Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Easter?
WestCoasta:
haha, Infinite providing more reasons why he's a loser
his last post proved my previous post to be correct... he's just some lost confused bastard who got pissed at life and thinks to make it better he shall worship the almighty creator, and a better life awaits him
ey man, whatever turns you on, have fun wasting ur life, and I'll have fun wasting mine in your eyes
:firedevil: Satan is THA man
WestCoasta:
how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?
I'm kinda curious
BizzyR.I.P.:
--- Quote from: We$t Coa$t on April 19, 2006, 10:29:16 PM ---how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?
I'm kinda curious
--- End quote ---
Shits uncountable
Sikotic™:
--- Quote from: ZILLA THE GOODFELLA on April 19, 2006, 05:04:35 PM ---
And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.
--- End quote ---
All you gotta do is look at history to figure that out.
You don't have to agree with other's religions or beliefs, but at least RESPECT them. It's not that I'm scared or a pussy, I just do it out of respect. I still respect the ideas and purpose of the religion even if I don't believe in it. I don't agree with lots of the ideas and practices of Islam, but you'll never see me come up in here and tell you how I believe the religion is bogus. Never have, never will. You can't point it out because it doesn't exist. As long as a religion have positive teachings, I'm all for it.
That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.
nibs:
--- Quote from: ZILLA THE GOODFELLA on April 19, 2006, 05:04:35 PM ---All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what.
--- End quote ---
zilla, you say things that are both insightful and yet also contradictory.
the world as a whole seems to be in a state of spiritual and conscious decline, as people across the world are living in impractical and unnatural communities and arrangements.
look first at your argument for the benefits for easter: you argued along the lines of strengthening the family bond. religion as an excuse to strengthen the family. you conceded that society pushes people away from spending time together, and now religion was having the effect of repairing that.
your argument is a condemnation of society; and an illustration of how a holiday with questionable origins has further lost it's religious value. a religious holiday that serves a function other than something religious or spiritual? to use your words...what's the point? isn't that what thanksgiving is for? any holiday can do that.
additionally, religion across cultures has acted to establish and repair a communal identity, the notion that all people were equal before god and should love each other...etc. religion serves to broaden ones identity beyond the boundaries of the family. now you argue that the value of religion is in repairing the family identity. this is yet another condemnation at how self-centered and selfish society and the human consciousness have become. if people use religion to focus on the family, when do they actually focus on their spirituality? surely all bases need to be covered. this is a problem that your argument identifies.
there is some contradiction in your statements as you have identified and acknowledged several problems, but at the same time you adorn america with praise. it's that mindset of the american dream, of capitalism and competition; that largely contributes to the selfish individualistic perspective and destroys that sense of community that religion characterizes. you can praise america for it's wealth, but to praise american values in a thread about christian holidays seems contradictory as american values are almost inherently anti-christian. they are mutually exclusive.
you touched on an interesting point with your example of muslims "raised as muslims without an appreciation for islam". there is a sense of irony there as qu'ran states directly "do not follow the traditions of your parents blindly without questioning it"; while those were passages ultimately comdemning the practice of idolatry, the same principles would apply to whatever belief system; mechanically following one's parents without a genuine appreciation for those beliefs and their purpose is of questionable value. the qu'ran also suggests it isn't until a person is mature (40 years old) that they can really be expected to appreciate life, purpose...etc. so the very arguments and situations you discuss are supported and predicted within the qu'ran as well.
at the same time, as you hinted this same condemnation applies to christianity. you could easily make the same arguments against individuals growing up in christian households, having an idea of "right and wrong" as expressed by the faith; but still lacking a genuine appreciation for it. and just as you ask: "what's the point of a fake muslim?" what's the point of a fake christian or fake religious holidays? it's like an iced out jesus piece in many ways; maybe it looks nice; but it's function bears no resemblence to the origin of it's purpose and symbolism.
infinite identified a problem, used easter as an example of this problem; and proposed a solution (islam)
you have assaulted his solution but in many ways conceded the existance of the problem. your comments seem more of a condemnation of society than a ringing endorsement of the easter holiday.
--- Quote ---If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower?
--- End quote ---
i don't know that that is a fair assessment. no religion expects it's followers to be without sin. the qu'ran mentions a similar debate over whether to use the term muslim vs mu'men.
sura 49:14
The Arabs of the desert say, `We believe.' Say, `You have not truly believed yet, but rather say, `We have submitted, for true faith has not yet entered into your hearts.' But if you obey ALLAH and HIS Messenger, HE will not detract anything from your deeds. Surely, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
but i don't think your point was the labels people apply or associate themselves with, but what good simply associating oneself with such a label actually does.
--- Quote ---A person like me truely believes that I won't go to hell for drinking, smokin and having relations with females. I truely believe I will go to heaven because I have a good heart and have been to places where I could have turned into a psycho just like the people I was riding with, but it was my good heart that turned me around after making so many mistakes. Does that make sense?
--- End quote ---
one problem with religion is the strictness and absoluteness in the portrayal of punishment and reward. i am more inclined to believe that life and existence is a progression. similarly the qu'ran states that there are varying levels of reward; which also implies progression and graduation. greater reward reflects being closer to god. also; the idea of varying degrees of reward should dissuade all from questioning how sincere a muslim or christian or whatever is. each will be rewarded or punished what they deserve.
now, you state that you believe in heaven; yet you get to make up the criteria for heaven on your own? that's a very convenient arrangement. your conjecture could be correct; it's also possible that you are incorrect, and the requirements for heaven are a little more strict than you think. who knows? another purpose of religion is to provide a little guidance in resolving issues like that. which is why i find the notion of a religious holiday with no religious function to be a little amusing. heaven itself is a largely religious/spiritual idea; the notion that you could determine the rules on your own without guidance sounds very similar to the heroin addicts you describe thinking they are okay because they pray five times a day. maybe they are, maybe they aren't. i agree with your theory that it is what is in a person's heart that matters most; at the same time surely they would still benefit from appropriate guidance.
your argument as a whole is slightly contradictory as you excuse easter because people do get some good out of it (outside of religion); then you turn around and identify people who don't take religion seriously enough and suggest they suffer as a result...so which way is it? should people take religion seriously or not?
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