Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
The Official Professional Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, etc.)
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Young Jizz on April 13, 2013, 11:10:56 PM ---i agree the only person i think the only person they are pushing good right now is Ryback, they started him off as this unstoppable face who got over with the kids, then proved he could lose, and is now giving him a run as a heel against Cena which will get him over with the adult fans, all he has to work on now is his mic skills
then you got people like Ziggler and Ryder
Ziggler should of been champion a long time ago or should of atleast had a lengthy interconinental title rune, but instead they make him job and give him the strap without really ever beating anyone, which makes him hard to be a "credible" champion... but Ziggler has everything going for him from the looks, to mic skills to in ring ability, its just how he holds the strap is whats really gonna make him
then you got Ryder who was the most over new superstar last year and they did shit with him, they make him look like as ass with AJ, they milked his gimmick but never got a real push, if he did he would be a top draw for sure atleast in the US title or Intercontinental title aspect, now for him to really be a credible guy he'd have to drop the stupid gimmick that made him and just be himself kind of like what Stone cold/ Rock did... which will either make him or break him, until then he will always just be another gimmick wrestler
being a fan i guess you just have to accept that things arent like they are back in the golden days and just enjoy it for what it is now
--- End quote ---
I couldn't even put faces to the names you mentioned so I can't judge their pushes.
As for the way it was to how it used to be, I get the one fundemental change that makes it harder to know who to push; in the territory days you knew for sure that the guy you want to put a rocket on will get over because he had already gotten over in different markets, big markets, as opposed to getting over in OVW or ROH.
Hogan was a bonafide star before he came back to the WWF. He showed that in AWA. There was little risk involved in taking the belt off of Backlund to give to Hogan. Hogan was already a much bigger draw. And they used Shiek as the middle man because they understood common sense that Backlund still had a large amount of NorthEast fans and you didn't want any resentment carrying over. (Something they forgot huge with Warrior 7 years later).
Looking at it closely Vince was never a long term thinker, or even a sound one. The early WWF days were ran in large part by Jim Barnett and Goerge Scott, the best promotor and booker respectively in the business, and they did so as a favour to Vince Sr. Vince really took what they built and ran it into the ground. Then he got lucky selling smut TV in the Jerry Springer era for 2 to 3 years.
He took the big leap and ran the waves well. I Won't take all credit away from him. It was his vision and he deserves the credit for that. But as far as promoting and booking he made so many ridiculous moves over the years he's lucky the competition was simpy that much stupider.
I mean the amount of times over the years he flushed money down the toilet to statisfy his own ego; First by not running with Hogan vs Flair, then by letting Vader flop right out of the gate, then the WCW invasion angle, then RVD, and then Goldberg vs Austin.
These events pretty much write themselves. All you have to do is not go out of your way to screw it up, and he did so every time.
And even when his ego isn't in question, and it's a guy that became a star under him, he still pulls the rug out from under them at the worst times. I remember Shelton BEnjamin a few years back about to get over huge fueding with Evolution. The crowd was really getting behind him. So Vince squashed him a few times and then took him off TV.
But I don't assume Shleton would have become the next Rock or Austin. However I remember watching a Rumble a few years back and CM Punk was the first guy in, and the room I was watching it in was filled with either old time fans who didn't know him, or non fans, but they were really getting behind the guy. The stage was set for him to win the Rumble, and I garauntee everyone in that room and across America would have been anticipating seeing him at Mania to the point where word of mouth would have really made a differece. Instead they dump him out mid way through the Rumble and that's it.
My friends told me that since then they built him to the top, but now I hear he lost to Taker at Mania. What a joke that is. Yeah I get the Taker legacy of being undefeated at Mania. I also remember the Andre legacy, although false, of never being pinned. Can you imagine if he had beaten Hogan at WM3?
At the very least, you can keep the streak going by having Taker go over perrenial mid-carders or old stars. You don't bury the new guys, that you want to push, to put over a guy you don't sell anymore.
It's the equivolent of Ford putting out a 2014 Mustang commercial where the 2014 Mustang loses a race to the 1965 Mustang. It's simply bad marketing and bad economics, and it's something you learn in the 101 classes of each of those subjects.
But like I said, it's a genre of entertainment that will always have fans and as long as the competition is avoiding the basic rulers of business more than Vince is, the WWE will be on top. But the heap is getting smaller and smaller, so being on top of it means less and less.
midwestryder:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 14, 2013, 09:34:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Young Jizz on April 13, 2013, 11:10:56 PM ---i agree the only person i think the only person they are pushing good right now is Ryback, they started him off as this unstoppable face who got over with the kids, then proved he could lose, and is now giving him a run as a heel against Cena which will get him over with the adult fans, all he has to work on now is his mic skills
then you got people like Ziggler and Ryder
Ziggler should of been champion a long time ago or should of atleast had a lengthy interconinental title rune, but instead they make him job and give him the strap without really ever beating anyone, which makes him hard to be a "credible" champion... but Ziggler has everything going for him from the looks, to mic skills to in ring ability, its just how he holds the strap is whats really gonna make him
then you got Ryder who was the most over new superstar last year and they did shit with him, they make him look like as ass with AJ, they milked his gimmick but never got a real push, if he did he would be a top draw for sure atleast in the US title or Intercontinental title aspect, now for him to really be a credible guy he'd have to drop the stupid gimmick that made him and just be himself kind of like what Stone cold/ Rock did... which will either make him or break him, until then he will always just be another gimmick wrestler
being a fan i guess you just have to accept that things arent like they are back in the golden days and just enjoy it for what it is now
--- End quote ---
I couldn't even put faces to the names you mentioned so I can't judge their pushes.
