Mr Payback (April 2009) | Interview By:
Javon Adams
Sometimes it’s cool to peak behind the curtain and see what really goes into making a hit song. Producers
see it all and believe me it’s not all pretty but when your hard work earns you a gold or platinum plaque
it’s all worth it. Javon recently hooked up with Clint ‘Mr. Payback’ Sands to discuss his views on the
music industry and his approach to making hits. Mr. Payback has worked with Ice Cube, Squeak Ru, WC and
a who’s who in Hip Hop, R&B and beyond.
Take a few minutes to find out what a producer really does and how a producer in today’s music industry can
stay relevant. Mr. Payback also sheds a little light on how studio tricks can make hits. Plus he mentions
a few R&B singers that have benefited from the producer’s magic wand. Get familiar with Mr. Payback. He’s
a legend in the game and has the plaques to prove it.
Dubcnn: Dubcnn.com we want to welcome the legendary Clint ‘Mr. Payback’ Sands. How are you doing?
Mr Payback: I’m good.
Dubcnn: Thank you for taking a little time out of your day to chop it up. I wanted to
dive right into it. You’re an accomplished producer but can you explain what a producer
does? I know its more than just making a beat right?
Mr Payback: Right.
Dubcnn: So what goes into that? I know you’ve worked with so many illustrious artists
from Ice Cube to Squeak Ru and WC and the list goes on and on. So when you get they get
into the studio with you what is that process like?
Mr Payback: We have a direction on what we want to do…I’m mainly a director. We try
to come up with a hit idea and just execute it. I bring all of the elements together with
the drums, the hook and the artist and make sure they deliver their lyrics right and
everything fits.
Dubcnn: I know you work in different genres of music as well including Pop, R&B and
others so does that same type of thought process apply to all of the different artists
that you work with regardless of genre?
Mr Payback: Yeah.
Dubcnn: Do you end of having to change things up a little bit like flows or the pitch
when a singer is trying to hit the note that is just a little out of their range?
Mr Payback: Yeah, we find little alternatives but it has to be something that works and
it has to be fly. It has to be the best that we can possibly do. So if it’s a note that
they can’t do but they’re trying their heart out then we find something else. But it has
to be equally fly though.
Dubcnn: I know ideally that you want to work with the top notch or top caliber in their
field regardless of genre but is it difficult when you come across someone that isn’t as
talented as the label thinks or even they think? Is it hard to squeeze the best out of
them and make the best product possible?
Mr Payback: No, it’s just being real creative. It’s a longer process but you can still
pull something off. I mean, look at Ashanti.
Dubcnn: laughs* It’s cool that you mention that because she seems like the kind of person
that really can’t seem that well and there might be some behind the scenes producer tricks
and magic going on.
Mr Payback: Uh huh, look at Janet Jackson. Look at Aahliyah. I think Janet is one of the
trick masters. Either her or Aahliyah.
Dubcnn: With Janet its obviously her stage shows that carry her because the voice has never
done it for me.
Mr Payback: T Boz from TLC and you can go on down the line because there are a bunch of them
that have gotten away with studio tricks. Such as a lot of punches (edits) and days and days out
of recording. You don’t know how long it takes or what they can really do or not. A lot of times at the live shows they have vocals going on in the background or they sing to a cd or something.
Dubcnn: I know you have plaques as evidence of your success but how did it feel to get your first plaque?
Mr Payback: Amazing. I felt like I was really doing music.
Dubcnn: How many plaques do you have? I know I’m putting you on the spot but…
Mr Payback: I’m about to count them right now. Nine plaques.
Dubcnn: Does it get old or does it always feel just as exciting when you get the newest plaque
that confirms you were a part of a successful project?
Mr Payback: They are hard to get, especially now, so I really appreciate every last one that
I have. They still hold a lot of value to me. They still give me a feeling of accomplishment like,
‘Man, we did that!’ You can’t have too many of them. You always want more! They’re like wallpaper.
