Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Shocking documentary about Islam - The world's most dangerous cult!
abusive:
--- Quote from: V2DHeart on December 02, 2015, 02:24:00 PM ---Sorry to break it to you kid, but the bible is one of the most violent books there is quoting all kinds of violence.
Samuel 15:3,8
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys
I won't waste my time quoting any more, but it promotes rape and murder IF you read it. Like any complex religious book it can be exploited and used as an excuse.
Hitler was an orthodox Christian, and believed to be behind the genocide of millions. The KKK were Christians. That Norway shooter that shot and killed a lot of children a few years back was a Christian. Are we going to jump to brandishing Christianity as a religion of mass murderous psychopaths? Of course not. It appears you have fallen for the propaganda hook, line and sinker.
There are over 1 billion Muslims in the world. If it really did promote murder, death and terror, we'd all be dead
--- End quote ---
Hitler was a Roman Catholic, the KKK was started by Freemason Albert Pike, doesn't matter what the norway shooter claims to be his inspiration wasn't the bible. Try again.
--- Quote from: V2DHeart on December 02, 2015, 02:38:47 PM ---One more quote:
Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
This vile verse does not come from the Qur'an, but from the bible. One of many!
A paid militia group can go around ripping pregnant women open, it does not make Christianity evil, it makes the men who carry out such acts and misuse the religion as an excuse, evil! Blame the man behind his actions, not the religion he wants to hide behind. a small minority should not represent all. That's like saying all black people are rappers. It's very narrow minded
--- End quote ---
You keep attacking Christianity yet you haven't shown the words of Christ promoting violence or telling his followers to commit acts of violence like the video does for Muhammad. Instead you are showing old testament verses that Christians don't live by obviously because you don;t understand the bible in its full context. This is a open challenge to you or anyone reading this to show from the teachings of Jesus Christ who is the inspiration for Christianity, promoting violence in anyway. I'll wait. As I said before, even if you could it wouldn't change a single fact shown in this video. Islam would still be every single thing it said it is.
abusive:
--- Quote from: bouli77 on December 02, 2015, 04:20:46 PM ---Well I don't know the type of individuals you have to deal with on a daily basis but my muslim friends, my muslim co-workers and my muslim pupils were unequivocally shocked and horrified by the attacks... maybe because actual Muslims (as opposed to terrorists, who are not real muslims and who do not represent Islam) were also killed in the attacks and also because they knew someone who knew someone who got killed or experienced the attacks whether in the stadium or in the street of Paris.
Your comparison with Brevik isn't really relevant. Muslims feel uneasy not about the attacks but about the stigma that they encounter on a daily basis out here. Being unjustly discriminated against, stereotyped, disrespected on a daily basis by incompetent and biased media, employers, the police and targeted by a portion of the population creates frustration and uneasiness, which serves as fuel for ISIS to spread and incept their hateful propaganda on the weak minded and the lost, hopeless individuals of society. If you read on those who participated in the attacks, you'll find out that they were not pious and spiritual believers, but instead petty criminals convicted for selling weed and other petty crimes / offenses with no future, others were pretty common youth, clubbing, drinking hard liquor and partying again with no stable situation and promising future and mentally unstable young people who couldn't fit into society. What you have to realize is that most of these dudes going to Syria and shit aren't arabs in the first place, more than half are actually White converts who are so lost that they get easily lured into what they believe is religion but is in reality propaganda. ISIS is very good at targeting European born locals whether of Arab descent or not and brainwash them into thinking like them. They use basic anti-western / conspirationist propaganda (i.e. your country hates Muslims / your country is run by Jews / your country is paying for their sins in the Arab world etc.). And your reaction, basically stigmatising and generalising the reactions of a few to an entire community, is actually what they use to convince feeble individuals that they cause is just, like "look, they don't love you in your own country and they doubt you, you should act as a real muslim and join us and fight these non-believers"
I compiled a lot of the reactions after the attacks (through social media, newspaper websites, various biased websites from all sides of the spectrum (right wing, conspirationist friendly, leftist), to get a spectrum and a rough estimate of what was the general feeling among the French population, Muslims included. And here's what I got, more or less :
90% were sympathetic to the victims families
20% were hateful or revengeful (shit happens all the time in Palestine, no one mourns them, the French pay for their colonial and neo-colonial past, etc.), some of them still sympathetic to the victims' families but very critical of the government
65% were horrified and emotional, and didn't understand why atrocities like that happened and more or less didn't accept any type of debate about what happened
35% more or less think something wasn't right, that it's a sort of false flag operation which happened, believe ISIS were funded by the US and other countries belonging to the G-20 and that this is a good way to get people to accept and even request securitarian and privacy invading policies (ala Patriot Act) and justify more interventionism in the region
30% lamented the selective indignation of the western world, with the world media going batshit crazy for a few weeks when similar terrorist attacks had taken place (and have taken place since) in countries like Kenya, Nigeria, the Lebanon, etc., with an altogether different reaction, some of them still sympathetic to the victims' families.
