Fred Wreck on a Death Row Album(2002-Gangsta Rap Instrumental????)

[OG Jaydc]

Roll with us had completely different beats on the two albums. I preferred the 2002 version.


2002 was dope for what it was, a compilation.

Smoke was easily my favorite song on the album.

[Quadruple OG]

Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version?  what are the differences?

Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.

[kuruptDPG]

400,000 copies? really?

[awol22222]

400,000 copies? really?

Source?

[love33]

400,000 copies? really?

Source?

Damon X (Above The Law's Manager) confirmed that both TGFR and Tha Dogg Pound 2002 were Gold together.  Tha Dogg Pound was well above 400,000.  I believe it charted Top 20 on its first week.

[love33]

Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version?  what are the differences?

Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.

Yeah, people forget that Death Row recorded 5 versions of a lot of tracks which were potential singles (sometimes they would switch artists).  Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case."  I personally like both versions of "Roll Wit Us," Chronic 2000 for the heavy bass and Dogg Pound 2002 gives it a different twist with those background vocals.

[awol22222]

Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version?  what are the differences?

Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.

 Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case."

Link?

[love33]

Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version?  what are the differences?

Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.

 Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case."

Link?

Here I uploaded it for you:

http://www.zshare.net/audio/92721032f4eb8156/

[Jimmy H.]

Naw, what I'm sayin is that Suge did a genius move by acquiring the rights to the track by giving Jay-Z the rights to sample Pac's "Me and My Girlfriend" and in exchange Jay-Z would go recruit Dogg Pound to record with the intent of trading the rights to Suge.  It worked out well for both camps because Death Row/Suge was able to use the radio success to sell the album and Jay-Z got the rights to Pac's music so he could go record "03 Bonnie and Clyde."

But they (Death Row) weren't pushing it as a big radio single, they had "Just Doggin". Jay wouldn't have gone into record "Me and My Girlfriend" for at least another year and the remix had already been used on an album that had been out for close to a half a year. You have a severe tedency to overexaggerate the level of radio spins a lot of these songs get as well. Given that Clue didn't push it as a radio single for his project, I doubt it was just randomly blowing up L.A. radio. It should also be noted that the rights to the very same song were given to JT The Bigga Figga for his "Game For Sale" compilation that he did with Daz and he sure didn't have any Tupac publishing to give up for it. That project came out in March 2001, the Death Row one dropped in the middle of the summer. In promotional terms, the buzz would have been long dead.  So the fact is that song had very little odds of making a major impact in terms of cross-marketing. You have no real numbers or facts to show anything, just a bunch of heresay.

[love33]

Naw, what I'm sayin is that Suge did a genius move by acquiring the rights to the track by giving Jay-Z the rights to sample Pac's "Me and My Girlfriend" and in exchange Jay-Z would go recruit Dogg Pound to record with the intent of trading the rights to Suge.  It worked out well for both camps because Death Row/Suge was able to use the radio success to sell the album and Jay-Z got the rights to Pac's music so he could go record "03 Bonnie and Clyde."

But they (Death Row) weren't pushing it as a big radio single, they had "Just Doggin". Jay wouldn't have gone into record "Me and My Girlfriend" for at least another year and the remix had already been used on an album that had been out for close to a half a year. You have a severe tedency to overexaggerate the level of radio spins a lot of these songs get as well. Given that Clue didn't push it as a radio single for his project, I doubt it was just randomly blowing up L.A. radio. It should also be noted that the rights to the very same song were given to JT The Bigga Figga for his "Game For Sale" compilation that he did with Daz and he sure didn't have any Tupac publishing to give up for it. That project came out in March 2001, the Death Row one dropped in the middle of the summer. In promotional terms, the buzz would have been long dead.  So the fact is that song had very little odds of making a major impact in terms of cross-marketing. You have no real numbers or facts to show anything, just a bunch of heresay.

MTV had an article about the album back in the day on their mtvnews site and it talked about how Suge and Jay-Z were dealing (Suge was also dealing with Ja Rule at the time and nearly signed him).  But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere.  It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1445080/death-row-release-dogg-pound.jhtml

Here's the real facts:

"The Row also secured the rights to include the remix of Jay-Z's "Change Tha Game" on the album."
Also, Kurupt was fully 100% supportive of the project: Kurupt said Suge's move is something he would've done himself. "I'm shocked he ain't been did it," Kurupt said recently. "I'm a fan now. I'm ready to buy it.

[Jimmy H.]

Yes, they secured the rights to it. So did JT The Bigga Figga. That's not what's being disputed.

