NAS ARGUMENT CHALLENGED.

[Drudge]

Look, I don't know if I agree with Nas's coon picnic argument. In-fact, the charge laid at the feet of KOBE,TAYE DIGGS, and CUBA is bogus. The common thread is that they have white wives and/or messed around with white women. The names he listed as men we should look up too Jim Brown, Stokley Carmichael, and others all messed with white women. As far as I'm concerned if I made it out poverty through hard work and perseverance I don't owe nobody shit. The story below tells how one author supports Nas the other one doesn't.





"While “Ants at Nas’ Coon Picnic” raises some thoughtful and persuasive critiques of the rapper’s diatribe against “sellouts” in media and entertainment, the author’s fundamental premise is flawed, his opinion misinformed, and his tone quite elitist.

Morris O’Kelly deserves kudos for pointing out the factual errors in “These Are Our Heroes.” Nas, by saying on wax “whatever happened to Weezy/the Red Foxxes?/never won Emmys but were real to me,” misinformed many unaware listeners, who might use him as a reference in an argument or conversation and get embarrassed when their audience points out they’re wrong.

Mr. O’Kelly deserves even more kudos for pointing out that Nas’ praise of Weezy, Red Foxx, and, presumably, their contemporaries are definitely problematic. In the minds of a great deal of people, these actors were the “coons” of their era. The rapper’s unqualified remark ignores the fact that Red Foxx and Isabel Sanford arguably reinforced pernicious stereotypes about blacks in their respective roles. The lyrics also ignore the fact that the black community was sorely ambivalent about the TV portrayals Foxx, Sanford, and others provided for mainstream consumption. Perhaps the strongest point in Mr. O’Kelly’s critique is his assertion that Nas’ clearly calling out non-rappers for buffoonery, but only dissin’ other artists subliminally on the track is somewhat hypocritical and opportunistic. It’s kind of unfair to mention the WB and UPN in a discussion about “cooning,” when Lil Kim is runnin’ around with blue contacts, blonde weave, fake breasts, and is a ‘hood poster-girl for Old Navy.

Despite these worthwhile merits, the author’s primary argument- (in his own words) “our castigation of fellow African-Americans for supposedly not being ‘Black enough’ [is] usually misguided…if not all-out wrong…[Nas] is a case in point”- is fallacious. The MC’s observation that Tiger Woods, Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, Jr., and Kobe Bryant are sellouts is correct!

Mr. O’Kelly weakly tries to dispute this observation by highlighting what he thinks is a contradiction in Nas’ logic.

The author wrongly assumes that the rapper’s beef with Tiger, Taye, and Cuba is solely that they have white wives. He says sarcastically, “I get the joke. The common thread here is that all three have White wives.” He then tells readers that the real heroes Nas suggests we emulate (eg. Jim Brown, Stokely Carmichael) had relationships with white women too, thus the rapper’s reference to Tiger and ‘em as sellouts is bogus, or inaccurate at least. So happy that (he thinks) he has sonned Nas, Mr. O’Kelly asks an irrelevant rhetorical question: “[since Richard Pryor married a few white women], was [he] ‘less real’ to you, Nasir, than Red Foxx?” He even says arrogantly in a following line, “I’m beginning to think you’re not even sure what point you’re trying to make.”

The problem is Nas’ admiration of Jim Brown, Stokely Carmichael, et al, who also had penchants for white women, is easily reconciled with his disgust with the three jiggaboos in question. The theme of “These Are Our Heroes,” as the title so obviously implies, is that “our heroes,” the few blacks that have achieved fortune and fame in the mainstream, are not saying or doing enough for the advancement of black people, especially those of us that reside in the ghetto. Why the pompous author missed the whole point of the song and believed that Nas dissed Tiger, Taye, and Cuba just because they had white partners, I can only speculate. Not everyone is preoccupied wit’ white folks."

In contrast, Tiger Woods will not even publicly acknowledge he is black, never mind say anything about anything or do anything substantial for the rest of us. (Can you pronounce Cablanasian?) What else has Taye Diggs done concertedly for blacks besides pave the way for other, similar-pigmented actors to participate in scripted interracial relationships on screen? Cuba Gooding, Jr. embarrassed us all by literally doing a back flip for winning an Oscar, for best supporting actor of all honors, for a grossly offensive role in Jerry Maguire. (Show me the money!) Media outlets everywhere captured his unbridled hysteria with snide humor long after the end of the ceremony. His shall indefinitely remain the most undignified, dare I say, stereotypically slavish award acceptance.

