Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Jewish or White? - Ben Shaprio its a religion
Sccit:
--- Quote from: abusive on September 20, 2025, 09:02:52 AM ---Show me in the New Testament.
--- End quote ---
show u what in the new testament
Sccit:
--- Quote from: TraceOneInfinite on September 19, 2025, 11:39:06 PM ---Unfortunately that's one of those big grey areas, and there are so many in the religion. You have a lot of Muslim friends and I'm happy you are defending Islam and trying to present a fair viewpoint of the religion. Because there is the verse of Qur'an that does say "There is no compulsion in religion" and they always market this aspect when appealing to outsiders for sympathy and to appear to be less threatening.
...then you actually get deep into the religion and you meet a lot of assholes that think it's perfectly fine to force someone into the religion and try to back up those claims using Qur'an, Hadith (alleged sayings of the Prophet) and things from the Sunnah/Sahaba (this means life of Muhammad and people who knew him) and even Fatwas from Scholars past and present. They will come up with something and then you spend hours arguing them in the masjid and feel frustrated at the end of the day and thought we were all gonna sing "Kumbaya" by the fire place holding hands--but find out it's not quite the same on the inside as it is in some college reading material that presents Islam to the general public.
--- End quote ---
yea it's weird, because if we go simply by quran, muslims should adhere to israel belonging to the Jews
but it's the re-interpretation of things that makes muslims have such difference of opinions between one another
jews are a little different, because there's generally a universal belief that must be followed by all jews
abusive:
--- Quote from: Sccit on September 19, 2025, 03:06:45 PM ---
wrong
forcing conversion is forbidden according to islam
but both muslims and christians still do it
--- End quote ---
A muslim just told you that it wasn't forbidden and it's taught. You don't know anything about what you're defending or arguing against.
Show me where in the NT it teaches to force conversions to Christianity.
Thanks for keeping this thread alive too. People need to see the videos posted and your lies exposed.
Sccit:
--- Quote from: abusive on September 21, 2025, 06:16:29 PM ---A muslim just told you that it wasn't forbidden and it's taught. You don't know anything about what you're defending or arguing against.
Show me where in the NT it teaches to force conversions to Christianity.
Thanks for keeping this thread alive too. People need to see the videos posted and your lies exposed.
--- End quote ---
and i know muslims who quote verses in the quran that show it's not allowed genius
1. Clear Qur'anic Teaching:
The Qur'an explicitly forbids forcing anyone to accept Islam.
“There is no compulsion in religion.”
(Qur’an, 2:256)
This verse makes it clear that belief must be a personal, voluntary decision.
2. Muhammad’s Practice:
Muhammad never forced anyone to convert to Islam. He preached through wisdom, compassion, and dialogue, not coercion. Even in situations of political power, he respected people's freedom of belief.
3. Islamic Legal Principle:
Classical Islamic scholars agreed that forced conversion is invalid. If someone says they are Muslim under coercion, it doesn’t count as true belief.
4. Respect for “People of the Book”:
In Islamic history, Jews and Christians (known as “Ahl al-Kitab” or People of the Book) were allowed to practice their religion under Muslim rule. They were not forced to convert.
Surah Yunus (10:99)
“Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. So, will you then compel people to become believers?”
Even the Prophet (ﷺ) was reminded that he cannot force people to believe.
🔹 Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ)
The Prophet never forced people to convert. Here’s one example:
🔸 Narrated by Ibn Abbas (Bukhari 6924):
When a woman from the Jews accepted Islam and her children remained Jewish, the Prophet did not force the children to convert.
This shows he respected the existing faith of individuals, even within families.
🔹 Islamic Legal (Fiqh) Position
Classical jurists across all four Sunni schools (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi‘i, Hanbali) agree:
Forced conversions are invalid.
Islamic law requires sincerity of intention (niyyah) for a conversion to be accepted.
Imam Al-Nawawi (Shafi‘i scholar):
“If someone is forced to say the Shahada, it is not considered a valid conversion unless the heart accepts it.”
🔹 Historical Practice Under Muslim Rule
In Islamic history:
Jews, Christians, and others lived under Muslim governments for centuries.
They paid a special tax (jizya) in return for protection and autonomy — not as a penalty for not being Muslim.
🔹 Scholarly Consensus
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah:
“No one should be forced to enter Islam. Rather, it is only permissible to invite them to Islam and explain it.”
Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi:
“Freedom of religion is one of the fundamental human rights in Islam. Forced conversion contradicts the essence of Islamic belief.”
that doesn't mean people don't break the rules and still do it.. same with christianity
abusive:
--- Quote from: Sccit on September 21, 2025, 08:30:10 PM ---and i know muslims who quote verses in the quran that show it's not allowed genius
1. Clear Qur'anic Teaching:
The Qur'an explicitly forbids forcing anyone to accept Islam.
“There is no compulsion in religion.”
(Qur’an, 2:256)
This verse makes it clear that belief must be a personal, voluntary decision.
2. Muhammad’s Practice:
Muhammad never forced anyone to convert to Islam. He preached through wisdom, compassion, and dialogue, not coercion. Even in situations of political power, he respected people's freedom of belief.
3. Islamic Legal Principle:
Classical Islamic scholars agreed that forced conversion is invalid. If someone says they are Muslim under coercion, it doesn’t count as true belief.
4. Respect for “People of the Book”:
In Islamic history, Jews and Christians (known as “Ahl al-Kitab” or People of the Book) were allowed to practice their religion under Muslim rule. They were not forced to convert.
Surah Yunus (10:99)
“Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. So, will you then compel people to become believers?”
Even the Prophet (ﷺ) was reminded that he cannot force people to believe.
🔹 Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ)
The Prophet never forced people to convert. Here’s one example:
🔸 Narrated by Ibn Abbas (Bukhari 6924):
When a woman from the Jews accepted Islam and her children remained Jewish, the Prophet did not force the children to convert.
This shows he respected the existing faith of individuals, even within families.
🔹 Islamic Legal (Fiqh) Position
Classical jurists across all four Sunni schools (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi‘i, Hanbali) agree:
Forced conversions are invalid.
Islamic law requires sincerity of intention (niyyah) for a conversion to be accepted.
Imam Al-Nawawi (Shafi‘i scholar):
“If someone is forced to say the Shahada, it is not considered a valid conversion unless the heart accepts it.”
🔹 Historical Practice Under Muslim Rule
In Islamic history:
Jews, Christians, and others lived under Muslim governments for centuries.
They paid a special tax (jizya) in return for protection and autonomy — not as a penalty for not being Muslim.
🔹 Scholarly Consensus
Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah:
“No one should be forced to enter Islam. Rather, it is only permissible to invite them to Islam and explain it.”
Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi:
“Freedom of religion is one of the fundamental human rights in Islam. Forced conversion contradicts the essence of Islamic belief.”
that doesn't mean people don't break the rules and still do it.. same with christianity
--- End quote ---
https://quran.com/at-tawbah/5
I'm still waiting for you to do the same with the NT.
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