But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere.  It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.

What are you basing this off of? The original version of the song was already promoted as a single. The remix probably had a decent buzz with the mixtapes but it was done for Clue's project. It wasn't like "Regulate" where Death Row had the money and marketing to capitalize off it properly and cross-promote with Def Jam. It was just a newer Dogg Pound song that they licensed so they could have a Jay-Z feature on their project. Anybody that wasn't a diehard West Coast fan would have bought the song on the album that it came out on and not waited all that time for it. And how do you now what clubs or radio stations spun the record? It wasn't some monster hit record so I can't see why DJ's across the country would feel compelled to spin it everywhere or how if they did, you would know? Few things to consider.

1) DJ Clue and his label, Desert Storm, already had the album out for months and never officially pushed it a single. So unless all these DJ's bought "Professional 2" on vinyl and loved that song enough that they decided to play it on their own, it wouldn't have had a huge enough buzz. Given that "Professional 2" only went gold and was never meant to be a mainstream crossover project, I doubt people were spinning that record close enough to 2002's release date to make that much of an impact on the sales chart. 

2) Jay-Z, at this point, was in between albums in terms of promotion. Def Jam was finishing up pushing the last single ("Guility Until Proven Innocent") off La Familia and moving on to building hype for "Blueprint".

3) Suge would have been in prison when both the song was recorded and when it was licensed to Death Row so I doubt he was comfortable enough with Jay-Z to influence him directly beforehand to make a song he could capitalize off of. And seeing as Daz was already allowed to use it himself for the collabo project with JT, this would have been the third official project to feature it.

As I've pointed out, you have a tendency to name off songs that were supposedly massive radio and club hits in regions that I'm not sure even ever played them so unless you got a link, I'm not buying.

Radio stations and even major club venues are influenced by chart position, any time you mention a song from a certain period getting heavy rotation in numerous regions when there's no proof that a promotional vinyl was ever pressed for the street teams to send out, let alone an actual chart position that would justify that kind of attention, it's a little questionable. 

[J$crILLa]

decent albums and dope tracks. i know i was BUMPIN ALL THIS DPG / DJ CLUE & even JAY back then. shit was bangin here in the midwest!

[love33]

--Nobody was even lookin for JT The Bigga Figga; he didn't even sell a smell of the units that "2002" moved (over 400,000 for "2002")
--I was in San Diego and they played that shit on the radio left and right, and I also heard it in rotation in Miami when I was back there...and the shit was in rotation in New York because of Jay-Z being on it and NY was on Jay-Z's nutsack during that time period; Jay had a similar huge following in the midwest and they were snuffin up anything they could get their hands on and rotate that had him on it
--You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot
--Yes, Death Row's came out after it was on Clue's but a lot of people didn't know to look for Clue's album to find a DPG/Jay-Z track so when Dogg Pound dropped they just milked the sales on it as radio stations were still playin it -- "2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)
--DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...get out of here with that JT The Bigga Figga comparison cause nobody even looked at that shit

Yes, they secured the rights to it. So did JT The Bigga Figga. That's not what's being disputed.

But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere.  It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.

What are you basing this off of? The original version of the song was already promoted as a single. The remix probably had a decent buzz with the mixtapes but it was done for Clue's project. It wasn't like "Regulate" where Death Row had the money and marketing to capitalize off it properly and cross-promote with Def Jam. It was just a newer Dogg Pound song that they licensed so they could have a Jay-Z feature on their project. Anybody that wasn't a diehard West Coast fan would have bought the song on the album that it came out on and not waited all that time for it. And how do you now what clubs or radio stations spun the record? It wasn't some monster hit record so I can't see why DJ's across the country would feel compelled to spin it everywhere or how if they did, you would know? Few things to consider.

1) DJ Clue and his label, Desert Storm, already had the album out for months and never officially pushed it a single. So unless all these DJ's bought "Professional 2" on vinyl and loved that song enough that they decided to play it on their own, it wouldn't have had a huge enough buzz. Given that "Professional 2" only went gold and was never meant to be a mainstream crossover project, I doubt people were spinning that record close enough to 2002's release date to make that much of an impact on the sales chart. 

2) Jay-Z, at this point, was in between albums in terms of promotion. Def Jam was finishing up pushing the last single ("Guility Until Proven Innocent") off La Familia and moving on to building hype for "Blueprint".