"Tiger Woods will not even publicly acknowledge he is black"

  Agreed



compliments of allhiphop.com

[Shallow]

I really don't want to get into all this again, but since it's not about interracial couples and more about selling out I restate all my old points.


Tiger Woods is what he is, half black, half Thai. He's not from the ghetto and has no ties to it. He doesn't owe a goddman thing to anyone in it. If he wants to give back then that's great, but if he doesn't than we have no right to insult him. Why should Tiger publicly call himself black or African when half of his entire family tree is Thai. Are the Thai making a big fuss about him not giving back to them. Let me assure you the poor Thai kid in Thailand lives a lot worse than the poor black in America. So what if high profile jobs aren't available, or if College is difficult to get into or pay for, or if a taxi doesn't stop? You think some kid in Thailand who's 4 and 5 years old being pimped out to a pedophile by the child sex industry that plagues that and other countries in the area gives a shit about not being able to get a cab? They'd trade places with any ghetto kid from Queensbridge in a second.

So what if Cuba Gooding Jr celebrated for winning an Oscar? Because he was happy he won the award, something white people do all the time, he's some sort of house nigger? Fuck these afrocentric losers who look at everything as racist. White people never play demeaning roles? Larry Bird didn't exactly come from a silver spoon, I never heard him brigning up the problems of middle America or giving loads back to all those out of work labourers. Was he supposed to?

Nas has no merit and neither does this writer.

[smartass]

im gonna tell you straight up, nas is an idiot. he has no room to call anyone else a coon when he was going to stage a fake lynching. not to mention making fun of another black mans facial features. this is the same guy who told a bunch of people to rob another black man because his "voice was annoying and he didnt play hs records" it makes me sick to know that people look up to this clown. i remember when this cat used to be intelligent, but that was like 11 years ago. its amazing what fame can do to someone.

[7even]

its amazing what fame can do to someone.

...and coke.

lol
this dude musta be sniffin' a LOT in his life..

first I thought this topic was about how nas is retarded when it comes to having arguments.. LOL..

my 2 cent about this black thing is that black people should stop making them look like victims who need to stick together against the though oppression of racist whites or some shit... neither are they changing anything for the better with placing themselves in this role, nor are they fooling anyone.

[Juronimo]

I already stated my opinions on Coon Picnic on another thread. Like I stated earlier, Nas's beefs with those people he mentioned has nothing to do with them having white wives, it's the way they behave, they way they carry themselves. The issues that Nas speaks upon are issues that have been talked about and have been geniune issues in the black community for decades. It's easy for one to criticize when one is not familiar with the dynamics he's discussing. The best they can do is to dissect a factual error or a contradiction or two, instead of discussing the real issues, since those that are the most vocal in criticizing Nas, especially on this board have little to no knowledge on issues affecting the black community.

[Drudge]

Tiger Woods is what he is, half black, half Thai. He's not from the ghetto and has no ties to it. He doesn't owe a goddman thing to anyone in it. If he wants to give back then that's great, but if he doesn't than we have no right to insult him. Why should Tiger publicly call himself black or African when half of his entire family tree is Thai. Are the Thai making a big fuss about him not giving back to them. Let me assure you the poor Thai kid in Thailand lives a lot worse than the poor black in America. So what if high profile jobs aren't available, or if College is difficult to get into or pay for, or if a taxi doesn't stop? You think some kid in Thailand who's 4 and 5 years old being pimped out to a pedophile by the child sex industry that plagues that and other countries in the area gives a shit about not being able to get a cab? They'd trade places with any ghetto kid from Queensbridge in a second.

  Couldn't have said it better.

[Shallow]

I already stated my opinions on Coon Picnic on another thread. Like I stated earlier, Nas's beefs with those people he mentioned has nothing to do with them having white wives, it's the way they behave, they way they carry themselves. The issues that Nas speaks upon are issues that have been talked about and have been geniune issues in the black community for decades. It's easy for one to criticize when one is not familiar with the dynamics he's discussing. The best they can do is to dissect a factual error or a contradiction or two, instead of discussing the real issues, since those that are the most vocal in criticizing Nas, especially on this board have little to no knowledge on issues affecting the black community.

