Author Topic: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....  (Read 1812 times)

Real American

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2005, 05:18:02 PM »
I to The Geezy won this debate.
 

virtuoso

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2005, 06:25:28 PM »

Amen to that Fallujah, which is exactly why I am no longer responding directly to what he says
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2005, 07:26:26 AM »
Let me ask you one simple question... if Zionist leaders have admitted to carrying out the discussed acts... then why do you insist that those things never happened? why do you try to defend lies when those who committed the acts have already admitted to them? it honestly makes no sense..  i don't know if you're trying to imply that those guys lied when they said those things and only said them just to simply say them or what...

Many people on both sides died-fact.It doesn't mean you can make such a genralization. By saying "The Palestinian People Are Victims Of Zionism" you're not saying "Large numbers of Palestinians were killed throughout the conflict" you're saying "Every Palestinian is a victim of Zionism" which is untrue and is in fact propaganda because there are plenty of Palestinians who thrive on the Zionist enterprise.

Here let's use logic:

If you accept- The Palestinian People are victims of Zionism

knowing that:

20% of Israel's (Israel-Zionist enterprise) population is Palestinian and lives 100s of times better the Arabs in the Palestinian Autonomy

-It is immediately disproved.



Although every Palestinian, without exception, is a byproduct of Zionism.
No Zionism=No Palestinians

And it is wierd that someone who is willing to make such a generalization is not making it when it comes to Palestinians being victims of their leadership....

The fact that Palestinian nationalism was a byproduct of Zionism makes a difference to you? The fact that they're better off in Israel means there haven't been victims?

Let's use the I Geezy approach...

Blacks have never been victims in America because they're way better off here now than they would ever have been if we didn't bring their ancestors over as slaves.

Seriously... it's as easy as 1+1... you're a tool.
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Kassem

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2005, 07:41:13 AM »
i gave up on the two ,everytime geazy is confronted with facts he just changes the topic.it's hard for him to realise he is living in a country that based on terrorism.a lost kid in a bug world,i feel sorry for him.
United Arab States
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2005, 07:55:32 AM »
Blacks have never been victims in America because they're way better off here now than they would ever have been if we didn't bring their ancestors over as slaves.

You got it,
I can't even say the Jewish People had been a victim to anti-semitism as long as there is one Jew who hadn't been a victim to anti-semitism. I can say however that many Jews had been victims to anti-semitism.
The moment there is one exceptional, the entire generalization collapses. I wouldn't oppose saying something like "Many Palestinians/Arabs were killed" because it is a fact just like "Many Israelis/Jews were killed" but saying that an entire PEOPLE had been victim to something is an ungrounded generalization and a mean of propaganda when used to side something politically.


And again, if you accept that one Palestinian dead due to an Israeli\Zionist action makes the entire Palestinian People a victim of Zionsim I'm surprised you don't think one Palestinian dead due to a Palestinian action makes the entire Palestinian People a victim of the Palestinian Leadership.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 08:07:46 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2005, 08:14:13 AM »
First, I suggest you look up the definition of "victim".

Then, you need to understand that I'm not implying that the Zionists carried out genocide or anything like that... but have the Palestinian people been victims of Zionism? Yeah, of course... undeniably so. In the same way that innocent Israelis have died because of Palestinian terrorists... so it wouldn't be wrong to state that "Israelis have been victims of Palestinian terrorism". It's true. Does it have to mean that the entire Israeli "PEOPLE" is victim? No, but there definitely have been those affected.. victims.

My argument was that Palestinians have been victims of Zionism. You said no. I have proven that they have. I am right. You are wrong. If you want to incorporate other aspects into the argument, feel free to do so, but it won't change the fact that my argument stands correct.

Putting 2 and 2 together seems to be quite a difficult task for you. Now please go and play with CWalker & Co. because they seem to be down at your level... you can't hang with me
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2005, 08:30:03 AM »
I am right.

You are wrong. 

Now please go and play with CWalker & Co. because they seem to be down at your level... you can't hang with me

i gave up on the two ,everytime geazy is confronted with facts he just changes the topic.


I guess we can all see now who's on topic and who's off.Some people seem to be playing some internet-ego games instead of adressing the issue.

Now, more to the point.

May I remind you:

but have the Palestinian people been victims of Zionism? Yeah, of course...

Thing is you can not logically use the term Palestinian People because it is a generalization that is ungrounded(Being that 1.The term itself is a product of Zionism 2. There are Palestinians who thrive on Zionism) and it is in fact as easy as 2+2, unlike the conflict itself.
In your case, it has been used to portray 'Zionism' (or Jewish claim to the land) as unjust through an exaggeration of reality(lie\propaganda) and not through logic.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2005, 08:52:29 AM »
Thing is you can not logically use the term Palestinian People because it is a generalization that is ungrounded(Being that 1.The term itself is a product of Zionism 2. There are Palestinians who thrive on Zionism) and it is in fact as easy as 2+2, unlike the conflict itself.
In your case, it has been used to portray 'Zionism' (or Jewish claim to the land) as unjust through an exaggeration of reality(lie\propaganda) and not through logic.

