Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Raiders get themselves a QB!!!!
Shallow:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:54:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
--- End quote ---
The problem is you believe in your philosphy so strongly that you ignore certain things that are clearly obvious to everyone else. I agree to an extent that the system can help or hurt a QB. I dont think the system is gonna turn a bad QB into a HOF'er and a Great QB into a bust. Being a great QB is as much about being a leader as it is about being a talent. Jeff George was one of the most talented passers EVER. Even Shanahan said "Out of the ten best passes ive ever seen, George threw 8 of em". He couldnt put together a solid career ANYwhere he went. He didnt have the mindset to play QB in the NFL...no matter how great his arm was. Jamarcus has neither the arm...the will...the work ethic...or the mindset. He has a strong arm. But cmon man. You think the organization being chaotic should keep him from making throws that a decent high school QB would make?
--- End quote ---
Jeff George had some terrible career numbers, but one season he had 4000 yards, 30 TDs and 10 INTs or something like that and his wins didn't go up at all. Where were these great teams he was on? I'm saying he was Peyton Manning or Dan Marino as a QB, but if Jeff George had been one year older he would have been drafted by the Cowboys instead of the Colts and it may have been him with 3 rings on that power house Cowboys team.
I can't show anyone that a QB who never had a great team would perform because there's no evidence but because there's so many QBs that were not so great on bad teams and ended up being very great on great teams I believe that the ones that never got a chance would have done better in better situations. Doug Williams and Steve Young staying on the Bucs would have amounted to nothing. Steve Young becomes an all time great and Williams wins 1 more ring than Marino and Fouts. Doug Flutie I already used as an example. Kyle Orton went from chump to champ in one year stats wise. They actully missed him when he got hurt. They never missed him in Chicago. Cassel goes from NE to KC and suddenly he throws 800 less yards, completes almost ten percent less passes and loses 5 TDs while gaining 5 INTs. Cassel didn't get any worse or better and he's getting a second chance only because of what he showed he could do on a great team.
I've spent years studying and honing my philosophies on this and I came to the conclusion that the only reason the QB is praised the way he is by the NFL is for economical reasons. They have to convince the audience the the difference in QB play was the difference in the game. They still say 2 time super bowl champ Big Ben. He Won them two rings. blah blah blah. That first ring he played so bad they won in spite of him, not because of him, but they'll never come out and say that. Did you hear one single big name analyst say Ben stunk it up and Pit won anyway? At best they said Ben didn't have a big game but it was enough for a win. He went 9 for fucking 21 and barely got 100 yards. The best pass play of the day was from a WR who threw the only TD pass. Ben through zero, but threw two picks. Ben's number's would look bad in 1965. In 2005 they were abysmal. But "he" got the ring. Fuck that. I can think for myself.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 09:31:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:54:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
--- End quote ---
The problem is you believe in your philosphy so strongly that you ignore certain things that are clearly obvious to everyone else. I agree to an extent that the system can help or hurt a QB. I dont think the system is gonna turn a bad QB into a HOF'er and a Great QB into a bust. Being a great QB is as much about being a leader as it is about being a talent. Jeff George was one of the most talented passers EVER. Even Shanahan said "Out of the ten best passes ive ever seen, George threw 8 of em". He couldnt put together a solid career ANYwhere he went. He didnt have the mindset to play QB in the NFL...no matter how great his arm was. Jamarcus has neither the arm...the will...the work ethic...or the mindset. He has a strong arm. But cmon man. You think the organization being chaotic should keep him from making throws that a decent high school QB would make?
--- End quote ---
Jeff George had some terrible career numbers, but one season he had 4000 yards, 30 TDs and 10 INTs or something like that and his wins didn't go up at all. Where were these great teams he was on? I'm saying he was Peyton Manning or Dan Marino as a QB, but if Jeff George had been one year older he would have been drafted by the Cowboys instead of the Colts and it may have been him with 3 rings on that power house Cowboys team.
I can't show anyone that a QB who never had a great team would perform because there's no evidence but because there's so many QBs that were not so great on bad teams and ended up being very great on great teams I believe that the ones that never got a chance would have done better in better situations. Doug Williams and Steve Young staying on the Bucs would have amounted to nothing. Steve Young becomes an all time great and Williams wins 1 more ring than Marino and Fouts. Doug Flutie I already used as an example. Kyle Orton went from chump to champ in one year stats wise. They actully missed him when he got hurt. They never missed him in Chicago. Cassel goes from NE to KC and suddenly he throws 800 less yards, completes almost ten percent less passes and loses 5 TDs while gaining 5 INTs. Cassel didn't get any worse or better and he's getting a second chance only because of what he showed he could do on a great team.
