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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1</a>
Quote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 10:05:36 AM<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1</a>Man did he bury Muta. He always new how to make people sound like they sucked. Which may be why it took 7 years for the WWF to find a new star after Hogan fell off.He mentioned Inoki at the end and while world wide Hogan was the bigger star, no one comes close to Inoki in Japan. Take any athelete or movie star in the US now, then, whenever, and they weren't as big as Inoki was in Japan.
Quote from: Shallow on December 26, 2008, 10:42:53 AMQuote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 10:05:36 AM<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1</a>Man did he bury Muta. He always new how to make people sound like they sucked. Which may be why it took 7 years for the WWF to find a new star after Hogan fell off.He mentioned Inoki at the end and while world wide Hogan was the bigger star, no one comes close to Inoki in Japan. Take any athelete or movie star in the US now, then, whenever, and they weren't as big as Inoki was in Japan.Hogan has wrestled Inoki a few times in Japan, and got booed out the building. He played heel well. The Muta comment, I think was more of a work comment, but especially in 1993 when people still gave interviews in kayfabe, it was a complete bury.
Quote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 11:22:06 AMQuote from: Shallow on December 26, 2008, 10:42:53 AMQuote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 10:05:36 AM<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1</a>Man did he bury Muta. He always new how to make people sound like they sucked. Which may be why it took 7 years for the WWF to find a new star after Hogan fell off.He mentioned Inoki at the end and while world wide Hogan was the bigger star, no one comes close to Inoki in Japan. Take any athelete or movie star in the US now, then, whenever, and they weren't as big as Inoki was in Japan.Hogan has wrestled Inoki a few times in Japan, and got booed out the building. He played heel well. The Muta comment, I think was more of a work comment, but especially in 1993 when people still gave interviews in kayfabe, it was a complete bury. Yeah I've seen the Inoki matches. A lot of Hogan's Japan work was actually pretty good in terms of work rate. Obviously he was almost always the one being carried by better wrestlers but there's nothing wrong with that. No one ever expected Hogan to be a ring general. Yeah I know he wasn't shooting on Muta, but he didn't make him look like a contender at all. Hogan never could put anyone over. It just wasn't in his personality. And that worked fine between 84 and 89 when he wasn't supposed to put anyone over. The audience wanted a fearless superhero that no one could defeat. But in '90 when he basically kicked out of Warrior's pin, and pinned Sting with that "fast" count in 96, he really helped hurt the future business of each of those companies. In hindsight he never should have faced Warrior in a Wrestlemania match. The people were never going to fully accept the guy that beat their hero. They should have had them face off at Summerslam or Survivor Series and had it end with a run in of a new monster heel that would end up giving Hogan a "career ending" injury, and then have Warrior take the belt off of that guy. It could have been Sid, but Vader was already over in Japan and could play the role perfectly. Warrior over Vader at Wrestlemania 6 may not have drawn the same short term money of Hogan/Warrior, but it would have stretched out a longer feud and have kept Warrior a more likable face. In the end he may have self destructed anyway, and then they could have turned Warrior heel for Hogan's return in WM7. All in all it would have made more money, I think.Also, I know Hogan technically put Brock over a few years back, but let's be honest. That was all Brock picking up a winded Hogan that was sand bagging all night and turning himself into a star, especially with that blood sash.
