What do you think of LeBron's overall performance in the Finals?

[Tha A]

And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.

It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).

no doubt

I saw Jordan play extensively; he's the best I've ever seen, and I started watching in the late 80's.  No one since is on his level.  As for before that, its a tough call.  A lot of shit is subjective, but intangibles, opinions, and MEDIA and ADVERTISING INFLUENCE aside, his 6 titles, 6 MVP's, career PPG, and numerous other accolades is all that is needed.  None of that shit has to do with marketing or media.

I started watching in the early 80's and I also saw Jordan play extensively, despite the fact that in the 90's he was always destroying my team (Knicks) he was everyone's idol, including me. Now to say that nobody has been on his level is just stupid, like people who never watch basketball do.

Trying to compare different positions and styles is almost impossible... I mean to say that Jordan is above the level of Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, Timmy... is just dumb, they played different positions and had different styles and qualities. You can never put intangibles aside... Was MJ helped by the NBA when they started to realize he was the most efficient and maybe only money making machine in the 90's? Yes. Did MJ win most of his titles when the league was going through expansion and talent was concentrated on lesser teams? Yes. Did the media blow all of what he did out of proportion? Yes, they still do, and that flu game is still the most corny thing ever lmao. Did great players like Pippen get overlooked because of it? Of course. Helped by the refs? All the time, he started that.

All of his swagger, the time he started to play, the time he was in his prime, his athleticism and talent were like perfectly combined for all that to happen. When somebody talks about the GOAT, ignorant people always say Jordan without a doubt, above everyone else... What about a guy like Kareem? I could make a perfect argument for him against Jordan.

Now with that all being said, Jordan is one of the greatest no doubt, out of this world talent and athleticism, splendid work ethic and will to win, amazing legacy and great games against great teams. Arguments can be made for him in regards of being the GOAT no doubt. Now to say he is just clearly above anyone else and wasn't overhyped is just plain dumb.

[Tha A]

Shaq at it again!!!  The media!!!  Nike and Gatorade!!!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png

The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point.   He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games.  I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ.  And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).   


Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan.  People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts.  Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc.  Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.

What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.

[teecee]

Shaq at it again!!!  The media!!!  Nike and Gatorade!!!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png

The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point.   He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games.  I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ.  And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).   


Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan.  People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts.  Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc.  Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.

What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.

Hold up.  Check my post history or something before you start saying my posts are childish, I don't even know who you are man.   Anyway, all i was doing was saying, lets forget about things that can't truly be measured or agreed upon, like intangibles.  And Kareem is the shit, no doubt, I never saw him play, but i've got mad respect for him.  His longevity is unmatched.   

And for the record, the flu game...never really hit me like that, same as Dirk in the finals this year.  Who knows how sick these guys really were?  I say if your playing then you are considered good to go. 

Anyway, clearly you missed what I was saying.  To me, its actually MORE childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing, but thats just me...

[Tha A]

Shaq at it again!!!  The media!!!  Nike and Gatorade!!!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png

The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point.   He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games.  I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ.  And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).   


Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan.  People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts.  Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc.  Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.

What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.

Hold up.  Check my post history or something before you start saying my posts are childish, I don't even know who you are man.   Anyway, all i was doing was saying, lets forget about things that can't truly be measured or agreed upon, like intangibles.  And Kareem is the shit, no doubt, I never saw him play, but i've got mad respect for him.  His longevity is unmatched.   

And for the record, the flu game...never really hit me like that, same as Dirk in the finals this year.  Who knows how sick these guys really were?  I say if your playing then you are considered good to go. 

Anyway, clearly you missed what I was saying.  To me, its actually MORE childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing, but thats just me...

It's all good man, I wasn't talking about you specifically. It's childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing no doubt about that, but it's also ignorant to just say this guy is better simply because he had more accomplishments, you also have to look at intangibles and the little things without letting opinions or personal bias get in the way of course. And that's what I think too, when you're on the court, even if you're really hurt or whatever, just give it all you got, screw the rest.

[Tha A]

Let me just put it like this, if MJ was in his prime along with the best Bulls team (the first 3peat team for me was the best, although the 96 one is more recognizable due to the record) through the 80's, he wouldn't be winning all those titles and MVP's, of course I ain't saying he wouldn't be winning nothing, it's MJ we're talking about here, and that Bulls team was very good, but all those titles and accomplishments would be really trimmed down. That's not what happened though, he had a great career and was amazing, but nobody can't deny the timing was perfect and he was overhyped and still is, because being one the GOAT's doesn't put nobody really above the other ones on that list, it's really hard to compare, even harder with different positions.

[Sccit]

NIK:  I guess Kobe playing with Shaq really held Kobe back.  This would explain why, despite playing a few more games overall than Jordan, Kobe is

1000 STEALS,
1000 REBOUNDS
600  ASSISTS
300 BLOCKS
(Don't make me mention points, or any playoff stats.  It's not fair)

behind Jordan.


over 200 more turnovers too.  Must all be because of playing with Shaq.  Or the media.  Or advertising.  Or the refs.    No hyperbole, opinion, or any explanation needed.  Jordan was on some next shit.  If you guys only remember watching him on the Wizards, or even in his last few years with the Bulls, then you don't get it.  Yes, dude was a fucking asshole.  Most of these guys are.

it makes perfect sense...kobe didnt have a team to himself for the first half of his career . he also ran the triangle for basically his whole career . notice how jordans stats fell off drastically in his championship years when he started running  the triangle ...

[Chamillitary Click]

^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.

[Sccit]

^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.

i bet ud like to know, u fucking fruitcake.

[Chamillitary Click]

^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.

i bet ud like to know, u fucking fruitcake.

LOL, angry.

[wcsoldier]

As I can read this forum has not changed ... ( always Kobe/Lebron BS ... what has Kobe to do with the topic ? ..)

Back on topic ,  his performance/attitude on the court just showed he's ok with losing , he did not even try hard at all , he passed up on a good amount of shots , just careless attitude ...  he was cruising through games like it was the regular season ... I don't care if you go 5 out of 20 , just be involved in the game ( Dirk had some pretty in game bad shooting streaks but he kept forcing the issue and it paid off) ...

 ... and his lack of fundamental skills ( lack of post game , footwork , a dribble stop pull up Js) has been exposed by Dallas doubled teams/Zone D once again .... the bulldozer mode isn't enough to dominate clever D

[LooN3y]

As I can read this forum has not changed ... ( always Kobe/Lebron BS ... what has Kobe to do with the topic ? ..)

Back on topic ,  his performance/attitude on the court just showed he's ok with losing , he did not even try hard at all , he passed up on a good amount of shots , just careless attitude ...  he was cruising through games like it was the regular season ... I don't care if you go 5 out of 20 , just be involved in the game ( Dirk had some pretty in game bad shooting streaks but he kept forcing the issue and it paid off) ...

 ... and his lack of fundamental skills ( lack of post game , footwork , a dribble stop pull up Js) has been exposed by Dallas doubled teams/Zone D once again .... the bulldozer mode isn't enough to dominate clever D

homie, its kobe/lebron every where, no matter where u go itll be brought up if not kobe/lebron its kobe/mj it never ends its not only here.