So do you feel like your race is being hurt by Cuba Gooding celebrating an Oscar win, or that Tiger Woods acts a certain way? Do you think it's right to put these guys down for not being Jim Brown? That's my only issue here. Someone putting down someone else's integrity. It's different when Em does it in his jokes, because no one is confusing him for being smart. This has nothing to do with black people for me. It's all about reason, logic, and morality. If it were Timberlake tearing down his fellow whites in ingnorant ways I'd take the same stand.

You can hide behind your "I'm black, your not. I understand, you can't"  persona all you want, but the fact remains that an ignorant hate filled human being is insulting people for no reason. What would you like Tiger to do? Jim Brown said all this shit in the media, did that change the state of blacks in the Ghettos? Was there less crime and poverty. Nas is complaining for nothing. Like those people that complain about Mel Gibson not giving away all the money he made from Passion. Mel could give away all the 300 million and make no significant difference in the world. It's his money and his mind and what he wants to do is up to him. He isn't hurting anyone by being rich so I let it go. Tiger isn't hurting anyone by being Tiger, so I let him go. (Tiger still gives more back to black kids than Nas does).

[BacktoWacko]

hey peeps I dont understand how ya'll react on nas.... wats up  I thought em said some shit about black women... too ( OK HE said sorry but whats said is whats said) or am I just trippin....

Dont call me a racist.. Cuz me Role with whiteboys and white chicks too... and nobody of them is saying shit of nass... same as me not saying shit about em.. infact I listen to em and they listen to nas too...


NAS - Street Disciple is DOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by the way...

[Juronimo]

I already stated my opinions on Coon Picnic on another thread. Like I stated earlier, Nas's beefs with those people he mentioned has nothing to do with them having white wives, it's the way they behave, they way they carry themselves. The issues that Nas speaks upon are issues that have been talked about and have been geniune issues in the black community for decades. It's easy for one to criticize when one is not familiar with the dynamics he's discussing. The best they can do is to dissect a factual error or a contradiction or two, instead of discussing the real issues, since those that are the most vocal in criticizing Nas, especially on this board have little to no knowledge on issues affecting the black community.

So do you feel like your race is being hurt by Cuba Gooding celebrating an Oscar win, or that Tiger Woods acts a certain way? Do you think it's right to put these guys down for not being Jim Brown? That's my only issue here. Someone putting down someone else's integrity. It's different when Em does it in his jokes, because no one is confusing him for being smart. This has nothing to do with black people for me. It's all about reason, logic, and morality. If it were Timberlake tearing down his fellow whites in ingnorant ways I'd take the same stand.

You can hide behind your "I'm black, your not. I understand, you can't"  persona all you want, but the fact remains that an ignorant hate filled human being is insulting people for no reason. What would you like Tiger to do? Jim Brown said all this shit in the media, did that change the state of blacks in the Ghettos? Was there less crime and poverty. Nas is complaining for nothing. Like those people that complain about Mel Gibson not giving away all the money he made from Passion. Mel could give away all the 300 million and make no significant difference in the world. It's his money and his mind and what he wants to do is up to him. He isn't hurting anyone by being rich so I let it go. Tiger isn't hurting anyone by being Tiger, so I let him go. (Tiger still gives more back to black kids than Nas does).

I already said my piece in the other thread. I'm not discussing the issue anymore. I feel where Nas is coming from. That's it.

[NobodyButMe]

^^ this may be the first time i've ever disagreed with you on any thread...but nas can eat a dick on this one.

he's actin like he's some sort of savior. fuck that shit. he's got dirty laundry too. fuck him. clean up your own back yard before you start bitchin about people you don't even know. nas gets in these little moods where he thinks he's the only one in the world that understands how people should act...fuck him and his stupid track. what if everyone in the world acted like nas told them to act. we'd have one fucked up, selfish and divided world.  nas doesn't know shit about those fuckin guys and doesn't know shit about 99.99999% of the people that are hearing that record and he's out there tellin people how to act? i tell you what, if anyone comes to me thinking they know me and is tryin to tell me how to act, they can eat a dick.

even if he's 'right' as far as the issues are concerned, tell me what kind of right this fuckin guy has to tell someone how to live. he doesn't know a goddam thing about tiger or cuba or kobe and the way their experiences shaped them - how the fuck are you going to tell someone how to act? for real, nas can eat a dick on this one.