Quote from: Shallow on December 26, 2008, 12:22:38 PMQuote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 11:22:06 AMQuote from: Shallow on December 26, 2008, 10:42:53 AMQuote from: M Dogg on December 26, 2008, 10:05:36 AM<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en&fs=1</a>Man did he bury Muta. He always new how to make people sound like they sucked. Which may be why it took 7 years for the WWF to find a new star after Hogan fell off.He mentioned Inoki at the end and while world wide Hogan was the bigger star, no one comes close to Inoki in Japan. Take any athelete or movie star in the US now, then, whenever, and they weren't as big as Inoki was in Japan.Hogan has wrestled Inoki a few times in Japan, and got booed out the building. He played heel well. The Muta comment, I think was more of a work comment, but especially in 1993 when people still gave interviews in kayfabe, it was a complete bury. Yeah I've seen the Inoki matches. A lot of Hogan's Japan work was actually pretty good in terms of work rate. Obviously he was almost always the one being carried by better wrestlers but there's nothing wrong with that. No one ever expected Hogan to be a ring general. Yeah I know he wasn't shooting on Muta, but he didn't make him look like a contender at all. Hogan never could put anyone over. It just wasn't in his personality. And that worked fine between 84 and 89 when he wasn't supposed to put anyone over. The audience wanted a fearless superhero that no one could defeat. But in '90 when he basically kicked out of Warrior's pin, and pinned Sting with that "fast" count in 96, he really helped hurt the future business of each of those companies. In hindsight he never should have faced Warrior in a Wrestlemania match. The people were never going to fully accept the guy that beat their hero. They should have had them face off at Summerslam or Survivor Series and had it end with a run in of a new monster heel that would end up giving Hogan a "career ending" injury, and then have Warrior take the belt off of that guy. It could have been Sid, but Vader was already over in Japan and could play the role perfectly. Warrior over Vader at Wrestlemania 6 may not have drawn the same short term money of Hogan/Warrior, but it would have stretched out a longer feud and have kept Warrior a more likable face. In the end he may have self destructed anyway, and then they could have turned Warrior heel for Hogan's return in WM7. All in all it would have made more money, I think.Also, I know Hogan technically put Brock over a few years back, but let's be honest. That was all Brock picking up a winded Hogan that was sand bagging all night and turning himself into a star, especially with that blood sash.I think that in the US, it was also as much Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff as it was Hulk Hogan. Both men were more about money. There were plenty of ways to get the belt from Hogan to Warrior, but a Wrestlemania match was the biggest. The Warrior won and many will always remember that. The mistake was not how it was due, but that the Warrior self exploded afterwords. I think that victory should have waited until Wrestlemania 7, then you could have played many angles, but the main one was to lead to a Flair/Hogan match in WM8 with Flair finally beating Hulk Hogan. Flair then eventually put over Hart, so a Hogan to Flair to Hart title change would have really put over Hart. But as I said, McMahon was about money, and Hogan was about money, and money talks and bullshit walks. Now Hogan in WCW, let just say that Bischoff couldn't carry McMahon's bootstraps in terms of booking. He was admitted to be worn out, and the nWo was actually taken from Japan invasion angles, and Mr. Wonderful had as much to do with everything as anyone, so Bischoff gets way too much credit. He let Hogan run wild, something McMahon never did. McMahon talked money put with an eye to the future. Bischoff thought money, but never thought about the future until it's too late.
I never heard of Orndorf and nWo. Was Paul still booking at WCW at that time?
In some cases Hogan just wouldn't do the job. With Bret Hart there were pictures taken of the two of them in poses over the title, and Bret was supposed to have a feud with Hogan. Hogan later said no because he felt it would make him look bad to ever lose to a "little" guy like Bret. He instead chose to lose to a monster Yokozuna in a cheat fashion with the exploding camera. Now I don't know if it would have helped in the long run for Bret or not. Maybe it was better for Hart the way it ended up, but the point was that Hogan made decisions in spite of what Vince wanted pretty regularly. There was a point in the 80s and 90s where Vince knew he couldn't tell Hogan to do something if Hogan didn't want to do it. Vince may have wrote the checks but they would have been smaller checks with out Hogan.The self destruction of the Warrior has been overstated by McMahon and his videos. He was nutty sure, but more of the downfall to do with the way he was booked. First he started off with resentment because the beating of Hogan. Historically faces never beat faces and remain as popular. Second, he wrestled way too much. Part of the draw of Hogan was you only saw him on special occasions. Warrior was facing jobbers on Superstars almost weekly. Thirdly, they never built a strong set of heels for him to face. They needed a group of monsters for the Warrior to slay. Instead we got Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Sgt Slaughter etc. They may have been good workers and great performers but they weren't the type of guys people wanted to see facing a Champion Warrior. The Undertaker was a monster heel but that feud was too much at times, like the no air in the casket bullshit. Why threaten actual death in pro wrestling, especially in 1991? I don't know exactly how it should have been done but I know it wasn't done right. And it also didn't happen the way WWE remembers it. If they booked Steve Austen the way they booked Warrior after Stone Cold became popular, the WWF may have went under, because Stone Cold wouldn't have stayed over either.
