Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Coaches overrated?
Lunatic:
^Fisher turned a horrible 0-6 team (yes they looked good at times but the final 3 losses were despicable) into a good one. And don't tell me it was just CJ lol. The team was averaging like 138 rush yards at 0-6. Fisher used that bye week to tighten up a lot of things.
D-Nice:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on December 01, 2009, 01:48:24 PM ---i always thought they were.
i mean Phil Jackson for example; won 10 rings with Michael Jordan (with a great cast) & Kobe Bryant (probably with a greater cast).
whose the two people always debated for GOAT? yeah, those two.
Doc Rivers coached during the worst Celtics season in history, then won a ring with three Hall of Famers; you going to tell me that he's a "good coach" or a "factor"?
you really think either one of these two would get the Nets a win?
Football coaches? yeah, some of them are better in certain areas of the game & have different principals; but the "best ones" just happen to have the best players lol.
you think Bill Belichick or Sean Payton would win a Super Bowl in St. Louis or Oakland this year?
Baseball coaches seem to take a lot of heat game in & game out; but again, the coaches with the best players win.
i know, i was talking about the worst teams in the league; but i don't think any coach i named with just presence alone would get any average team over the hump.
Payton on the Jets or Packers or Phil on the Bucks or in Utah.
i just feel they don't play that role on any team that truly determines games every week; it's like 95% talent on the field or court to me.
--- End quote ---
Phil Jackson got this last one (championship) by building a squad though. The Gasol trade put them over the top, but they drafted alot of young talent and built that team up after the Shaq trade.
Chamillitary Click:
--- Quote from: Lunatic 63 on December 01, 2009, 04:10:24 PM ---^Fisher turned a horrible 0-6 team (yes they looked good at times but the final 3 losses were despicable) into a good one. And don't tell me it was just CJ lol. The team was averaging like 138 rush yards at 0-6. Fisher used that bye week to tighten up a lot of things.
--- End quote ---
pretty sure you're the one who said around the 0-4 mark, "this record doesn't reflect how we really are".
you lost some games that could of gone either way (Steelers, Jets & Houston) & then lost to the Pats & Colts.
you very well could of been 3-3 & nobody would of said anything.
the only difference was Vince Young & you seem to be high on your horse that he is the reason this teams gone in the other direction.
i'll give Fisher the change of QB, but honestly, any coach would of made the same change; not trying to take away from Jeff, but it was the obvious move.
regardless of this going somewhere else lol, the point is, Jeff Fisher is a great coach; but i don't think putting him in Buffalo would put that team over the hump without more talent.
--- Quote from: D~Nice on December 01, 2009, 04:11:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on December 01, 2009, 01:48:24 PM ---i always thought they were.
i mean Phil Jackson for example; won 10 rings with Michael Jordan (with a great cast) & Kobe Bryant (probably with a greater cast).
whose the two people always debated for GOAT? yeah, those two.
Doc Rivers coached during the worst Celtics season in history, then won a ring with three Hall of Famers; you going to tell me that he's a "good coach" or a "factor"?
you really think either one of these two would get the Nets a win?
Football coaches? yeah, some of them are better in certain areas of the game & have different principals; but the "best ones" just happen to have the best players lol.
you think Bill Belichick or Sean Payton would win a Super Bowl in St. Louis or Oakland this year?
Baseball coaches seem to take a lot of heat game in & game out; but again, the coaches with the best players win.
i know, i was talking about the worst teams in the league; but i don't think any coach i named with just presence alone would get any average team over the hump.
Payton on the Jets or Packers or Phil on the Bucks or in Utah.
i just feel they don't play that role on any team that truly determines games every week; it's like 95% talent on the field or court to me.
--- End quote ---
Phil Jackson got this last one (championship) by building a squad though. The Gasol trade put them over the top, but they drafted alot of young talent and built that team up after the Shaq trade.
--- End quote ---
i think they could of beaten the Magic without Gasol anyway; but they drafted talent.