What the fuck does the term have to do with them being victims? I know Israelis forget this sometimes, but they are still people, no matter what you guys may think of them. If there are some Palestinians who "thrive" on Zionism, does that mean that there aren't any victims?

So the fact that Palestinian nationalism is a byproduct of Zionism means something when innocent people die?
You know that Zionism is a byproduct of anti-Semitism? Can I say "Jews weren't victims of the Holocaust and European anti-Semitism in general because if it wasn't for that anti-Semitism, there would never have been Zionism or Israel" ... I still don't blame you for being such a brainwashed tool...

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2005, 11:30:13 AM »
If there are some Palestinians who "thrive" on Zionism, does that mean that there aren't any victims?

Just like some AREN'T the victims of the Palestinian Leadership?

I can't believe you can't see the generalization.

People have suffered on both sides, and it's not like you can't address these people, only that when you do you need to maintain neutrality, without exaggerating reality in the favour of one side. A statement like "The Palestinian People have been victims of Zionism" is a reality twister, because when you say "The Palestinian People..." it is implied that the entire Palestinian People is
a victim of Zionism(and that's without even minding the meaning of the term 'Victim' or the term 'Zionism') and that every Zionist is anti-Palestinian   -both implications are untrue. Rhetorically speaking, when a single statement is not based on logic/reality, it is propaganda. That's it, and this is what I have been trying to show you all along since a generalization could also be made as for the Palestinian People being a victim of their leadership but the fact you chose not to do so, sayes something about your neutrality.


p.s check it:
Every Nazi is Anti-Jewish(by definition) but not every Zionist is Anti-Palestinian....do you accept?

do you see it or is this a tough one?

Let's use another analogy:Talib Kweli-The Proud:

"Today the paper say Timothy McVeigh's in hell
So everything's okay and all must be well
I remember Oklahoma when they put out the blaze
And put Islamic terrorist bombing, on the front page It's like saying only gays get AIDS, propaganda"



« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 12:08:33 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2005, 01:02:13 PM »
You're wrong once again... which isn't unusual.

People have suffered on both sides... you said it... which means that Palestinians have suffered because of Zionism. That's all you needed to say. Why do you argue if you're going to end up agreeing?

I never stated that every single Palestinian was a victim... I also never stated that every Zionist is anti-Palestinian... just because they have no regard for them in a lot of their actions, doesn't make them "anti" anything...

LOL @ "reality twister" coming from a Zionist... the whole Zionist ideology is a reality twister.  "Land with no People".. LOL get the fuck outta here
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2005, 02:16:00 AM »
But didn't you state that

The problem isn't even Sharon or any of these other fucktards... it's the nature of Zionist ideology

???

I also never stated that every Zionist is anti-Palestinian...

It seems like you're starting to get it but still

 How is it the problem if not every Zionist is anti-Palestinian?

Man, you are arguing with yourself.


p.s A Zionist followes the Zionist ideology.






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7even

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2005, 04:58:40 AM »
Today our newspapers are full of Anti-Iran-Propaganda, I guess Bush already prepares for war behind closed doors
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2005, 08:00:25 AM »
But didn't you state that

The problem isn't even Sharon or any of these other fucktards... it's the nature of Zionist ideology

???

I also never stated that every Zionist is anti-Palestinian...

It seems like you're starting to get it but still

 How is it the problem if not every Zionist is anti-Palestinian?

Man, you are arguing with yourself.


p.s A Zionist followes the Zionist ideology.

I know you have trouble putting 2 and 2 together, so let me clarify once again for the slow one...

Zionist ideology doesn't have to be anti-Palestinian in nature in order for it to victimize the Palestinian people. You could replace the word Palestinian with whatever you want... someone has to suffer... and someone did...

Anti-Palestinian sentiment emerged later with the establishment and governance of the terrorist state of Israel.
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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2005, 10:00:58 AM »
Zionist ideology doesn't have to be anti-Palestinian in nature in order for it to victimize the Palestinian people.


In which case then would it become harmful to Palestinians if essentially it is not anti-Palestinian?  ;D








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J @ M @ L

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Re: President of Iran says Israel should be moved to Europe.....
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2005, 03:13:28 PM »
Zionist ideology doesn't have to be anti-Palestinian in nature in order for it to victimize the Palestinian people.

In which case then would it become harmful to Palestinians if essentially it is not anti-Palestinian?  ;D

Once again.. if you were able to read a post in its entirety, you may be able to comprehend, son... is it normal for Zionists to take things out of context and then try to apply a whole new meaning to the statement? Anyways.. I said....

"Zionist ideology doesn't have to be anti-Palestinian in nature in order for it to victimize the Palestinian people. You could replace the word Palestinian with whatever you want... someone has to suffer... and someone did..."


An ideology or institution doesn't have to be racist in nature in order for it to be harmful to certain groups of people.

Zionism doesn't entail hatred for Arabs in its ideology... it just so happens to be that Arabs happened to live on the land the Zionists wanted to take... if it were a different people living on that land, it would've been the same situation... the ideology is harmful to whoever is living on the land... the racism that Zionists portrayed emerged after the settlement of the land...
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