Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Has Miguel Cabrera wrapped up the MVP award already?
Hack Wilson - real:
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on September 13, 2013, 11:04:02 PM ---Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.
Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.
--- End quote ---
miggy plays 3rd base, that's a lot tougher than playing any outfield spot
AlerG:
--- Quote from: Iveus on September 13, 2013, 09:30:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mr. Bones on September 13, 2013, 08:38:29 PM ---RBI says a lot about a guys value at knocking in runs
why do you think guys like Adam Dunn and Dave Kingman are worthless? because the only RBI they get are from home runs.
--- End quote ---
No it doesn't. It just shows that the player who got the RBI put at least 1 run on the board.
RBI is a team stat because it takes a team effort to earn a lot of them. I'll use the Reds again. The only reason Brandon Phillips has as many RBIs as he does is because he's got Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto, two very high OBP guys, batting before him and they're always on base. And just the other day the Reds tried having Phillips bat 2nd in their lineup and had Jay Bruce hit behind Votto. Lo and behold Phillips had zero RBIs to speak of while Bruce picked up at least 5 (I can't remember the exact number) in that game.
Bottom line, RBIs don't matter when it comes to judging players individually. They tell us absolutely nothing about how valuable they are to their team, just that they happened to make contact at the right time. If you think otherwise than you're too attached to all those "old-school baseball" cliches.
It's the 21st century, all those old stats like .AVG, RBIs, HRs, Wins, Losses, ERAs, SOs don't matter nowadays as they once did. There's all sorts of new stats now to help better determine how valuable a player is like babip, iso, so/bb ratio, those to show how valuable players are defensively like UZR and those to kind of show how valuable the player is the team like WAR.
Anyway, if you're looking for a stat that'll judge how good a player is in a "clutch" situation where the player could potentially get an RBI, there's this stat called .RISP (runners in scoring position) which measures a player's batting average with runners in scoring position. That's a lot more credible as an individual stat than RBI will ever be.
--- End quote ---
Miggy all day. MVP. Go Tigers.
Ghost Drebin:
--- Quote from: Mr. Bones on September 13, 2013, 11:24:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on September 13, 2013, 11:04:02 PM ---Trout is a much more complete player than Miggy and would have been MVP last year and this year if not for the fact that Angels are awful.
Miggy is the best hitter in the league, no question, but there's far more to baseball than just batting.
--- End quote ---
miggy plays 3rd base, that's a lot tougher than playing any outfield spot
--- End quote ---
You are wrong so much in this thread it hurts. RBI's are a byproduct of hits. Trout has more hits, so the fact he has less RBI's is meaningless. It is a team stat, not an individual stat. They bat in different positions as well. If you think that 3rd base is more important defensively than centerfield then you should go choke yourself.
Hack Wilson - real:
3rd base is more valuable...all of the infield is harder to play outside of 1st base
and Trout has ONE more hit in many more at-bats...that ain't shit
RBI's are important...you can't win without knocking runners in, can you?
Ghost Drebin:
--- Quote from: Mr. Bones on September 16, 2013, 05:17:55 PM ---3rd base is more valuable...all of the infield is harder to play outside of 1st base
and Trout has ONE more hit in many more at-bats...that ain't shit
RBI's are important...you can't win without knocking runners in, can you?
--- End quote ---
You make my head hurt. RBI's are not a measure of a batters performance. A batter could bat leadoff get over 200 hits and have shit for RBI's because no one is on base, Ichiro is a great example. Does that mean he is less of a hitter than a guy who may get 100 hits with people on 2nd and 3rd so they will have many more RBI's? I mean do you really think that Trout has more runners on base batting lead off and second for the lowly Angels, than Cabrera does batting 4th for the Tigers??? They are NOT a valid stat for measuring individual performance, because they are influenced by outside variables, such as the quality of the players surrounding him. Now I'm sure you are going to argue that counts for other stats too like HR's with no one protecting the player, but overall, RBI's are not used any longer as a yardstick of performance.
And it's common knowledge that A good quality centerfielder will get more outs per game than a good quality 3rd baseman. More balls are hit to a wide range having centerfielder on average, thus more outs are produced. You would not say a SS is less important than a 3rd baseman, and this is the same logic.
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