Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Question for all Muslims!
Merovingian:
--- Quote from: sonofisis on December 19, 2006, 09:30:19 PM ---Ok, from my understanding Muslim people don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.. They continuously deny his crucifixion and claim that he was of the flesh, a mere mortal and nothing more than a prophet.. Yet, at the same time Muslims do admit that Christ was born of immaculate conception and came str8 from the father. It took me a while to find a contradiction in Islam but I did with out even having to pick up a Koran! It is so blatant and obvious. This is my question to all Muslims and those who have some knowledge of the Koranic and Biblical scripture.
Man was born into Sin because of the deeds of our ancestors Adam and Eve correct? For this reason we are all cursed with Sin and have to either over come it through belief in Christ(the Christian way) or through submission to Allah's will(the Islamic way) correct? So if you believe this, can you agree that Christ wasn't of Sin since he was not of Adam? And how can Christ not be the Son Of God if he had no earthly father? Who's son was he then? I don't understand the Islamic teachings, what are they trying to say? Wouldn't it be more logical to just accept that Christ was the Son Of God then to assume that he just didn't have a father? If you believe that the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's seed, wouldn't that make God his literal father? It would of made more sense if Muslims simply denied Jesus' immaculate birth, then you might have a flawless religion on your hands. But in this aspect everything falls apart because this is the basis of Islam that sets it apart from Christianity.
--- End quote ---
You need to step outside of that box you're in. There was no immaculate conception and no virgin birth. Christianity and Islamic teachings are no different in that they are BOTH based on the perceptions of other men and not some divine inspiration.
sonofisis:
--- Quote from: Merovingian on December 20, 2006, 03:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: sonofisis on December 19, 2006, 09:30:19 PM ---Ok, from my understanding Muslim people don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.. They continuously deny his crucifixion and claim that he was of the flesh, a mere mortal and nothing more than a prophet.. Yet, at the same time Muslims do admit that Christ was born of immaculate conception and came str8 from the father. It took me a while to find a contradiction in Islam but I did with out even having to pick up a Koran! It is so blatant and obvious. This is my question to all Muslims and those who have some knowledge of the Koranic and Biblical scripture.
Man was born into Sin because of the deeds of our ancestors Adam and Eve correct? For this reason we are all cursed with Sin and have to either over come it through belief in Christ(the Christian way) or through submission to Allah's will(the Islamic way) correct? So if you believe this, can you agree that Christ wasn't of Sin since he was not of Adam? And how can Christ not be the Son Of God if he had no earthly father? Who's son was he then? I don't understand the Islamic teachings, what are they trying to say? Wouldn't it be more logical to just accept that Christ was the Son Of God then to assume that he just didn't have a father? If you believe that the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's seed, wouldn't that make God his literal father? It would of made more sense if Muslims simply denied Jesus' immaculate birth, then you might have a flawless religion on your hands. But in this aspect everything falls apart because this is the basis of Islam that sets it apart from Christianity.
--- End quote ---
You need to step outside of that box you're in. There was no immaculate conception and no virgin birth. Christianity and Islamic teachings are no different in that they are BOTH based on the perceptions of other men and not some divine inspiration.
--- End quote ---
JML, I'll respond to you in one second.. @ Merovigian, how the hell am I stuck in a box? Are you serious or was this the wittiest line that you could come up with? If anything I'm trying to expand my perception of Islam by asking questions, what type of idiot are you for that statement? So I guess the 1.6 Billion Christians world wide are stuck in a box also? And mind you, I'm not a Christian! You look like an asshole when you assume..
J @ M @ L:
This is just something interesting I noticed:
(Genesis 17:3) "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him saying..."
(Joshua 5:14) "...And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..."
(1 Samuel 20:41) "...(David fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times..."
(Numbers 14:5) "...Moses and Aaron fell on their faces..."
(1 Kings 18:39) "...they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God"
(Matthew 26:39) "And he(Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..."
All praying and worshipping God in the same way Muslims have been instructed to.
J @ M @ L:
--- Quote from: sonofisis on December 20, 2006, 03:54:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: Merovingian on December 20, 2006, 03:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: sonofisis on December 19, 2006, 09:30:19 PM ---Ok, from my understanding Muslim people don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.. They continuously deny his crucifixion and claim that he was of the flesh, a mere mortal and nothing more than a prophet.. Yet, at the same time Muslims do admit that Christ was born of immaculate conception and came str8 from the father. It took me a while to find a contradiction in Islam but I did with out even having to pick up a Koran! It is so blatant and obvious. This is my question to all Muslims and those who have some knowledge of the Koranic and Biblical scripture.
Man was born into Sin because of the deeds of our ancestors Adam and Eve correct? For this reason we are all cursed with Sin and have to either over come it through belief in Christ(the Christian way) or through submission to Allah's will(the Islamic way) correct? So if you believe this, can you agree that Christ wasn't of Sin since he was not of Adam? And how can Christ not be the Son Of God if he had no earthly father? Who's son was he then? I don't understand the Islamic teachings, what are they trying to say? Wouldn't it be more logical to just accept that Christ was the Son Of God then to assume that he just didn't have a father? If you believe that the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's seed, wouldn't that make God his literal father? It would of made more sense if Muslims simply denied Jesus' immaculate birth, then you might have a flawless religion on your hands. But in this aspect everything falls apart because this is the basis of Islam that sets it apart from Christianity.