I've spent years studying and honing my philosophies on this and I came to the conclusion that the only reason the QB is praised the way he is by the NFL is for economical reasons. They have to convince the audience the the difference in QB play was the difference in the game. They still say 2 time super bowl champ Big Ben. He Won them two rings. blah blah blah. That first ring he played so bad they won in spite of him, not because of him, but they'll never come out and say that. Did you hear one single big name analyst say Ben stunk it up and Pit won anyway? At best they said Ben didn't have a big game but it was enough for a win. He went 9 for fucking 21 and barely got 100 yards. The best pass play of the day was from a WR who threw the only TD pass. Ben through zero, but threw two picks. Ben's number's would look bad in 1965. In 2005 they were abysmal. But "he" got the ring. Fuck that. I can think for myself.
--- End quote ---
the thing is youre basing this on YOUR own opinion of who is great or not. So that way...you can never be wrong in your theory. You have used Brady as your example when the rest of the world considers him a great QB. Am I fan of Brady? Hell no. Do I think Peyton is a better QB? Yes. Do I think Peyton would be a great QB if he played for...i dunno....the Bills this whole time? Yes. Montana without a doubt had better teams than Marino. I believe Marino is a better QB than Montana. And that opinion is shared by many. Not all, but many. Does the system matter...yes. Is it everything? Of course not. If the system was everything....QB's wouldnt be paid what they are. It is without a shadow of a doubt, THE most important position on th field. Offense like is huge...but that isnt a position. Its a group of positions. So yes, have a good or great QB means almost everything when it comes to winning in this league. Again, there ARE always exception to every rule. But if Im gonna bet....I'll go with the numbers.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 09:41:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 09:31:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:54:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
--- End quote ---
The problem is you believe in your philosphy so strongly that you ignore certain things that are clearly obvious to everyone else. I agree to an extent that the system can help or hurt a QB. I dont think the system is gonna turn a bad QB into a HOF'er and a Great QB into a bust. Being a great QB is as much about being a leader as it is about being a talent. Jeff George was one of the most talented passers EVER. Even Shanahan said "Out of the ten best passes ive ever seen, George threw 8 of em". He couldnt put together a solid career ANYwhere he went. He didnt have the mindset to play QB in the NFL...no matter how great his arm was. Jamarcus has neither the arm...the will...the work ethic...or the mindset. He has a strong arm. But cmon man. You think the organization being chaotic should keep him from making throws that a decent high school QB would make?
--- End quote ---
Jeff George had some terrible career numbers, but one season he had 4000 yards, 30 TDs and 10 INTs or something like that and his wins didn't go up at all. Where were these great teams he was on? I'm saying he was Peyton Manning or Dan Marino as a QB, but if Jeff George had been one year older he would have been drafted by the Cowboys instead of the Colts and it may have been him with 3 rings on that power house Cowboys team.
I can't show anyone that a QB who never had a great team would perform because there's no evidence but because there's so many QBs that were not so great on bad teams and ended up being very great on great teams I believe that the ones that never got a chance would have done better in better situations. Doug Williams and Steve Young staying on the Bucs would have amounted to nothing. Steve Young becomes an all time great and Williams wins 1 more ring than Marino and Fouts. Doug Flutie I already used as an example. Kyle Orton went from chump to champ in one year stats wise. They actully missed him when he got hurt. They never missed him in Chicago. Cassel goes from NE to KC and suddenly he throws 800 less yards, completes almost ten percent less passes and loses 5 TDs while gaining 5 INTs. Cassel didn't get any worse or better and he's getting a second chance only because of what he showed he could do on a great team.
I've spent years studying and honing my philosophies on this and I came to the conclusion that the only reason the QB is praised the way he is by the NFL is for economical reasons. They have to convince the audience the the difference in QB play was the difference in the game. They still say 2 time super bowl champ Big Ben. He Won them two rings. blah blah blah. That first ring he played so bad they won in spite of him, not because of him, but they'll never come out and say that. Did you hear one single big name analyst say Ben stunk it up and Pit won anyway? At best they said Ben didn't have a big game but it was enough for a win. He went 9 for fucking 21 and barely got 100 yards. The best pass play of the day was from a WR who threw the only TD pass. Ben through zero, but threw two picks. Ben's number's would look bad in 1965. In 2005 they were abysmal. But "he" got the ring. Fuck that. I can think for myself.
