It's May 23, 2024, 08:27:28 AM
To embrace traditional Islam is to be at war with your own sexual impulses. Consider, for example, Mohamend Atta, the man who led the 9/11 bombings.
He never had sex. He was repelled by images of nudity, even classic art paintings. His will instructed that his genitals not be touched during the preparation of his corpse, and that no women come near his grave.
First, it diminishes the joy of living. Erotic pleasure is a key element of human happiness. Our genes designed it that way. Remove that source of vitality, and life becomes mundane, dry, rigid. Killing your sexuality makes killing yourself much easier.
So Islam itself does not encourage a Muslim to be celibate like Catholocism does, but rather Islam understands the true nature of people is to engage intimately and only encourages that it is done under a true, stated and understood agreement of terms.
^Word. I understand what you saying about 'perspective', we on the same cloud on that one my man believe me, but tell me:Whats stopping all Islamic societies from adopting the same repressive standards like Saudi Arabia and Iran? What makes the difference between them countries and the more moderate ones like you mentioned like West Africa and Turkey? Before you reply, heres what I think, I think the difference is reflected in your post:Quote from: Abdul-Infinite Presents...Islam In Africa... on December 05, 2007, 09:16:01 PMSo Islam itself does not encourage a Muslim to be celibate like Catholocism does, but rather Islam understands the true nature of people is to engage intimately and only encourages that it is done under a true, stated and understood agreement of terms.Let me expalin, the fact is: Islam means different things to different people. People (muslim or otherwise) could easily argue that Islam's attitude on sex goes furthur than what you say. But what is important is what YOU, believe Islam to be. What is important is that you been blessed with the opportunity to discover what Islam means to you, for alot of other people this opportunity is hard to ever attain...I mean, violence breeds violence, but that aside, what about the London bombers or the Columbine kids? dudes who grown up in a Liberal society, tolerant country with bountiful opportunities for wealth and a good life, why did they decide to blown themselves up? Because they closed their minds off. You on the other-hand seek understanding, why else would you fucking bother going over to explore the World, why not just sit in your room your whole life reading the Koran? The difference between madness and sanity is but a few neurons in our brains.
But I want to be clear, I am talking about sexual relations not about war, bombs, and violence. You kind of added some comments about the London bombings and Columbine and those are seperate issues, I was only discussing sexuality and its relation to Islam and Muslim societies in my post above.
So anyway, aside from that, the difference between Saudi versus Turkey and West Africa I think is historical and cultural. Turkey has always been more loose... So their culture remained open and relaxed with or without Islam.
Word. Thanks mate. People are generally more down to Earth in real-life, it is afterall the internet. Quote from: Abdul-Infinite Presents...Islam In Africa... on December 05, 2007, 11:45:05 PMBut I want to be clear, I am talking about sexual relations not about war, bombs, and violence. You kind of added some comments about the London bombings and Columbine and those are seperate issues, I was only discussing sexuality and its relation to Islam and Muslim societies in my post above. ^LOL, you will find that with my posts, I roam. I believe language is simply a tool to convey what the mind feels. Sometimes explaining things with rational language in a methodic manner fails to get across the feelings one mind intends to communicate to another. Quote from: Abdul-Infinite Presents...Islam In Africa... on December 05, 2007, 11:45:05 PMSo anyway, aside from that, the difference between Saudi versus Turkey and West Africa I think is historical and cultural. Turkey has always been more loose... So their culture remained open and relaxed with or without Islam. ^Word. So you see Islam isn't a universal standard? And it is also self-contradictory when you look at it's application around the World right? Therefore its an illusion like Communism, Christianity, McDonalds and everything else that seeks to portray us the World. The real Islam to you is in your own understanding and the will to understand, rather than just to know. Thats why I suppose Muslims forbid the depiction of God or why Jews keep the name of God secret, because if you don't do that you are giving somebody something to know and you cannot know, only seek to understand. God has no religion.....Mahatma Gandhi. All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence....The Buddha's last words.
Right on. I laugh at muthafuckers like the Pope telling people not to have sex, the Popes a faggot and Islam is primitive, fuck what yall say. I like Islam, I like alot of things about it, Im generally down with Muslims. RECOGNISE, but it also is a huge load of steaming primitive shit and stupid people following it makes it no better. Seriously, how could the Neocons resist blaming a stunt like 9/11 on these idiots? Same way they did crack to the blacks.