--- End quote ---
You need to step outside of that box you're in. There was no immaculate conception and no virgin birth. Christianity and Islamic teachings are no different in that they are BOTH based on the perceptions of other men and not some divine inspiration.
--- End quote ---
JML, I'll respond to you in one second.. @ Merovigian, how the hell am I stuck in a box? Are you serious or was this the wittiest line that you could come up with? If anything I'm trying to expand my perception of Islam by asking questions, what type of idiot are you for that statement? So I guess the 1.6 million Christians world wide are stuck in a box also? And mind you, I'm not a Christian! You look like an asshole when you assume..
--- End quote ---
Dont mind our good friend, Meningitis... he's not telling you to step outside of a box because you're asking questions about Islam... but rather because he thinks people are dumb for following any of these religions... that's his opinion, which is fine.
sonofisis:
--- Quote from: JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel on December 20, 2006, 03:42:06 PM ---1. A prophet spreading God's word.
2. You said it yourself... the trinity is hard to explain logically... it's illogical and contradicting.
3. That was exactly what I was trying to point out... that the Bible contradicts itself. You ask why Islam is "selective"... think about it, this is common sense... if you admit that the Bible contradicts itself (and I'm going to stick to the idea of the trinity when we're speaking here and nothing else), and all the other prophets delivered the message of "ONE GOD", why would Islam focus and accept those quotes saying Jesus is God (which contradict other quotes to begin with)? You have to look at several things here. Most importantly, the holy scriptures are full of metaphors, and things are often lost in translation. In addition, historically we can see the manipulation of the bible. You quoted the Book of John there, the church doesn't even know who this was written by... so what's divine about it? The Qur'an simply reaffirms the same message that been brought to the people before by all the other prophets.... worshipping none other than God. Basically, if you already agree that the Bible is contradicting, there really is no point in taking this any further... the idea of God contradicting himself is ridiculous.
Even in the Bible we read that Jews have transformed the true message of God:
(Jeremiah 8:8) "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" - NIV Bible
The same quote from The Revised Standard Version (since there are so many different versions of this "divine" book) "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie."
4. Muhammad was a prophet and messenger just like all the others before him... a mortal man just like they were. Your next question is really an irrational one. Why would you ask ME why God waited 600 years? It's not like God had delivered the wrong message to all the prophets before Muhammad, the message was simply distorted, manipulated, which is evident in the Bible's contradictions and falsehoods.
(The Qur'an 5:60) "Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from God? those who incurred the curse of God and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
- if you read the whole verse/chapter, this is in reference to the people's defiance during Moses' time.
Now compare it to this in the Bible (also referring to the punishment of those during Moses' time):
(Numbers 14:10-12) "But the whole assembly talked about stoning them. Then the glory of the LORD appeared at the Tent of Meeting to all the Israelites. The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them? I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they."
(Numbers 14:22-24) "not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times- not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it. But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it."
(Numbers 16:29-30) "If these men die a natural death and experience only what usually happens to men, then the LORD has not sent me. But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know that these men have treated the LORD with contempt."
--since we know that the Bible has been misinterpreted, and the fact that both scriptures contain many metaphorical representation... it can be concluded that both are referring to pretty much the same thing, and the difference in wording can be ascribed to many different things... for example, what if God really did turn them into apes and swines... since they were no longer to be seen, people assumed that they simply disappeared...even today we use the phrase "did the earth open up and swallow them?" when we talk about someone we haven't seen in a long time.
As for the hadiths... they're accounts by different people, some true, some false (kinda like the Bible)...and don't supercede the Qur'an. I can easily pull numerous quotes from the Bible that can be considered racist, even showing Jesus as being racist (which is another thing Muslims consider to be falsehood in the Bible), etc... I don't know what it is that you're specifically asking at the end there... so if you have any further questions just let me know... and I'm not trying to have you convert ,nor am I trying to bash Christianity... I admire the true, core beliefs and ideals of the faith, but simply believe, or know rather, that the scripture has been corrupted.
--- End quote ---
Nice! Bruh, I commend you and I have to admit that I've been struggling with religion period for a while now, going back and fourth on if I should be Christian or Muslim, so I went around challenging each scripture, and every Muslim I ask basically has a flawless answer. Even debates I've watched from Ahmed Deedat and Dr. Zakir Naik.. Honestly I was trying my hardest to pick holes through Islam because I'm scared of not accepting Christ, everyone (Christians) swears that this is the only means by which to attain salvation.. I was so confused that I denied Christ and accepted him again all in the same night the other day simply out of fear.. But my mind is getting clearer and I thank you for your help(though you may not of known you were helping me)... I will also consult someone at the Mosque but as of now I think that I'm leaning toward Islam..
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