Dubcnn: *laughs* How do you go about staying relevant and fresh regardless the genre in what
you do? Do you have to reinvent yourself or is it just about being you and introducing yourself
to as many people as possible?
Mr Payback: Word to the wise for producers, you can be shallow-minded or pigeon holed. In order
to stay current all you have to do is check out the radio stations or online stations or dubcnn.com.
Find out what’s hot that way. Or go to the clubs. You really have to see what’s crackin’ and if you
really know your craft you’ll understand what kind of drums, claps, tempos or melodies the people like.
You can go home and put it together yourself.
Dubcnn: Can that be a little dangerous in terms of trying to do what is hot now as opposed to
being a half-step ahead of the game? Is that a battle that you fight sometimes?
Mr Payback: Yes and no because the way the business is now if I deal with an A&R and end up
working on a project…A&Rs and most labels are copycats. They want a song like ‘this’ that’s hot
on the radio. That’s kind of whack because I’m copying someone else’s style but putting my own
twist on it.
I’m a musician. I play bass and guitar so I want to put bass and guitar in all of my stuff but
that’s not what the A&R wants. They want it to sound like whatever hit they are playing on the
radio. So when I get with the artist I sit with them and see what they think is hot and we make
something from scratch that is original and fits them. That works the best for me in any genre.
Dubcnn: We were talking about A&Rs wanting that copycat type of sound…I read where you mentioned
that black artists are ‘creatively limited’ right now. Do you think that is a result of the artists
fear to try something new or is it more of what you were talking about with the labels being afraid
to take chances and wanting to copy the hit sound?
Mr Payback: Well, black music is probably in the worst condition that it has ever been in because
a lot of the people that dictate whether or not the music will be played don’t listen to it. A lot of
them aren’t musically inclined at all. They are either attorneys that were doing production deals with
people but they aren’t ex-DJs like they used to be or ex-singers or writers. Those people had
appreciation for writing and originality. Now all they don’t do the music and all they do is sell the
music so they don’t care.
Dubcnn: Gotcha. One of the things that people talk about in the changing music industry is the
decline in sales. I know you work with a lot of your own artists like Squeak Ru, Dawn, Ametrius
and Ms. Toi…how do you redefine what success is for the artists that you work with?
Mr Payback: Success for us…it’s real hard because the radio is very strict on what they play and
they don’t play. A lot of payola goes on and a lot of DJs are scared. There aren’t a lot of authentic
DJs that play in the club and also play on the radio. The radio DJs go with the music program which
means ‘these many songs worked at this station so let’s try it here.’ It’s real hard but we try to come
up with hot songs that take off on their own. So far that has worked.
Ms. Toi has a song called ‘U-Turn’. There’s a dance that goes with it and all that so everybody in the
clubs Down South is doing the U-Turn. On the West I have a song with Squeak Ru. We have a song called
‘Cali Boy’ with Ice Cube.
Dubcnn: That has a nice bounce to it. I like that ‘Cali Boy’ song. You mentioned Squeak Ru and
Ms. Toi. What else can people be on the lookout for with things that Mr. Payback has his fingerprints
on or hands in?
Mr Payback: There’s a label that I’m on the Board of Directors on called the Social Music Group.
The first group is my group called ‘Deez Nutz’.
Dubcnn: That’s your live Funk/Rock band that you have, right?
Mr Payback: Exactly. It’s just like Funk and Rock grooves with R&B singing on top of it. It has
harmonies and the singer sounds like Sly from Sly and the Family Stone. The music is…imagine if today’s
Hip Hop producer connected with a Rock band and what they would do. It would be a funky groove that you
would want to rap to but there is singing on top of it.
Dubcnn: Where can people go to keep up to date on all of those things?
Dubcnn: Is that where they can hit you up because I know people will try to get some of that
production. They may have to save their nickels and dimes but do they hit you up that way too?
Mr Payback: Yeah, I frequently check it.
Dubcnn: Any last words for Dubcnn?
Mr Payback: For you radio jocks, you need to play a record or you can kick rocks.
Dubcnn: *laughs* I heard that. Thanks for your time man.