Quote from: THE OVERFIEND on December 05, 2007, 08:12:19 PMRight on. I laugh at muthafuckers like the Pope telling people not to have sex, the Popes a faggot and Islam is primitive, fuck what yall say. I like Islam, I like alot of things about it, Im generally down with Muslims. RECOGNISE, but it also is a huge load of steaming primitive shit and stupid people following it makes it no better. Seriously, how could the Neocons resist blaming a stunt like 9/11 on these idiots? Same way they did crack to the blacks.co signyou still consider your self muslim bachem? or are you totally renouncing the faith?me, i still consider myself a muslim, i believe and i respect the faith,. but theres too much shit that i cant co sign.....
Lastly, Islam is a religion of no person, place, thing or time, but rather submission to the Creator... so do you feel like that has a similar theme to your Ghandi quote above?
And if Islam's universal application is a total allusion then how would you describe the very real joy a Muslim might feel in travelling for Hajj or travelling across the world and feeling brotherhood right away with a person they've never met because that person prays like he prays, and believes what he believes?
So are you saying that that is a good thing that Islam forbids a depiction of God, because it forces people to seek some internal understanding?
Or how would you regard those Muslims with ambitious claims that they are still today following the Prophet Muhammad's Islam and therefore they have held onto the Universal Standard he legislated?
Also, what about the time when the Prophet Muhammad was alive 1400 years ago and he was available to lay down a Universal standard for Islam that was understood and accepted.... how would you regard Islam at that time, would you agree it was a Universal standard at that time?
So your saying that you feel Islam itself is an allusion or are you saying that the idea that there is a universal standard or application for Islam is an allusion
However, my friend, the Islam of the world outside of your heart is very much a religion of a people (Muslims), a place (the Mosque), a thing (the black stone, relics and stuff inside the Kaaba) and a time ( you pray five times daily, my friend?). It is this Islam that is the illusion, not the Islam of your heart.
Now, how would you describe the brotherhood I feel after really getting to know this Sikh dude after a long time, or this Muslim girl or this other dude who don't even get down with religion? Mankind is my brotherhood, my friend. After-all, that’s the point, isn’t it?
Why do you have to pray in a certain direction, when God is in all directions?
Why must you even say a prayer outloud when God can hear it in your heart?
Why must you only feel that brotherhood with other Muslims?
Well, you cannot force people to seek understanding. Remember, these words; 'understanding' are just words, talk is cheap, they are only words Im using to describe something that is indescribable and elusive and who says words are the only vehicle? The mountains, the cosmos, they are all the 'word' of God. They only hint at something that only you as an individual can seek to discover for yourself, or not. You might find this in Islam, but if you only see it in Islam, then you have not really found anything, except another illusion.
Well, I believe Mohammad was a reluctant leader. He only picked up a sword because survival and his conscience demanded it. People came to murder him because of his beliefs, so he had to sling swords. If he were alive today, he would be down with me and agree with alot of what I said. I regard those 'Muslims with ambitious claims' as idiots quite frankly. They read the words, but don't bother to try and understand the meaning or the intent with any type of objectivity or criticism. Knowledge and Wisdom are two seperate things. Knowledge dosnt necessarily lead to Wisdom and Wisdom isn't necessarily Knowledge. The cold hard truth about the World is that, its entirely up to yourself to discover, its a climb you must make on your own, not to just wait for a cd-rom to be inserted in your brain in the form of a political ideology, earthly pleasures, or a Bible or a Koran. Thats the micro-chip, thats the real 666 mark of the Beast.
Well, it was the universal standard for Islam because it was the only standard for Islam. Even at that time, Islam meant different things to different people, because people's minds and hearts vary. But I see alot in what Mohammad intended as good and in tradition with alot of other people at the forefront of the true enlightenment movement like Osiris, Jesus, Buddha...it is these similar themes that hint at a universal truth, if ever there was one...
Out of Allah mercy, I speak these verses To help bring the truth from beneath the surface To help get the proof, from beneath the churches To defeat shading, and complete the circle -RZA, In The Name of Allah, off Cilvaringz' album, 1.