3) Suge would have been in prison when both the song was recorded and when it was licensed to Death Row so I doubt he was comfortable enough with Jay-Z to influence him directly beforehand to make a song he could capitalize off of. And seeing as Daz was already allowed to use it himself for the collabo project with JT, this would have been the third official project to feature it.

As I've pointed out, you have a tendency to name off songs that were supposedly massive radio and club hits in regions that I'm not sure even ever played them so unless you got a link, I'm not buying.

Radio stations and even major club venues are influenced by chart position, any time you mention a song from a certain period getting heavy rotation in numerous regions when there's no proof that a promotional vinyl was ever pressed for the street teams to send out, let alone an actual chart position that would justify that kind of attention, it's a little questionable. 

[Jimmy H.]

They didn't know to look for it on the DJ Clue album when the song has fucking DJ Clue tags on it? Uh huh. Even if that fucker where a pressed single being actively pushed, it would have played itself out of rotation in less than 2 months with no video or artist backing. Jay was do nice numbers then but that song was getting massive spins, sir.

You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot

No. I didn't say that. I said "Change The Game" was an actual single. The remix wasn't. Remix might have gotten a buzz with hip-hop heads through a mix show or had a decent following but it wasn't a top 40 hip-hop hit in any radio market in the country. You're not showing me any real numbers, you're imbellishing some story about how you left Miami for a week and supposedly heard it all over the radio in San Diego so that by default means it must have been big in New York. It still seems like a backtrack on how you knew that it was supposedly blowing up in every club in the country.

DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...

Where are you getting this info? I'm reading its peak chart position at #34.

"2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap" 

You're damn right. In fact, I'll raise you one better. It didn't sell because of radio at all. It sold because it advertised in rap magazines using the "Dogg Pound" name and boasted a single that was falsely listed as "produced by Dr. Dre", combine that with a guest list featuring an unreleased Tupac track, Xzibit, Snoop, Jay-Z, and many others. Given that people were still regularly buying CD's, it did quite well but it still sold less than Snoop's "Dead Man Walkin" which also had no radio play and even less in terms of features.

The JT Bigga Figga comparison wasn't made as argument of sales. It was done as a challenge that 1) the song rights would have required Suge's marketing genius to acquire and 2) would have been a huge difference in terms of sales. If the song was a monster radio/club hit, why didn't Fig also see a surprising rise in his sales (like he did when he put out a Game album six months before Aftermath) or why didn't the song propel "2002" higher than "Dead Man Walking" which had no radio single.

Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)

Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.

[MarshColin]

They didn't know to look for it on the DJ Clue album when the song has fucking DJ Clue tags on it? Uh huh. Even if that fucker where a pressed single being actively pushed, it would have played itself out of rotation in less than 2 months with no video or artist backing. Jay was do nice numbers then but that song was getting massive spins, sir.

You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot

No. I didn't say that. I said "Change The Game" was an actual single. The remix wasn't. Remix might have gotten a buzz with hip-hop heads through a mix show or had a decent following but it wasn't a top 40 hip-hop hit in any radio market in the country. You're not showing me any real numbers, you're imbellishing some story about how you left Miami for a week and supposedly heard it all over the radio in San Diego so that by default means it must have been big in New York. It still seems like a backtrack on how you knew that it was supposedly blowing up in every club in the country.

DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...

Where are you getting this info? I'm reading its peak chart position at #34.

"2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap" 

You're damn right. In fact, I'll raise you one better. It didn't sell because of radio at all. It sold because it advertised in rap magazines using the "Dogg Pound" name and boasted a single that was falsely listed as "produced by Dr. Dre", combine that with a guest list featuring an unreleased Tupac track, Xzibit, Snoop, Jay-Z, and many others. Given that people were still regularly buying CD's, it did quite well but it still sold less than Snoop's "Dead Man Walkin" which also had no radio play and even less in terms of features.

The JT Bigga Figga comparison wasn't made as argument of sales. It was done as a challenge that 1) the song rights would have required Suge's marketing genius to acquire and 2) would have been a huge difference in terms of sales. If the song was a monster radio/club hit, why didn't Fig also see a surprising rise in his sales (like he did when he put out a Game album six months before Aftermath) or why didn't the song propel "2002" higher than "Dead Man Walking" which had no radio single.

Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)

Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.

LMAO @ the KDAY thing. I agree though, the majority of 2002 was sold because the names Dr. Dre, 2Pac, Snoop Dogg, and Tha Dogg Pound were all attached to it. Gangsta Rap & Jus Doggin didn't make any noise and the buzz and hype about Change the Game remix had already died down by the time 2002 was released.