As for the way it was to how it used to be, I get the one fundemental change that makes it harder to know who to push; in the territory days you knew for sure that the guy you want to put a rocket on will get over because he had already gotten over in different markets, big markets, as opposed to getting over in OVW or ROH.
Hogan was a bonafide star before he came back to the WWF. He showed that in AWA. There was little risk involved in taking the belt off of Backlund to give to Hogan. Hogan was already a much bigger draw. And they used Shiek as the middle man because they understood common sense that Backlund still had a large amount of NorthEast fans and you didn't want any resentment carrying over. (Something they forgot huge with Warrior 7 years later).
Looking at it closely Vince was never a long term thinker, or even a sound one. The early WWF days were ran in large part by Jim Barnett and Goerge Scott, the best promotor and booker respectively in the business, and they did so as a favour to Vince Sr. Vince really took what they built and ran it into the ground. Then he got lucky selling smut TV in the Jerry Springer era for 2 to 3 years.
He took the big leap and ran the waves well. I Won't take all credit away from him. It was his vision and he deserves the credit for that. But as far as promoting and booking he made so many ridiculous moves over the years he's lucky the competition was simpy that much stupider.
I mean the amount of times over the years he flushed money down the toilet to statisfy his own ego; First by not running with Hogan vs Flair, then by letting Vader flop right out of the gate, then the WCW invasion angle, then RVD, and then Goldberg vs Austin.
These events pretty much write themselves. All you have to do is not go out of your way to screw it up, and he did so every time.
And even when his ego isn't in question, and it's a guy that became a star under him, he still pulls the rug out from under them at the worst times. I remember Shelton BEnjamin a few years back about to get over huge fueding with Evolution. The crowd was really getting behind him. So Vince squashed him a few times and then took him off TV.
But I don't assume Shleton would have become the next Rock or Austin. However I remember watching a Rumble a few years back and CM Punk was the first guy in, and the room I was watching it in was filled with either old time fans who didn't know him, or non fans, but they were really getting behind the guy. The stage was set for him to win the Rumble, and I garauntee everyone in that room and across America would have been anticipating seeing him at Mania to the point where word of mouth would have really made a differece. Instead they dump him out mid way through the Rumble and that's it.
My friends told me that since then they built him to the top, but now I hear he lost to Taker at Mania. What a joke that is. Yeah I get the Taker legacy of being undefeated at Mania. I also remember the Andre legacy, although false, of never being pinned. Can you imagine if he had beaten Hogan at WM3?
At the very least, you can keep the streak going by having Taker go over perrenial mid-carders or old stars. You don't bury the new guys, that you want to push, to put over a guy you don't sell anymore.
It's the equivolent of Ford putting out a 2014 Mustang commercial where the 2014 Mustang loses a race to the 1965 Mustang. It's simply bad marketing and bad economics, and it's something you learn in the 101 classes of each of those subjects.
But like I said, it's a genre of entertainment that will always have fans and as long as the competition is avoiding the basic rulers of business more than Vince is, the WWE will be on top. But the heap is getting smaller and smaller, so being on top of it means less and less.
--- End quote ---
sorry but you are wrong & have no clue what you are talking about . one shelton bejamin killed his own push not vince . shelton nerver gave his all in the ring & that was his down fall . cm punk is no new guy . cm punk is longest WWe champion in this era . cm punk did not get buried by undertaker . you don't even know what buried means in wrestling by how you are talking . Undertaker still out sells the whole WWe roster. no the heap i s not getting smaller at all. you just not up on wrestling or indie wrestling .
Hack Wilson - real:
wrestling is 4 red necks
O.G A.Geesta'z:
yeah bro you kind of have no valid arguement if you dont even watch todays wrestling... i mean we can sit here all day and talk about how good wrestling use to be back in the days but but if you dont know thats going on today you cant really compare then and now..
and Taker should never lose the streak because its bad for business... Everyone is going to keep wanting to see who Taker will fight next, and Punk wasnt buried by Taker, im pretty sure if Vince was like "Punk your beating Taker clean and defeating the streak" Punk being the humble guy that he is would probably decline doing it anyways... he has alot of respect for old school wrestlers and is a really humble guy
Im pretty sure Punk is going to have a really good push when he comes back after his break he is taking from all his nagging injuries, Punks work ethic is your modern day Bret Hart/Shawn Micheals work ethic back in the day, always puts quality matches and is a work horse...
Once they bring him back im hoping he starts a fued with Ziggler or Daniel Bryan because those guys are the best technical wrestlers right now and have classics waiting to happen
UKnowWhatItIs: welcome to my traps....game over:
^lol at Punk being humble.. This guy thought his shit didn't stink way back when he was in TNA. Its a known fact he ranks himself higher than other wrestlers & is super cocky hence the line "best in the world".
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