Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Prince Paul is def. top 5 material. He's been producing on classics as long as Dre, plus he put out one of the greatest albums of all time. And I'd put RZA above Dre for all the classic Wu albums. Not only that but the guy is still relevant today. He's transcended the role of hip hop producer to the point where he's scoring soundtracks for movies. One of Dr. Dre's goals is to score movies, something which the RZA has already accomplished. My list probably goes RZA, Dre, Primo, Prince Paul, Pete Rock.

Dre did some scoring on "Bad Boys 2". I would put RZA up there as well but I feel like he gets a pass in areas where nobody would ever let Dre slide. He's kind of allowed to just make good music without people holding up the classics he's done for comparative purposes. It's like this. I don't think Michael Jackson ever topped "Thriller" but he was still an icon until the day he died because he created that blueprint for the guys who became the new stars like Usher and Justin Timberlake. Same with Madonna and her influence on Britney and Lady Gaga. Same with Nate Dogg and these artists who came through today.

You missed the point completely.

He's in the top 5 as far as GOAT hip hop producers, along with RZA, Primo, Prince Paul and Pete Rock. Whatever wack shit he puts out nowadays isn't going to take away from his past accomplishments.

[Jimmy H.]

Basically, at this point, I expect Dre to continue to decline as the years progress.  Artists are like athletes in that you rise and fall, peak and decline.  I mean, after Quincy Jones produced Thriller, it was a gradual decline after that.  Same thing with Dre and The Chronic, his best album (artistically speaking).

No, artists are not like athletes. Athletes' bodies break down as they get older. No matter how much heart or natural talent a 45-year-old man has, he needs to work much, much harder to keep up with a twenty-year-old on a physical level. The reason that Michael Jordan was so mediocre on the Wizards is because he no longer had a young man's body.

Music producers are not the same. A guy in his 40's, 50's, 60's, can still make great music. There is the challenge, creatively, to top what you have created before, but it is FAR, FAR more acheivable on a technical level for an older music producer to compete with a younger one than it is for an athlete to keep up with his younger peers. And your Quincy Jones analogy don't much work. Quincy was pushing 50 with thirty years in the music business when he made "Thriller". He was about Dre's age now when he first started working with Michael Jackson. And maybe you have more info than I do but what is this "gradual decline" you're speaking on? He followed it up with "Bad", which was a huge hit in his own right. Following that, he moved into other business ventures like Vibe Magazine and "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air". I mean, what were these post-Thriller productions you seem to think resulted in his decline anyway?

[I_ThePope_I]

Yes Dre is the best producer ever and he's better than he's ever been sonically, as shown on Relapse.

[Fonkarround]

Yes Dre is the best producer ever and he's better than he's ever been sonically, as shown on Relapse.

It was average album. I wouldnt say it was on higher level than anything from Dre.

[Dre-Day]

Dr. Dre is the greatest producer in the history of hip hop, but he is well past his prime.  Right now, he is barely above average as a producer.  Clearly his artistic skills are declining.  Mind you, I'm not talking about pure studio craft, but the artistry that enables a piece of music to transcend its genre confines and become something more than what it is on the surface.

I'm one of those Chronic era listeners referred to earlier in the thread, and I'm glad b. laden brought it up, because while 2001 is imo the greatest mixed and mastered (and overall engineered) hip hop album of all time, the actual musicality of it for me is clearly a step down from Dre's prime, which was his three album run with Elife4zaggin, Chronic and Doggystyle.  That's why I frequently say I won't truly get excited about Dre's current music until I see him get back to work with people with whom he collaborated during his prime, such as The Glove and Colin Wolfe.  I really don't care about Scott Storch's involvement, to be honest with you.  I could take it or leave it.

you really expect them to bring dre back on track?  they are talented, but don't be foolish

Anyway, I've used this analogy before, but I'll repeat it here because I think it fits well.

• Straight Outta Compton and prior = Michael Jordan in the mid-to-late 80s, when you could tell both had amazing pure talent; they just had to learn had to package it all together
• The three album run I mentioned earlier = Michael Jordan during his first three-peat
• Then you have the sort of Death Row fallout and Aftermath compilation/Firm flop = MJ's turn to baseball and return with the #45 jersey
• 2001 = MJ's second three-peat; you could tell Dre and MJ in both situations were not as good as they had been earlier in the primes, but since they were so far ahead of the pack in their primes, even with some fall off they were still best in the game
• post 2001 to around 2006 = MJ with the Wizards; still very good at what they do, but the decline was evident to even the casual observer
• And today's Dre and henceforth = post-Wizards MJ had he not gotten injured, barely above average, if that.

Basically, at this point, I expect Dre to continue to decline as the years progress.  Artists are like athletes in that you rise and fall, peak and decline.  I mean, after Quincy Jones produced Thriller, it was a gradual decline after that.  Same thing with Dre and The Chronic, his best album (artistically speaking).

i don't think dre can do worse, the timbaland influence is bad enough

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

"wine gets better wit time", thats  the slang.. but the analogy isnt correct wit music imo. acting, sure -- but not in music i think.

composers n artists r always havin a hard time, when theyre tryin to transcend thruout their original music-barriers. it happens,, but its not common
producers like Quioncy Jones, artis like Michael Jackson, rappers like Busta Rhymes n E-40 managed to re-invent themselves wit great results, n manaegd to cater to new generations

but generally, artists taht had a "peak" in the careers, had just that -- a "peak" n nothin more,, n then never managed to keep up thruout the yrs.
Dr Dre is followin the same path of GOAT-producers from his generation,,, Primo, Large Pro, Pete Rock, Erick Sermon... the old cancer-patients r dyin slowly

they can boost up their talents in what they know how "to do",, but the transcference into new musical territory every 10yrs or so is rare.

[bouli77]

"wine gets better wit time", thats  the slang.. but the analogy isnt correct wit music imo. acting, sure -- but not in music i think.

wine gets better with time but not winemakers. the best music produced by dre is timeless but his creativity isn't.

[Black Excellence]

it seems that way.

As far as being the GOAT of producers, he's top 10, but if he was the GOAT he wouldn't need all these co-producers.  Pac said it best when he said he's a bomb producer, but he doesn't produce anything. damn pac said that in 96.

[hitsaw]

Andre is the GOAT

[Black Excellence]

Andre is the GOAT

i think i'll go wit dj premier.

[The Predator]

Dre was the best of the best.

If anyone can rejuvenate hip-hop it's him, but he's struggling.

[Dre-Day]

Dre was the best of the best.

If anyone can rejuvenate hip-hop it's him, but he's struggling.

true

[trilly]

Dre was the west a long time ago, he is no longer relevant, there is a new breed of westcoast.

The forefront runners are artist like Kendrick or Dom Kennedy or even cats like Casey Veggies.  The game has changed, you have a new west coast sound and new flavor in the streets, there is more attention to the lyrics and more jazz, slow drum patterns.  Dre really needs to be selective about this album because by all means, nowadays, "Detox" could really be a dud.

[o g s u e s o n e]

I would say he´s the better mixer but not the GOAT producer. Yall know that theres always a production team behind him. Mixing that work to a highclass beat, thats dres goal.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Hip hop is better right now than it has been in years. What could Dre possibly do to rejuvenate it? At best all he is going to do is put out an album full of party jams and beats that go. And that's IF his album is good. His having an impact is far more likely to just dumb the music down. Just look at his protege.