20% blamed this on our government, waging unnecessary and illegitimate wars, not doing enough on home soil to contain the terrorist threats (which are real and will happen again, let's face it) and not tackling the real issue at hand, which isn't as much a Religious one as it is an economic and identity crisis : the recession we are facing and the ever growing social issues (unemployment, lack of structure and education, ghettoisation, lack of self esteem and guidance) is what precipitate most of these people in the arms of ISIS.
10% took it out on Muslims in general
a vast majority warned not to mistake ISIS with actual Muslims.
these shares obviously overlap each other.
as for the Muslims I know, I'd say a lot of them were among the 30% who lamented the selective indignation of the western world since obviously they are pro-Palestine, but a non-negligeable share were equally horrified by the attacks. I find despicable though that some of them are somehow forced to condemn the attacks more strongly than non-Muslims, as if they had to answer for the atrocities of a crazy few.
what do I think about all this ?
Well I was horrified, obviously. I know a person who died, I was supposed to be at a theatre 10 minutes away from one of the attacks, and I happen to go quite often in some of the areas targeted. I also know to separate reason from emotions and I tend to think we're paying for our politicians' cowardice, incompetence, and stupidity. But my ideas are not fixed on a lot of subjects and I'm always open to contradicting views and debate, I think we need to face the grave reality and put everything on the table. I regret the fact that some things can't be said. I think that's precisely the use of a debate. creating taboos is what creates uneasiness.
--- End quote ---
It's all irrelevant. The thread is about Islam as a whole. If Islam tells it's followers to do xyz and some of the followers are being disobedient and don't do it, that doesn't mean that islam doesn't teach xyz. It only means that some of the followers aren't following the very religion that they claim to practice. You telling us about peaceful Muslims when the quran tells it's followers to wage war doesn't mean a damn thing.
You guys want to discuss everything but the video. lol That's why I posted it because I knew that it would cause discussion but I also knew that it couldn't be refuted. I love backing people into a corner with facts just to see them squirm. No way to get away from a video that shows from the quran what islam is.
VDHEART either put up or shut up!
bouli77:
--- Quote from: abusive on December 03, 2015, 01:04:04 AM ---
You guys want to discuss everything but the video. lol That's why I posted it because I knew that it would cause discussion but I also knew that it couldn't be refuted. I love backing people into a corner with facts just to see them squirm. No way to get away from a video that shows from the quran what islam is.
VDHEART either put up or shut up!
--- End quote ---
haven't checked your video and I won't anytime soon. I will eventually though. I'm not speaking on Christianity and Islam as religions, I'm not a theologist and I don't have the sufficient knowledge to enter in such a discussion. I simply think religions have been utilized since the beginning of age to justify whatever men wanted to do, be it wars or slavery. It's pretty obvious though that historically atrocities have been committed under the name of both Christianity and Islam. As for the teaching of the sacred texts themselves I wouldn't know about it, but as far as I know, Jesus was a controversial figure in his time, too. But that's not what I came to discuss.
