Would Eminem be considered the GOAT if he never released music after Relapse?

[Jay_J]

Eminem's formula was simple to make great albums. To produce songs with Jeff Bass and let dj head do the drum programming and let steve king mix them for most of the album. Then add a few dr. dre productions which are highly going to be hit singles. This formula is approved for his first 4 albums inculiding d12 album.

Eminem never did an album mostly or entirely produced by dr. dre. even if one of his first 3 albums were enitrely produced by dr.dre they wouldnt have been classics as much as they were originally. Just because of that Relapse were going to be a failure. Also year was not 2001, nobody was fucking with west coast gangsta rap beats anymore. Especially when eminem's on it for a full lenght LP. It's not a surprise "beautiful" was the only track shined and took good critics.

[jman91331]

Eminem's formula was simple to make great albums. To produce songs with Jeff Bass and let dj head do the drum programming and let steve king mix them for most of the album. Then add a few dr. dre productions which are highly going to be hit singles. This formula is approved for his first 4 albums inculiding d12 album.

Eminem never did an album mostly or entirely produced by dr. dre. even if one of his first 3 albums were enitrely produced by dr.dre they wouldnt have been classics as much as they were originally. Just because of that Relapse were going to be a failure. Also year was not 2001, nobody was fucking with west coast gangsta rap beats anymore. Especially when eminem's on it for a full lenght LP. It's not a surprise "beautiful" was the only track shined and took good critics.

Curious to know what "west coast gangsta beats" were anywhere on Relapse. Dre came with haunting beats to match the horrocore vibe Em was on. And beautiful is the only song I skip on the album, that shit pales in comparison production-wise to the rest of the album. I think some people on here type because it likes how it feels to their fingers but don't know what they're talking about.

[TraceOneInfinite]

best songs were leaked; "we as americans, bully, love you more" unfortunately.

dr. dre replaced them with "big winnie, rain man and ass like that"

first album that eminem started to work with luis resto (keyboard player, co-producer) and mike strange (mix engineer) instead  jeff bass (producer, keyboard, guitar player), dj head (drum programmer), steve king (guitar player, mix engineer). eminem also started to mix his own music, compose his own kind of drums. so we get totally a different sound which sonds weaker, not produced and mixed enough.i don't even want to talk about dre productions already. evil deeds and one last time was good songs really but dre was kind of losing his way and eminem mixed those and they sounded under their potential. however eminem was on drugs so bad. because of all these encore was a failure.

100% Co-Sign !!

This is odd that we are agreeing so much these days.  It’s like you are a different guy than the one I knew before on here or that I had you mixed up with someone else.

I have a theory why we sound the same in this thread… aren’t we close to the same age of 43?  Were you around for the early Aftermath period before they signed Eminem?  Then an immediate fan of Eminem simply from hearing that he was signed to Dre?  I think this put us on the same timeline and same understanding of the trajectory of his career.

But yes, you are exactly right.  Eminem had the winning album making formula the way the Chicago Bulls had their formula in the 90’s. Eminem had employed that formula successfully on his first 3 Aftermath solos and refined it as well with other releases like the first D-12 album or even projects like 8-Mile, etc.

A big part of the formula was the Bass Brothers, like his Scottie Pippen.  They had a winning music making formula and ever since the letdown of Doggfather—I always expect artists to lose their fire 🔥 after they break through and sell out—yet Eminem continued to turn out quality project after quality project even after experiencing great success.  Because Eminem had the winning song and album making formula that fans like us were used to.

And when that first leak came for Encore it sounded right to us.  “We As Americans” was next level with him maturing into effective political commentary, and it was that vintage Eminem sound and it had the kind of production and sound that he had mastered.  Along with the other cuts like “Canibitch” and “Bully” — it wasn’t as great as the Eminem Show but it was still in line with everything we expected.

Then with the leak things got mixed up and it was the first time he really got thrown off course.  We ended up with an album—that had tracks like “Evil Deeds” and “Puke” that sounded exactly like what we expected but other songs like “Big Weenie” the ones you mentioned, around half the album (which could have been filled properly by the leaked cuts) that made for the first dissapointment of Em’s career.

But anyway, yes, bottom line, fans like you and I look back to the early leak and release of Encore in the way you described

[Sccit]

100% Co-Sign !!

This is odd that we are agreeing so much these days.  It’s like you are a different guy than the one I knew before on here or that I had you mixed up with someone else.

I have a theory why we sound the same in this thread… aren’t we close to the same age of 43?  Were you around for the early Aftermath period before they signed Eminem?  Then an immediate fan of Eminem simply from hearing that he was signed to Dre?  I think this put us on the same timeline and same understanding of the trajectory of his career.

But yes, you are exactly right.  Eminem had the winning album making formula the way the Chicago Bulls had their formula in the 90’s. Eminem had employed that formula successfully on his first 3 Aftermath solos and refined it as well with other releases like the first D-12 album or even projects like 8-Mile, etc.

A big part of the formula was the Bass Brothers, like his Scottie Pippen.  They had a winning music making formula and ever since the letdown of Doggfather—I always expect artists to lose their fire 🔥 after they break through and sell out—yet Eminem continued to turn out quality project after quality project even after experiencing great success.  Because Eminem had the winning song and album making formula that fans like us were used to.