[M Dogg™]

God not this again.

Be a minority, feel what it's like, then come back at this. You can't possibly do that, so you can't feel what Nas is saying. I love the song, I love the CD, and I'm one that has dated white women and went to an all white college. In fact, that even makes me feel it more. You guys may not like it, but it's a point of view that exist, and rappers like Public Enemy (Flava Flav should have been in that song too, wtf is he doing?) 2Pac, Ice Cube and many other hip-hop legends spoke on for many years. It's political conscience rap, something Nas does, and everyother rapper like him has songs like it, so don't trip. Why not put all the other songs on blast, why not put hip-hop on blast, why not talk about Ice Cube for doing White Cave Bitch, Public Enemy for calling white people devils and slave owners, and every other political/conscience rapper, and these are the guys people call positive rappers.

When will this conversation end?

[Shallow]

God not this again.

Be a minority, feel what it's like, then come back at this. You can't possibly do that, so you can't feel what Nas is saying. I love the song, I love the CD, and I'm one that has dated white women and went to an all white college. In fact, that even makes me feel it more. You guys may not like it, but it's a point of view that exist, and rappers like Public Enemy (Flava Flav should have been in that song too, wtf is he doing?) 2Pac, Ice Cube and many other hip-hop legends spoke on for many years. It's political conscience rap, something Nas does, and everyother rapper like him has songs like it, so don't trip. Why not put all the other songs on blast, why not put hip-hop on blast, why not talk about Ice Cube for doing White Cave Bitch, Public Enemy for calling white people devils and slave owners, and every other political/conscience rapper, and these are the guys people call positive rappers.

When will this conversation end?

If this were '91 I would be blasting Cube. If this were '95 I would be blasting Pac. If this were '99 I would be blasting Dead Prez. This is 2004 (now 2005) and Nas is the one saying. Besides I didn't start the thread, I just responded. I grew up as a white guy in a black area. Does that count as a minority? Even if it doesn't, I've visited Turkey as a Greek, that is certainly a minority. I know what it feels like to be put down for being of a different race. However that has no merit in this conversation. It's not Nas's racism as much as it is his insulting and name calling that bothers. It's his judging. He feels he's so spiritually enlightened but he doesn't show it. Tupac claimed to be a thug, and Chuck D claimed to be a pro black advocate. Nas claims to be Jesus. If Nas said "I feel all black guys should act like me", I'd chuckle but I won't post paragraphs on it.

[M Dogg™]

God not this again.

Be a minority, feel what it's like, then come back at this. You can't possibly do that, so you can't feel what Nas is saying. I love the song, I love the CD, and I'm one that has dated white women and went to an all white college. In fact, that even makes me feel it more. You guys may not like it, but it's a point of view that exist, and rappers like Public Enemy (Flava Flav should have been in that song too, wtf is he doing?) 2Pac, Ice Cube and many other hip-hop legends spoke on for many years. It's political conscience rap, something Nas does, and everyother rapper like him has songs like it, so don't trip. Why not put all the other songs on blast, why not put hip-hop on blast, why not talk about Ice Cube for doing White Cave Bitch, Public Enemy for calling white people devils and slave owners, and every other political/conscience rapper, and these are the guys people call positive rappers.

When will this conversation end?

If this were '91 I would be blasting Cube. If this were '95 I would be blasting Pac. If this were '99 I would be blasting Dead Prez. This is 2004 (now 2005) and Nas is the one saying. Besides I didn't start the thread, I just responded. I grew up as a white guy in a black area. Does that count as a minority? Even if it doesn't, I've visited Turkey as a Greek, that is certainly a minority. I know what it feels like to be put down for being of a different race. However that has no merit in this conversation. It's not Nas's racism as much as it is his insulting and name calling that bothers. It's his judging. He feels he's so spiritually enlightened but he doesn't show it. Tupac claimed to be a thug, and Chuck D claimed to be a pro black advocate. Nas claims to be Jesus. If Nas said "I feel all black guys should act like me", I'd chuckle but I won't post paragraphs on it.

