songs from the 50s. Why should both be in the same genre and why should 60s rock be considered Rock and Roll when it sounds nothing like 50s rock?

I have been doing some thinking and maybe it has to be directly influenced by the Tennessee movement for it to be considered Rock and Roll. There is no doubt that Reggae was influenced by that, and the Beatles, and Dylan, and Led Zeppelin, and The Ramones, and Aerosmith, and Run DMC. It all ties in together for me. The quick paced complex rhymes of Rakim or KRS sound directly influenced by the quick paced complex rhymes of Bob Dyaln's "It's Alright Ma". The sound a record makes when you scratch doesn't sound to different than some Jimmy Page solos I've heard Page was influenced by Rythm and Blues.

What is Rock and Roll? Can anyone asnwer that for me?

[ac1386]

everyone on here has a different idea of what rock n roll is. some people are using it as a genre of music, some are seeing it as an attitude, ect ect. I don't know much about rock n roll, i could never get into it. When i think of something that moves me i think hip hop. What i do know is what i think of rock and roll. When i think of rock and roll i think of all the classic stuff like the beatles and elvis. I also think of the hair bands, especially the hair bands and nirvana, so on and so on. Now a days you have more alternative shit and when i think of that i think of rock. when you add the roll, to me it kind of changes the sound, the feel. Even attitude wise, hip hop i dont think fits in that catagory. if just doenst work for me. they are both rebellious, but rebellion is very broad. its a completely different feel. Hip hop uses sounds from rock and roll songs and evolved from rock and roll, but its not rock and roll to me. I feel that if hip hop is rock and roll, then you are your mom and dad. I come from my parents, i have things in me that i got from my parents, but i am by no means my paretns. I'm my parents and everyone else in my family ties mixed up to make me. Thats how i look at hip hop. It's it's own thing. Rock n roll has genres like grundge, punk, metal. Those are all rock n roll, but they came so far after rock n roll really started. Hip hop is a young genre, but its beginning to get those spin offs very slowly like crunk, gangstar, ect. Im with my man up a little bit, i could never be convinced that hip hop is rock n roll.

[Shallow]

everyone on here has a different idea of what rock n roll is. some people are using it as a genre of music, some are seeing it as an attitude, ect ect. I don't know much about rock n roll, i could never get into it. When i think of something that moves me i think hip hop. What i do know is what i think of rock and roll. When i think of rock and roll i think of all the classic stuff like the beatles and elvis. I also think of the hair bands, especially the hair bands and nirvana, so on and so on. Now a days you have more alternative shit and when i think of that i think of rock. when you add the roll, to me it kind of changes the sound, the feel. Even attitude wise, hip hop i dont think fits in that catagory. if just doenst work for me. they are both rebellious, but rebellion is very broad. its a completely different feel. Hip hop uses sounds from rock and roll songs and evolved from rock and roll, but its not rock and roll to me. I feel that if hip hop is rock and roll, then you are your mom and dad. I come from my parents, i have things in me that i got from my parents, but i am by no means my paretns. I'm my parents and everyone else in my family ties mixed up to make me. Thats how i look at hip hop. It's it's own thing. Rock n roll has genres like grundge, punk, metal. Those are all rock n roll, but they came so far after rock n roll really started. Hip hop is a young genre, but its beginning to get those spin offs very slowly like crunk, gangstar, ect. Im with my man up a little bit, i could never be convinced that hip hop is rock n roll.

Let's say, using your family theory, that Blues and Country got married and became The Smith family, and each had two sons, RnB Smith and Rockabilly Smith. RnB Smith had a son, Motown Smith, and Rockabilly Smith had a son named British Rock Smith, and another son with folk named Folk Rock Smith. British Rock Smith had 3 sons, Acid Rock Smith, Hard Rock Smith, and Art Rock Smith, while Folk Rock evloved as a bachelor. Hard Rock then had Metal Smith and Punk Smith, while Motown raised a very rebellious Funk Smith who was partly raised by his uncle Acid Rock Smith. Funk Smith gave birth to Hip Hop, but Hard Rock and Folk Rock had a hand in guiding the young lad to it teenage years. Punk Smith had New Wave Smith and Grunge Smith, and then Punk Smith lent a hand in cousin Hip Hop become a man. New Wave then had Techno Smith, and the Smith family lives with us today.