I was just reacting to what I quoted, nothing more nothing less, sorry if your thread got sidetracked but that's not what I was interested in.
abusive:
--- Quote from: bouli77 on December 03, 2015, 09:37:30 AM ---
--- Quote from: abusive on December 03, 2015, 01:04:04 AM ---
You guys want to discuss everything but the video. lol That's why I posted it because I knew that it would cause discussion but I also knew that it couldn't be refuted. I love backing people into a corner with facts just to see them squirm. No way to get away from a video that shows from the quran what islam is.
VDHEART either put up or shut up!
--- End quote ---
haven't checked your video and I won't anytime soon. I will eventually though. I'm not speaking on Christianity and Islam as religions, I'm not a theologist and I don't have the sufficient knowledge to enter in such a discussion. I simply think religions have been utilized since the beginning of age to justify whatever men wanted to do, be it wars or slavery. It's pretty obvious though that historically atrocities have been committed under the name of both Christianity and Islam. As for the teaching of the sacred texts themselves I wouldn't know about it, but as far as I know, Jesus was a controversial figure in his time, too. But that's not what I came to discuss.
I was just reacting to what I quoted, nothing more nothing less, sorry if your thread got sidetracked but that's not what I was interested in.
--- End quote ---
I respect your opinion. Keep an eye on this thread but most importantly, watch the video!
7even:
--- Quote from: bouli77 on December 02, 2015, 04:20:46 PM ---Well I was horrified, obviously. I know a person who died, I was supposed to be at a theatre 10 minutes away from one of the attacks, and I happen to go quite often in some of the areas targeted. I also know to separate reason from emotions and I tend to think we're paying for our politicians' cowardice, incompetence, and stupidity. But my ideas are not fixed on a lot of subjects and I'm always open to contradicting views and debate, I think we need to face the grave reality and put everything on the table. I regret the fact that some things can't be said. I think that's precisely the use of a debate. creating taboos is what creates uneasiness.
--- End quote ---
That's what educated, smart non-leftist realists like me are complaining about since forever. Too many statements that somehow could appear to criticize anything non-white / non-western / non-christian are tabooed in many circles. Which I consider a strong part of the root of the problem and the mess we got ourselves into.
I am not from France, but I have heard that some kids in French schools didn't want to sympathize with Charlie Hebdo and basically got told by their parents that those disrespectful journalists got what they deserved. How old are your schoolkids?
After Charlie Hebdo, many Muslims I know insisted that it's a conspiracy and that the killer were not even Muslim (not in the sense that killing isn't real Islam, but in the sense that those were Mossad or CIA agents or whatever French equivalent you have) and stuff like that.
Just something very non-aggressive like claiming that such attacks might happen again would make them uneasy and opposed to me.
After Bataclan, Muslims I know tried to cover up their awkward uneasiness by making stupid jokes like "I'm gonna come in with a Kalashnikov and kill you guys, or better yet get a belt and blow this place up like they did in Paris".
Now, the Muslims I know are vastly inferior in intellect compared to you or me, and I do not intend to imply that smart muslims would act that way, just saying that people can be stupid in general and that is what simply actually happened (I am not making anything up here.)
They aren't aggressive, though. But it is very blatant that they are deeply uneasy after such attacks and feel offended by anyone mentioning it in a negative light. Why is that? If some white Christian/Atheist German (I am technically an Atheist, but born Roman Catholic) would do some kind of fucked up shit, I wouldn't be offended in the slightest. Like after those NSU murders, people could diss them all they wanted in front of me and I didn't mind, because it is a fact that those niggas were dicks. Yet somehow, if ISIS does some fucked up shit, one has to watch his mouth amoungst regular, non-radical Muslims. Isn't that odd?
And yes, it is true that the smarter people amoungst the ISIS guys are consciously targeting that phenomenon.
The pattern is:
1.) Muslim terrorists do fucked up shit.
2.) Whites in the west get mad about it.
3.) Muslims in the west get mad about those white for getting mad at it.
4.) Whites get mad at those Muslims for being like that.
5.) Muslims get even angrier and join ISIS or at least become more radical.
6.) Civil war tendencies grow.
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