Rocky Marciano

[LyRiCaL_G]

Overrated or underrated?

If y'all know your boxing history, discuss...if you want...

[Shallow]

It's really hard to judge this from our vantage point. On paper it seems he was unbeatable, but as dirty as boxing is you know a bunch of fight were fixed, but that doesn't mean he would have lost. It's like Ali, I know for a fact both Liston fights were fixed, but that doesn't mean Ali wouldn't have won anyway. Rules matter too. In today's game Marciano may have had a few fight stopped or lost by points. HE did have a Tyson like start to his career; 16 KOs only one making it to the 5th round. Then he won a decision and then KOed a bunch more. All we know is he destroyed just about everyone he went up against and won the other few by points.

[LyRiCaL_G]

^^

See to me, again since we're younger cats, we can only judge from what we've seen and heard and what he has been done on paper. We were not part of that generation or the one after or so to really know the general thoughts back then but dude is an interesting topic.

Again, about the liston fights...they were both controversial and liston was like the tyson of alis era and there has always been talk of whether there were fixed or not. Some people say liston refused to fix the fight and ali beat him naturally. Regardless, like you said, Ali may have won them fights naturally anyway. Anyway i was not really intending to get Ali involved in this topic so much since to me ali is the greatest heavyweight. The has also been discussion about certain marciano fights being fixed but again we don't know for sure.

The reason i ask the question is because as you say, his record is undefeated but his era was not as great as alis in terms of the pool of boxing talent without question and he also had fights with alot of people at the end of their careers. It's always been a big debate about how good he was or how unlucky he was because of the era he was involved within.

Without doubt amongst the great heavyweights to me but was he better than he gets given credit for or was he overrated because of who he was and when he faught and the fact he had a zero on his record...any other thoughs?

[Shallow]

Like I said, it's hard to judge eras because of rules. And it's hard to discuss over rated and over hyped with Ali. For example in modern rules Ali would beat Chuval on points after 12 rounds 10 out of 10 times. In 20s rules with no round limit Chuvalo would kill him by KO every time. I'm sorry to trump your bouncing hero, but I can't judge Marciano's opponents because I don't know any of them. The only big names he beat were past their prime. Of course none of that matter, because it comes down to who would win, and who would win based on who they beat doesn't always matter. Hearns couldn't beat Leonard, Leonard had a tough time with and lost once to Duran, and Hearns killed Duran. If Hearns and Leonard never fight and you based how they would fare on how they beat Duran then you'd give a huge edge to Hearns.

I don't know how Marciano would fare against the all time greats in their prime, but pound for pound and steroid for steroid needs to be factored in. Also rule for rule. If boxing never changed the rules from the Dempsey era then George Chuvalo may have remembered as the greatest all time, and by a lot. Dude never fell down once in his whole career. He lost a lot on points and a couple stoppages which he was more than capable of continuing and in 30s rules would not have been stopped.

All I know is the paper says Marciano beat every guy they put in front of him and that's the best anyone can do.

[O.G A.Geesta'z]

Best Heavyweight to ever step in the ring... i personally think he could of knocked Ali out

[LyRiCaL_G]

^^def amongst the best ever heavyweights without doubt but not the best. Personally I think in terms of the heavyweight division, iin boxing circles ali is considered the best heavyweight ever. Even not just in boxing circles and outside, he is a figure of huge respect even amongst casual fans. There is a reason why he is called the greatest and thats not just dude said it. People are still saying it today years and years after. He was not just someone who poeple ignored once he finished.

Speaking of ali however, some people tend to hate on him due to him changing his name, religion, being black etc but if you just look at dudes career, what he achieved, against who and how he did what he did, the best without question in my opinion in the heavyweight divison. Some will tell you his overrated because of how much respect he has earned over the years but with greatness comes a lot of hate too. He has a great record too in terms of who he had fights with.

Johnson, louis, marciano and ali, legends of the heavyweights...theres way more too obviously, but just mentioning a few!

[O.G A.Geesta'z]

Imma say it like this Rocky is boxing and Ali is bigger then just boxing

[Shallow]

Imma say it like this Rocky is boxing and Ali is bigger then just boxing

And OJ is bigger than Football. That doesn't make him the better than Jim Brown.

[Bluemercury]

He had a lot of wins over names that were past their prime.

Ultimate Donaire vs Montel HL
http://bit.ly/ete7ZN

[Shallow]

He had a lot of wins over names that were past their prime.

Ultimate Donaire vs Montel HL
http://bit.ly/ete7ZN

Yeah, but no losses. And no only knocked down twice in his career by the Champ he took the belt from and in his final bout.


There's really no way of knowing who was better from different eras. Even in the same eras, with all the fixed fights, you'll never know. Was Marciano a better boxer than Ali based on technical ability and measurable skills? No. But could he have beaten Ali with a KO punch? Yes.