I don't see McMahon as the genuis booker he's set up to be. With out Scott and Barnett, little Vince would have gotten eaten alive by the Crocketts, but Vince used his dad's respect and money to buy out Gagne's talent pool, and by his dad's word was given the top booker and top promoter in Wrestling and for the first 3 to 4 years of the WWF they laid down all the ground work. McMahon is McMahon and deserves a lot of credit for his bold ideas. He envisioned this giant palace in his mind, but he gives no mention to the fact that he had the best architect and foreman in the world to build it for him. With out them the palace of Wrestlemania would have collapsed early on.
Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI never heard of Orndorf and nWo. Was Paul still booking at WCW at that time?well the idea that Bischoff took the angle from Japanese invasion angles was completely made up, it was Orndorf that wanted an invasion angle. He was booking, but Terry Taylor was the main booker. Taylor basically laided the ground work for the black and white colors, t-shirts and so on once the idea was put into motion and Hall and Nash took that ball and ran with it once they got on stage and did what they did. Also, it was suppose to be Bret Hart as the third man. This was after losing at WM12, and if you remember Hart took time off. He was actually not signed, and the fear of Hart turning caused McMahon to sign him to a contract he could not afford, then leading to McMahon trying to get out and the ground work for the screwjob was laid. At the end of the day, the screwjob lead McMahon back as he now was known as the boss.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMIn some cases Hogan just wouldn't do the job. With Bret Hart there were pictures taken of the two of them in poses over the title, and Bret was supposed to have a feud with Hogan. Hogan later said no because he felt it would make him look bad to ever lose to a "little" guy like Bret. He instead chose to lose to a monster Yokozuna in a cheat fashion with the exploding camera. Now I don't know if it would have helped in the long run for Bret or not. Maybe it was better for Hart the way it ended up, but the point was that Hogan made decisions in spite of what Vince wanted pretty regularly. There was a point in the 80s and 90s where Vince knew he couldn't tell Hogan to do something if Hogan didn't want to do it. Vince may have wrote the checks but they would have been smaller checks with out Hogan.The self destruction of the Warrior has been overstated by McMahon and his videos. He was nutty sure, but more of the downfall to do with the way he was booked. First he started off with resentment because the beating of Hogan. Historically faces never beat faces and remain as popular. Second, he wrestled way too much. Part of the draw of Hogan was you only saw him on special occasions. Warrior was facing jobbers on Superstars almost weekly. Thirdly, they never built a strong set of heels for him to face. They needed a group of monsters for the Warrior to slay. Instead we got Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Sgt Slaughter etc. They may have been good workers and great performers but they weren't the type of guys people wanted to see facing a Champion Warrior. The Undertaker was a monster heel but that feud was too much at times, like the no air in the casket bullshit. Why threaten actual death in pro wrestling, especially in 1991? I don't know exactly how it should have been done but I know it wasn't done right. And it also didn't happen the way WWE remembers it. If they booked Steve Austen the way they booked Warrior after Stone Cold became popular, the WWF may have went under, because Stone Cold wouldn't have stayed over either.Hogan losing to Bret I don't think was important. Were I think they dropped the ball was Hart vs. Flair. You could put over a great technical wrestling match between the champ, Flair, and the rising great in Hart. I think Hogan should have lose to Flair at WM8, and then Flair would really look stronger than he already was. Most people knew Flair he was a great in 1991, and it would have not been seen as that tragic that Hogan lose to Flair. Hogan was losing to Flair in the house shows, usually in Roddy Piper fashion, by count out or DQ, so I think Hogan was ready to do the big job, but as Hogan would say he was truly burned out. After 9 years on the road, he was ready to go, but wanted to go out on top. So instead of McMahon trying to convince Hogan that losing to Flair was best for the business, which was the original plan of WM8, McMahon changed it and instead Savage got the Flair match, and Flair got the gold so he could lose to Savage. By 1991 though, you could tell that people in the WWF were worn out after all that time at full speed. Angles were either forced or just bizarre. Gimmicks were jokes, and the talent they had at the time was the best in the world but badly misused. Like Demolition Smash as Repo Man? The whole Undertaker/Warrior train wreck, WWF in 1990-91 was basically going down. Which sucks, because lots of what was wrong with the early 90's could have been fixed