And when that first leak came for Encore it sounded right to us.  “We As Americans” was next level with him maturing into effective political commentary, and it was that vintage Eminem sound and it had the kind of production and sound that he had mastered.  Along with the other cuts like “Canibitch” and “Bully” — it wasn’t as great as the Eminem Show but it was still in line with everything we expected.

Then with the leak things got mixed up and it was the first time he really got thrown off course.  We ended up with an album—that had tracks like “Evil Deeds” and “Puke” that sounded exactly like what we expected but other songs like “Big Weenie” the ones you mentioned, around half the album (which could have been filled properly by the leaked cuts) that made for the first dissapointment of Em’s career.

But anyway, yes, bottom line, fans like you and I look back to the early leak and release of Encore in the way you described

ok u can stop jerkin him off now

he also thinks that snoops missionary album is a brilliant piece of work .. the same missionary u said was absolute garbage

is that also because you're both 43?

 


everybody knows encore was a big step down from eminem show.. that's no secret. but shitting on the production of relapse is a very strange take not shared by many. the issue most people had was the over the top accents. the production was actually considered epic in real time.

[Jay_J]

100% Co-Sign !!

This is odd that we are agreeing so much these days.  It’s like you are a different guy than the one I knew before on here or that I had you mixed up with someone else.

I have a theory why we sound the same in this thread… aren’t we close to the same age of 43?  Were you around for the early Aftermath period before they signed Eminem?  Then an immediate fan of Eminem simply from hearing that he was signed to Dre?  I think this put us on the same timeline and same understanding of the trajectory of his career.

But yes, you are exactly right.  Eminem had the winning album making formula the way the Chicago Bulls had their formula in the 90’s. Eminem had employed that formula successfully on his first 3 Aftermath solos and refined it as well with other releases like the first D-12 album or even projects like 8-Mile, etc.

A big part of the formula was the Bass Brothers, like his Scottie Pippen.  They had a winning music making formula and ever since the letdown of Doggfather—I always expect artists to lose their fire 🔥 after they break through and sell out—yet Eminem continued to turn out quality project after quality project even after experiencing great success.  Because Eminem had the winning song and album making formula that fans like us were used to.

And when that first leak came for Encore it sounded right to us.  “We As Americans” was next level with him maturing into effective political commentary, and it was that vintage Eminem sound and it had the kind of production and sound that he had mastered.  Along with the other cuts like “Canibitch” and “Bully” — it wasn’t as great as the Eminem Show but it was still in line with everything we expected.

Then with the leak things got mixed up and it was the first time he really got thrown off course.  We ended up with an album—that had tracks like “Evil Deeds” and “Puke” that sounded exactly like what we expected but other songs like “Big Weenie” the ones you mentioned, around half the album (which could have been filled properly by the leaked cuts) that made for the first dissapointment of Em’s career.

But anyway, yes, bottom line, fans like you and I look back to the early leak and release of Encore in the way you described

I'm 40 but i started to get into hip hop seriously was 2001. So i wasnt around when eminem released slim shady lp.

If Eminem would save some songs he did for 8 mile, obie and pac album for  himself on encore, it should have been another classic.

[TraceOneInfinite]

ok u can stop jerkin him off now

he also thinks that snoops missionary album is a brilliant piece of work .. the same missionary u said was absolute garbage

is that also because you're both 43?

 


everybody knows encore was a big step down from eminem show.. that's no secret. but shitting on the production of relapse is a very strange take not shared by many. the issue most people had was the over the top accents. the production was actually considered epic in real time.

He accurately identified the Encore leak (I think it was called "Straight from the Lab") as a key event in Eminem's career timeline.  Eminem even spoke directly about his in an interview and said how pissed he was, and how he had to go back in and cut more songs and it was like he didn't give a fucc and ended up with trash like "Big Weenie". 

[Jay_J]

Curious to know what "west coast gangsta beats" were anywhere on Relapse. Dre came with haunting beats to match the horrocore vibe Em was on. And beautiful is the only song I skip on the album, that shit pales in comparison production-wise to the rest of the album. I think some people on here type because it likes how it feels to their fingers but don't know what they're talking about.

My mom kinda reminds whats the difference with horns.

Bagpipes from bagdad is a signature dr.dre beat

Insane also

Old times sake, underground are pure west coast beats

Beautiful is the only song eminem is not doing accent, only music is produced with sample and live instrumentation of guitar and bass, not only rough drums on a midi west coast influential loop that keeps repeating.

[Jay_J]

ok u can stop jerkin him off now

he also thinks that snoops missionary album is a brilliant piece of work .. the same missionary u said was absolute garbage

is that also because you're both 43?

 


everybody knows encore was a big step down from eminem show.. that's no secret. but shitting on the production of relapse is a very strange take not shared by many. the issue most people had was the over the top accents. the production was actually considered epic in real time.

Dont be jealous

[TraceOneInfinite]

I'm 40 but i started to get into hip hop seriously was 2001. So i wasnt around when eminem released slim shady lp.