--- End quote ---
the thing is youre basing this on YOUR own opinion of who is great or not. So that way...you can never be wrong in your theory. You have used Brady as your example when the rest of the world considers him a great QB. Am I fan of Brady? Hell no. Do I think Peyton is a better QB? Yes. Do I think Peyton would be a great QB if he played for...i dunno....the Bills this whole time? Yes. Montana without a doubt had better teams than Marino. I believe Marino is a better QB than Montana. And that opinion is shared by many. Not all, but many. Does the system matter...yes. Is it everything? Of course not. If the system was everything....QB's wouldnt be paid what they are. It is without a shadow of a doubt, THE most important position on th field. Offense like is huge...but that isnt a position. Its a group of positions. So yes, have a good or great QB means almost everything when it comes to winning in this league. Again, there ARE always exception to every rule. But if Im gonna bet....I'll go with the numbers.
--- End quote ---
I think Brady is great. I just don't think he's great enough to win anywhere, and that is where I differ from most of the rest of the people I argue with.
Brees showed us that he can go from very good to elite in a few seasons after injury. Did he somehow become a better player, or is the new system responsible? Would NO have won with Grossman? No, but there are more QBs that Sean Peyton could have won with other than Brees than there are systems Brees could have won with besides Payton's.
Brees is now one of the great QBs in the league. But if it were the Lions that picked him up instead of the Saints he my have sat home the last year with nowhere to play. That's my point.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 09:56:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 09:41:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 09:31:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:54:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:31:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on April 26, 2010, 08:27:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on April 26, 2010, 08:16:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ancient Chinese Secret on April 26, 2010, 08:10:00 PM ---related thru uncle...lol
--- End quote ---
seriously...Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio made a good point. And I dont really agree with this guy all the time. But when he talked about Jamarcus he basically said that Jamarcus has probably been that kid that was bigger and stronger than everyone else. When he tried to make a team, his athletisism growing up got him over the top. Because of that, he never had to develop a very strong work ethic. He didnt need it. At some point...he ran into a league (NFL) where everyone is big and strong...and more often then not, the guys with the best work ethics stand out. In his case, the guy with the worst work ethic...is standing out also. You dont become the biggest bust of all time without the blame being on you.
--- End quote ---
I never met him or even like him, but why wasn't he bringing cheeseburger to practice and getting fat? He wasn't handed the starting job at LSU. He competed with Flynn to get it. LSU is a tight ship organization while the Raiders could have the 1988 Niners roster and still find a way to miss the playoffs.
--- End quote ---
you clearly have another agenda with your arguments. You must really hate the Raiders. Did they do something to you? lol I think we can all agree...hopefully you can accept the truth on this one....that college and the Pros are two completely different games sometimes. Then again...you think Tebow was a great choice. Even while virtually every other analyst in the world sees it as stupid. Gino Toretta was an amazing college QB...Heisman winner even. Didnt quite workout in the pros lol Id imagine youd think that was all because of the franchise he was drafted to...not just him.
--- End quote ---
There's no agenda. Just a philosophy. Some QBs don't have the talent or style for the pros, but that has nothing to do with getting fat and giving up. Losing does that to some people.
I solidly believe in my philosphoes. Brady and Griese were the exact same player in te exact same system, and one went to a struggling on their way out Broncos while the other went to the one their way up Pats. Reverse their teams and you'd reverse their careers.
Gino Toretta never had a chance for me to judge him. They played him at backup every where he went and deemed him unworthy from day one before the draft even started.
You know they did the same thing with Doug Flutie. Shit, even shipped him up here to Canada for most of his prime. Then in 98 he finally got a shot to start on a decent team, my Bills, and took us to the playoffs both years he started. Then they benched him on playoff day for no reason and we lost, and never got back to the playoffs since. And if I told you in 97 that Doug Flutie would come to the Bills and take the 6-10 Bills after a 0-3 start in a transition year to 10-6 and 11-5 you'd laugh at me as you should. But it happened, because he got a real chance to shine on a good team. So who knows what would have happened to Gino Toretta if there wasa Josh McDaniels of the time that felt this guy was the future of a franchise and gave him a real chance.