with a great WM7 and 8.Now the Warrior, I think that the whole Undertaker deal was a way to put over 'Taker, and still make the Warrior strong. But in Summer Slam 1991.once you cross McMahon, you may comeback, but he will bury you, and McMahon seem to try to actually bury the Warrior in every sense of the word. Now did he handle his title reign correctly, I think he actually did. I mean, Warrior was against great workers and the win over Hogan I think actually HELPED get the Warrior over. Now maybe it would have been better with Warrior beating Hogan as champ, but all and all I think it turned out well. The sad part is, the Warrior had control over his gimmick after he cameback, and we got the Papa Shango angle for it. So I don't think the Warrior had much booking savy.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI don't see McMahon as the genuis booker he's set up to be. With out Scott and Barnett, little Vince would have gotten eaten alive by the Crocketts, but Vince used his dad's respect and money to buy out Gagne's talent pool, and by his dad's word was given the top booker and top promoter in Wrestling and for the first 3 to 4 years of the WWF they laid down all the ground work. McMahon is McMahon and deserves a lot of credit for his bold ideas. He envisioned this giant palace in his mind, but he gives no mention to the fact that he had the best architect and foreman in the world to build it for him. With out them the palace of Wrestlemania would have collapsed early on.Didn't know about this, I might have to look it up. I know Vince wouldn't give up this info on any WWE websites... lol.
Quote from: M Dogg on December 27, 2008, 10:31:19 PMQuote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI never heard of Orndorf and nWo. Was Paul still booking at WCW at that time?well the idea that Bischoff took the angle from Japanese invasion angles was completely made up, it was Orndorf that wanted an invasion angle. He was booking, but Terry Taylor was the main booker. Taylor basically laided the ground work for the black and white colors, t-shirts and so on once the idea was put into motion and Hall and Nash took that ball and ran with it once they got on stage and did what they did. Also, it was suppose to be Bret Hart as the third man. This was after losing at WM12, and if you remember Hart took time off. He was actually not signed, and the fear of Hart turning caused McMahon to sign him to a contract he could not afford, then leading to McMahon trying to get out and the ground work for the screwjob was laid. At the end of the day, the screwjob lead McMahon back as he now was known as the boss.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMIn some cases Hogan just wouldn't do the job. With Bret Hart there were pictures taken of the two of them in poses over the title, and Bret was supposed to have a feud with Hogan. Hogan later said no because he felt it would make him look bad to ever lose to a "little" guy like Bret. He instead chose to lose to a monster Yokozuna in a cheat fashion with the exploding camera. Now I don't know if it would have helped in the long run for Bret or not. Maybe it was better for Hart the way it ended up, but the point was that Hogan made decisions in spite of what Vince wanted pretty regularly. There was a point in the 80s and 90s where Vince knew he couldn't tell Hogan to do something if Hogan didn't want to do it. Vince may have wrote the checks but they would have been smaller checks with out Hogan.The self destruction of the Warrior has been overstated by McMahon and his videos. He was nutty sure, but more of the downfall to do with the way he was booked. First he started off with resentment because the beating of Hogan. Historically faces never beat faces and remain as popular. Second, he wrestled way too much. Part of the draw of Hogan was you only saw him on special occasions. Warrior was facing jobbers on Superstars almost weekly. Thirdly, they never built a strong set of heels for him to face. They needed a group of monsters for the Warrior to slay. Instead we got Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Sgt Slaughter etc. They may have been good workers and great performers but they weren't the type of guys people wanted to see facing a Champion Warrior. The Undertaker was a monster heel but that feud was too much at times, like the no air in the casket bullshit. Why threaten actual death in pro wrestling, especially in 1991? I don't know exactly how it should have been done but I know it wasn't done right. And it also didn't happen the way WWE remembers it. If they booked Steve Austen the way they booked Warrior after Stone Cold became popular, the WWF may have went under, because Stone Cold wouldn't have stayed over either.Hogan losing to Bret I don't think was important. Were I think they dropped the ball was Hart vs. Flair. You could put over a great technical wrestling match between the champ, Flair, and the rising great in Hart. I think Hogan should have lose to Flair at WM8, and then Flair would really look stronger than he already was. Most people knew Flair he was a great in 1991, and it would have not been