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first a couple questionshow much did illmatic sell?what was the name of the hitt song dre produced for the end of the forgot about dre video?what is nas talking about when he says on hustlers that him and dre were collaborating before the firm happened, has anyone heard these collabs he's referring to? cause 'nas is coming' the earliest that I know of is on the same album as 'affirmative action' thus going against such a statement.Now, my thoughts...I feel that what Dre and Nas were trying to do with the firm was like gangsta rap but intellectually elevated from the street brutality DR was known for. It was still crime, but it was organized crime (big weight drug deals, feds tapping the phones, planes to all over the world). Still street, but street smart. Not just sex driven but sexy and sophisticated. Funky and classy, they even found ways to mix G funk with Godfather style mafioso music, really intelligent and artistically inspired shit but not a money winning combination for those who ain't listening cause a) the average music listener isn't necessarily a godather fan b) Gangsta rap fans would find it too "uppity" c) Backpack rap fans/Lyrical heads would find it to be too gangsta....so the only people who are really getting it are Nas' hardcore base, dre's base, and Godfather fans who like gangsta rap. That said, even though firm sold platinum people consider it a failure cause expectations for nas and dre were so ridiculous, I consider it an artistic success that went over the heads of the mainstream (at least alot of the dre stuff, i liked one or two of the trackmasters produced firm stuff). I consider what Nas and dre were doing to be like gangsta rap but elevated above the thuggishness-Mafioso Rap. It's a shame it didn't blow up, the lyrical potential was enormous, it could have changed the game if it didn't go over people's heads. imagine that, imagine the kinda shit we'da heard kurupt spit by now if that genre got big? The Game wouldn't even be here(I like Game, but just an observation).This concept is the same reason i think Hittman doesn't have the artistic potential as Bishopa)Hittman is a big guy, harder to market. MTV and those channels get more shallow every year, it's not the same climate Biggie blew up in, plus you have to take into account that as much as paparazzi hounded people back in the 90's now not only is there all the same coverage as before but now there's cribs and other reality shows so you're on camera 24/7, MTV's gonna want solely conventionally attractive people on their shows.b) Hittman's flow/style is very unique but if you're not listening right/don't like his particular thing he's not very accessible. dude is sick but his shit was way too....sway-y is the best way i can put it, to blow up universally, he has so much sophisticated style and lyrics he's a rapper's rapper.c) his style was also very mafioso rap, probably over the heads of the commercial market.whereas Bishop lamont with stuff like "translator" is in a PERFECT position to progress the ideas Nas is bringing to the forefront with 'hip hop is dead', bishop is a conventionally attractive dude so he will get video play, a more straight forward style and voice (but still very skilled for sure) and it's not gangsta but it is west coast which is EXACTLY what the west coast needs. I talk to alot of people about music alot and most rap fans I talk to living out here in CA that aren't listening to the west coast always tell me that they're tired of the gangster shit and that's why they don't check for long beach and shit like that on the shelves anymore.-T
Quote from: Tanjibility-The West Coast Rap Amnesiac on February 07, 2007, 10:06:03 AMfirst a couple questionshow much did illmatic sell?what was the name of the hitt song dre produced for the end of the forgot about dre video?what is nas talking about when he says on hustlers that him and dre were collaborating before the firm happened, has anyone heard these collabs he's referring to? cause 'nas is coming' the earliest that I know of is on the same album as 'affirmative action' thus going against such a statement.Now, my thoughts...I feel that what Dre and Nas were trying to do with the firm was like gangsta rap but intellectually elevated from the street brutality DR was known for. It was still crime, but it was organized crime (big weight drug deals, feds tapping the phones, planes to all over the world). Still street, but street smart. Not just sex driven but sexy and sophisticated. Funky and classy, they even found ways to mix G funk with Godfather style mafioso music, really intelligent and artistically inspired shit but not a money winning combination for those who ain't listening cause a) the average music listener isn't necessarily a godather fan b) Gangsta rap fans would find it too "uppity" c) Backpack rap fans/Lyrical heads would find it to be too gangsta....so the only people who are really getting it are Nas' hardcore base, dre's base, and Godfather fans who like gangsta rap. That said, even though firm sold platinum people consider it a failure cause expectations for nas and dre were so ridiculous, I consider it an artistic success that went over the heads of the mainstream (at least alot of the dre stuff, i liked one or two of the trackmasters produced firm stuff). I consider what Nas and dre were doing to be like gangsta rap but elevated above the thuggishness-Mafioso Rap. It's a shame it didn't blow up, the lyrical potential was enormous, it could have changed the game if it didn't go over people's heads. imagine that, imagine the kinda shit we'da heard kurupt spit by now if that genre got big? The Game wouldn't even be here(I like Game, but just an observation).This concept is the same reason i think Hittman doesn't have the artistic potential as Bishopa)Hittman is a big guy, harder to market. MTV and those channels get more shallow every year, it's not the same climate Biggie blew up in, plus you have to take into account that as much as paparazzi hounded people back in the 90's now not only is there all the same coverage as before but now there's cribs and other reality shows so you're on camera 24/7, MTV's gonna want solely conventionally attractive people on their shows.b) Hittman's flow/style is very unique but if you're not listening right/don't like his particular thing he's not very accessible. dude is sick but his shit was way too....sway-y is the best way i can put it, to blow up universally, he has so much sophisticated style and lyrics he's a rapper's rapper.c) his style was also very mafioso rap, probably over the heads of the commercial market.whereas Bishop lamont with stuff like "translator" is in a PERFECT position to progress the ideas Nas is bringing to the forefront with 'hip hop is dead', bishop is a conventionally attractive dude so he will get video play, a more straight forward style and voice (but still very skilled for sure) and it's not gangsta but it is west coast which is EXACTLY what the west coast needs. I talk to alot of people about music alot and most rap fans I talk to living out here in CA that aren't listening to the west coast always tell me that they're tired of the gangster shit and that's why they don't check for long beach and shit like that on the shelves anymore.-TNas sold a mil with IllmaticI don't think that was a song at first, at was like a interlude beat that Hit was spittin on. Should have dropped that right after his single to kick off Hit's albumNas is Coming is what he is talking about. Probably that song is dated. Could have been in 1995 or sometime a little before the Firm was established. Might not have been before the original Firm but you have to remember they redid the group after Cormega had beef with Nas. Hittman would have blown up. EVERYONE Dre was dropping back then was doing well. He just did not do it.
True, but you never know until you put a artist out. Knocturnal was more affliated with Dre and that got him a deal with Elektra. Elektra expected Dre to be very hands on with his project. King Tee was never put out. My feeling is you never know until you try and put a artist out there. I ain't saying that King Tee would have went plat, but gold was manageable. Dre went with the Eminem momentum after 2001. Dre cannot focus on more than 1 artist. He gives his all to 1 and half or nothing to the rest.
Quote from: d-nice on February 07, 2007, 10:44:26 AMTrue, but you never know until you put a artist out. Knocturnal was more affliated with Dre and that got him a deal with Elektra. Elektra expected Dre to be very hands on with his project. King Tee was never put out. My feeling is you never know until you try and put a artist out there. I ain't saying that King Tee would have went plat, but gold was manageable. Dre went with the Eminem momentum after 2001. Dre cannot focus on more than 1 artist. He gives his all to 1 and half or nothing to the rest.true....but thy kingdom come is up on allmusic.com with a cover and everything, says it was released by interscope but not AM, you sure it never got released?-T
that's so fucking whack, that album bangs.-T
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