--- End quote ---
The problem is you believe in your philosphy so strongly that you ignore certain things that are clearly obvious to everyone else. I agree to an extent that the system can help or hurt a QB. I dont think the system is gonna turn a bad QB into a HOF'er and a Great QB into a bust. Being a great QB is as much about being a leader as it is about being a talent. Jeff George was one of the most talented passers EVER. Even Shanahan said "Out of the ten best passes ive ever seen, George threw 8 of em". He couldnt put together a solid career ANYwhere he went. He didnt have the mindset to play QB in the NFL...no matter how great his arm was. Jamarcus has neither the arm...the will...the work ethic...or the mindset. He has a strong arm. But cmon man. You think the organization being chaotic should keep him from making throws that a decent high school QB would make?
--- End quote ---
Jeff George had some terrible career numbers, but one season he had 4000 yards, 30 TDs and 10 INTs or something like that and his wins didn't go up at all. Where were these great teams he was on? I'm saying he was Peyton Manning or Dan Marino as a QB, but if Jeff George had been one year older he would have been drafted by the Cowboys instead of the Colts and it may have been him with 3 rings on that power house Cowboys team.
I can't show anyone that a QB who never had a great team would perform because there's no evidence but because there's so many QBs that were not so great on bad teams and ended up being very great on great teams I believe that the ones that never got a chance would have done better in better situations. Doug Williams and Steve Young staying on the Bucs would have amounted to nothing. Steve Young becomes an all time great and Williams wins 1 more ring than Marino and Fouts. Doug Flutie I already used as an example. Kyle Orton went from chump to champ in one year stats wise. They actully missed him when he got hurt. They never missed him in Chicago. Cassel goes from NE to KC and suddenly he throws 800 less yards, completes almost ten percent less passes and loses 5 TDs while gaining 5 INTs. Cassel didn't get any worse or better and he's getting a second chance only because of what he showed he could do on a great team.
I've spent years studying and honing my philosophies on this and I came to the conclusion that the only reason the QB is praised the way he is by the NFL is for economical reasons. They have to convince the audience the the difference in QB play was the difference in the game. They still say 2 time super bowl champ Big Ben. He Won them two rings. blah blah blah. That first ring he played so bad they won in spite of him, not because of him, but they'll never come out and say that. Did you hear one single big name analyst say Ben stunk it up and Pit won anyway? At best they said Ben didn't have a big game but it was enough for a win. He went 9 for fucking 21 and barely got 100 yards. The best pass play of the day was from a WR who threw the only TD pass. Ben through zero, but threw two picks. Ben's number's would look bad in 1965. In 2005 they were abysmal. But "he" got the ring. Fuck that. I can think for myself.
--- End quote ---
the thing is youre basing this on YOUR own opinion of who is great or not. So that way...you can never be wrong in your theory. You have used Brady as your example when the rest of the world considers him a great QB. Am I fan of Brady? Hell no. Do I think Peyton is a better QB? Yes. Do I think Peyton would be a great QB if he played for...i dunno....the Bills this whole time? Yes. Montana without a doubt had better teams than Marino. I believe Marino is a better QB than Montana. And that opinion is shared by many. Not all, but many. Does the system matter...yes. Is it everything? Of course not. If the system was everything....QB's wouldnt be paid what they are. It is without a shadow of a doubt, THE most important position on th field. Offense like is huge...but that isnt a position. Its a group of positions. So yes, have a good or great QB means almost everything when it comes to winning in this league. Again, there ARE always exception to every rule. But if Im gonna bet....I'll go with the numbers.
--- End quote ---
I think Brady is great. I just don't think he's great enough to win anywhere, and that is where I differ from most of the rest of the people I argue with.
Brees showed us that he can go from very good to elite in a few seasons after injury. Did he somehow become a better player, or is the new system responsible? Would NO have won with Grossman? No, but there are more QBs that Sean Peyton could have won with other than Brees than there are systems Brees could have won with besides Payton's.
Brees is now one of the great QBs in the league. But if it were the Lions that picked him up instead of the Saints he my have sat home the last year with nowhere to play. That's my point.
--- End quote ---
Maybe a combination of the system and Brees improving. Rivers did pretty well stepping in for Brees. And Yeah there are other QBs Sean Peyton could of won with....but those other QB's would be Manning, Brady, etc. If you put just an above average QB in there...they wouldnt have made it past the Vikes...the Colts...and would not have been 13-3..
M Dogg™:
What you are forgetting is that his last year on the Chargers... Brees had a career year for that time. San Diego gave up on him and he was only 3-4 years in the league. They thought he'd never be the answer. They drafted Rivers, and then Brees just came up and did better than San Diego thought he'd ever do. They figured it was a fluke and traded him well he still had value. Brees was not a benefactor to his new system, he just matured at a certain time. I was always hoping this for Russell, and maybe someday it will happen. But not as a Raider.
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