seen as that tragic that Hogan lose to Flair. Hogan was losing to Flair in the house shows, usually in Roddy Piper fashion, by count out or DQ, so I think Hogan was ready to do the big job, but as Hogan would say he was truly burned out. After 9 years on the road, he was ready to go, but wanted to go out on top. So instead of McMahon trying to convince Hogan that losing to Flair was best for the business, which was the original plan of WM8, McMahon changed it and instead Savage got the Flair match, and Flair got the gold so he could lose to Savage. By 1991 though, you could tell that people in the WWF were worn out after all that time at full speed. Angles were either forced or just bizarre. Gimmicks were jokes, and the talent they had at the time was the best in the world but badly misused. Like Demolition Smash as Repo Man? The whole Undertaker/Warrior train wreck, WWF in 1990-91 was basically going down. Which sucks, because lots of what was wrong with the early 90's could have been fixed with a great WM7 and 8.Now the Warrior, I think that the whole Undertaker deal was a way to put over 'Taker, and still make the Warrior strong. But in Summer Slam 1991.once you cross McMahon, you may comeback, but he will bury you, and McMahon seem to try to actually bury the Warrior in every sense of the word. Now did he handle his title reign correctly, I think he actually did. I mean, Warrior was against great workers and the win over Hogan I think actually HELPED get the Warrior over. Now maybe it would have been better with Warrior beating Hogan as champ, but all and all I think it turned out well. The sad part is, the Warrior had control over his gimmick after he cameback, and we got the Papa Shango angle for it. So I don't think the Warrior had much booking savy.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI don't see McMahon as the genuis booker he's set up to be. With out Scott and Barnett, little Vince would have gotten eaten alive by the Crocketts, but Vince used his dad's respect and money to buy out Gagne's talent pool, and by his dad's word was given the top booker and top promoter in Wrestling and for the first 3 to 4 years of the WWF they laid down all the ground work. McMahon is McMahon and deserves a lot of credit for his bold ideas. He envisioned this giant palace in his mind, but he gives no mention to the fact that he had the best architect and foreman in the world to build it for him. With out them the palace of Wrestlemania would have collapsed early on.Didn't know about this, I might have to look it up. I know Vince wouldn't give up this info on any WWE websites... lol.I remember the Bret Hart rumors, and thought it may have been him after he left following WM12, but I never thought it would have been a good fit with Hall and Nash. Hogan was the ideal choice and it shocked the hell out of me. I remember being 13 years old watching the PPV on Sunday in blurred form because I didn't have the cash to buy it and just listening to the match with friends over at my house. We were all huge marks for the Outsiders and got so mad when Hogan was coming out because we thought he would ruin it all by beating up Hall and Nash. Then Schiavone announced that Hogan had leg dropped, I think it was, Savage, and my living room erupted with joy. One of the moments in life I'll never forget.Anyway, as for Warrior, I don't think personally he was ever going to last. The people just sat through a 5 year Hogan reign and I don't think they wanted another. If they wanted him to do better as a face they would have done something like the Vader angle I spoke of. If I had the book I would have kept him beating Hogan. Then brought in Vader or someone like him for Summerslam, had Hogan show up for the match to be in Warrior's corner to watch his back but tease resentment from Warrior. Warrior wins with some assistance from Hogan, then I'd have turned Warrior heel under the logic that he's sick of Hogan grabbing the spotlight, higher the Road Warriors to come in and be part of the heel Warrior's team. This would set up a Survivor Series with Team Hogan vs Team Warrior and then a WM7 of a Hogan/Warrior rematch. To me that would have been the biggest money. After Hogan won it back is when Flair would come in and beat Hogan at WM8, hold it until 9 and lose it to Bret. Our thoughts on that are pretty similar. I'd have then kept Savage and used him to feud with the new World Champion Hart until Summerslam. Kept Flair to put over Luger and go with Hart/Luger for WM10.Nah, Jim Barnett and George Scott don't get any mentions on WWE products but it's well documented that Barnett first over saw the taking over of many territories and promotions of the first two Manias and first SNMEs and Scott booked them all. Vince was new to the biz as far as doing it alone, and while his dad didn't like his tactics he wanted his son to succeed and being maybe the most well like and respected Promoter in the country he got Scott to come and work with Vince. Jim Barnett also with GCW, like Scott was, was already one of the great promoters in the biz and made a lot of the business deals that lead to WM1, 2, and I think 3.
Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 11:00:53 PMQuote from: M Dogg on December 27, 2008, 10:31:19 PMQuote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI never heard of Orndorf and nWo. Was Paul still booking at WCW at that time?well the idea that Bischoff took the angle from Japanese invasion angles was completely made up, it was Orndorf that wanted an invasion angle. He was booking, but Terry Taylor was the main booker. Taylor basically laided the ground work for the black and white colors, t-shirts and so on once the idea was put into motion and Hall and Nash took that ball and ran with it once they got on stage and did what they did. Also, it was suppose to be Bret Hart as the third man. This was after losing at WM12, and if you remember Hart took time off. He was actually not signed, and the fear of Hart turning caused McMahon to sign him to a contract he could not afford, then leading to McMahon trying to get out and the ground work for the screwjob was laid. At the end of the day, the screwjob lead McMahon back as he now was known as the boss.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMIn some cases Hogan just wouldn't do the job. With Bret Hart there were pictures taken of the two of them in poses over the title, and Bret was supposed to have a feud with Hogan. Hogan later said no because he felt it would make him look bad to ever lose to a "little" guy like Bret. He instead chose to lose to a monster Yokozuna in a cheat fashion with the exploding camera. Now I don't know if it would have helped in the long run for Bret or not. Maybe it was better for Hart the way it ended up, but the point was that Hogan made decisions in spite of what Vince wanted pretty regularly. There was a point in the 80s and 90s where Vince knew he couldn't tell Hogan to do something if Hogan didn't want to do it. Vince may have wrote the checks but they would have been smaller checks with out Hogan.The self destruction of the Warrior has been overstated by McMahon and his videos. He was nutty sure, but more of the downfall to do with the way he was booked. First he started off with resentment because the beating of Hogan. Historically faces never beat faces and remain as popular. Second, he wrestled way too much. Part of the draw of Hogan was you only saw him on special occasions. Warrior was facing jobbers on Superstars almost weekly. Thirdly, they never built a strong set of heels for him to face. They needed a group of monsters for the Warrior to slay. Instead we got Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Sgt Slaughter etc. They may have been good workers and great performers but they weren't the type of guys people wanted to see facing a Champion Warrior. The Undertaker was a monster heel but that feud was too much at times, like the no air in the casket bullshit. Why threaten actual death in pro wrestling, especially in 1991? I don't know exactly how it should have been done but I know it wasn't done right. And it also didn't happen the way WWE remembers it. If they booked Steve Austen the way they booked Warrior after Stone Cold became popular, the WWF may have went under, because Stone Cold wouldn't have stayed over either.Hogan losing to Bret I don't think was important. Were I think they dropped the ball was Hart vs. Flair. You could put over a great technical wrestling match between the champ, Flair, and the rising great in Hart. I think Hogan should have lose to Flair at WM8, and then Flair would really look stronger than he already was. Most people knew Flair he was a great in 1991, and it would have not been seen as that tragic that Hogan lose to Flair. Hogan was losing to Flair in the house shows, usually in Roddy Piper fashion, by count out or DQ, so I think Hogan was ready to do the big job, but as Hogan would say he was truly burned out. After 9 years on the road, he was ready to go, but wanted to go out on top. So instead of McMahon trying to convince Hogan that losing to Flair was best for the business, which was the original plan of WM8, McMahon changed it and instead Savage got the Flair match, and Flair got the gold so he could lose to Savage. By 1991 though, you could tell that people in the WWF were worn out after all that time at full speed. Angles were either forced or just bizarre. Gimmicks were jokes, and the talent they had at the time was the best in the world but badly misused. Like Demolition Smash as Repo Man? The whole Undertaker/Warrior train wreck, WWF in 1990-91 was basically going down. Which sucks, because lots of what was wrong with the early 90's could have been fixed with a great WM7 and 8.Now the Warrior, I think that the whole Undertaker deal was a way to put over 'Taker, and still make the