and in 1988 you'd be blasting Chuck D... lol. Dude, slow your role. It's hip-hop, it's from a black point of view. There is suppose to be a Latino point of view in it, but we are silent. (Puerto Ricans were very key in the start of hip-hop) Anyway, you have your view, cool, but honestly, this is the United States, this is one of many many countries built off slaves back on stolen land. And it just so happens that no matter what, this country views certain people different, and Nas is responding to it the way he feels. Trust me, I've been there. Nas was very nice, he mainly focused on Kobe for being a false black hero, and then talked about rappers afterwards. The shot outs at the end were the only reference to the other people. I mean, a whole verse to Kobe. I'm a Laker fan, I have a Kobe jersey, but I can honestly say, if Shaq, Karl Malone, Nas (who did a song with Kobe called Thug Poet), Phil Jackson and other people are talking about this kid, isn't it time he check himself. You are getting heating for a Kobe dedication. LOL.

I actually want you to talk about everyone else. Talk about 1991-1993 Ice Cube (White Cave Bitch), 1988-now Public Enemy (everything), 1991 - 1994 2Pac (the Quicy Jones article and such), 1999-now Dead Prez (everything), 2001-2005 Nas (from calling the Twin Towers Karma to this latest song). Just get all your anger out for these people, get it all out and make yourself heard. 'Cause dammit, I'm tired of reading it all in seperate post. I want it all out in one post so I can read it all at once. Hell I wouldn't respond, I just want to hear you out.

[Shallow]

1) Didn't the introspective Folk movement of Bob Dylan have anything to do with influencing hip hop? How about hardrock? I swear I've heard Hendrix and Page solos that resemble scratching.

2) You won't ever read me getting my anger out because I don't have any. I don't "care" that Nas is doing this. I just know hypocrisy and contradiction when I see it, and I point it out. You may read my words and assume I have an angry tone, but if you were to hear me you'd know I'm not angry at all. I probabably shouldn't have used the word blast when I mentioned I'd respond to Chuck D etc. I don't blame you for assuming I have an angry tone. I can see why'd you'd think that.

3) If you feel that America is filled with false black role models that's fine. I feel it's filled with false white role models as well, (If by false you mean untrue). What makes Bill Cosby any different than Ward Cleaver? What makes Michael Jackson any different than Elvis? What makes Denzel any different than Mel Gibson (before his 600 million dollar pay day)? What makes Jay Z any different than Eminem? What makes Nas any different than Springsteen? All of these people came from lesser backgrounds and acheived unattainable status for 90%+ of the population. Many of them came from bad backgrounds that are still bad despite their fame. When Michael Jordan became a multi millionaire, Jim Brown called him a house nigger. A poster boy for blacks to look at and say "wow we can do that", but the ghettos weren't getting any better with his rise, so he was fake according to Brown. Did abandoned steel towns get revived when Larry Bird made his millions and was put on a pedestal? Did trailer parks diminish when Eminem became super rich? I don't see how black heroes are any less real than white ones.

4) Now this is an angry response (the others were not, and te angeris not aimed at you); I ABOSOLUTELY HATE KOBE. I NEVER LIKED HIM AND ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS OVERRATED. THE SHIT HE SAID ABOUT SHAQ AND ACCUSING HIM OF HAVING AFFAIRS WAS APPAULING, YET EXPECTED. My loyalty is not to Kobe, however I wouldn't call him less of a black man. Just a pathetic human being wth no guidance or judgement.

[M Dogg™]

1) Didn't the introspective Folk movement of Bob Dylan have anything to do with influencing hip hop? How about hardrock? I swear I've heard Hendrix and Page solos that resemble scratching.

I understand the rest of your post... but on this one... huh? 

Hip-Hop is not so much based off scratching as it is looping. Basically in parties in New York, they'd play the popular records, but most were slow, and so they'd take the part that was fast, and loop it so you can dance to the beat. Over time, emcees would rhyme over the looped part. Everything feel into place from there. At least that's my understanding from people from NY that are huge Hip-Hop heads. I've read stuff like that too, but I was not there in the 70's, maybe you are right.