Now this is all very confusing, but the bottom line is that all of these are their own man, but they are all Smiths. Replace Smith with Rock and Roll and you'll see what I mean. Now you can denounce this theory but if you do so then you have to say that Metal and Punk aren't Rock and Roll, if Hip Hop isn't.

Yes Hip Hop has it's own subgenres, but so does Metal (Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Hair Metal), Punk and all the others.

[Javier]

This Rock N Roll discussion is really just about the the rhytym of the music, lets not forget the art of DJing and MCing.  You can get a single drum, which obviously has been around before Rock N Roll, create a rhytym and the MC will start rhyming, and it is hip hop. 

[MidoriHaze]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

[Shallow]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

[Noname]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

Well i dont have any bad experiences or personal feelings towards rock and roll, its just not my kind of music. Hip hop and rock and roll could come from the same music genres, but they grew apart from eachother. And they have an identity of their own. Its just like an identical twin, you have one seed that 2 children grow from. They may look identical on the outside, but on the inside they are very different. And this is the same with rock and roll and hip hop. If you look at the lifestyle and attitude on the outside, thay may look the same. But if you live one lifestyle you can never say that they are the same. Its like saying Ronaldo and Adriano are the same because they both score goals, but the way they do it makes them different from eachother and unique.

[coola]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

Well i dont have any bad experiences or personal feelings towards rock and roll, its just not my kind of music. Hip hop and rock and roll could come from the same music genres, but they grew apart from eachother. And they have an identity of their own. Its just like and identical twin, you have one seed that 2 children grow from. They may look identical on the outside, but on the inside they are very different. And this is the same with rock and roll and hip hop. If you look at the lifestyle on attitude on the outside thay may look the same. But if you live on lifestyle you can never say that they are the same. Its like saying Ronaldo and Adriano are the same because they both score goals, but the way they do it makes them different from eachother and unique.

yeah that was well put...

[Shallow]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

Well i dont have any bad experiences or personal feelings towards rock and roll, its just not my kind of music. Hip hop and rock and roll could come from the same music genres, but they grew apart from eachother. And they have an identity of their own. Its just like and identical twin, you have one seed that 2 children grow from. They may look identical on the outside, but on the inside they are very different. And this is the same with rock and roll and hip hop. If you look at the lifestyle on attitude on the outside thay may look the same. But if you live on lifestyle you can never say that they are the same. Its like saying Ronaldo and Adriano are the same because they both score goals, but the way they do it makes them different from eachother and unique.

You ignored the "if" I used. If you feel that Rock and Roll is one thing while Heavy Metal is another and Punk is another, then sure Hip Hip is something else. But IF you consider Punk and Metal to both be Rock but for Hip Hop to not be, then you are ignorant. You are not ignorant if you think otherwise and feel they are all separate from Rock and Roll.

[coola]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

Well i dont have any bad experiences or personal feelings towards rock and roll, its just not my kind of music. Hip hop and rock and roll could come from the same music genres, but they grew apart from eachother. And they have an identity of their own. Its just like and identical twin, you have one seed that 2 children grow from. They may look identical on the outside, but on the inside they are very different. And this is the same with rock and roll and hip hop. If you look at the lifestyle on attitude on the outside thay may look the same. But if you live on lifestyle you can never say that they are the same. Its like saying Ronaldo and Adriano are the same because they both score goals, but the way they do it makes them different from eachother and unique.

You ignored the "if" I used. If you feel that Rock and Roll is one thing while Heavy Metal is another and Punk is another, then sure Hip Hip is something else. But IF you consider Punk and Metal to both be Rock but for Hip Hop to not be, then you are ignorant. You are not ignorant if you think otherwise and feel they are all separate from Rock and Roll.

is metal a life-style nowa days or a genre ?

[wcsoldier]

Explain why everybody want to compare Rock to Hip Hop ? This is a big pb when it comes to the fans of both kinds of music. Lots of so wannabes hip hop fans hate rock (the contrary is true too). I'm not at all in Rock, though I respect this kind of music, Rock and Hip Hop influenced themselves. People speak more about music or artists they hate than those  they like

[Shallow]

Thread's been taking out of context, i'm sure when it was created the intention wasn't to start a debate on the origins of other genres. Despite their origin there is an obvious difference between to the two and both are comparable, hence the reason for different target bases.