Warrior strong. But in Summer Slam 1991.once you cross McMahon, you may comeback, but he will bury you, and McMahon seem to try to actually bury the Warrior in every sense of the word. Now did he handle his title reign correctly, I think he actually did. I mean, Warrior was against great workers and the win over Hogan I think actually HELPED get the Warrior over. Now maybe it would have been better with Warrior beating Hogan as champ, but all and all I think it turned out well. The sad part is, the Warrior had control over his gimmick after he cameback, and we got the Papa Shango angle for it. So I don't think the Warrior had much booking savy.Quote from: Shallow on December 27, 2008, 08:26:24 PMI don't see McMahon as the genuis booker he's set up to be. With out Scott and Barnett, little Vince would have gotten eaten alive by the Crocketts, but Vince used his dad's respect and money to buy out Gagne's talent pool, and by his dad's word was given the top booker and top promoter in Wrestling and for the first 3 to 4 years of the WWF they laid down all the ground work. McMahon is McMahon and deserves a lot of credit for his bold ideas. He envisioned this giant palace in his mind, but he gives no mention to the fact that he had the best architect and foreman in the world to build it for him. With out them the palace of Wrestlemania would have collapsed early on.Didn't know about this, I might have to look it up. I know Vince wouldn't give up this info on any WWE websites... lol.I remember the Bret Hart rumors, and thought it may have been him after he left following WM12, but I never thought it would have been a good fit with Hall and Nash. Hogan was the ideal choice and it shocked the hell out of me. I remember being 13 years old watching the PPV on Sunday in blurred form because I didn't have the cash to buy it and just listening to the match with friends over at my house. We were all huge marks for the Outsiders and got so mad when Hogan was coming out because we thought he would ruin it all by beating up Hall and Nash. Then Schiavone announced that Hogan had leg dropped, I think it was, Savage, and my living room erupted with joy. One of the moments in life I'll never forget.Anyway, as for Warrior, I don't think personally he was ever going to last. The people just sat through a 5 year Hogan reign and I don't think they wanted another. If they wanted him to do better as a face they would have done something like the Vader angle I spoke of. If I had the book I would have kept him beating Hogan. Then brought in Vader or someone like him for Summerslam, had Hogan show up for the match to be in Warrior's corner to watch his back but tease resentment from Warrior. Warrior wins with some assistance from Hogan, then I'd have turned Warrior heel under the logic that he's sick of Hogan grabbing the spotlight, higher the Road Warriors to come in and be part of the heel Warrior's team. This would set up a Survivor Series with Team Hogan vs Team Warrior and then a WM7 of a Hogan/Warrior rematch. To me that would have been the biggest money. After Hogan won it back is when Flair would come in and beat Hogan at WM8, hold it until 9 and lose it to Bret. Our thoughts on that are pretty similar. I'd have then kept Savage and used him to feud with the new World Champion Hart until Summerslam. Kept Flair to put over Luger and go with Hart/Luger for WM10.Nah, Jim Barnett and George Scott don't get any mentions on WWE products but it's well documented that Barnett first over saw the taking over of many territories and promotions of the first two Manias and first SNMEs and Scott booked them all. Vince was new to the biz as far as doing it alone, and while his dad didn't like his tactics he wanted his son to succeed and being maybe the most well like and respected Promoter in the country he got Scott to come and work with Vince. Jim Barnett also with GCW, like Scott was, was already one of the great promoters in the biz and made a lot of the business deals that lead to WM1, 2, and I think 3.I think that Hogan to Warrior to Hogan to Flair title change would have been genius. Oh well. A heel Road Warriors would have truly been great.I remember seeing the same thing, we had the screen scrabbled but could hear it. I remember my cousin and I just in awe, and for the first time, we were hooked on WCW. He was a WCW fan because of Sting, but Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had him watching WWF every week, and I was loyal to WWF because of Hogan, and once he left to WCW I found WCW really childish with the Dungeon of Doom and was into my Razor and Diesel. Once these guys teamed with Hogan though, it was nWo all the way.
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