Bynum was said to be something special when he developed & Ariza came up big.
it was talent, Kobe knows the team well enough where i think if he was a player/coach, they could of found themselves in the Finals lol.
but again, yeah Phil is an a great coach, but i don't feel his contributions game in, game out are the reason they won; maybe building the team, but not in-game.
i know coaching goes beyond just the in-game, but i'm more or less talking about in-game coaching.
my point being talent >>>*a hundred more* >>> coaching.
D-Nice:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on December 01, 2009, 04:30:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lunatic 63 on December 01, 2009, 04:10:24 PM ---^Fisher turned a horrible 0-6 team (yes they looked good at times but the final 3 losses were despicable) into a good one. And don't tell me it was just CJ lol. The team was averaging like 138 rush yards at 0-6. Fisher used that bye week to tighten up a lot of things.
--- End quote ---
pretty sure you're the one who said around the 0-4 mark, "this record doesn't reflect how we really are".
you lost some games that could of gone either way (Steelers, Jets & Houston) & then lost to the Pats & Colts.
you very well could of been 3-3 & nobody would of said anything.
the only difference was Vince Young & you seem to be high on your horse that he is the reason this teams gone in the other direction.
i'll give Fisher the change of QB, but honestly, any coach would of made the same change; not trying to take away from Jeff, but it was the obvious move.
regardless of this going somewhere else lol, the point is, Jeff Fisher is a great coach; but i don't think putting him in Buffalo would put that team over the hump without more talent.
--- Quote from: D~Nice on December 01, 2009, 04:11:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on December 01, 2009, 01:48:24 PM ---i always thought they were.
i mean Phil Jackson for example; won 10 rings with Michael Jordan (with a great cast) & Kobe Bryant (probably with a greater cast).
whose the two people always debated for GOAT? yeah, those two.
Doc Rivers coached during the worst Celtics season in history, then won a ring with three Hall of Famers; you going to tell me that he's a "good coach" or a "factor"?
you really think either one of these two would get the Nets a win?
Football coaches? yeah, some of them are better in certain areas of the game & have different principals; but the "best ones" just happen to have the best players lol.
you think Bill Belichick or Sean Payton would win a Super Bowl in St. Louis or Oakland this year?
Baseball coaches seem to take a lot of heat game in & game out; but again, the coaches with the best players win.
i know, i was talking about the worst teams in the league; but i don't think any coach i named with just presence alone would get any average team over the hump.
Payton on the Jets or Packers or Phil on the Bucks or in Utah.
i just feel they don't play that role on any team that truly determines games every week; it's like 95% talent on the field or court to me.
--- End quote ---
Phil Jackson got this last one (championship) by building a squad though. The Gasol trade put them over the top, but they drafted alot of young talent and built that team up after the Shaq trade.
--- End quote ---
i think they could of beaten the Magic without Gasol anyway; but they drafted talent.
Bynum was said to be something special when he developed & Ariza came up big.
it was talent, Kobe knows the team well enough where i think if he was a player/coach, they could of found themselves in the Finals lol.
but again, yeah Phil is an a great coach, but i don't feel his contributions game in, game out are the reason they won; maybe building the team, but not in-game.
i know coaching goes beyond just the in-game, but i'm more or less talking about in-game coaching.
my point being talent >>>*a hundred more* >>> coaching.
--- End quote ---
Well if you are talking in game coaching then for sure Phil is not overrated. MJ and Kobe and Shaq were all in the same boat before Phil Jackson became their coach. Annual trips to the playoffs, 0 rings period. Phil's teams all after he coached them became better executing teams offensively and defensively. Many call Phil's tactics at coaching "not the norm" but if the players respond well to it and it works into a winning and championship formula, is that also not coaching as well? Phil also surrounded himself around a great assistant coaching staff as well.
All I know is the Bulls and Lakers were not winning championships with Doug Collins and Dell Harris.
Chamillitary Click:
^i beg to differ, but you do raise a good point.
something had to have changed on the rosters or something though, no? maybe just experience with playing each other.
i know Phil in Portland isn't giving them a ring; maybe in 5 years, when they are all Super-Stars lol.
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