If Eminem would save some songs he did for 8 mile, obie and pac album for  himself on encore, it should have been another classic.

Encore was on it's way to being solid follow up to the Eminem Show (if the leak never happened).  "6 in the Morning" was leaked and was a far superior track to "1 Shot, 2 Shot' which was wack.  "6 in the Morning" was on the level of the D-12 tracks we heard on MMLP and Eminem Show.  If not for the leak, we could've gotten this very solid and expected Eminem album very close to his usual standard and sound:

OG Encore Album (before the Leak)

Intro
1. Evil Deeds
2. Bully
3. Canibitch
4. Never Enough (feat. 50 Cent & Nate Dogg)
5. Yellow Brick Road
6. Like Toy Soldiers
7. Mosh
8. We As Americuns
9. Puke
10. Spend Some Time feat. Stat Quo
11. Love You More
12. Just Lose It
13. 6 in the Morning (Come on In feat. D-12)
14. Mockingbird
15.  Encore (feat. 50 Cent & Dr. Dre)

That's a fuccin sick ass album and solid follow up to everything that had came before.  It's not classic, and it's not the level of Eminem Show, but I think all his fans that had followed him since he signed with Dre would've been at least satisfied. 

[Jay_J]

Encore was on it's way to being solid follow up to the Eminem Show (if the leak never happened).  "6 in the Morning" was leaked and was a far superior track to "1 Shot, 2 Shot' which was wack.  "6 in the Morning" was on the level of the D-12 tracks we heard on MMLP and Eminem Show.  If not for the leak, we could've gotten this very solid and expected Eminem album very close to his usual standard and sound:

1. We As Americans
2. Bully
3. Canibitch
4. Never Enough (feat. 50 Cent & Nate Dogg)
5. Yellow Brick Road
6. Like Toy Soldiers
7. Mosh
8. Evil Deeds
9. Puke
10. Spend Some Time feat. Stat Quo
11. Love You More - og
12. Just Lose It
13. 6 in the Morning (Come on In feat. D-12)
14. Mockingbird
15.  Encore (feat. 50 Cent & Dr. Dre)

That's a fuccin sick ass album and solid follow up to everything that had came before.  It's not classic, and it's not the level of Eminem Show, but I think all his fans that had followed him since he signed with Dre would've been at least satisfied.

Relapse could have been better with less dre beats and more joints like beautiful, careful what you wish for, my darling, elevator.

[doggfather]

for real guys, u really surprised when a 40, 50 years old artist aint the same as he/she was at 20s 30s?

[Sccit]

Relapse could have been better with less dre beats and more joints like beautiful, careful what you wish for, my darling, elevator.

 

[Sccit]

He accurately identified the Encore leak (I think it was called "Straight from the Lab") as a key event in Eminem's career timeline.  Eminem even spoke directly about his in an interview and said how pissed he was, and how he had to go back in and cut more songs and it was like he didn't give a fucc and ended up with trash like "Big Weenie".

the encore leaks isn't some big secret homie lol


it's the whole "relapse woulda been better with less dre beats!" that's boggling everyone's mind

literally no one has ever said that... every single person who i've ever heard comment on relapse highlights the production as the strong point

the heavy accent overdone character flows threw everyone off initially .. but no one ever complained about the production

[Jay_J]

the encore leaks isn't some big secret homie lol


it's the whole "relapse woulda been better with less dre beats!" that's boggling everyone's mind

literally no one has ever said that... every single person who i've ever heard comment on relapse highlights the production as the strong point

the heavy accent overdone character flows threw everyone off initially .. but no one ever complained about the production

They might be dr. Dre fans. Not eminem fans.

Even as a dre fan i find those beats outdated. I dont say they are not bangin, i dont say they are bad. They were outdated. Also they dont fit eminem. Its not eminem music at all. You cant expect eminem to jump on an album produced by dj premier for exampöe and expect me to say "production was dope!".

As an eminem fan, it is sooooo wrong to make an eminem album fully produced by dre. Not even in 99 or 2001. That has to fail absolutely. Em's signature sound doesnt belong to dr.dre singles.

[TraceOneInfinite]

Relapse could have been better with less dre beats and more joints like beautiful, careful what you wish for, my darling, elevator.

Again, agreed -- because of 2 key reasons.

Lyrics - Eminem's career had always followed a clear arc and narrative.  So Slim Shady EP/LP he was the hungry starving artist "Rock Bottom" and "If I Had" and introducing himself to the world "My Name Is."  Then MMLP he was responding to the haters and the backlash against him, and then Eminem Show he was poking fun at his fame, and also considering leaving it all behind saying he was just a regular guy "Say Goodbye to Hollywood".   Once Eminem did Relapse, he totally lost the narrative and career arc his fans had followed him every step of the way with.

Production - He stopped using the Bass Brothers.  "Beautiful" and the tracks you mentioned were the last time he would ever work with the Bass Brothers, and his overall sound started to change, and went off course.  Really sounds more like Detox Leftover Beats.  Still, the beats weren't the problem though, but I do think leaving the Bass Brothers made it harder for his hard core fans that had been with him since the beginning to still follow him in the same way.