It's May 13, 2024, 01:44:57 AM
its not the age of the girl thats the problemits the 54 year old thats fucked up in the head and should be interested in women his own age
If a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him?
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.
Quote from: Shallow on April 09, 2006, 09:29:40 AMIf a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him? God tells us in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the last prophet. There have actually been a number of people who claimed to be prophets with new messages (ex: Bahaullah --- Baha'i faith), but "Muslims" didn't accept them because they were already told "by God" that Muhammad was the seal of the prophets.
i find it hard to foresee a need to replace anything that is said in the qu'ran.
And many Christians find it hard to replace anything in the Bible. I personally find it hard to to denounce anything in the gospel. The whole Son of God thing is either believed or not, but cannot be logically dismissed or proven.
Someone new came along and claimed to be a prohet and claimed that Jesus was just a prophet and of course Christians would reject that, much like Muslims who have been told the Quran is the unaltered word of God, when in fact the only thing you can proove is that it is believed to be the unaltered word of God. You don't know for sure, but you believe, and that's fine.
I read lines like this from Surah 4:34;Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.Even in apologist translations it still comes out that the man is the head and his will is more important htan the woman's.
I can't accept anything I feel is immoral as the true word of God.
There was no point to respond to me. I made it very clear that I was just expressing my personal beliefs and in no way wanted to change yours or say yours were wrong. If you responded for the sake of anyone else reading so you didn't appear to give up then I understand.
But you can't give me answers that are outside your realm. You can't prove anything about Islam as being true and it's pointless to try.
You may go in with the implication that I know you mean "you believe" but for people looking on they may not see that and cofuse your beliefs with you attempting to present cold hard facts.
In general you should try to say things that would imply Islam is more pure because the Bible was changed while the Quran wasn't, because you don't know.
I just presented the quote and said I disagree with it, and that I have read the apologist interpretations and still disagreed. I never once said that the Quran endorses domination or terrorism with in the houshold. If it is 50.5% to 49.5% I still think it's wrong, and even if the woman can find a better husband she is still inferior, slightly inferior or not. I strongly believe that a woman lead household, where the woman can have the final say can be just as strong as a male lead household.
I personally want would like a completely equal household where no decisions are made unless we both agree, with compromises being necessary from both, and I personally don't want to believe in a God that says it's okay for my word to take precedent over my wife's. It's just my view.
To answer your last question; "if ultimately you are going with your morality why even bother with the scriptures at all?"I don't bother with them. I read them to know them for educational puposes. I belive when Jesus said he cam for the sinners not the righteous, claiming htat good people existed and could exist with out his teachings because they already knew the teachings. I take a very philosphical approach to Christianity and it suits me well. It doesn't have to suit you.
^ i've been saying from the longest of times... the qu'ran does not state things in black and white. it does not call a spade a spade, if it did, then there wouldnt be such debate over womens rights.
the bible is actually very strict in it's teachings aswell, one example is; if you are married, and you look around at other women erotically, remove the eye you look at them with, if you steal, remove the hand you steal with. it is plain and clear.
what i will never understand, is the whole dividing up assets stuff in case of death. there is nothing about dividing assets up in the bible, because dividing up assets is not important, what do you think assets mean to God ? everybody knows you cant take possessions to the afterlife. what is the point in putting such things in a book supposedly of the word of god ? they could have just made that an arabic law or whatever... but including it in a 'holy' document ?
i am not trying to convert you. i respond simply to indicate that where you suggest there are questions there are actually answers. i respond for completeness sake. for the record, i have no problem at all with you being a christian. i don't believe that people can be told what to do, people seek and they find. i am not telling you to convert, i am illustrating the misconceptions in your concerns.
my realm is infinite. you have made statements that were clear misconceptions and those were addressable.i present cold hard facts.
the bible is presented as a history and the actual accuracy of that history is debated; the meaning largely has to be inferred. the new testament suffers slightly less from this the old. the quran is presented as instructions with historical references. these are the facts.
you can structure your marriage however your wish. you could cede all the power to your wife. the point is not to create a strict law; the point is to create a mode of thinking. in countless scriptures throughout the quran there will be instruction and then a fallback position, and possibly another fallback position. it provides a structure, it provides a mode of thinking. the quran states directly "there is no obligation in religion". if you want to cede authority to your wife 50/50 or 0/100 this is not some sort inherent sin on it's own. it would depend on your own rationale. ofcourse being the man it is your decision whether or not to cede the authority, but it is something that you could do.
you have this idea about islam that in many ways is misguided. the quran is not incompatible with the sorts of notions you put forward. there is actually alot of debate in the muslim world about the issue of women's rights and shari'a law for example. in iran the younger generations have been pushing towards more liberal interpretations of shari'a law. in palestine there had been some backlash when hamas took over as to whether hamas would try to impose a more strict form of shari'a law and force women to wear hijabs...there are liberal muslims, there are feminist muslims...etc. your criticisms here are misguided. while the quran is accepted as the word of god, some of the quran is actually contextual, making direct references to situations that were immediately relevant at the time. this is also allows for some of the malleability.
i maintain that religion has more to offer than just morality. religion also tries to impart wisdom, knowledge and truth. this is far different than simple morality.i
. I strongly believe that a woman lead household, ;where the woman can have the final say
I don't think you are trying to convert me. I just know you can't answer questions that can't be answered any anyone. I choose to belive this and you choose to believe that.
I never implied that any of this is true, but I can't prove any of this isn't. I'm not God, and have never met God, and can't begin to understand what he is capable of being and doing.
Why did I portray it as such. What Jesus is or was before he entered the body of the baby born to Mary is not clearly explain. The Gospel of John states that it was the word of God that entered the body, and that the word came from God and was God at the same time. What that means exactly is anybody's guess and can be interpreted in different ways. It makes enough sense to me for me to believe it and I do.
It's not about whether I could if I wanted to but whether she could if she wanted to and the type of God I want to believe in. I don't agree with that and that's just how I feel.