But what is Rock and Roll? It's not about the origins of each it's about figuring out what we are debating. Elvis and The Sex Pistols are as fas away from the same thing as can be. Snoop is more like Elvis than Johnny Rotten is. Now if someone asked what's better Hip Hop or Metal? or Hip Hop or Punk? Gangsta Rap or Grunge? Hip Hop or Acid/Psychodelic Rock? or Current Hip Hop or current Garage Rock? Then we could have a debate, but I don't think you can say Hip Hop or Rock and Roll because Rock and Roll cannot be defined by a single sound. To me it's like saying; What's better Hollywood or Short Films? Hollywood or Cartoon Movies? Hollywood or Musicals? Short Films, Cartoons, and Musicals can all fall under Hollywood. Now if you say live action dramas, or high budegt action films then you can have a real debate.

Anyone that doesn't see why Hip Hop falls under the Rock and Roll umbrella but thinks Punk and Metal do is an ignorant fool who only disagrees because they have a bad personal feeling towards rock or rockers. Kraftwerk would make songs using just keyboards and samples, why are they Rock and not hip hop. Aerosmith rapped on Walk This Way, why wasn't that song considered rap until Run DMC covered it? It's prejudice and stupidity. "Hip Hip can't be Rock". I hear it all the time in my area, by the same people that think blacks were the slaves for every nation in history. "Whites were never enslaved".

Well i dont have any bad experiences or personal feelings towards rock and roll, its just not my kind of music. Hip hop and rock and roll could come from the same music genres, but they grew apart from eachother. And they have an identity of their own. Its just like and identical twin, you have one seed that 2 children grow from. They may look identical on the outside, but on the inside they are very different. And this is the same with rock and roll and hip hop. If you look at the lifestyle on attitude on the outside thay may look the same. But if you live on lifestyle you can never say that they are the same. Its like saying Ronaldo and Adriano are the same because they both score goals, but the way they do it makes them different from eachother and unique.

You ignored the "if" I used. If you feel that Rock and Roll is one thing while Heavy Metal is another and Punk is another, then sure Hip Hip is something else. But IF you consider Punk and Metal to both be Rock but for Hip Hop to not be, then you are ignorant. You are not ignorant if you think otherwise and feel they are all separate from Rock and Roll.

is metal a life-style nowa days or a genre ?

Metal and Punk are no less a lifestyle than Hip Hop is. They each have their own fashions, attitudes, philosophies. In hip hop you paint walls with spray paaint to express yourself. In punk you paint your face and hair to express yourself. In metal you paint your face in other ways. In hip hop you break dance, as opposed to moshing or headbanging. People can say hip hop is life all they want but I know some very serious metal and very serious punk fans that would say they are a part of lifestyles too.

[coola]

you are just stubborn. cant say you dont have a good argument though... but i wont buy it.

peace.

[Shallow]

you are just stubborn. cant say you dont have a good argument though... but i wont buy it.

peace.

You are the one that's stubborn. Go around the city you live and look for Punk fans or Metal fans, you can pick them out as easily as you can hip hop fans. Ask them what the music they listen does to influence who they are and what they do. You'll find that there is nothing hip hop gives to someone that Punk or Metal cannot. For everyhting that hip hop has that Meatl or Punk don't, there is smoething they have that hip hop doesn't.

Goddamn Hip Hop fans! And people wonder why I stopped calling myself one. Fucking idiots actually think it's a real culture. Cultures have religion, food, ideals, philosophies, music, dance, education, everything. In a true culture you can live off of things particular to that culture and not need anything outside it. Hip Hop is music, just like Punk or Metal. Just because that music chose to adopt things outside of it does not make it a true culture. Music comes from culture, cultures do not come from music. The culture that hip hop s currently part of is Black American urban street culture, as opposed to Black American rural culture, or White American rural cutlure, or American Surburb Culture. They day something like Hip Hop or Punk become accepted as a culture the same way Native American culture is seen uis a culture is the day I start a personal protest against such stupidity.

Do you eat Hip Hop food?

Do you go to Hip Hop schools?

Do you learn Hip Hop ideals?

What's you Hip Hop religion?

Something like Mexico has a Mexican Culture. I can go to Mexico and eat Mexican food, attend a Mexican school. Learn things about the Mexican way of life, and attend a Mexican Church. It is all there and it is a part of over 90% of Mexicans. Do 90% of Hip Hop heads attend KRS's Temple or whatever the hell he thinks he's doing.